Knowledge vs belief

[◊ Weezer ◊]

5 hours ago, aik said:

Dear weezer, very much of your thoughts here. You can ask further to know how it happens.

 

I will try one more time.  Do you hear God with your ears, like you hear a regular person talking to you?  Please answer, "yes" or "no".

[aik]

3 hours ago, Weezer said:

 

I will try one more time.  Do you hear God with your ears, like you hear a regular person talking to you?  Please answer, "yes" or "no".

No

[◊ Weezer ◊]

42 minutes ago, aik said:

No

Thank you.  I am glad to hear that.

[aik]

5 hours ago, Weezer said:

Thank you.  I am glad to hear that.

Gods speach to his children is more real and powerful than our conversation. When god says something, it is going to happen, even if all your knowledge and experiance believe it will not happen, but it is god who said this. When god speaks iniquity is distroyed, righteousnes is built. When god speaks you will do things which would have never do. When god speaks it is for sure. There is nothing more worth to be trusted than gods word in the universe. People can lie, god is true. 

 

For my years of living by faith there was not a single situation where god lied to me. The only reason why you look at him without trust, it is your heart, which opposes you to him. Try to change this small thing, try to put aside your conflict with god and you will see that even withiut great things done you will see everything in another way. 

 

 

You say you was there? I am in doubt about it. Being religeous is not the same as being a believer. Some practices come from faith and some others come from oblications. So son of man will come to seek faith. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

16 hours ago, aik said:

Dear weezer, very much of your thoughts here. You can ask further to know how it happens.

I still do not understand how it happens.  If you do not hear God talking to you through your ears, how does he talk to you?  Please explain in detail how it happens.

[midniterider]

11 hours ago, aik said:

 When god speaks you will do things which would have never do.

 

So he takes away your free will like he took away Pharaoh's free will.

[midniterider]

11 hours ago, aik said:

 There is nothing more worth to be trusted than gods word in the universe.

 

Then why do you consult the bible and church people to 'make sure' a message is from God?

[aik]

10 hours ago, midniterider said:

 

So he takes away your free will like he took away Pharaoh's free will.

He takes away fears and giveth faith that his children will be able to do good.

[aik]

10 hours ago, midniterider said:

 

Then why do you consult the bible and church people to 'make sure' a message is from God?

Because those who were blind to see that they were just a man who can have mistakes they put there hope on themselves, left the bible, prayer and councle of church, and consulted the devil instead of jesus, that is why some of them became members of this website, like you. And they cry every day that such a bad christianity did not let them to live free. Because their hearts were looking not what of jesus, but they fled after their desires. And finally they found themselves in grabs of satan. And of course changed their faith to reprove themselves. 

 

And these words of mine refers to everyone here who fight against his saviour. 

 

Listen to me, blind and deaf people.

 

In Turkey, for the last 50 years. There was a girl who believed in jesus. Her father said to her either she stops being a christian or he will kill her. She couldn't  satisfied her fathers will of course. Her father took her, he took her cloth off her, bound to a trail and rode her in a village crying out that she was an apostate and whoever wished could do with her whatever she wished. And while he was doing it, one man staying at the gates of his house and watching all this, he paid attention that she were happy during that tribulation. He offered her father to buy her like a slave, and the father sold her for several dollars. He explained that the money will be given to a muslim priest for purification from shame. And the girl was sold to that man. And that man, a new holder, asked her, why she was so happy and smiling when her father was torturing her? She answered that every time when the father bit her or croed bad words about her, she saw how blessings fall down to her from the heaven. And finally that new holder of hers he believed in jesus and brought this testimony in a Turkish church. He told that later her parents also believed in jesus knowing her stedfastness. So this testimony was in a Turkish church, it was heard by one of our brothers in Armenia, who was visiting turkey for ministering the gospel. 

 

 

Another one. A believer in a small russian church was under the press of elders. He was trying to defend another christian, an old woman who had a gift of prophecies, from discounting her in church. Well elders thought that she did evil things to crush the church, and dome other believers told confusing information about her. So it doesn't matter now. One of the church members tried to defend her only told that he knew her and never had mentioned such bad things of her to be done. So just for those words he was restricted in having a communion with the church. But the guy never told a word to defend himself in the case. And later he was restored and now is doing services in the church and has more accounts than many others. 

 

I am asking now. What if that girl did not consult the bible and paid evil against evil? Nothing good would happen then.

 

What if that guy did not pray and consult the holy spirit? Nothing good would happen. 

 

My situation now. I am an office worker. I work at a design company. In 2014 we had a global crisis here, and works started shut down. One after one people left the company. Then directors had to ask employees to leave the firm because of the lack of works. About 80 percent of employees left the firm. I was the ladt one asked to leave the company, but they let me to do this only when i find another place for work. And it was serious to me, a newly made father. So i prayed to God for this issue. And once i understood that i should look for a low grade work. A territory cleaner, load carrier or like these. I graduated from two institutes. And i had to be a director for several years, then i shut my company because of the crisis in 2009, and ghen i started freelance. Then i found this one. And now again a crisis. It was 2016. And now i was lloking another job according to my specialty and get in my prayer that i had to go for a cleaner. At first i started to look for it, and i found one open job of a cleaner in one of construction material markets. Armenians here almost everyone are builders, and they often visit such markets. While i was hesitating i lost the job. I came to a decision that this was not from god, but this was my own thought. Ok. Then i finally found a translation company in another city, with great perspectives for me, just a kob which fit with my specialty as much as it was pissible by that time. I spent on a distant work there a couple of months, but i had problems with getting my salary from them. And once i had to ask the church for help to pay my monthly credit payment. The elders told me at that time separately: aik, you are not called to consume but to give to others. You have to be the one who gives. Go and find a work of a load carrier and have your job. But for now you take what was collected for you.

 

And those words entered into my heart. I remembered when i had a thought to find such a work back in August. So at once i got that this repetition is confirmation of trustworthiness of the revelation. Then i really found a job of a load carfier.  the director looked at my job history, and then raised his eyes on me and asked: can you lift heavy thing? I said, by the will of god i will. So i was instructed and i started the job. My friends, i had never, and i still do not have, such a success like i had during that time. I took my first car, i was physically healthy and very strong and handsome, i was spiritually on the most high point, doing gospel service at every time of my work. So many things happened there, that i cannot forgive those blessings which i had for less then one year. It was really from god. While others of high education suffered from the crisis, i was helping others with money and food. 

 

So it is one of my testimonies, a small one. To some people it means nothing. But the miracle here is that i agreed to go for such a work.it was impossible for me to do so having known myself. 

 

What would happen if i stood in my arrogance and had not consulted the elders? I do not know, but i know for sure that i would lost all the blessing which i had at that time. 

 

Praised be the Lord Jesus. He is faithful. 

 

 

[walterpthefirst]

"Listen to me, blind and deaf people."

 

 

You admitted that testimony supported by independent evidence is more reliable than spoken testimony.

 

Therefore, your words alone do not meet the standard you admitted was more reliable.

 

So why should we listen to you?

 

 

[walterpthefirst]

Walter:

 

Which testimony is more reliable?

The one given by the witness who said he was at the station between 9 and 10?

Or the ones given by the other witnesses and the cameras that say he didn't get there until 10:30?

Which one is more reliable?

Which one is true?

 

aik:

              of course the second one. 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Here you admit that testimony supported by independent evidence (the other witnesses and the camera) is more reliable than spoken testimony on its own.

 

So why are giving us only your spoken testimony?

 

Where is the independent evidence that will cause us to believe you?

 

 

 

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

1 hour ago, aik said:

Because those who were blind to see that they were just a man who can have mistakes they put there hope on themselves, left the bible, prayer and councle of church, and consulted the devil instead of jesus, that is why some of them became members of this website, like you. And they cry every day that such a bad christianity did not let them to live free. Because their hearts were looking not what of jesus, but they fled after their desires. And finally they found themselves in grabs of satan. And of course changed their faith to reprove themselves. 

 

And these words of mine refers to everyone here who fight against his saviour. 

 

Listen to me, blind and deaf people.

 

In Turkey, for the last 50 years. There was a girl who believed in jesus. Her father said to her either she stops being a christian or he will kill her. She couldn't  satisfied her fathers will of course. Her father took her, he took her cloth off her, bound to a trail and rode her in a village crying out that she was an apostate and whoever wished could do with her whatever she wished. And while he was doing it, one man staying at the gates of his house and watching all this, he paid attention that she were happy during that tribulation. He offered her father to buy her like a slave, and the father sold her for several dollars. He explained that the money will be given to a muslim priest for purification from shame. And the girl was sold to that man. And that man, a new holder, asked her, why she was so happy and smiling when her father was torturing her? She answered that every time when the father bit her or croed bad words about her, she saw how blessings fall down to her from the heaven. And finally that new holder of hers he believed in jesus and brought this testimony in a Turkish church. He told that later her parents also believed in jesus knowing her stedfastness. So this testimony was in a Turkish church, it was heard by one of our brothers in Armenia, who was visiting turkey for ministering the gospel. 

 

 

Another one. A believer in a small russian church was under the press of elders. He was trying to defend another christian, an old woman who had a gift of prophecies, from discounting her in church. Well elders thought that she did evil things to crush the church, and dome other believers told confusing information about her. So it doesn't matter now. One of the church members tried to defend her only told that he knew her and never had mentioned such bad things of her to be done. So just for those words he was restricted in having a communion with the church. But the guy never told a word to defend himself in the case. And later he was restored and now is doing services in the church and has more accounts than many others. 

 

I am asking now. What if that girl did not consult the bible and paid evil against evil? Nothing good would happen then.

 

What if that guy did not pray and consult the holy spirit? Nothing good would happen. 

 

My situation now. I am an office worker. I work at a design company. In 2014 we had a global crisis here, and works started shut down. One after one people left the company. Then directors had to ask employees to leave the firm because of the lack of works. About 80 percent of employees left the firm. I was the ladt one asked to leave the company, but they let me to do this only when i find another place for work. And it was serious to me, a newly made father. So i prayed to God for this issue. And once i understood that i should look for a low grade work. A territory cleaner, load carrier or like these. I graduated from two institutes. And i had to be a director for several years, then i shut my company because of the crisis in 2009, and ghen i started freelance. Then i found this one. And now again a crisis. It was 2016. And now i was lloking another job according to my specialty and get in my prayer that i had to go for a cleaner. At first i started to look for it, and i found one open job of a cleaner in one of construction material markets. Armenians here almost everyone are builders, and they often visit such markets. While i was hesitating i lost the job. I came to a decision that this was not from god, but this was my own thought. Ok. Then i finally found a translation company in another city, with great perspectives for me, just a kob which fit with my specialty as much as it was pissible by that time. I spent on a distant work there a couple of months, but i had problems with getting my salary from them. And once i had to ask the church for help to pay my monthly credit payment. The elders told me at that time separately: aik, you are not called to consume but to give to others. You have to be the one who gives. Go and find a work of a load carrier and have your job. But for now you take what was collected for you.

 

And those words entered into my heart. I remembered when i had a thought to find such a work back in August. So at once i got that this repetition is confirmation of trustworthiness of the revelation. Then i really found a job of a load carfier.  the director looked at my job history, and then raised his eyes on me and asked: can you lift heavy thing? I said, by the will of god i will. So i was instructed and i started the job. My friends, i had never, and i still do not have, such a success like i had during that time. I took my first car, i was physically healthy and very strong and handsome, i was spiritually on the most high point, doing gospel service at every time of my work. So many things happened there, that i cannot forgive those blessings which i had for less then one year. It was really from god. While others of high education suffered from the crisis, i was helping others with money and food. 

 

So it is one of my testimonies, a small one. To some people it means nothing. But the miracle here is that i agreed to go for such a work.it was impossible for me to do so having known myself. 

 

What would happen if i stood in my arrogance and had not consulted the elders? I do not know, but i know for sure that i would lost all the blessing which i had at that time. 

 

Praised be the Lord Jesus. He is faithful. 

 

 

 

You have given us a lot of words, but, You still have not described exactly how god speaks to you.  If his speech is not coming into your brain through your ears, how is it coming to you?

[aik]

2 hours ago, Weezer said:

 

You have given us a lot of words, but, You still have not described exactly how god speaks to you.  If his speech is not coming into your brain through your ears, how is it coming to you?

That was an answer to another question. 

[aik]

2 hours ago, Weezer said:

 

You have given us a lot of words, but, You still have not described exactly how god speaks to you.  If his speech is not coming into your brain through your ears, how is it coming to you?

Hearing gods word is a gift from god, it is not from your skills or my skills. A gift from god. Whenever you repent from your sins, from your unbelief, you will have this gift. That simple. A gift can be either accepted or rejected. 

 

Repentence prepares your inside, we call it heart, for having communication with the Lord. The repentence brings you to belief, by which your concience is getting cleansed, by the faith in jesus, and through it your spirit comes to a life. Before it your spirit is not able to communicate with god becausenof sin. But repentence had distroyed that barrier. The spirit is alive. Your spiritual ears the same way become open, and you get understading of the will of god.

[Astreja]

17 minutes ago, aik said:

Hearing gods word is a gift from god, it is not from your skills or my skills. A gift from god. Whenever you repent from your sins, from your unbelief, you will have this gift. That simple. A gift can be either accepted or rejected. 

 

Unbelief is not something that one needs to repent from, Aik.  It is not a conscious action.  It is not a decision.  It is not a "sin."  It is a conclusion that someone's mind has automatically reached after evaluating the available information.

 

I am about a month away from my 66th birthday.  In all those years I have never seen anything sufficiently convincing to dispel my non-belief.  This isn't something that I willed myself to do.  Simply put, when I read the Bible for the first time back in the 1960s, to me it was just a storybook and none of the characters (including Jesus) seemed real to me.

 

They're still just storybook characters to me, 60 years later, and will very likely remain so for the rest of my life.

[aik]

55 minutes ago, Astreja said:

 

Unbelief is not something that one needs to repent from, Aik.  It is not a conscious action.  It is not a decision.  It is not a "sin."  It is a conclusion that someone's mind has automatically reached after evaluating the available information.

 

I am about a month away from my 66th birthday.  In all those years I have never seen anything sufficiently convincing to dispel my non-belief.  This isn't something that I willed myself to do.  Simply put, when I read the Bible for the first time back in the 1960s, to me it was just a storybook and none of the characters (including Jesus) seemed real to me.

 

They're still just storybook characters to me, 60 years later, and will very likely remain so for the rest of my life.

It is a decision

[walterpthefirst]

1 hour ago, aik said:

Hearing gods word is a gift from god, it is not from your skills or my skills. A gift from god. Whenever you repent from your sins, from your unbelief, you will have this gift. That simple. A gift can be either accepted or rejected. 

 

Repentence prepares your inside, we call it heart, for having communication with the Lord. The repentence brings you to belief, by which your concience is getting cleansed, by the faith in jesus, and through it your spirit comes to a life. Before it your spirit is not able to communicate with god becausenof sin. But repentence had distroyed that barrier. The spirit is alive. Your spiritual ears the same way become open, and you get understading of the will of god.

 

Prove what you testify about here with independent evidence.

 

Do that first and then we might believe you.

 

You have admitted that independently verifiable evidence is more reliable than spoken testimony.

 

Now live up to your own words and give us independent evidence.

[walterpthefirst]

29 minutes ago, aik said:

It is a decision

 

Prove that it is a decision with independent evidence.

 

By your own admission, we should not believe you unless you prove your testimony with independent evidence.

 

Why are you asking us to do something that falls short of your own standard?

 

 

[walterpthefirst]

2 hours ago, aik said:

Hearing gods word is a gift from god, it is not from your skills or my skills. A gift from god. Whenever you repent from your sins, from your unbelief, you will have this gift. That simple. A gift can be either accepted or rejected. 

 

But we must first reliably know that there is a gift on offer.

 

And to reliably know that we would need independent evidence that the gift exists.

 

Your testimony alone is not as reliable as testimony supported by independent evidence.

 

So, until we have independent evidence of the existence of the gift we cannot know if it exists or not.

 

Your word alone is not enough, aik.

 

Give us independent evidence to support your testimony and your claims.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

aik, you are still avoiding my question.  Exactly how do Gods words get into your brain?

[Astreja]

8 hours ago, aik said:

It is a decision

 

No, it is not a decision.  I have always found Christian mythology to be utterly unbelievable, especially the nonsense about Jesus coming back from the dead.  I can't "decide" to make that true - it has always been nonsense to me, and I did not decide that.

 

I believe with close to 100% certainty that life after death is impossible, that neither heaven nor hell exist, and that any historical Jesus has been dead and in his grave for close to 2000 years.

[aik]

1 hour ago, Astreja said:

 

No, it is not a decision.  I have always found Christian mythology to be utterly unbelievable, especially the nonsense about Jesus coming back from the dead.  I can't "decide" to make that true - it has always been nonsense to me, and I did not decide that.

 

I believe with close to 100% certainty that life after death is impossible, that neither heaven nor hell exist, and that any historical Jesus has been dead and in his grave for close to 2000 years.

Well, have you ever heard anyone inviting you to believe in jesus who had died for your sons and resurrected from the dead as the bible says?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

1 hour ago, aik said:

Well, have you ever heard anyone inviting you to believe in jesus who had died for your sons and resurrected from the dead as the bible says?

There are several ancient gods who sacrificed themselves for "sins."  Quite a number of them resurrected; and not a few were born of a virgin.  The jesus myth wasn't even new, or original, even in its day.

[aik]

6 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

There are several ancient gods who sacrificed themselves for "sins."  Quite a number of them resurrected; and not a few were born of a virgin.  The jesus myth wasn't even new, or original, even in its day.

Yeah sure. It can be true. You know it better i think. But it does not change the truth. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

8 hours ago, Weezer said:

aik, you are still avoiding my question.  Exactly how do Gods words get into your brain?

 

aik, I am waiting on an answer.