MQTA Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Geez, Pug. You believe generations upon generations.... billions upon billions of people... should be sent to a fire pit for eternity because two people were tricked by a snake? Are you in need of some electric shock therapy or something? If they were perfect, they would not have been tricked by a snake or any other being. And I am quite sure that they didn't think god was a dream, according to the story, since he showed up every day and walked around with them. Alot more than what you are getting. Was also even the first animal murderer. The animal didn't die, they were killed for their skins. Now A&E on the other hand, they didn't die. A actually got 850 or so more years out of the deal than any of us do. It's amazing how many people leave childhood holding on to that as a foundation. If someone strongly believes that, is it like talking to someone about alegebra when they think 1+1=3? So back to the original topic. If two perfect people who walked with god are unable to keep from sinning, and human beings who have the holy spirit inside them are incapable of sinning and a blood sacrifice on a cross is incapable of keeping anyone from sinning. How is "sin" a choice? It doesn't appear that anyone, even with divine assistance, can keep from doing it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I get jealous when people say they're sinners. I haven't had a good sin in years What am I missing out on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Was also even the first animal murderer. The animal didn't die, they were killed for their skins. It rimes! Animals are killed for their skins, but humans are killed for their sins! Now A&E on the other hand, they didn't die. A actually got 850 or so more years out of the deal than any of us do. It's amazing how many people leave childhood holding on to that as a foundation. That's an interesting obeservation. They lived longer than us, and they were the ones the screwed up! Why didn't they get harsher punishment? Oh. I see. It works the same way as in the corporate world. If you're a manager and screw up, you get promoted. It's only the little people (us) that have to take the blame! If someone strongly believes that, is it like talking to someone about alegebra when they think 1+1=3? I get jealous when people say they're sinners. I haven't had a good sin in years What am I missing out on? Maybe we got it all backwards? We're not sinning enough! It's not the Holy Spirit we need more of, but the Smirnoff Spirit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruthSeeker Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Agreed. They've created God in their own image...so they can't help but have conflict amongst themselves. As for the concept of sin: I reject it entirely. There is no sin by anyone. We make mistakes. Mistakes are only for correction. That's it. To believe in "sin" is make mistakes worthy of condemantion and thus their reliance upon "salvation." It is absurd. Even some who aren't Christian still believe in "sin." Again, all of it is man-made....how more human can you get than to condemn other's mistakes as requiring punishment eternally...and how more human can you get than to look for "salvation" (where's the consequences for the things you have done?) from another? Personal responsibility is totally lacking in the Christian concept of the world...they can "sin" all they want...then ask for "forgiveness" and by grace with another's blood sacrifice they are "cleansed." Their inner conflicts, and conflicts with each other, point to their beliefs being from man for man....a way to comfort them rather than take responsibility for the things they do. There is no sin. [in essence, they internal conflict and struggle the Church has, is to me the proof that it is man-made. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardAbbey Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 It has probably been a couple of forums since we last discussed the problem of sin. There are two basic Christian ideas concerning the nature of sin. 1. Somehow we have inherited sin that has been passed down from Adam through our parents and their parents and so on and on. This apparently is something like a genetic defect. Sin isn't a genetic defect. It's genetic bullshit. Sin is a primitive myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 As for the concept of sin: I reject it entirely. There is no sin by anyone. We make mistakes. Mistakes are only for correction. That's it. True. And most Christians, heck, most people these days are ordinary folks with day jobs whose biggest sins are probably speeding, or dozing off during the sermon or daydreaming about the football game while in church, or white lies telling their wives their new dresses look good on them when they don't, or something of a similar nature. Or in my case, my mother telling me that I would go to hell for not being thin enough in her eyes, when I was average size and not even fat at all. The vast majority of people are not hardened criminals and probably never will be. And we're supposed to believe that we deserve eternal torture for that kind of stuff? Yeah. Riiiiight. Sheesh. No wonder Christianity gives so many people self-esteem issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skankboy Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 If they were perfect, they would not have been tricked by a snake or any other being. If Adam was perfect in the first place, he wouldn't have been lonely and desired a mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 If Adam was perfect in the first place, he wouldn't have been lonely and desired a mate. And if "god" were perfect, then "he" wouldn't be lonely and require human fellowship and "worship". I think I see a pattern developing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 And if the creation was perfect, God didn't have to add sin to it to test A&E. In essence, the creation was not perfect, and God failed miserably making the world. If the world is not perfect, the there is not argument for Intelligent Design. If there is not argument for ID, then there is no proof of God. It's the poof of God instead! The word "sin" is just a development from the idea of social behaviour, law, ethics and cultural morals. Considering how it must have been for Moses, establishing a law that everyone had to follow, but he had no parlament, judicial system or police force. He had to make the people follow the law, to create stability, without the institutions that we have today. So he invented "sin". You break this law, then you sin against God, and God will punish you. Now you have the tool to make people follow the law, without the need of a police force or a court. Just scare them to obediance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 The word "sin" is just a development from the idea of social behaviour, law, ethics and cultural morals.Considering how it must have been for Moses, establishing a law that everyone had to follow, but he had no parlament, judicial system or police force. He had to make the people follow the law, to create stability, without the institutions that we have today. So he invented "sin". You break this law, then you sin against God, and God will punish you. Now you have the tool to make people follow the law, without the need of a police force or a court. Just scare them to obediance. Aka the perfect mind control system. Well, almost perfect, since some of us have left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Aka the perfect mind control system. Well, almost perfect, since some of us have left. Yup. Like I said for a long time: religion is a political tool, and a system to control the masses. Not to give truth or peace. We left, because we saw behind the veil: the truth; and it set us free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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