I Realised Something

[SeaJay]

Thanks both for the replies, they are helpful 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

44 minutes ago, mwc said:

The only time I saw things wasn't related to religion.  It was something else altogether, and long story short, it ultimately was related to sleep issues and sleep deprivation

 

I really thought you were going to reminis about some youthful drug experimentation in the past lmao!!!

[Myrkhoos]

2 hours ago, SeaJay said:

It doesn’t help that I think Heaven is communicating with me by way of coincidences and sometimes even seeing things. It’s been this way since November 2010 when it all started. 
 

For example, I practice mindfulness meditation (eyes open) and yesterday whilst doing so, a word flashed before my eyes, and it was ‘Methodist’. Absolutely no reason I would conjure up that church. Later during the same meditation session, I saw the name ‘Paul’ as in St Paul. Though, my current secular reading is dealing with the apostle Paul so that could explain that. As well as realising ‘Paul’ probably comes from my current reading, there were other little tell-tale signs that it all originated from my mind - but I won’t bother you with the details. Suffice to say I was only slightly appeased it came from my mind. 
 

You do realise meditation teachers from most tradition say TO IGNORE thoughts that arise, right? :)) They are just that, thoughts arising in the mind. When I meditate all sorts of things arise.

2 hours ago, SeaJay said:

Then, just before dropping off to sleep and just before waking up, I sometimes see images in my mind’s eye. Then I am worrying that I will see something in real life that equates to my ‘vision’ (because if I am being shown the future, then obviously it is coming from Heaven - because what are the chances, right?). I’ve had this off and on for over 10 years and the number of times I believe these communications have “come true”, so to speak, I think I can count on one hand. And even then there’s differences between what I saw in my head and what I saw in waking life - but still, it’s scary. 

Between waking and sleep and between falling asleep and being asleep our brains are in this internediate, trance lucid dream state where very intense imagery can appear while still conscious. It is a state widely accesed in hypnosis.

2 hours ago, SeaJay said:

 

 

 

I think if I could get over this notion I am being communicated with, deconversion would be easier. But every time I think I’m out, I get dragged back in. It’s tough on times. 
 

Like the Godfather then!

2 hours ago, SeaJay said:

Has anyone here ever experienced things like, seeing images and/or seeing coincidences as something akin to a sign?

Yes, often. 

 

My feeling is we make most of those associations but there could be other things. But God should be obvious not play some Riddler games. I should not have not to wonder is this from God? What does it mean. I mean God spoke directly to Paul and he was a Christian hunter. Why not be obvious to everyone?

 

One example that really struck. I was trying to get the phone number of a friend I met some time ago but forgot. After some failed attemots I was in a train heading to that friend's hometown, the reason for me wanting to get his phone number. This random girl approached me in the train saying she was bored and wanted to talk. Turns out she was also religious, but also personally knew my friend and gave me his phone number. I was awe struck and thought God and his saints answered my prayers.

 

[mwc]

12 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

 

I really thought you were going to reminis about some youthful drug experimentation in the past lmao!!!

     Long story short, no.   Though I did see quite a few visions reasonably sober at strip clubs, parties and whatnot.  As a xian I would have to say these were not of god.  The best visions never were.

 

          mwc

 

[SeaJay]

4 hours ago, Myrkhoos said:

You do realise meditation teachers from most tradition say TO IGNORE thoughts that arise, right? :)) They are just that, thoughts arising in the mind. When I meditate all sorts of things arise.

Yes, but it’s still unnerving to me. 
 

4 hours ago, Myrkhoos said:

Between waking and sleep and between falling asleep and being asleep our brains are in this internediate, trance lucid dream state where very intense imagery can appear while still conscious. It is a state widely accesed in hypnosis.

Like the Godfather then!

4 hours ago, Myrkhoos said:

My feeling is we make most of those associations but there could be other things. But God should be obvious not play some Riddler games. I should not have not to wonder is this from God? What does it mean. I mean God spoke directly to Paul and he was a Christian hunter. Why not be obvious to everyone?

 

One example that really struck. I was trying to get the phone number of a friend I met some time ago but forgot. After some failed attemots I was in a train heading to that friend's hometown, the reason for me wanting to get his phone number. This random girl approached me in the train saying she was bored and wanted to talk. Turns out she was also religious, but also personally knew my friend and gave me his phone number. I was awe struck and thought God and his saints answered my prayers.

I think something like that would really send me into a tail spin. Interesting to know these coincidences do occur though. 

[midniterider]

On 7/18/2021 at 2:40 AM, SeaJay said:

Hello all

I wasn’t sure where to post this so I hope it is ok here. 
 

I have been (though see below) a Christian for about 30 years (I am 53, today actually), and I am terrified of hell (specifically, the lake of fire). I have wanted to leave Christianity because the last 10+ years have been terrible. Not every day, but enough that I had to do something. The anxiety is literally ruining my life and I can’t cope with it. 

I was happy being a Christian, but then, I thought I had blasphemed the Holy Spirit back in November 2010. I just thought up a bad thought/image for no apparent reason - what therapists might call an 'Intrusive Thought'. After that, as I say, it all changed for me and Christianity became a fearful thing. 

On the 15th July 2021, I had a therapy session and I said to the therapist, when I first got into Christianity, I didn’t know it was true, but I decided to become a Christian for various reasons. If you had put a gun to my head and said “tell me what you really believe”, and you knew whether or not I would be lying, I would have admitted I did not think Christianity was true – but hoped it was. 

Today I realise, I still think Christianity probably isn’t true, only, instead of thinking, “Christianity probably isn't true - but I hope it is”, I now think “Christianity probably isn't true - but I fear it is.” Then it struck me - if that's the case - I have never really believed it was true.  

Truth is, I really do not know, either way. I really do not know if it is true, and I really do not know if it is not true. But I think it probably is not true. Even if all my anxiety was removed for a minute, so that it would not influence my thinking, this is what I would honestly think. 

I never wanted any of this. I was once a happy Christian, with the hope of an afterlife. Over the years I ended up being a member of two churches (at different times of course), and I read the Bible a couple of times, studied the Bible on my own, studied as part of a midweek church group, and I prayed and tried to live a Christian life. But the anxiety has been so bad I reached the point where I felt I could not carry on like this; the suffering was simply too much. 

Just to clarify, I am not really saying it is definitely not true. I can’t make that claim (just like I cannot say it definitely is true). I think I’m saying deep down, I mean, really deep down, when it comes to it, I honestly don’t know – but I think it’s probably not true. 

Here is the salient part: 

If that is how I really think, if that is what I really believe (and I think it is), and God exists, then God already knew this before even I realised it. I might have been able to hide the fact from myself but I never did nor ever could hide it from God. In that respect, seeing as God already knows this, there is no longer any point pretending things are different. God already knew and knows I think Christianity probably isn't true. 

I am not sure what happens next, but I do feel a bit better. That said, I also feel anxious, sometimes, quite a bit anxious. But I cannot deny what I believe any longer. 

Having done a little research, I think I would be classed as an Agnostic-Atheist. 

And guess what? I now find myself worrying Islam might be true. I am serious.  

If there actually is a God, I hope they understand that I am sorry it came to this (as I said earlier, there was a time I was happy as a Christian). I could not take the anxiety anymore. I persevered for over 10 years. But in the end it was too much. 

I hope this gets easier. 

 

If God is real, loving and wanted you to believe in him he would not stay in hiding. He would not allow you to worry and be anxious. I am pretty darned sure Jesus does not exist but if he does and he wants worship like the bible says then I demand he appear. I'm not going to kowtow to a god with poor behavior or lack of social skills. 

 

I got tired of the kowtowing nonsense in 2003 and said bye bye to Jesus. I got no response. I did have a bit of post conversion fear but it helped to tell myself I was more powerful than god and jesus and satan. I stood up to them and they faded. Even if it is all real and I end up burning in hell I will lift my burning middle finger towards heaven for all eternity and tell god to stick it, because sending good people to hell because they didnt kiss your butt... is evil. But there really isnt any indication in reality that there is a God, Satan, Jesus, or Hell. 

 

You should be able to have a frank and open conversation and criticize God to his face. I'm not going to live in fear for all eternity. (Hope that's helpful) 

[Myrkhoos]

 

Well, the whole point of a lot of meditation is letting go of thoughts so that it eventually stops being unnerving. With lots of practice of course.

     I had others. I wanted to go Mount Athos, a famous Eastern Orthodox monastic center in Greece. I had no money and/or connections. I prayed and told a priest about it. Soon, that priest called me and told me he had found a benefator and and a reservation, I just had to go.

      Another time, an abott of a monastery told me that my sort of girlfriend at the time, who was pregnant, would have a miscarriage. And she did. He did say something like, well, maybe she will have a miscarriage, but out if the blue and kept talking about it.

     Another time, I was having trouble with my spiritual father and stumbled on a book in a local religious library about oroblens with spiritual fathers. And, the kicker, the translators name was the same as my whole name, which, altough not unique in my country , is not that common and I had never ever heard about anyone with my name before.

     And other things plus personal exp.

.   By the way, you could consider trauma therapy, there are diverse forms of it, including medication( of which I am personally very skeptical but not a denialist) and natural supplementation. Magnesium has helped me. CBD oil. I hear weed and others help provided they are legal in your home. Heck, I think even some homeopathy, Bach remedies and especially bodywork massage helped me. You could and see what helps your anxiety. Not saying they are cures, but they do help manage it and take the edge off.

.   As a side note the unforgivable sin was represented , to me, as a willful rejection of truth and saving grace. The example was the pharisees seeing Jesus exorcise devils and accusing him of being a devil worshipper .So you are not forgiven bk, in effect, you refuse forgiveness. Some other way it was presented was either despair, so losing hope in God's mercy to forgive and save you, or a kind of distorted hyped up faith where you were sure if God's forgiveness that you just sinned away disregarding Gods law. Both were actually a refusal of true repentance. 

 

[SeaJay]

40 minutes ago, Myrkhoos said:

By the way, you could consider trauma therapy, there are diverse forms of it, including medication( of which I am personally very skeptical but not a denialist) and natural supplementation. Magnesium has helped me. CBD oil. I hear weed and others help provided they are legal in your home. Heck, I think even some homeopathy, Bach remedies and especially bodywork massage helped me. You could and see what helps your anxiety. Not saying they are cures, but they do help manage it and take the edge off.

 

Thank you for the recommendations. 
 

40 minutes ago, Myrkhoos said:

.   As a side note the unforgivable sin was represented , to me, as a willful rejection of truth and saving grace. 

I think I fall under that category. Seeing as I deliberately set out to lose my faith  Yes it was because of incredible anxiety, and not rebellion for the sake of rebellion, but still. 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

3 hours ago, SeaJay said:

 

Thank you for the recommendations. 
 

I think I fall under that category. Seeing as I deliberately set out to lose my faith  Yes it was because of incredible anxiety, and not rebellion for the sake of rebellion, but still. 

 

It was presented to me the way Myrkoos said as well initially. But honestly to me as a Christian that didn't really make sense. I mean either way if you deny the "Holy spirit" you go to hell. So how can willful rejection be unforgivable. Ya here testimonies all the time of how someone rejected "Gods call" in church. And how it took several days if not years for them to accept "Gods truth". Think about the apostle Paul. How many times would he have had to reject "the truth". 

 

However what made sense to me is that it was supposed to be in relation to the ten commandments. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain. And from my perspective that was to claim the lords name to do evil in his name. Which fit with this instance with Jesus. He was casting out devils. The pharisees accused him of casting out devils by the devil. They were accusing him of something that was unforgivable. He was claiming to be Gods son. So he says no. How can I cast out devils by the devil? Because how can the devil cast himself out. Then explains that to blaspheme the Holy Ghost is unforgivable. What is supposed to lead a Christian? The holy ghost right? So If I told someone that I was lead by the Hoky Ghost to kill a bunch of Asians at the local rub n tug. Then that would be Blaspheme of the Holy Ghost because God can't do or tell someone to do that which is evil right? And that made more sense to me back then. 

 

I think that was the original meaning. But it evolved into being unforgivable to reject Gods truth as a fear tactic, which has obviously worked with you. They just teach that to make hell that much more fearful. Basically convert and don't question what we say or burn in hell for eternity. 

 

1 John 4:1, NASB: "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into 

 

Seajay, all you have done is tried the spirits. Your making sure that what you are being told is the truth and are finding that it is not. Its funny that this scripture is in the Bible. Because when you follow these directions thats when one begins to see its all a lie. 

 

Bottom line. Your not going to hell. Hell doesn't exist. I hope you read "Heaven and hell" by Bart ehrmann. You really need to read that. It will go a long way to ease those fears of hell. He shows how in the earliest Christian belief there was no hell like what is taught today. Hell and heaven were evolutions in the faith over time for various reasons. He does a very good job laying it all out. 

[Joshpantera]

16 hours ago, SeaJay said:

I think if I could get over this notion I am being communicated with, deconversion would be easier. But every time I think I’m out, I get dragged back in. It’s tough on times. 
 

Has anyone here ever experienced things like, seeing images and/or seeing coincidences as something akin to a sign?

 

That's exactly what Dr. Kirby Surprise has been dealing with through patients for years. You are expressing textbook synchronicity issues. Especially concerning the "signs" issue. 

 

You should go through his book and read about some of the case studies and the general content of the book: 

 

Synchronicity by Kirby Surprise | Audiobook | Audible.com

 

 

[Myrkhoos]

9 hours ago, SeaJay said:

 

Thank you for the recommendations. 
 

I think I fall under that category. Seeing as I deliberately set out to lose my faith  Yes it was because of incredible anxiety, and not rebellion for the sake of rebellion, but still. 

No, you do not, I think. From my exp, if you told that story to a spiritual father with some knowledge from Eastern Orthodoxy he would tell that that thought from November 2010 and subsequent anxiety is eirher something biological, but more probably the devil trying to mess with you and trying to get you into despair. I had sexual thoughts with the Virgin Mary and that is literally what I was told - seems like a common thing, and they went away. That thought was not YOURS , and it was only the devil's delusion to think it was. The solution would be communiom, confession, and just ignoring those thoughts as the more attention you give them, the stronger they become. 

      And you did not set out to lose your faith. One cannot do that, really, You started investigating your true feelings and other things about but you did not set out trying to lose your faith.

      And disbelief is not really the sin against the Holy spirit, it is something like altough you know God is all powerful, you start to say that you are unredeemable and stop asking for forgiveness, stop any spiritual activity whatsoever. It is stubborn opposition to the truth. Something like was said.

     But, the thing is, it was actually forgivable, if you changed your attitude. Like ok, I stop my despair and start practicing spirituality. The unforgivable part did not mean that repentance is impossible but if one continues in that state it is. So, again the solution would be, you, somehow, get a change of heart and confess and that is that.

[Myrkhoos]

Reading about other religions reaaaally helped gain perspective by the way.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

13 minutes ago, Myrkhoos said:

No, you do not, I think. From my exp, if you told that story to a spiritual father with some knowledge from Eastern Orthodoxy he would tell that that thought from November 2010 and subsequent anxiety is eirher something biological, but more probably the devil trying to mess with you and trying to get you into despair. I had sexual thoughts with the Virgin Mary and that is literally what I was told - seems like a common thing, and they went away. That thought was not YOURS , and it was only the devil's delusion to think it was. The solution would be communiom, confession, and just ignoring those thoughts as the more attention you give them, the stronger they become. 

      And you did not set out to lose your faith. One cannot do that, really, You started investigating your true feelings and other things about but you did not set out trying to lose your faith.

      And disbelief is not really the sin against the Holy spirit, it is something like altough you know God is all powerful, you start to say that you are unredeemable and stop asking for forgiveness, stop any spiritual activity whatsoever. It is stubborn opposition to the truth. Something like was said.

     But, the thing is, it was actually forgivable, if you changed your attitude. Like ok, I stop my despair and start practicing spirituality. The unforgivable part did not mean that repentance is impossible but if one continues in that state it is. So, again the solution would be, you, somehow, get a change of heart and confess and that is that.

None of this really matters.

 

The Bible is a leather bound horse turd. There is no devil to put thoughts in seajays mind, there is no hell, there is no biblical God, and at this point he definitely should not consult any religious authority as that would only serve to drag him back into the very thing that is torturing him. 

 

The Solution is that he needs to read secular studies that would help reinforce his resolve to leave the leather bound turd behind. 

[Myrkhoos]

2 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

None of this really matters.

 

The Bible is a leather bound horse turd. There is no devil to put thoughts in seajays mind, there is no hell, there is no biblical God, and at this point he definitely should not consult any religious authority as that would only serve to drag him back into the very thing that is torturing him. 

 

The Solution is that he needs to read secular studies that would help reinforce his resolve to leave the leather bound turd behind. 

I think this discussion matters because you can see differences between denominations and see their solutions to issues so you can get perspective. Also, it can calm down some fears using other tools. Like hypothetical if scenarios.

     I don't know exactly what anyone should do, nor do I share your certainty. Nor do I think the Bible is leather bound horse turd as you put it. Billions of people live inspired by it, and billions more inspired by an offshoot, Islam. You may think it is wrong, but it could be the basis of people's lives for so long. I do not share this mocking attitude towards religion. At least, it is a valuable insight in psychology and sociology. Otherwise it is very easy to get into other civil secular religions like some forms of nationalism, fascism, communism, wokeism, scientism. 

    And I think one should not restrict himself only to religious or secular sources. That seems the same kind of mistake. Reading and listening only to confirm what you already want and think. I am not saying you neccesarily should read stuff, maybe it is too traumatic for the time, maybe it is exactly what you need to gain some insight. I think this is a case by case basis.

    I mean sure religious people have their bias, but so do secularists. I talked to authentic buddhist and daoist ordained priest/ monks and it really helped, for example.

[Myrkhoos]

5 minutes ago, Myrkhoos said:

I think this discussion matters because you can see differences between denominations and see their solutions to issues so you can get perspective. Also, it can calm down some fears using other tools. Like hypothetical if scenarios.

     I don't know exactly what anyone should do, nor do I share your certainty. Nor do I think the Bible is leather bound horse turd as you put it. Billions of people live inspired by it, and billions more inspired by an offshoot, Islam. You may think it is wrong, but it could be the basis of people's lives for so long. I do not share this mocking attitude towards religion. At least, it is a valuable insight in psychology and sociology. Otherwise it is very easy to get into other civil secular religions like some forms of nationalism, fascism, communism, wokeism, scientism. 

    And I think one should not restrict himself only to religious or secular sources. That seems the same kind of mistake. Reading and listening only to confirm what you already want and think. I am not saying you neccesarily should read stuff, maybe it is too traumatic for the time, maybe it is exactly what you need to gain some insight. I think this is a case by case basis.

    I mean sure religious people have their bias, but so do secularists. I talked to authentic buddhist and daoist ordained priest/ monks and it really helped, for example.

Edit. I was NOT advising him to go to an Orthodox Church and get baptised :)))

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

12 minutes ago, Myrkhoos said:

Edit. I was NOT advising him to go to an Orthodox Church and get baptised :)))

 

This was what I was getting at earlier. The way you worded that post it sounded like you were telling him to consult an orthodox leader, that the devil put those thoughts in his head, and that confession and repentance is his solution. 

 

I just really thought you were giving him bad advise earlier. I apologize for the misunderstanding. 

 

That would be very counter productive for his current situation trying to leave Christianity, and be free of the fear that it has caused in his life. 

 

But I still do think the Bible is a leather bound horse turd. Whether billions believe in it or not. Those billions hold humanity back from our full potential by pushing their outdated fiction based agenda. But I do still like learning what others believe and watching them. I remember how it was. It is absolutely amazing to me that it is all feelings produced from their minds through their faith. 

 

 

[SeaJay]

11 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

 

It was presented to me the way Myrkoos said as well initially. But honestly to me as a Christian that didn't really make sense. I mean either way if you deny the "Holy spirit" you go to hell. So how can willful rejection be unforgivable. Ya here testimonies all the time of how someone rejected "Gods call" in church. And how it took several days if not years for them to accept "Gods truth". Think about the apostle Paul. How many times would he have had to reject "the truth". 

 

However what made sense to me is that it was supposed to be in relation to the ten commandments. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain. And from my perspective that was to claim the lords name to do evil in his name. Which fit with this instance with Jesus. He was casting out devils. The pharisees accused him of casting out devils by the devil. They were accusing him of something that was unforgivable. He was claiming to be Gods son. So he says no. How can I cast out devils by the devil? Because how can the devil cast himself out. Then explains that to blaspheme the Holy Ghost is unforgivable. What is supposed to lead a Christian? The holy ghost right? So If I told someone that I was lead by the Hoky Ghost to kill a bunch of Asians at the local rub n tug. Then that would be Blaspheme of the Holy Ghost because God can't do or tell someone to do that which is evil right? And that made more sense to me back then. 

 

I think that was the original meaning. But it evolved into being unforgivable to reject Gods truth as a fear tactic, which has obviously worked with you. They just teach that to make hell that much more fearful. Basically convert and don't question what we say or burn in hell for eternity. 

 

1 John 4:1, NASB: "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into 

 

Seajay, all you have done is tried the spirits. Your making sure that what you are being told is the truth and are finding that it is not. Its funny that this scripture is in the Bible. Because when you follow these directions thats when one begins to see its all a lie. 

 

Bottom line. Your not going to hell. Hell doesn't exist. I hope you read "Heaven and hell" by Bart ehrmann. You really need to read that. It will go a long way to ease those fears of hell. He shows how in the earliest Christian belief there was no hell like what is taught today. Hell and heaven were evolutions in the faith over time for various reasons. He does a very good job laying it all out. 

Thank you for the reply, it’s appreciated. I’ve read Bart Ehrman’s book. I think I need to read it again.  Thanks for the advice 

[SeaJay]

7 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

 

That's exactly what Dr. Kirby Surprise has been dealing with through patients for years. You are expressing textbook synchronicity issues. Especially concerning the "signs" issue. 

 

You should go through his book and read about some of the case studies and the general content of the book: 

 

Synchronicity by Kirby Surprise | Audiobook | Audible.com

 

 

Thank you for the recommendation I’ll take a look at it. 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

1 minute ago, SeaJay said:

Thank you for the reply, it’s appreciated. I’ve read Bart Ehrman’s book. I think I need to read it again.  Thanks for the advice 

 

Awesome. I thought I had suggested it to you before in the past. Did it help ease some of your fears?

[SeaJay]

4 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

 

Awesome. I thought I had suggested it to you before in the past. Did it help ease some of your fears?

It did, a little. But there was a section that said how some Jews do believe in hell and that made me anxious because that was one of the things that gave me some comfort (that Jews don’t believe in a fiery hell). Granted it was only a small section of Jews, and the rest of the book was good, but that made me a little edgy. 

[SeaJay]

3 hours ago, Myrkhoos said:

No, you do not, I think. From my exp, if you told that story to a spiritual father with some knowledge from Eastern Orthodoxy he would tell that that thought from November 2010 and subsequent anxiety is eirher something biological, but more probably the devil trying to mess with you and trying to get you into despair. I had sexual thoughts with the Virgin Mary and that is literally what I was told - seems like a common thing, and they went away. That thought was not YOURS , and it was only the devil's delusion to think it was. The solution would be communiom, confession, and just ignoring those thoughts as the more attention you give them, the stronger they become. 

      And you did not set out to lose your faith. One cannot do that, really, You started investigating your true feelings and other things about but you did not set out trying to lose your faith.

      And disbelief is not really the sin against the Holy spirit, it is something like altough you know God is all powerful, you start to say that you are unredeemable and stop asking for forgiveness, stop any spiritual activity whatsoever. It is stubborn opposition to the truth. Something like was said.

     But, the thing is, it was actually forgivable, if you changed your attitude. Like ok, I stop my despair and start practicing spirituality. The unforgivable part did not mean that repentance is impossible but if one continues in that state it is. So, again the solution would be, you, somehow, get a change of heart and confess and that is that.

I don’t know. I mean, if you believe but then set out to deliberately ruin that belief, on purpose, intentionally, I think that is pretty bad.
 

That said, I’d reached the point where I just had to do something and it was the only solution I could see. It’s still the only solution I can see. I couldn’t take much more of the suffering. 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

6 minutes ago, SeaJay said:

It did, a little. But there was a section that said how some Jews do believe in hell and that made me anxious because that was one of the things that gave me some comfort (that Jews don’t believe in a fiery hell). Granted it was only a small section of Jews, and the rest of the book was good, but that made me a little edgy. 

 

Just remember how it all evolved and it doesn't really matter what Jews believe now. They have been influenced by the past 2000 years of hell propaganda. None of the ancient jews believed in hell. If they didnt believe in hell then, after God had supposedly come down himself to give thenm the law. Why fear hell now? Obviously it was a change in religious belief well after the initial books were written. 

[SeaJay]

Feeling anxious this morning. Tearful almost. Just can’t shake it. What if I’m wrong? What if I’m wrong? What if I’m wrong? That kind of thing. It’s rough.
 

Sometimes it feels like the anxiety is still there, only the focus has changed from:

 

“Worrying Christianity is true but hoping it isn’t “

 

To:

 

“Admitting Christianity probably isn’t true, but - worrying it might be.”

 

I thought this might happen. Also, it doesn’t help that it is my belief that once you leave Christianity, you can never go back. I understand there are people who say you can, but the little research I did, lead me to believe you can’t. It’s one of the main things that stopped me crossing the line. But now I’ve done so, I might have made things worse. 

Im not saying I would go back. I don’t feel I could, because the suffering was intense. I cannot go back unless something unbelievably stupendous happened. It’s very telling that I don’t even want that unbelievably stupendous thing to happen. 

So, deep down, I don’t think Christianity is true. But I still worry that it is.
 

What a predicament!

 

Edit: That said, I’ve heard quite a few people say that, even now, they get moments of doubt. 

[SeaJay]

11 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

 

Just remember how it all evolved and it doesn't really matter what Jews believe now. They have been influenced by the past 2000 years of hell propaganda. None of the ancient jews believed in hell. If they didnt believe in hell then, after God had supposedly come down himself to give thenm the law. Why fear hell now? Obviously it was a change in religious belief well after the initial books were written. 

Very good point. I wish I could think this way, instead of letting the fear trip up my logical thinking process. In time perhaps. 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

1 minute ago, SeaJay said:

Very good point. I wish I could think this way, instead of letting the fear trip up my logical thinking process. In time perhaps. 

 

You'll get there. It takes time.