Edgarcito Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 28 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: Why does there need to be a god at all, if the universe is primary consciousness, Ed? 22 minutes ago, walterpthefirst said: Josh doesn't need my help Edgarcito. He can fight his own battles. All he has to do to win when fighting you is to remain consistent. Something you find very hard to do. As per the following example. A week ago you said that his (non-Christian) explanation of a conscious universe would be bullshit. But today you've said that Christians spew bullshit. Please make up your mind! Just thinking of when you helped him before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterpthefirst Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Edgarcito said: Just thinking of when you helped him before... But this time he doesn't need my help. Occam's Razor wins the fight for him. He knew this when he was talking about aik. But the Razor also helps him win against you too. Do you understand how and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted February 17, 2023 Super Moderator Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: Why does there need to be a god at all, if the universe is primary consciousness, Ed? 37 minutes ago, Edgarcito said: Just thinking of when you helped him before... Please answer my question directly, Ed. It may help you better understand Occam's Razor. If the universe itself is the source of consciousness, if the universe itself is primary consciousness, if the universe itself is conscious, then why does there need to be a god at all? What can the addition of a god explain, that a conscious universe, alone and by itself, can not explain? How does adding layer upon layer of inexplicable doctrine and mysterious ways bring us any closer to an explanation when the universe itself is right outside the window for all to see, feel, hear, and experience? Why bother with a middleman if you can go directly to the source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 12 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: Please answer my question directly, Ed. It may help you better understand Occam's Razor. If the universe itself is the source of consciousness, if the universe itself is primary consciousness, if the universe itself is conscious, then why does there need to be a god at all? What can the addition of a god explain, that a conscious universe, alone and by itself, can not explain? How does adding layer upon layer of inexplicable doctrine and mysterious ways bring us any closer to an explanation when the universe itself is right outside the window for all to see, feel, hear, and experience? Why bother with a middleman if you can go directly to the source? He can't demonstrate a universal consciousness no more than I. And the surrounding story is unknown unless otherwise demonstrated despite OR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted February 17, 2023 Super Moderator Share Posted February 17, 2023 3 hours ago, Edgarcito said: He can't demonstrate a universal consciousness no more than I. And the surrounding story is unknown unless otherwise demonstrated despite OR. That is all true. Now, please answer the question. Why does there need to be a god if the universe is primary consciousness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 41 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: Why does there need to be a god if the universe is primary consciousness? Because we can't demonstrate a rock has consciousness????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted February 17, 2023 Super Moderator Share Posted February 17, 2023 49 minutes ago, Edgarcito said: Because we can't demonstrate a rock has consciousness????? You also cannot demonstrate that your god has consciousness, Ed. Now, you're more than welcome to ask Josh to support his assertion of a Conscious Universe, same as we demand of you. But that's between you and Josh. What's between you and me is that I asked you a question and you still haven't answered it. In typical fashion you are ignoring it, dodging it, answering around it, doing anything to keep yourself from admitting to the truth that the answer would reveal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterpthefirst Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Edgarcito said: Because we can't demonstrate a rock has consciousness????? This is not about demonstrating anything, Ed. It's about you giving an honest answer to the Prof's question. As you well know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 27 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: You also cannot demonstrate that your god has consciousness, Ed. Now, you're more than welcome to ask Josh to support his assertion of a Conscious Universe, same as we demand of you. But that's between you and Josh. What's between you and me is that I asked you a question and you still haven't answered it. In typical fashion you are ignoring it, dodging it, answering around it, doing anything to keep yourself from admitting to the truth that the answer would reveal. It's not apples to apples as you would wish. Josh is short on answers. Christianity has a story behind it to validate the premise. Josh's is just something....not sure what.....other than souls piloting meat planes. I stand behind my story....Josh needs to witness for his own belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterpthefirst Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Edgarcito said: It's not apples to apples as you would wish. Josh is short on answers. Christianity has a story behind it to validate the premise. Josh's is just something....not sure what.....other than souls piloting meat planes. I stand behind my story....Josh needs to witness for his own belief. It's a one-to-one comparison between Josh's worldview and yours, Ed. Applying Occam's Razor, which one is simpler? Your answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted February 17, 2023 Super Moderator Share Posted February 17, 2023 30 minutes ago, Edgarcito said: Christianity has a story behind it to validate the premise. Josh's is just something....not sure what Yes. Your worldview has a story behind it. Josh's worldview has an entire universe filled with measurable, testable, repeatable evidence. It's much like comparing an apple to an apple-scented scratch'n'sniff sticker. Now, please answer the question. Why does there need to be a god at all, if the universe itself is primary consciousness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted February 17, 2023 Super Moderator Share Posted February 17, 2023 23 minutes ago, Edgarcito said: Josh is short on answers. Says the sumbich that still hasn't answered my question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterpthefirst Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 20 hours ago, Edgarcito said: I'm going with highly improbable, but guess what, it happened just that one time, and bam, a miracle......or at least perceived a miracle. As the Prof has just pointed out Ed, Josh has a universe to provide him with measurable, testable and repeatable evidence. But one time miracles described in the bible cannot be measured, tested or repeated. So, on that basis, his worldview trumps yours. He doesn't have to rely on faith in past events. His worldview gives him evidence... right here and right now. But, that's another matter. Right here and right now, could you please answer the Prof's question? Thank you, Walter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Just now, TheRedneckProfessor said: Says the sumbich that still hasn't answered my question. If we absolutely knew the cause, I don't expect we would need other speculations. I'm the one that said Josh's answer was bs. He should explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 minute ago, walterpthefirst said: As the Prof has just pointed out Ed, Josh has a universe to provide him with measurable, testable and repeatable evidence. But one time miracles described in the bible cannot be measured, tested or repeated. So, on that basis, his worldview trumps yours. He doesn't have to rely on faith in past events. His worldview gives him evidence... right here and right now. But, that's another matter. Right here and right now, could you please answer the Prof's question? Thank you, Walter. Not until Josh comes up with the goods there cowboy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted February 17, 2023 Super Moderator Share Posted February 17, 2023 12 minutes ago, Edgarcito said: He should explain. Indeed he should. And as I've said, that's between you and him. You should explain why a god is even necessary in the first place, if the universe itself is primary consciousness. Please do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: Indeed he should. And as I've said, that's between you and him. You should explain why a god is even necessary in the first place, if the universe itself is primary consciousness. Please do so. I just did and you missed it. If we absolutely knew cause, then we would have no need for why. Which I don't think that in itself would actually solve the issue. If it were purely objective, then someone would still ask how it became objective. Very similar to the never-ending stack of turtles..... or vastness, or infinitely small. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Personally, even if objectivity were nailed down, I don't believe humanity would be happy with that explanation as complete. Just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted February 17, 2023 Super Moderator Share Posted February 17, 2023 24 minutes ago, Edgarcito said: I just did and you missed it. No, Ed. You did not answer the question. You did not explain why a god is necessary if the universe itself is primary consciousness. All you did was provide further speculation by positing a modified "What if..." Your "answer" essentially boils down to if we knew the answer we wouldn't need to ask the question. Your efforts to convolute the issue by adding layers of disingenuous obfuscation only serve to guide you further away from the truth. Please answer the question, Ed. Why is a god even necessary in the first place, if the universe itself is primary consciousness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted February 17, 2023 Super Moderator Share Posted February 17, 2023 26 minutes ago, Edgarcito said: Personally, even if objectivity were nailed down, I don't believe humanity would be happy with that explanation as complete. Just me. We are not discussing objectivity, Ed. We are discussing consciousness. Your attempts to change the subject to distract from your inability, or unwillingness, to answer my question only serves to guide you further away from the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 7 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: We are not discussing objectivity, Ed. We are discussing consciousness. Your attempts to change the subject to distract from your inability, or unwillingness, to answer my question only serves to guide you further away from the truth. You were the one that connected objectivity and consciousness in a previous post. Wast just following your lead. So you're saying consciousness isn't related to objectivity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 hour ago, walterpthefirst said: It's a one-to-one comparison between Josh's worldview and yours, Ed. Applying Occam's Razor, which one is simpler? Your answer? Which IS simpler Walter.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted February 17, 2023 Super Moderator Share Posted February 17, 2023 15 minutes ago, Edgarcito said: You were the one that connected objectivity and consciousness in a previous post. Wast just following your lead. So you're saying consciousness isn't related to objectivity? This is false. I did not connect objectivity to consciousness. I connected objectivity to the measurable, testable, and repeatable evidence that the universe exists. You were, therefore, not following my lead; you were, in fact, attempting to change the subject. You are still attempting to change the subject by positing a question that is irrelevant to the current topic and assumes statements that I never made. If you wish to follow my lead, Ed, you might do so by answering the question I've asked fuckteen thousand times now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: This is false. I did not connect objectivity to consciousness. I connected objectivity to the measurable, testable, and repeatable evidence that the universe exists. You were, therefore, not following my lead; you were, in fact, attempting to change the subject. You are still attempting to change the subject by positing a question that is irrelevant to the current topic and assumes statements that I never made. If you wish to follow my lead, Ed, you might do so by answering the question I've asked fuckteen thousand times now. Then why the fuck did you mention measureable, testable anything to the universe if you weren't connecting objectivity to consciousness.....i.e., Josh's has XXX. Stupid fuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: Yes. Your worldview has a story behind it. Josh's worldview has an entire universe filled with measurable, testable, repeatable evidence. It's much like comparing an apple to an apple-scented scratch'n'sniff sticker. Now, please answer the question. Why does there need to be a god at all, if the universe itself is primary consciousness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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