Marriage

[godlessgrrl]

IBF, I think you hit the nail on the head about why marriage is important.

 

Divorce taught me that marriage is primarily a legal contract. Nothing more, nothing less. It may be "just a piece of paper", but that simple piece of paper confers rights on partners like nothing else - and creates responsibilities, too.

 

I now separate the marriage contract from the personal relationship. I could have the personal relationship I have with the spouse without the contract, certainly, and did for over 2 years. I wanted that contract with him too, though, mostly to prevent psycho family members from taking over my body and/or estate under certain circumstances.

 

That little piece of paper is the ticket that says you and another person have created a whole new family unit, with its own legal status, which nobody else can fuck around with. Sure, there's plenty you can accomplish with an attorney, but it isn't enough.

 

I really wish my gay and lesbian friends and relatives could marry too. I don't give a flying fuck what anybody wants to call it - marriage, civil union, homosexual hoo-hah, downfall of all civilization, whatthefuckever - there's so much at stake, it needs to happen. I bet it will. Slowly, but I bet it will.

 

I'm sorry that happened to you, IBF. People can be really just shitty.

[Lycorth]

My first partner died at the age of 29 in a helicopter crash; this happened just one week shy of our eighth anniversary together. I was 19 and he was 21 when we met. His mother and stepfather had disowned him a year before we met because he was gay. He had had no contact with them at all during our eight years together. His biological father dropped out of the picture when he was only eight years old and had not seen or contacted his son in over twenty years. How did this all turn out?

 

Mother, Stepfather and Bio-Father sued for “Wrongful Death” and they were awarded $360,000 for their anguish.

 

Me; the man that stood by his side for eight years trying to undo the mental damage his loving parents had done to him? I got to keep our acquired debts on our cars and credit cards.

 

My current partner and I are currently just a few months shy of our eighth anniversary. We have seen an attorney and spent a small fortune to bind our lives together as best we can, but it comes no where close to what a marriage certificate can do. If he died tomorrow in the same way my first partner did, the same thing could happen again. Marriage creates a legal family relationship, and that is something I desperately want to have. All of the legal papers we have signed ensure that his ‘current’ assets are mine in the event of his death, but they do nothing to ensure that the law recognizes us as family. Only a family member can sue for wrongful death, and as far as the courts are concerned, I am his roommate.

 

Do I want to marry my partner? What do you think?

 

IBF

 

Fuckin' A! You go, IBF

 

The legal, binding relationship is important. If the relationship is good to start out with, that legal status can give a spouse leverage to help or avenge their beloved. One can look out for the other much more effectively if there is legal weight behind their nuptial oaths.

 

Life sucks and is harder than it ought to be sometimes. When I marry my fiancee, we are both going to look out for each other. She and I are the ones we trust most of all to do it. We heterosexuals tend to take this legal element for granted, or because we've been burnt by it, but we ought to keep in mind also that there are folks out there who can't take advantage of something we don't give a thought to - the legal status our marriages afford us.

[pandora]

I had never considered how the legal status of my marriage would change its "feel." It gives social legitimacy as well as legal benefits. I don't know how to describe it.. but I definitely understand why some gay activists insist on the word marriage, and not just a union.

[loves_learning]

I personally think that if religious nutjobs insist on keeping the word "marriage" for themselves b/c of its religious connotations, then the word should be completely removed from all legal documents and laws. If it is religious, it shouldn't be part of our governmental system.

 

If all legal contracts were civil unions (both straight and gay) then perhaps they would stop whining so much. Civil unions of course would have to have the same status as legal marriage at the moment. However, the contract is a legal document to be used by the judicial system. If marriage is in a church, then let it be a ceremony that you may or may not participate in, whatever the couple feels they want to do. It wouldn't give you any more benefits in secular society, it would only be something for a particular church to administer.

[MQTA]

so if one is legally married, but currently separated from the family, it may be beneficial to retain the marriage even with separate lives?

[Guest Emerson]

IBF, what you went through is so sad People can be so cruel. I think we take marriage for granted and we shouldn't. I suppose if you are lucky enough to find a great partner & if you're on the same page then marriage is most definitely an option. I hope you and your current partner have more wonderful years together.

[Lunar Shadow]

I have been married for over 5 years now (for thoes of you who don't know I am married to IvyFairy) I got married fresh out of high school and looking back in some ways I am glad I did in other ways I wish I would have done things differently. We have since had 2 kids (a 4.5 yearold girl and a 10 month old girl). We are not gonna have anymore children (we both got fixed). There have been many problems ups downs an every where in between. I do love my wife but we are Poly that is what we have come to after everything we have been through, and it works for us.

[IvyFairy]

I hate when you jump the gun and I never get to post or tell the story.

[woodsmoke]

I had never considered how the legal status of my marriage would change its "feel." It gives social legitimacy as well as legal benefits. I don't know how to describe it.. but I definitely understand why some gay activists insist on the word marriage, and not just a union.

 

In answer to keeping "marriage" for heterosexual unions, there's a historical concept that explains the problem perfectly.

 

"Seperate but equal."

 

The xenophobes can't base their persecutions on something as obvious as skin color anymore, so they had to look for a more subtle "racial" scapegoat (and I'm only half joking; I'm almost convinced the more paranoid fuckers truly do see homosexuals as being somehow removed from the "main body" of humanity).

 

As for the marriage discussion...

 

I honestly don't know. I tend to agree with the opinion voiced by others, that I'd like to keep my individuality and work out some kind of "seperate and together" arrangement--honestly, I agree 100% with Naburoo's first post, as I'm the same way. I do need some human contact and companionship--the intense sensations of isolation and lonliness I've felt over the past several months are proof of that--but I'm not the world's most social person, and I really do enjoy a fair bit more solitude than most people I know.

 

On the other hand, as I said above, I have been extremely lonely for some time now, and would give just about anything to make that go away. Hell, I have to admit that a good bit of my motivation for going to college this fall is derived from that same loneliness. And it's not like I've ever been in a serious relationship which I see possibly lasting for the rest of my life; I've only truly fallen in love with a girl once, and the closest I ever got to her was letting her borrow my jacket and sit right against me to ward off the chill at a demolition derby. Didn't even have the guts to put my arm around her, despite getting the feeling at the time that was what she was shooting for, and realizing in hindsight I had passed on yet another golden opportunity.

 

.....Excuse me for a moment while I once again withdraw to curse and rant to the night sky about my damned cowardice.

 

 

 

 

 

Back to the topic at hand; that being the case, how the hell should I know how I would handle it were I to actually find myself in such a relationship? Might come up marriage looks like and turns out to be a damn fine idea. Can't really know until I get there.

[The Sage Nabooru]

We are not gonna have anymore children (we both got fixed).

 

Lucky. Try not having any children and not wanting any, and trying to get fixed. No doctor will do it. I can't understand how doctors will do everything in their power to make somebody fertile so they can have children (even instead of simply adopting one), but go cold when asked to sterilize someone. We live in a very pro-childbearing world. Not that there's a problem with that; but people who have made the decision to have no more children or not have children, period need to be recognized as having made legitimate choices.

 

Just a little rant. Now carry on. What were we talking about?

[Lunar Shadow]

We are not gonna have anymore children (we both got fixed).

 

Lucky. Try not having any children and not wanting any, and trying to get fixed. No doctor will do it. I can't understand how doctors will do everything in their power to make somebody fertile so they can have children (even instead of simply adopting one), but go cold when asked to sterilize someone. We live in a very pro-childbearing world. Not that there's a problem with that; but people who have made the decision to have no more children or not have children, period need to be recognized as having made legitimate choices.

 

Just a little rant. Now carry on. What were we talking about?

 

 

Well how old are you? what area of the country do you live in?

 

 

I am here in the San Francisco Bay area (liberal central) and I never got any flack for it they just asked me if I was sure and made me sign a waiver saying that I was not being forced to get snipped. 2 days later I went under the knife a couple days later when the vicodin wore off I was up and about

[trashy]

You and I need to hook up. lol

 

Quick -say something imperfect.

 

Otherwise I'll declare paradise and be right on over there. ;-)

 

you two get a room! LOL

 

I believe the scenario you two are describing already has some existing labels. One would be roommate, the other would be 'fuck buddies'......

 

[phoenix]

We are not gonna have anymore children (we both got fixed).

 

Lucky. Try not having any children and not wanting any, and trying to get fixed. No doctor will do it. I can't understand how doctors will do everything in their power to make somebody fertile so they can have children (even instead of simply adopting one), but go cold when asked to sterilize someone. We live in a very pro-childbearing world. Not that there's a problem with that; but people who have made the decision to have no more children or not have children, period need to be recognized as having made legitimate choices.

 

Just a little rant. Now carry on. What were we talking about?

 

 

Well how old are you? what area of the country do you live in?

 

 

I am here in the San Francisco Bay area (liberal central) and I never got any flack for it they just asked me if I was sure and made me sign a waiver saying that I was not being forced to get snipped. 2 days later I went under the knife a couple days later when the vicodin wore off I was up and about

 

you're also male, and have two children -- that tends to make quite the difference...

[Guest VioletV]

I'm getting married in a few months. I just feel like it's time. No matter how far we say our society has progressed, our "secular" culture still devalues people (and particularly women) who aren't married.

[Guest Faery]

You and I need to hook up. lol

 

Quick -say something imperfect.

 

Otherwise I'll declare paradise and be right on over there. ;-)

 

you two get a room! LOL

 

I believe the scenario you two are describing already has some existing labels. One would be roommate, the other would be 'fuck buddies'......

 

 

Yup we sure do need a room.

[Lunar Shadow]

We are not gonna have anymore children (we both got fixed).

 

Lucky. Try not having any children and not wanting any, and trying to get fixed. No doctor will do it. I can't understand how doctors will do everything in their power to make somebody fertile so they can have children (even instead of simply adopting one), but go cold when asked to sterilize someone. We live in a very pro-childbearing world. Not that there's a problem with that; but people who have made the decision to have no more children or not have children, period need to be recognized as having made legitimate choices.

 

Just a little rant. Now carry on. What were we talking about?

 

 

Well how old are you? what area of the country do you live in?

 

 

I am here in the San Francisco Bay area (liberal central) and I never got any flack for it they just asked me if I was sure and made me sign a waiver saying that I was not being forced to get snipped. 2 days later I went under the knife a couple days later when the vicodin wore off I was up and about

 

you're also male, and have two children -- that tends to make quite the difference...

 

 

 

I have know a few males between the ages of 20 and 30 whom have gotten snipped who have never been married and have no kids and they have had no problem getting it done

[Clearview]

I have know a few males between the ages of 20 and 30 whom have gotten snipped who have never been married and have no kids and they have had no problem getting it done

 

Know of any females? If it were as easy as asking, I'd go have it done tomorrow. No one wants little Clearviews running around. Especially Clearview.

[Guest Faery]

Clearview, are you a guy or a girl? I don't know why but I thought that you were a girl.

[Lunar Shadow]

I have know a few males between the ages of 20 and 30 whom have gotten snipped who have never been married and have no kids and they have had no problem getting it done

 

Know of any females? If it were as easy as asking, I'd go have it done tomorrow. No one wants little Clearviews running around. Especially Clearview.

 

 

Well when it comes to females it is a little more difficult because it requires an open surgery and then recover in the hospital you would have to consult an OBGYN. Where as for men it takes about 15 minutes and all you need is some one to drive you home and a couple days off work so you can stay high on vicodin (man that shit fucks me up)

 

it is much easier for a man to get sniped than a woman. the only reason Ivy did it is because she had a C-section and then she had then tie her off while they were in there to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

[Clearview]

From what I understand, a tubal ligation can be performed as a 30 minute laparoscopic outpatient procedure. Granted, it's more difficult than male sterilization, and there are a few more risks involved (such as ectopic pregnancy) but women, especially younger ones, aren't allowed by doctors to make this informed choice. In case we change our minds or something. This mind isn't changing.

[AgnosticBob AtheistPants]

I was married for 8 years and had two children from that marriage. My ex is a right wing fanatical fundamentalist pentecostal charismatic tongue talking holy rolling southern gospel singing christian. Why did I marry her to begin with? Hmm...broke up with someone I was crazy about probably a month before I met her. I was lonely, young, and stupid. We met, got engaged and got married within 6 months time. I proposed to her a month after meeting her. What an idiot I was. Married for all the wrong reasons.

 

HOWEVER...if there were no other way to have my children (and of course, there is no other way) then I would do it again. My children are the most wonderful thing in my life. They are beautiful and loving and innocent. Now talk to me about this again when they reach their teen years and I may have changed my tune, but for now, I stand by it!

 

Future marriage? HELL NO. There is absolutely no benefit to marrying now. I don't want any more children. I make enough money that marriage is not going to offset taxes enough to worry about it. My company will cover insurance for my partner as long as we live together (if we decided to live together, which we currently do not). I can show my love and devotion to my partner in many more ways than by going through some ridiculous religious ceremony to "prove" to society that I love her. Sure, you can get married without the religious ceremony, but isn't marriage itself a religious institution in its origins?

 

My girlfriend is also not keen on the marriage idea having gone through a divorce recently herself. Her marriage was 16 years though. She also has two kids from her marriage (and they are coming into their teenage years...I see what I have to look forward to...BLECH!)

 

So, we are most decidedly content to be committed to each other by our own word and not by some government enforced document.

[Lunar Shadow]

From what I understand, a tubal ligation can be performed as a 30 minute laparoscopic outpatient procedure. Granted, it's more difficult than male sterilization, and there are a few more risks involved (such as ectopic pregnancy) but women, especially younger ones, aren't allowed by doctors to make this informed choice. In case we change our minds or something. This mind isn't changing.

 

 

Haven't heard about the laproscopic version but then again Ivy was having a C-section anyway so maybe they didn't see it nesesary. :shrugs: but thats nice to know.

[LloydDobler]

I don't see myself ever getting married again, but I'm not closed off to the idea either. I married young as a christian because that's what you do. You search for the one, marry them, have sex with them and that's your family. They complete you and make life wonderful and perfect and blah blah blah. She decided after 10 years that she wanted other men so I let her go.

 

I'll need to be in a relationship with someone for a long time before I make that committment again. Also, I got snipped.

[AtheistMommy]

Also, I got snipped.

 

You do know that is reversable, right?

 

Its totally understandable that you don't want to rush into anything. Not only is it understandable but its natural. I think its a good idea. Sometimes I wonder if I made the right choice.

[Rosa Mystica]

I want very much to get married. I want to formalize my commitment to my partner in a permanent and lasting way. I feel I can't, though:

 

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