Two cyclists dead: "God is Great!!!"

[walterpthefirst]

This forum is a sham. I gave concrete evidence based on observation, repeatability, and falsification that nothing broke the law of biogenesis and gave why it is a law.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

No, you didn't, Johnny.

 

Here's why.

 

For biogenesis to have been observed there must have been people present.

 

But what does Genesis tell us?

 

On the Third day god created trees and seed-bearing plants.

 

On the Sixth day god created Man.

 

So, there were no humans present to observe the Genesis of Biology.

 

You've destroyed your own argument by insisting on observation during an event where no observation was possible.

 

Read your Bible!

[walterpthefirst]

6 hours ago, Johnny said:

Soooooo common of a comeback from you fools. You refuse to see the lies you believe so you just go on lying and love to shut down things that show that. Too bad you refuse to see how disgusting your tactics are. Yet.....you WILL be seeing it at some point. No one knows when our time is up, not even any of you. So enjoy your foolishness while it lasts.

 

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

 

Psalms 14:1 "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good."

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS5buGnHVZw

 

 

Ad hominems and personal attacks.

 

And if you're going to quote the book of Romans...

 

17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. 

18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 

19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord.

 

So, even if you are insulted here, if you return those insults and pay back evil for evil you, then are disobeying god.

 

...and the Moderators, who warned you not to do that.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Hundreds of thousands of scientists, researchers, university professors, laboratory technicians, and doctors, from fields as varied as astrophysics, microbiology, and immunology, all tend to agree with certain hypotheses, while admitting we ultimately do not know. 

 

But we are all fools because we don't believe some random internet troll who disagrees with them all.

 

While I tend to avoid arguments from popularity and appeals to authority as logical fallacies, in this case, it bears pointing out.

 

Now back to your regularly scheduled "going to hell" threat, already in progress.

[Johnny]

23 hours ago, midniterider said:

Matthew 7:1

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

Matthew 7:2

For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

From the same folks that blame God for bad things, yet don't believe in God, can't face the evidence against them so they go on thinking creation and life happened on their own, and just keep on screwing up with what the bible says. The only good you all have shown is you're experst at being fools. 

 

https://spiritandtruthonline.org/to-judge-or-not-to-judge-that-is-the-question/?tot=redirect

 

23 hours ago, midniterider said:

Would you wish for someone to 'burn' for eternity just because they didn't believe in your religious nonsense?

Do copy and paste where I said that. 

 

What I said was....

---Enjoy your burn, suckers, you worked hard for it!---

 

What's so bad about showing you all what you labored so hard to achieve? Would you have rather I lied to you and say your labor was in vain, or lie that you can be such fools and everything will be ok, God will understand? You chose your path and worked hard at ignoring the obvious. I sure couldn't work that hard like that to believe such foolish things. 

[Johnny]

13 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Hundreds of thousands of scientists, researchers, university professors, laboratory technicians, and doctors, from fields as varied as astrophysics, microbiology, and immunology, all tend to agree with certain hypotheses, while admitting we ultimately do not know. 

 

But we are all fools because we don't believe some random internet troll who disagrees with them all.

 

While I tend to avoid arguments from popularity and appeals to authority as logical fallacies, in this case, it bears pointing out.

 

Now back to your regularly scheduled "going to hell" threat, already in progress.

"Hundreds of thousands....." 

 

"...while admitting we ultimately do not know."

 

Actually, you're lying because we DO know but you all refuse to see it. Someone can refuse 2 + 2 = 4 and claim we just don't know for sure. No matter what the evidence, you can say anything but the OBVIOUS. 

 

"While I tend to avoid arguments from popularity and appeals to authority as logical fallacies, in this case, it bears pointing out."

 

That's funny, I was shown some of your evidence and I showed it didn't hold up. You can't provide any evidence by scientific means to believe that life arose on its own, nor creation, by any of your "Hundreds of thousands" yet you will still go with them. 

 

George Wald of Harvard confirmed this when he wrote: - - "The reasonable view was to believe in spontaneous generation; the only alternative, to believe in a single, primary act of supernatural creation. There is no third alternative. For this reason, many scientists a century ago chose to regard the belief in spontaneous generation as a philosophical necessity" (1954, pp. 45-53,).

 

 Gaffron admitted: "A natural scientist who wants to study this evolutionary process has no choice but to start and to proceed from the assumption that the living came from the non-living. This, in spite of the fact that what stares him in the eye—all life about him—is so fantastically complex that it is hard for him to believe it truly happened" (1960, p. 46,). 

 

Evolutionary anthropologist Loren Eiseley summed up the matter in his classic text, "The Immense Journey, wrote: "With the failure of these many efforts, science was left in the somewhat embarrassing position of having to postulate theories of living origins which it could not demonstrate. After having chided the theologian for his reliance on myth and miracle, science found itself in the unenviable position of having to create a mythology of its own: namely, the assumption that what, after long effort, could not be proved to take place today, had, in truth, taken place in the primeval past" (1957, pp. 201-202,). 

 

Sandra Hall observed: "Evolutionary scientists are willing to bend natural laws, manufacture abstruse and impossible theories, go to any length to deny God and to see that everybody else does, so we can have an absurd world where they can function because they are absurd people. They say spontaneous generation had to happen. It doesn’t. It hasn’t. It won’t. It can’t. But it did. They say" (1974, p. 21, emp. in orig.). 

-------Then, almost as an afterthought, the Halls added: “It is not easy to overthrow a belief, however absurd and harmful it may be, which your civilization has promulgated as the scientific truth for the better part of a century” (1974, p. 74).

 

These and many others don't go on with "admitting we ultimately do not know" but admit they know your belief is hopeless.

[Johnny]

13 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Now back to your regularly scheduled "going to hell" threat, already in progress.

If people were jumping off a high cliff and believing it was safe yet all of them died from the drop no matter what evidence they were shown that would happen, and I told you if you jump you will meet the same fate, I can just see you telling me I'm threatening you. 

 

Also, copy and paste where I put  "going to hell." Maybe I wrote that in error so do point out where I put that. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

16 minutes ago, Johnny said:

Actually, you're lying because we DO know but you all refuse to see it.

No, Johnny.  Nobody really knows how the universe came to be in its present form.  Nobody knows exactly how life began on this planet.  We don't know, and neither do you.

 

We are honest enough to admit we don't know.  But you need to insert god because you can't handle not knowing.  You don't like the feeling of powerlessness and helplessness that comes with not knowing.  Life, the universe, and everything scares the shit out of you; so you insert god, pretend he's in control, and imagine that he's your friend. 

 

If that comforts you, then you're welcome to it.  By all means, believe in it.  But if you want me to believe in it, you're going to have to do better than a god of the gaps argument based on a profound misapplication of sciences you clearly do not understand.

 

You've wasted page after page in multiple threads trying to do just that and you have failed miserably.  When people disagree, you hurl insults and accusations.  When people try to correct you and give you a better understanding of the science involved, you call them liars and fools.  It's obvious that this is the only trick you know and you have nothing new to offer. 

 

It's a shame, really.  For all your bullying and bluster, you're still just a scared little boy playing make believe with your imaginary friend.

[Joshpantera]

47 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

No, Johnny.  Nobody really knows how the universe came to be in its present form.  Nobody knows exactly how life began on this planet.  We don't know, and neither do you.

 

We are honest enough to admit we don't know.  But you need to insert god because you can't handle not knowing.  You don't like the feeling of powerlessness and helplessness that comes with not knowing.  Life, the universe, and everything scares the shit out of you; so you insert god, pretend he's in control, and imagine that he's your friend. 

 

So true, every bit of this! 

 

47 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

If that comforts you, then you're welcome to it.  By all means, believe in it.  But if you want me to believe in it, you're going to have to do better than a god of the gaps argument based on a profound misapplication of sciences you clearly do not understand.

 

You've wasted page after page in multiple threads trying to do just that and you have failed miserably.  When people disagree, you hurl insults and accusations.  When people try to correct you and give you a better understanding of the science involved, you call them liars and fools.  It's obvious that this is the only trick you know and you have nothing new to offer. 

 

It's a shame, really.  For all your bullying and bluster, you're still just a scared little boy playing make believe with your imaginary friend.

 

We joke, but ultimately this is really sad when put into perspective.

 

This is why I've pointed out so many times in these discussions that christianity tends to appeal to very 'egotistical people' who like the idea of make believing that they are spiritual. It's ultimately fake and imaginary on their part. There's no enlightenment in any of this incoherent rambling. 

 

It's like spirituality for dummies, literally. And coincidentally, they interpret mythology literally. They're dualistic in their thinking of (1) spirit and (2) matter. And it's just not very spiritual minded at all. Not compared to what I see from so many other people in the world. And not even compared to christian mysticism, for that matter. Which the pseudo-spiritual would condemn as apostate. 

 

These are all the hallmarks of a very non-spiritual, or at the most, low rung varieties of spiritual thinking.

 

Which, as it were, and due to the egoic appeal involved, boastfully proclaims spiritual dominance in the world - the exact opposite of what's demonstrable by way of their actions. Make believe spirituality is what most christians fall into. 

 

Johnny has made an ass of himself in the process of trying to argue on behalf of christianity, transparently revealing this scared little boy playing with a make-believe friend persona. What a sad ordeal.  

 

What do we do with something like this? 

 

Logic was out the window before it started. 

Reason was out the window before it started. 

Spirituality was out the window before it started. 

 

And there's no indication that any of the three will ever make it into the window...

[Joshpantera]

Here's a sneak preview of the sort of thing going on in my private ontological group on facebook: 

 

The vast majority of institutional faiths hold to dogmatic moralistic impulses and strangely enough have a metaphysics that is primarily physicalist and that is a duality of Naturalism / Supernaturalism . There are exceptions such as some of the Eastern traditions and the early Christian Church with it’s Neoplatonic metaphysics.

It is indeed the mystic traditions that with contemplative introspection all come to the same ground of understanding—there can only be One substance and it is our “inner Being-ness”—that illuminating light of awareness—is that integral part of this greater whole. Be it Sufism, Kabbalah, or Christian Mysticism they all inevitably come to the exact same insights—that’s rather remarkable and speaks volumes.

The mystical and Vedic path is always in seeing no separation and understanding that our very Being is Spirit or Consciousness. Our ego is a mental psychological construct that we take on as a fiction to function in a world of objects. Transcendence is always achieved in surrender to the deeper Mystery and relinquishing the egoic self.

“With the death of the Self the fear of mortality drops away, as does the need to follow others. For those of a religious nature who are egoically led, the pillars of faith and belief that support religious dogma will also crumble. Your isolated persona will diminish, and the feeling of unease created by living under the tyranny of self-doubt, guilt and uncertainty will lift, along with the incessant need to self-protect. The puffed up ego deflates like a seeping balloon as the air that gave it form returns to the unrestricted and limitless expanse from which it came. Your defences lower because there is nothing left to defend and all divisions fade as the bounded separateness of the constricted Self disperses back into the boundless Absolute.”

~ No Path to Enlightenment—The I before I am - exposing the illusion of your Self. Colin Mcmorran

[midniterider]

2 hours ago, Johnny said:

From the same folks that blame God for bad things, yet don't believe in God, can't face the evidence against them so they go on thinking creation and life happened on their own, and just keep on screwing up with what the bible says. The only good you all have shown is you're experst at being fools. 

 

https://spiritandtruthonline.org/to-judge-or-not-to-judge-that-is-the-question/?tot=redirect

 

Do copy and paste where I said that. 

 

What I said was....

---Enjoy your burn, suckers, you worked hard for it!---

 

What's so bad about showing you all what you labored so hard to achieve? Would you have rather I lied to you and say your labor was in vain, or lie that you can be such fools and everything will be ok, God will understand? You chose your path and worked hard at ignoring the obvious. I sure couldn't work that hard like that to believe such foolish things. 

 

Enjoy your silliness. The bible is fun to cherry pick and debate which scripture is better than other scripture... but none of it has authority over me. It is entirely fiction. Your God is imaginary and has zero authority over me. You speak from your imagination. 

[midniterider]

1 hour ago, Joshpantera said:

 

So true, every bit of this! 

 

 

We joke, but ultimately this is really sad when put into perspective.

 

This is why I've pointed out so many times in these discussions that christianity tends to appeal to very 'egotistical people' who like the idea of make believing that they are spiritual. It's ultimately fake and imaginary on their part. There's no enlightenment in any of this incoherent rambling. 

 

It's like spirituality for dummies, literally. And coincidentally, they interpret mythology literally. They're dualistic in their thinking of (1) spirit and (2) matter. And it's just not very spiritual minded at all. Not compared to what I see from so many other people in the world. And not even compared to christian mysticism, for that matter. Which the pseudo-spiritual would condemn as apostate. 

 

These are all the hallmarks of a very non-spiritual, or at the most, low rung varieties of spiritual thinking.

 

Which, as it were, and due to the egoic appeal involved, boastfully proclaims spiritual dominance in the world - the exact opposite of what's demonstrable by way of their actions. Make believe spirituality is what most christians fall into. 

 

Johnny has made an ass of himself in the process of trying to argue on behalf of christianity, transparently revealing this scared little boy playing with a make-believe friend persona. What a sad ordeal.  

 

What do we do with something like this? 

 

Logic was out the window before it started. 

Reason was out the window before it started. 

Spirituality was out the window before it started. 

 

And there's no indication that any of the three will ever make it into the window...

 

Well, it was fun to watch Johnny devolve into a hateful person wishing us to burn (or was that just a slang reference?) ... such a loving example for Christianity. I guess if he is behaving Christlike I'd rather remain agnostic. 

 

 

 

 

[Astreja]

2 hours ago, Johnny said:

If people were jumping off a high cliff and believing it was safe yet all of them died from the drop no matter what evidence they were shown that would happen, and I told you if you jump you will meet the same fate, I can just see you telling me I'm threatening you.

 

If the high cliff never existed, but was just a story made up by church leaders to frighten people into the pews, all you're doing is perpetuating a centuries-old act of institutionalized psychological abuse.  That's what I believe, and in fact have believed since the age of seven.  (I'll be 65 next month.)

[Astreja]

2 hours ago, Johnny said:

Actually, you're lying because we DO know but you all refuse to see it.

 

I think we should put your mind-reading abilities to the test, Johnny.  You claim to know an awful lot about the thoughts of multiple people whom you've very likely never even met.  Based on what I know about my thoughts, I'm not "refusing" anything - I'm merely unconvinced.  How do you propose to authenticate your credentials?

[walterpthefirst]

You call us fools and liars, Johnny.

 

But, according to scripture, god cannot be a fool and he cannot lie.

 

So, if scripture tells us that life was created on the Third Day and humans on the Sixth Day...

 

...then the creation of life cannot have been observed, as you insist it was.

 

Unless you are calling god a liar?

[TABA]

11 hours ago, Johnny said:

What I said was....

---Enjoy your burn, suckers, you worked hard for it!---

 

11 hours ago, Johnny said:

Also, copy and paste where I put  "going to hell." Maybe I wrote that in error so do point out where I put that. 

Johnny has shared several videos from this guy, John Schoenheit, whose theology is largely based on his interpretation of the book of Revelation - a book that came very close to not being included in the canon of christian scripture and which has been interpreted in vastly different ways by Christians who all, of course, are guided toward the truth and away from error by the Holy Spirit, as promised.  Schoenheit has even done his own translation of the Bible!  I guess none of the previous ones quite measured up: god is lucky to have him!

 

Anywho, Schoenheit’s particular interpretation of Revelation tells him that we have no immortal soul (we agree on something!) and there is no eternal punishment for the Unsaved (that would be us, folks) but instead we will be cast into the lake of fire and destroyed.  Hence, presumably, Johnny’s wish for us to “enjoy the burn”.

 

Needless to say, this rejection of the doctrine of the immortal soul is a profound heresy in the eyes of many Christians.   It might even have led to its promoters - the 16th century Schoenheits - experiencing their own burn, at the stake in the town square.  
 

Is it any wonder we shake our heads and walk away from this whole nonsensical mess that is christianity?

[pantheory]

12 hours ago, Johnny said:

If people were jumping off a high cliff and believing it was safe yet all of them died from the drop no matter what evidence they were shown that would happen, and I told you if you jump you will meet the same fate, I can just see you telling me I'm threatening you. 

 

Also, copy and paste where I put  "going to hell." Maybe I wrote that in error so do point out where I put that. 

 

Heaven is a Santa Clause story, and Hell is a story to scare-straight bad boys and girls. All pure fantasies like Genesis, Noah's Ark, and Revelation of the New Testament, All are stories lacking one drop of truth within them, Where some of the fictional stories of the New Testament have inspirational intent, Genesis and these other 100% falsifiable stories will be no more read by people a thousand years from now than they will read stories of the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. Falsifiable books of fiction like the Christian Bible and religious fables will be relegated to books identifying the stupid beliefs of ancient peoples -- when also referring to our century and peoples as the majority who were laughingly gullible concerning obviously falsifiable myths, implying stupidity.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Genesis

 

[Johnny]

22 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Nobody really knows how the universe came to be in its present form. 

Because you don't follow science. You simply refuse to know that it had to be supernatural.

 

22 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Nobody knows exactly how life began on this planet.  We don't know, and neither do you.

By science, we KNOW it had to be supernatural. The evidence is overwhelming. You refuse to admit that.

 

23 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

We are honest enough to admit we don't know. 

You're LIARS and in The End you will pay the price for it so you can fool yourself and and others all you want. 

[Johnny]

22 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

So true, every bit of this! 

Only to you liars is it true. The clear science shows what liars you are. No matter what is put in front of you, you will deny it and yet can't show ANY evidence why to doubt the clear evidence. Enjoy your lying while it lasts. 

[Johnny]

21 hours ago, midniterider said:

Well, it was fun to watch Johnny devolve into a hateful person wishing us to burn (or was that just a slang reference?) ... such a loving example for Christianity. I guess if he is behaving Christlike I'd rather remain agnostic. 

I wouldn't expect you liars to put what I really said, because you have no integrity.

 

Again....me.....

What I said was....

---Enjoy your burn, suckers, you worked hard for it!---

 

What's so bad about showing you all what you labored so hard to achieve? Would you have rather I lied to you and say your labor was in vain, or lie that you can be such fools and everything will be ok, God will understand? You chose your path and worked hard at ignoring the obvious. I sure couldn't work that hard like that to believe such foolish things. 

 

 

[Johnny]

On 7/11/2022 at 8:21 PM, Johnny said:

On 7/10/2022 at 8:28 PM, midniterider said:

Matthew 7:1

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

Matthew 7:2

For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

From the same folks that blame God for bad things, yet don't believe in God, can't face the evidence against them so they go on thinking creation and life happened on their own, and just keep on screwing up with what the bible says. The only good you all have shown is you're experst at being fools. 

 

https://spiritandtruthonline.org/to-judge-or-not-to-judge-that-is-the-question/?tot=redirect

It's always fun, but so easy, to show that you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

23 hours ago, Johnny said:

On 7/11/2022 at 6:59 AM, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Now back to your regularly scheduled "going to hell" threat, already in progress.

If people were jumping off a high cliff and believing it was safe yet all of them died from the drop no matter what evidence they were shown that would happen, and I told you if you jump you will meet the same fate, I can just see you telling me I'm threatening you. 

 

Also, copy and paste where I put  "going to hell." Maybe I wrote that in error so do point out where I put that. 

Again, fun but easy. 

[midniterider]

4 minutes ago, Johnny said:

I wouldn't expect you liars to put what I really said, because you have no integrity.

 

Again....me.....

What I said was....

---Enjoy your burn, suckers, you worked hard for it!---

 

What's so bad about showing you all what you labored so hard to achieve? Would you have rather I lied to you and say your labor was in vain, or lie that you can be such fools and everything will be ok, God will understand? You chose your path and worked hard at ignoring the obvious. I sure couldn't work that hard like that to believe such foolish things. 

 

 

 

But you repeat yourself.

[Johnny]

21 hours ago, Astreja said:

(I'll be 65 next month.)

And you STILL don't think much. You sure blow the theme of with age comes wisdom. You still think this all came about naturally but darn, you're just proven wrong so easily by me. 

[midniterider]

8 minutes ago, Johnny said:

Only to you liars is it true. The clear science shows what liars you are. No matter what is put in front of you, you will deny it and yet can't show ANY evidence why to doubt the clear evidence. Enjoy your lying while it lasts. 

 

Here is my emotional summation of your belief system:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJTlpfKSlDA

 

[Johnny]

14 hours ago, TABA said:

but instead we will be cast into the lake of fire and destroyed.

I'm shocked, you got something right. Do tell your fellow unbeliever they got it wrong in what I gave...

 

23 hours ago, Johnny said:

Now back to your regularly scheduled "going to hell" threat, already in progress.

Of course, since you don't even admit your side was proven wrong by the evidence I gave, how silly it would be to ask you for honesty. 

 

14 hours ago, TABA said:

What I said was....

---Enjoy your burn, suckers, you worked hard for it!---

Well, I mean ignoring CLEAR evidence that shows you're wrong and then giving the lame excuse that we don't know yet, that takes a LOT of work. Deliberate foolishness is and effort. So stop blaming me. I accept the CLEAR evidence and to put forth the effort of lame excuses to ignore it. So.....enjoy the burn....you all worked hard for it. 

 

14 hours ago, TABA said:

I guess none of the previous ones quite measured up: god is lucky to have him!

You're rather desperate to try to look smart but that only works with your other unbelievers.

 

2 Timothy 2:15

 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

That means there are those that don't study hard and screw things up. You're all VERY good at doing that, screwing things up.

 

14 hours ago, TABA said:

Hence, presumably, Johnny’s wish for us to “enjoy the burn”.

No, that's not my "wish" but you can keep lying. This may come to a shock to you but I'm the one giving evidence and your side is ignoring it by NO evidence to prove it wrong. I'm the one giving truth. So if my wish was to have you burn, I'd be lying like you do to see to it that you do burn. Wow, I actually had to explain that to you. Of course, since you don't want to own up to what YOU'RE doing, just go for the lying part. 

 

14 hours ago, TABA said:

Is it any wonder we shake our heads and walk away from this whole nonsensical mess that is christianity?

From the group who is the epitome of nonsensical...this all came about on its own. I only touched on a few of the MANY topics that shows CLEARY that is nonsensical. And.................it's ignored. 

 

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

9 minutes ago, Johnny said:

And you STILL don't think much. You sure blow the theme of with age comes wisdom. You still think this all came about naturally but darn, you're just proven wrong so easily by me. 

At 81 years of age, 50 years of Christianity, and after 20 years of working in christian programs, I don't think I have ever seen a more conceited christian.  Either that, or you are a very persistant troll.  And as a sarcastic agnostic, I say, If your god exists, which I don't believe is possible, I am sure he/she/it is proud of you.