for TAP totallyatpeace

[Totallyatpeace]

If you're going to bow out of the thread, then bow out of the thread. If you have other things to do, go do them.

 

If this comment was directed at me, I'll only participate as long as you will. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't really think there is anything to add. I don't like the direction it has taken to catergorize me as a killer and I think it shows that the thread has lost it's focus rather than being a tool to learn from each other. I know that you are not desiring to learn anything from me, but if you go back to the first post in this thread, I was asked questions. I answered them to the best of my ability.

 

Also, I am no better than anyone else and have never felt that I am. (Tifanny's comments) I struggle to get through life and make the same difficult desicions that anyone else does.

 

Thank you for the conversation.

 

 

Tap

[Guest Tiffany]

Also, I am no better than anyone else and have never felt that I am. (Tifanny's comments) I struggle to get through life and make the same difficult desicions that anyone else does.

 

Thank you for the conversation.

Tap

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Anyone who thinks they are good enough to be gifted eternal happiness while people like me burn and feel it was the right thing to do ... "FEEL" that they are better then me.

 

I don't think we ever had the chance to have a conversation but it was nice almost getting the chance.

[Ro-bear]

Anyone who thinks they are good enough to be gifted eternal happiness while people like me burn and feel it was the right thing to do ... "FEEL" that they are better then me.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't think TAP feels she is better than you, Tiffany; I think she believes she has better fire insurance. She owes her salvation not to her own goodness, but to that of the savior she recognizes.

[Guest Tiffany]

I don't think TAP feels she is better than you, Tiffany; I think she believes she has better fire insurance. She owes her salvation not to her own goodness, but to that of the savior she recognizes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Her savior won't recognize her unless she is good enough, and to be good enough she must feel that burning nonbelievers was the right thing to do.

 

So let it be written ... so let it be done.

[Totallyatpeace]

Her savior won't recognize her unless she is good enough, and to be good enough she must feel that burning nonbelievers was the right thing to do.

 

So let it be written ... so let it be done.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Tiffany~

 

That is not what Christianity teaches and if you were taught that, you were taught wrong. Salvation has nothing to do with being good enough.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Dear TAP, this morning I've been thinking about the exchange a page or two back about Jesus' command in Matthew to be perfect as your father in heaven is perfect. In that exchange there was some discussion of how God as represented in the Bible is or is not a model for our behavior. In the last year, a very close friendship of mine collapsed. Part of it was my fault, part of it was my friend's fault, a lot of it was not moral wrongdoing mainly but gradual growing-apart of interests and the difficulty of meshing our weaknesses. Anyway, there were levels where I felt/believed my friend really had acted unjustly toward me. I've calmed down now and accepted it, but for a while I was obsessed with a mixture of grief and anger. Several times I asked myself, OK, how would Jesus react? What did he do when he was betrayed? Within seconds my mind would shift from Jesus to God overall as in the Bible. Then -- I went through this sequence of thoughts three or four times -- I'd say to myself, if I act the way God acts, I'd pour out my righteous wrath upon my friend and send her to punishment FOREVER. I felt I really could understand how God is a literary character with the same emotions as humans but writ larger than life - a more sophisticated version of the Greek gods (Hera gets mad and punishes all sorts of gals who screw around with Zeus, etc.).

 

So I was left thinking, if I really use god's nature as a model for my own, I'll be morally much worse off than if I just cobble together the best response I can manage from inborn human moral sentiment or whatever it is that we have. Don't people say things like, "if you love him/her, let him/her go..." God's way seems to be "decide in the beginning what he/she will do, let him/her blunder around in actions that I've predestined, and then reward or punish him/her for doing the stuff I foreordained." Monstrous, in my opinion, but scriptural, as far as I can see.

 

I still miss the idealism I used to have within Christianity, but rarely now because there's so much dross mixed in with the gold in that religion - or at least, in the texts that religion uses.

 

Have you ever explored branches of Christianity that include "reason" in their rule of faith, like certain Episcopalians or Unitarians or others? Some Episcopalian churches I've been to put their emphasis mostly on trying to live in this world according to love and justice. They pretty much never talk about hell or god's predestination or a lot of other things; they think those parts of the tradition are leftovers from humanity's earlier stages of spiritual development. They believe in a kind of spiritual process of growth that justifies leaving many orthodox Christian doctrines unspoken. INstead they include gays and lesbians, focus on social justice, and things like that.

[Totallyatpeace]

Have you ever explored branches of Christianity that include "reason" in their rule of faith, like certain Episcopalians or Unitarians or others?  Some Episcopalian churches I've been to put their emphasis mostly on trying to live in this world according to love and justice.  They pretty much never talk about hell or god's predestination or a lot of other things;  they think those parts of the tradition are leftovers from humanity's earlier stages of spiritual development.  They believe in a kind of spiritual process of growth that justifies leaving many orthodox Christian doctrines unspoken.  INstead they include gays and lesbians, focus on social justice, and things like that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

To answer your question, I have considered these other denominations but each one requires that you compromise the Word of God.

 

Honesty time again....

 

There are parts of the Bible I really struggle with. Let me use my vegetarian lifestyle as an example. First of all, I am a vegetarian for health reasons but there is part of me that sticks to old testament law regarding pork, shellfish , etc.... But in the new testament it says that we can eat whatever we want as long as we don't offend anybody. Most Christians would say that we are under grace now and all the laws and commandments hang on the two commandments of love God and love your neighbor.

 

If I refer back to other laws of the past such as in the book of Leviticus, I am told that it was cultural and those laws no longer apply. It seems a bit of picking and choosing to me.

 

Fecino, I only bring this up to show you that I actively pursue my faith, but I actively pursue it as a Believer in Jesus Christ. I haven't arrived at any final destination in my faith, nor will I....... and I'm constantly striving to understand.

[Guest Tiffany]

Tiffany~

 

That is not what Christianity teaches and if you were taught that, you were taught wrong. Salvation has nothing to do with being good enough.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What if you don't recognize a sin as being bad, like being gay. But someone else does? Are they not more in touch with the bible and more likely to get into heaven then you?

 

Can you imagine the spectrum of I believe this but don't believe that?

 

I think what I said is pretty accurate.

[NimbusBirdMgp]

... This has been too much to read, and I haven't read most of the Post. Just glancing through them. I'm not sure if any more questions or answers have been directed to me. So if that was so (?) Just wake or wave something at me on it some how.

 

... What I get at the most unusual from Christianity. Which I have known for 36 years.

 

"It's our choice"

 

... But what Christianity is doing is not really offering a respectful answer with that statement. It is a psychological one that says behind it ...

 

"It's your Utimatum. Do with it or not what you like!"

 

... Back in the early 1990's I was watching the Science Fiction from the BBC - Doctor Who. This episode "Keys Of Maranus (?)" Doctor # 1 William Harnall.

 

He lands his Tardis on this planet of land and sea of acid. And His companions go to the inner city to find everyone has been attacked, except this one man, that wanted the help of the Doctor to find his missing keys to a machine of his.

 

The Doctor and his companions didn't want to do it and they left. The Man said "It's your Choice".

 

By the time the Doctor and companions get to the Tardis a force field was placed around it and the Doctor and companions couldn't get in it. Then the Man again announced that he wanted their help finding the keys. That he wasn't going to undo the force field unless they help him. Then again the Man said... "It's your Choice!"

 

... Then the irrony... The Doctor says "What Choice?"

 

I believe the BBC writers where making the same metaphor about the Christian Religion with this. To give an example of that statement they are always offering.

[Totallyatpeace]

What if you don't recognize a sin as being bad, like being gay. But someone else does? Are they not more in touch with the bible and more likely to get into heaven then you?

 

Can you imagine the spectrum of I believe this but don't believe that?

 

I think what I said is pretty accurate

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

There is much I'd like to say about that but I'm not allowed to preach here. Christ takes us just as we are. If anything needs to be changed in us, He reveals it over time.

 

HE reveals it....not the church.

[Guest Dreamer]

TAP if I may pose a question...

 

Out of curiosity which Christian denomination do you belong to? Catholic? Protestant (Lutheran, Baptist, etc.)? Orthodox? Non-denominational?

 

Thanks!

[Totallyatpeace]

Non-denominational---or soon to be.

 

By the way.....what you have written under your avatar has some personal meaning to me.

 

I'm glad you're a truth seeker.

[Jaded]

but there is part of me that sticks to old testament law regarding pork, shellfish , etc....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Mmm....bacon wrapped scallops...

 

Why is it that things taste so good when they are so wrong??

 

Since you're a vegetarian and won't be eating the bacon wrapped scallops you just made the guest list for the ex-c get together. If we ever have one.

[Guest Tiffany]

There is much I'd like to say about that but I'm not allowed to preach here. Christ takes us just as we are. If anything needs to be changed in us, He reveals it over time.

 

HE reveals it....not the church.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But you agree it would have to be changed in order to be good enough to get into heaven ... therefor making anyone who will not change evil, and not worthy of Christ's love ... therefor making you better then me because you changed to meet Christ's demand's and I didn't.

 

So we're back at the beginning then, ... I crush you like grape!

[Guest Dreamer]

Non-denominational---or soon to be.

 

By the way.....what you have written under your avatar has some personal meaning to me.

 

I'm glad you're a truth seeker.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Aw thanks...now you made me feel embarassed (sp?) lol

 

I like researching religions (it's interesting) and I'm fascinated by what different people believe.

 

Gotta run!

[Totallyatpeace]

But you agree it would have to be changed in order to be good enough to get into heaven ...

 

No....I do not agree with that.

 

therefor making anyone who will not change evil, and not worthy of Christ's love ...

 

I also disagree with that.

 

therefor making you better then me because you changed to meet Christ's demand's and I didn't.

 

I am no better than you. I have not changed. I am changing.

 

So we're back at the beginning then, ...  I crush you like grape!   

 

Nope. We're moving forward. 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Gotta run...

[Guest MalaInSe]

There is much I'd like to say about that but I'm not allowed to preach here. Christ takes us just as we are. If anything needs to be changed in us, He reveals it over time.

 

HE reveals it....not the church.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Description of Forum:

 

"This is the section of the board to post Christian opinions, arguments, sermons and so on. Even agressive evangelism will be tolerated in this section of the forum."

 

I don't know how you got the impression you couldn't preach here, but "sermons" and "aggressive evangelism" seem to imply that you can.

 

That being said, if it is your choice not to do so, that's understandable.

[Merlinfmct87]

But you agree it would have to be changed in order to be good enough to get into heaven ... therefor making anyone who will not change evil, and not worthy of Christ's love ... therefor making you better then me because you changed to meet Christ's demand's and I didn't.

 

So we're back at the beginning then, ...  I crush you like grape!   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Knock it off. This kind of shit goes nowhere fast and junt gives the real nutcases more ammo.

 

You want to help yourself out? Learn to choose your targets and words better.

 

Merlin

[♦ ficino ♦]

There is much I'd like to say about that but I'm not allowed to preach here.

 

I thought the "ban" applied only to the Testimonies of Former Christians forum.

[Guest Challenger]

Knock it off. This kind of shit goes nowhere fast and junt gives the real nutcases more ammo.

 

You want to help yourself out? Learn to choose your targets and words better.

 

Merlin

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Right, Merlin.

 

TAP has done nothing to deserve those kind of comments.

 

If anyone feels the need to launch an attack, go after the idea and not get personal about it. Vendettas should be meaningless here.

 

TAP has been demonstrating a lot of of poise, grace and class in this thread. Far more than I would have. . .and I'm a nice guy.

 

I've learned quite a lot from the constant demonstration of her kindness.

 

It would be nice if others did too.

[Merlinfmct87]

Right, Merlin.

 

TAP has done nothing to deserve those kind of comments.

 

If anyone feels the need to launch an attack, go after the idea and not get personal about it.  Vendettas should be meaningless here.

 

TAP has been demonstrating a lot of of poise, grace and class in this thread.  Far more than I would have. . .and I'm a nice guy.

 

I've learned quite a lot from the constant demonstration of her kindness.

 

It would be nice if others did too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Couldn't agree more. I second that whole post. *tips his hat to Challanger*

 

Merlin

[Ro-bear]

Are we ready for our group hug yet?

 

Just the girls; you guys get lost.

[Onyx]

TAP shouldn't be forced to deconvert. If that is not broke, don't fix it. TAP is a good person and should not be forced to be a atheist.

There's a phrase I coined. "Forced atheism is China but unforced atheism is Sweden."

 

You must be like Sweden in order not to deconvert TAP. Let her breathe and make her religious decision.

[Totallyatpeace]

Description of Forum:

 

"This is the section of the board to post Christian opinions, arguments, sermons and so on. Even agressive evangelism will be tolerated in this section of the forum."

 

I don't know how you got the impression you couldn't preach here, but "sermons" and "aggressive evangelism" seem to imply that you can.

 

That being said, if it is your choice not to do so, that's understandable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Mala~

 

I don't know why I assumed that after reading what you just posted. I guess part of it is that I have stated over and over that I was not here to try and bring anyone back to Christianity and so it seems odd for me to post "The Message" for all to read. However, I will --one time--- if asked.

 

I do think there is a lot of scripture that is misunderstood. I will also admit that I don't understand all of it myself.

 

 

Tap

 

 

 

 

Ro-Bear.......you're a nut.

[Guest JP1283]

Are we ready for our group hug yet? 

 

Just the girls; you guys get lost.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I sense some sexual discrimination!