Moderator Joshpantera Posted November 15, 2019 Moderator Share Posted November 15, 2019 What evidence could he offer? That a LOVING god has conjured up her sex slavery and abuse as part of his over all divine plan of absolute GOODNESS? And the evidence for that LOVE and GOODNESS is, her slavery in the sex trade. Ta Da!!! God is great! Evidence substantiated, point proven! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justus Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 2 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said: Actually you are both wrong. The verse says both that no sign would be given and that the sign of Jonas would be given. Widely belived by Christians to be a for telling of his death and resurrection. If you think that's convincing might I point you to some contemporary religious folks who also have signs and declare themselves messangers of god? It doesn't say that no sign would be given to anyone, but rather it is written that no sign except the sign of the prophet Jonas would be given to a wicked and adulterous generation. A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed. Matt 16:4 (The convincing part I was referring unto wasn't referring unto the sign of Jonas but rather something else regarding the treatment of the scriptures by some.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted November 15, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted November 15, 2019 2 hours ago, Justus said: A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. Matthew 16:4 New International Version (NIV) 4 A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.” Jesus then left them and went away. So do tell, what is the sign of Jonah (not Jonas) and how is that relevant today? Okay, I'll tell you. You must believe on faith that Jonah was actually in the great fish for three days and then Jesus was actually in the tomb for three days. That is still not evidence, it is using one story to relate to another story. IOW, there shall be no evidence. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 3 hours ago, florduh said: Matthew 16:4 New International Version (NIV) 4 A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.” Jesus then left them and went away. So do tell, what is the sign of Jonah (not Jonas) and how is that relevant today? Okay, I'll tell you. You must believe on faith that Jonah was actually in the great fish for three days and then Jesus was actually in the tomb for three days. That is still not evidence, it is using one story to relate to another story. IOW, there shall be no evidence. How about sticking to the script.....that I am searching for evidence types so that we might potentially communicate. There ARE other types of evidence defined in our great world.... So far, it's pick something physical or we aren't interested.....right before the default, we don't believe the shit anyhow....lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Is group imagination evidence? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 14 minutes ago, midniterider said: Is group imagination evidence? Not to me, it ain't. Edgarcito, the failure to communicate seems to be on your end of the line. We keep saying "physical evidence" and you keep insisting that there's something else that we might accept in its place. No. As I said, not negotiable. Is that communication clear enough, or do I have to increase the font size? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 13 minutes ago, Astreja said: Not to me, it ain't. Edgarcito, the failure to communicate seems to be on your end of the line. We keep saying "physical evidence" and you keep insisting that there's something else that we might accept in its place. No. As I said, not negotiable. Is that communication clear enough, or do I have to increase the font size? All I am saying is from a quick wiki search is there are up to 15 types of defined evidence that I saw.... From the other thread a few weeks ago, people are bitching that Christians are almost impossible to reason with... while we/I note two things!!! ....namely, it's by faith and two, ignoring 14 OTHER forms of evidence that could be potentially discussed!?!! Hell, even modern day juries don't rely on physical evidence alone.....granted it helps, but crikey mates... (I will note on my piece of paper...... Astreja.....physical alone....end of conversation.) Head desk x infinity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted November 15, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted November 15, 2019 31 minutes ago, Edgarcito said: All I am saying is from a quick wiki search is there are up to 15 types of defined evidence that I saw.... From the other thread a few weeks ago, people are bitching that Christians are almost impossible to reason with... while we/I note two things!!! ....namely, it's by faith and two, ignoring 14 OTHER forms of evidence that could be potentially discussed!?!! Hell, even modern day juries don't rely on physical evidence alone.....granted it helps, but crikey mates... (I will note on my piece of paper...... Astreja.....physical alone....end of conversation.) Head desk x infinity... You know what we mean by evidence. You also know what is NOT evidence. You would benefit from stopping these silly semantic games and learn some better apologetics. So here is yet another opportunity for you: please present just one piece of actual evidence. Hint: Revealed "wisdom," anecdotal experiences, hallucinations, Bible verses, feelings, assertions and quotes from Christian authors are NOT evidence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 minute ago, florduh said: You know what we mean by evidence. You also know what is NOT evidence. You would benefit from stopping these silly semantic games and learn some better apologetics. So here is yet another opportunity for you: please present just one piece of actual evidence. Hint: Revealed "wisdom," anecdotal experiences, hallucinations, Bible verses, feelings, assertions and quotes from Christian authors are NOT evidence. Actually some of those are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted November 15, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted November 15, 2019 30 minutes ago, florduh said: Revealed "wisdom," anecdotal experiences, hallucinations, Bible verses, feelings, assertions and quotes from Christian authors are NOT evidence. 28 minutes ago, Edgarcito said: Actually some of those are... No, those are different methods of convincing people of something. They are not evidence. You are being dishonest, now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Edgarcito said: All I am saying is from a quick wiki search is there are up to 15 types of defined evidence that I saw.... From the other thread a few weeks ago, people are bitching that Christians are almost impossible to reason with... while we/I note two things!!! ....namely, it's by faith and two, ignoring 14 OTHER forms of evidence that could be potentially discussed!?!! Hell, even modern day juries don't rely on physical evidence alone.....granted it helps, but crikey mates... (I will note on my piece of paper...... Astreja.....physical alone....end of conversation.) Head desk x infinity... Please cite these 15 types of defined evidence and links to where you found them, Edgarcito. You'll note that when I'm discussing cosmology with Joshpantera and Disillusioned I always cite my sources, so that they can verify these things for themselves. Therefore, I'm not asking you to do do anything I wouldn't do or anything I haven't done. The same standard for both of us. Fair enough? The 15 citations and links, please. Thank you. Walter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Posted Tuesday at 12:38 AM Per our recent conversations.....the question in my mind is what types of evidence will a non-believer accept? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edgarcito, The question you began this thread with concerns what types of evidence a non-believer will accept. What you consider to be acceptable evidence plays no part in answering your question. What Christians generally consider to be acceptable evidence plays no part in answering your question, either. Only what non-believers will accept. So, unless you wish to change the wording of your own question, please confine yourself to ONLY what non-believers will accept. Thank you. Walter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 31 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: No, those are different methods of convincing people of something. They are not evidence. You are being dishonest, now. No I'm not...Bible verses could be from letters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 15 minutes ago, WalterP said: Posted Tuesday at 12:38 AM Per our recent conversations.....the question in my mind is what types of evidence will a non-believer accept? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edgarcito, The question you began this thread with concerns what types of evidence a non-believer will accept. What you consider to be acceptable evidence plays no part in answering your question. What Christians generally consider to be acceptable evidence plays no part in answering your question, either. Only what non-believers will accept. So, unless you wish to change the wording of your own question, please confine yourself to ONLY what non-believers will accept. Thank you. Walter. I understand your point, thank you. I was asking myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted November 15, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted November 15, 2019 10 minutes ago, Edgarcito said: Bible verses could be from letters Conjecture and hearsay, not even acceptable in a court of law, let alone in the arena of cosmic creation (or in the life of a ten-year-old sex slave, for that matter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 31 minutes ago, WalterP said: Please cite these 15 types of defined evidence and links to where you found them, Edgarcito. You'll note that when I'm discussing cosmology with Joshpantera and Disillusioned I always cite my sources, so that they can verify these things for themselves. Therefore, I'm not asking you to do do anything I wouldn't do or anything I haven't done. The same standard for both of us. Fair enough? The 15 citations and links, please. Thank you. Walter. https://i-sight.com/resources/15-types-of-evidence-and-how-to-use-them-in-investigation/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 minute ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: Conjecture and hearsay, not even acceptable in a court of law, let alone in the arena of cosmic creation (or in the life of a ten-year-old sex slave, for that matter). Well, seems like judges like it when stuff is written down regardless.....see divorce court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted November 15, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted November 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, Edgarcito said: https://i-sight.com/resources/15-types-of-evidence-and-how-to-use-them-in-investigation/ Having trouble with H.R. Ed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted November 15, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Edgarcito said: Well, seems like judges like it when stuff is written down regardless.....see divorce court. Irrelevant if what is written down is conjecture and hearsay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 6 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: Having trouble with H.R. Ed? No, first thing the pops up when searching types of evidence...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: Irrelevant if what is written down is conjecture and hearsay. The judges I've dealt with seem to think it relevant....js. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted November 15, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted November 15, 2019 24 minutes ago, Edgarcito said: The judges I've dealt with seem to think it relevant....js. This is a good example of anecdotal "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Evidence is a broad concept. That being said, the quality, relevance, credibility and probative value (among other descriptors) of any evidence, as well as the cumulative quantity of consistent evidence, are what counts when evaluating evidence. Poster Edgarcito has a fair amount of research and studying to do if he wants to understand the concept, methodology and application of evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted November 16, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted November 16, 2019 Good Evidence: I hear thunder, see lightning and feel the raindrops so I will conclude my patio table is wet because it's raining. Bad Evidence: There's a puddle of water near my glass on the patio table. It must be raining. No Evidence: God maketh the rain at His pleasure and His ways are not for us to understand. He wants the table to be wet. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted November 16, 2019 Moderator Share Posted November 16, 2019 @Edgarcito Sdelsolray gave a very good synopsis of what we are looking for either in this thread or another a few days ago. I'll try and find it. But basically something that directly evidences God and is verifiable. An no, nothing you've mentioned so far comes close to that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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