Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted February 17, 2023 Super Moderator Share Posted February 17, 2023 15 minutes ago, Edgarcito said: Then why the fuck did you mention measureable, testable anything to the universe if you weren't connecting objectivity to consciousness.....i.e., Josh's has XXX. Stupid fuck. Yes. I love you with the love of the lord, too, my brother in christ. Now, please answer the question. Why is a god even necessary in the first place, if the universe itself is primary consciousness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 20 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: Please answer my question directly, Ed. It may help you better understand Occam's Razor. If the universe itself is the source of consciousness, if the universe itself is primary consciousness, if the universe itself is conscious, then why does there need to be a god at all? What can the addition of a god explain, that a conscious universe, alone and by itself, can not explain? How does adding layer upon layer of inexplicable doctrine and mysterious ways bring us any closer to an explanation when the universe itself is right outside the window for all to see, feel, hear, and experience? Why bother with a middleman if you can go directly to the source? So then we go back to this genius....if your universal consciousness doesn't include objectivity, then hence my fucking question.....are you saying that objectivity is not related to consciousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 2 hours ago, Edgarcito said: It's not apples to apples as you would wish. Josh is short on answers. Christianity has a story behind it to validate the premise. Josh's is just something....not sure what.....other than souls piloting meat planes. I stand behind my story....Josh needs to witness for his own belief. I believe Josh's analytic idealism is an experimental philosophy, not a religion where you are coerced to believe or burn in hell. Bernardo Kastrup isn't trying to legislate women's uteruses or pray the gay away. It doesn't really threaten anyone's Christian deconversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterpthefirst Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Edgarcito said: Not until Josh comes up with the goods there cowboy.... Your reply to the Prof's question is not predicated on anything Josh needs to do. Therefore, please reply to the Prof's question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Just now, TheRedneckProfessor said: Yes. I love you with the love of the lord, too, my brother in christ. Now, please answer the question. Why is a god even necessary in the first place, if the universe itself is primary consciousness? Lol, you''re a piece of work man.....or maybe just a piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted February 17, 2023 Super Moderator Share Posted February 17, 2023 Just now, Edgarcito said: So then we go back to this genius....if your universal consciousness doesn't include objectivity, then hence my fucking question.....are you saying that objectivity is not related to consciousness. Do not think for a moment that I will entertain any question from you until you have answered mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 minute ago, midniterider said: I believe Josh's analytic idealism is an experimental philosophy, not a religion where you are coerced to believe or burn in hell. Bernardo Kastrup isn't trying to legislate women's uteruses or pray the gay away. It doesn't really threaten anyone's Christian deconversion. Good, then you won't be worried about flying your meat plane into a gay orgy..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterpthefirst Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Edgarcito said: I just did and you missed it. If we absolutely knew cause, then we would have no need for why. Which I don't think that in itself would actually solve the issue. If it were purely objective, then someone would still ask how it became objective. Very similar to the never-ending stack of turtles..... or vastness, or infinitely small. Nor is this about causes, Ed. It's about who's worldview is simpler, as per Occam's Razor. Yours or Josh's. The Prof has asked you, so please reply to his question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterpthefirst Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 32 minutes ago, Edgarcito said: Which IS simpler Walter.... If you answer the Prof's question honestly then you will discover the answer for yourself. Please do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterpthefirst Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, Edgarcito said: So then we go back to this genius....if your universal consciousness doesn't include objectivity, then hence my fucking question.....are you saying that objectivity is not related to consciousness. This is changing the subject and accusing the Prof of something he never said and never claimed. The concept of universal consciousness is Josh's, not the Prof's. He has not asked you anything about objectivity. He mentioned objectivity in connection with Josh's worldview. But he asked you nothing about objectivity. Instead he has asked you this. Why is a god even necessary in the first place, if the universe itself is primary consciousness? Please answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 7 minutes ago, Edgarcito said: Good, then you won't be worried about flying your meat plane into a gay orgy..... I have to say I liked the 'souls piloting meat planes' thing. lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 14 minutes ago, walterpthefirst said: This is changing the subject and accusing the Prof of something he never said and never claimed. The concept of universal consciousness is Josh's, not the Prof's. He has not asked you anything about objectivity. He mentioned objectivity in connection with Josh's worldview. But he asked you nothing about objectivity. Instead he has asked you this. Why is a god even necessary in the first place, if the universe itself is primary consciousness? Please answer. No Walter, he was bolstering his argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted February 17, 2023 Super Moderator Share Posted February 17, 2023 15 minutes ago, midniterider said: I have to say I liked the 'souls piloting meat planes' thing. lol. Maybe just me, but I think "Meat Plane Soul Pilots" would be an awesome name for a grunge band. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted February 17, 2023 Super Moderator Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Edgarcito said: No Walter, he was bolstering his argument. Which argument was I bolstering? The one where all I did was ask a question without attaching any argument to it at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterpthefirst Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Just now, Edgarcito said: No Walter, he was bolstering his argument. But the two worldviews under the spotlight are yours and Josh's. Not the Prof's. And the Prof asked you a question that pertains to that comparison. Please answer his question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, walterpthefirst said: But the two worldviews under the spotlight are yours and Josh's. Not the Prof's. And the Prof asked you a question that pertains to that comparison. Please answer his question. 24 minutes ago, walterpthefirst said: Why is a god even necessary in the first place, if the universe itself is primary consciousness? Please answer. If the universe were primary consciousness, wouldn't that effectively be "god" anyhow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 8 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: Which argument was I bolstering? The one where all I did was ask a question without attaching any argument to it at all? I just answered with no regard to your position. Your move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted February 17, 2023 Super Moderator Share Posted February 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, Edgarcito said: If the universe were primary consciousness, wouldn't that effectively be "god" anyhow? Thank you. Now we're getting somewhere. I believe Mr. Pantera can take it from this point. @Joshpantera, you have the floor, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterpthefirst Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Edgarcito said: If the universe were primary consciousness, wouldn't that effectively be "god" anyhow? That's not an answer to the given question. That's a new question about the role of god as the primary consciousness. This is the question you were asked. Why is a god even necessary in the first place, if the universe itself is primary consciousness? Your answer needs to address the 'Why?' You therefore need to give a reason why and not pose a new question. Please do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Actually this raises a really cool question imo. Does consciousness have the ability to create, or just subject to it's subjectivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterpthefirst Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Just now, Edgarcito said: Actually this raises a really cool question imo. Does consciousness have the ability to create, or just subject to it's subjectivity. That would have to wait until the issue of who or what the primary consciousness is, is addressed. And since the Prof has yielded to Josh to do this, so will I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 I think it would be pretty cool if everything was just consciousness. That would mean that there was no hierarchy of beings. We'd all be equal. Ed's Jesus sub-personality could not handle being relegated to 'equal' status, though. edit: added 'though' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 12 minutes ago, midniterider said: I think it would be pretty cool if everything was just consciousness. That would mean that there was no hierarchy of beings. We'd all be equal. Ed's Jesus sub-personality could not handle being relegated to 'equal' status, though. edit: added 'though' You're right. There was just a report on the news about a lady suing a university for firing her ass.... pun intended, for being morbidly obese. Following this logic, a 3.7' midget can play quarterback in the NFL under, suing for equality. Don't worry about our nation going to hell, we are there already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ DarkBishop ☆ Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 51 minutes ago, Edgarcito said: If the universe were primary consciousness, wouldn't that effectively be "god" anyhow? Not your God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, DarkBishop said: Not your God +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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