dogmatically_challenged Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Yup. We have yet to see what kind of religions will come out from California! The melting pot of the world. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The Northwest is, in a way, the backyard of California. I like Northern California myself. If I have money I enjoy Sanfransisco and L.A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 The Northwest is, in a way, the backyard of California. I like Northern California myself. If I have money I enjoy Sanfransisco and L.A. I love to visit SF. I used to work for a company and one of our customers were in SF. The company had an apartment in Little Italy, with a view of Alcatraz...Man, do I want to go there again! Walking down the street to the local coffeeshop early Saturday morning... what a feeling... then go down to the Wharf...I can't write more, it's getting a bit emotional here... But to live there, I don't know. LA is ok, it's a bit busy and crowded. But the areas around UCLA can be really fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 I think Amanda that you are evolving and are a free thinker of sorts. Your beliefs are strange to me indeed, but I still respect what is underneath your superstition. That is I respect you even if I can be a little jerk sometimes. hehe. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You recognizing me as a free thinker? Thanks a bunch! You a jerk? NEVER! How could anyone ever say anything like that about you? That is beyond my comprehension! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Hehe! Just ask Euthyphro. I sometimes pick on his deism, but when I am honest I remember that he is using reason to come to his conclusions as well as utilizing his feelings. He is a good egg because he questions things. Right now he is volunteering his time to getting people who are homeless were they need to go in order to eat. He is not like many who only want the spiritual fix that comes from a relationship from god. I have to respect people in thier search for truth and it is hard sometimes and I forget myself. Its true that I don't believe what he believes but I have to respect were he is at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 My apologies. I wasn't clear perhaps. Do you let these comforts get in the way of caring for yourself or other people? Moderate drinking, and even tieing one on from time to time is ok for most but not all. Is imbibing alcohol and eating fatty foods something that everyone must do? Is it a commandment from THE god? Or is it merely a comfort that some people can hack? You may be reading more into my anology. Also, I can fail to say what I mean coherently sometimes. ( I think Madame M and pitchu are very coherent writers. ) No, it is a commmandment from the stomic! Now where did I put my cheesy poofs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Slayer-2004 Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Most fundies will claim that the holy spirit has filled them anyways . I remember when I became christian I believed the HS was in me , and now I realize that its really just a feeling you get from drastically changing ones belief system and thinking that you have got it right . I got the same feeling that I got when I converted when I deconverted . Ironic eh ? As for this , a lot of fundies will simply claim that every other denomination is not the true church and everyone who doesnt believe in their version of dogma is not a true christian . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted June 11, 2005 Author Share Posted June 11, 2005 You wanna know a religion that is HUGE on the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? The Mormons. They live and die by it. It's the Holy Spirit that confirms to them the truthfullness of the "restored gospel of Jesus Christ"; you know, Joseph Smith's wet dream. Christians think the mo's are a false cult and on the highway headed south. Funny thing, this Holy Spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Most fundies will claim that the holy spirit has filled them anyways . I remember when I became christian I believed the HS was in me , and now I realize that its really just a feeling you get from drastically changing ones belief system and thinking that you have got it right . I got the same feeling that I got when I converted when I deconverted . Ironic eh ? As for this , a lot of fundies will simply claim that every other denomination is not the true church and everyone who doesnt believe in their version of dogma is not a true christian . Interesting that you say that, the de-conversion did give me a strong feeling of relief and happiness, just as strong as when I got Christian. I think the whole Holy Spook feeling is originated from our subconscious. The brain has the ability to think about different things at the same time, and it has the ability to act and think like different “people” or identities. This is the explanation to split personality, except for in those cases; the upper cortex (or where ever it’s happening) is not filtering out the “Me” from it all. I believe the HS is just a result of a split-personality situation, and the subconscious have an extraordinary ability to figure things out before our conscious level have grasped it. That’s why the “HS from sub-brain” can talk to “Me high-brain”, and tell me things “I” didn’t know, but all along it was my brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 You wanna know a religion that is HUGE on the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? The Mormons. They live and die by it. It's the Holy Spirit that confirms to them the truthfullness of the "restored gospel of Jesus Christ"; you know, Joseph Smith's wet dream. Christians think the mo's are a false cult and on the highway headed south. Funny thing, this Holy Spirit. And of course the reversed, the hormones believe the other x-insanitans are going to fry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Looking for the origin of the Holy Spirit? Try The Bicameral Mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 WOW! I at least new that these were not Jewish motifs so must be pagan, or at least new ideas that they pulled out of thier butts. And I forgot yesterday, the Jewish religion picked up a lot from Zoroastrianism. That was the first monotheistic (as far as history can show), before the Jews. They had demons, angels, one god (of course) and punishment in a fiery pit, and many other symbols and myths. They believed in the fire as redemption and cleansing. It was pretty strong back then in Persia, and did influence Judaism, but the Jewish religion was of course mixed with other pagan beliefs too. Take for instance the 12 tribes of Israel. Each one of them had a banner, with a symbol. I don’t remember them all, but I remember Judah’s, it was a lion. Lion also symbolizes the sun, and Judah was the only tribe that really survived the mythological stories. The 12 tribes had symbols that matched the months and the zodiac (even though I think it’s an older one, maybe not totally matching to our modern). The months were built on the 28 days cycle, which is the period of the full moon. Doesn’t this show how rules and routines were built on older pagan ideas? It really raises the question, if these religions were not based on pagan beliefs, why the heck did God decide to give Israel 12 tribes with 12 symbols matching the 12 symbols of the old zodiac? There is probably plenty more of this; if someone starts study and investigates they would find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted June 11, 2005 Author Share Posted June 11, 2005 Quite interesting stuff, really. I bet not one christian in 1,000 knows any of this. Here is a couple more: Mithaism - initial rites: sprinkling with the blood of a bull in a "baptism" ritual Therapeut: death to self Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
been borg again Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 I cant rermemeber which ancient historian ( Josephus?) recorded that he saw the curtain inside the Temple ( the one that seperated the Holy-of- Holies) it was covered with the Zodiac signs, I think it was 3 curtians, The first was the Zodiac, the second was the blue ( representing the Firmament, and the third was all red , representing the blood. I once ran across an interesting artical of astrological influence in the Old testament. It showed many examples of the Jewish leaders useing astrology as signs from God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
been borg again Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 by the way, does anywone know why people use babylonian imagery ( like the lion-human headed-angel with the wings) when drwing reproductions of the Ark Of the Covenant, or other illustrations? Does anyone know why an artist would assume babylonian-sumerian influence? does anyone know of historical evidence of the Hebrews useing Sumerian imagery? I dont know where to look for a Primary Source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Quite interesting stuff, really. I bet not one christian in 1,000 knows any of this. Here is a couple more: Mithaism - initial rites: sprinkling with the blood of a bull in a "baptism" ritual Therapeut: death to self That's right. The death and resurrection is one of the oldest symbols of faith and religion. It must have been in the early versions of pagan. It probably started as the initiation routine for boys to become men, and later it was how to meet the gods. If anyone on this site is Indian (I know there is one guy, see if I can PM him and get him involved), they probably could tell us a lot of symbols and rites that would easily be applied to the sacred rituals in church. Take for instance the mythological stories that Joseph Campbell talks about, when he calls them the “Hero’s Journey”, how a person go through a life changing event, by transcendental experiences, and meeting the gods etc. Like Anakin Skywalker goes through life and changes, become evil, and then are freed and become good again. If anyone wonders, the Star Wars story isn’t about the good fighting against the evil. No, it’s the Hero’s Journey of Anakin Skywalker. Take the story of the seed that has to die and then come to life again. That’s the same symbol as being baptized. It’s the same as “being born again”. It’s the same as Jesus die and gets resurrected. The symbol of dying from you old and being born into the new is everywhere. It’s the initiation to the new and holy life. Finally you see the truth. on a sidenote: It's funny that the feeling of "re-birth" came to me just as much when I de-converted as when I converted the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 by the way, does anywone know why people use babylonian imagery ( like the lion-human headed-angel with the wings) when drwing reproductions of the Ark Of the Covenant, or other illustrations?Does anyone know why an artist would assume babylonian-sumerian influence? does anyone know of historical evidence of the Hebrews useing Sumerian imagery? I dont know where to look for a Primary Source. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My Dad used to have all these books about the Babylonian Mystery religions - this was because he believed that the Roman Catholic Church was Babylon in disguise (and that the Pope was the anti-christ) he used to talk about all the similarities between the 'cult of Mary' and a Babylonian Goddess who was always pictured with her son in these Mother and Baby scenes that looked like the Madonna and Child (complete with halo's) I remember looking at one of the books and being really amazed at the similarites - I then noticed that the book showed celtic crosses as well and it suggested that the 'cross' as a religious symbol also predated christianity. I remember that my Dad briefly frowned - said 'I think that's unlikely' and took the book away. I think the sources are out there - (but if you can't find them maybe my Dad hid them ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 My Dad used to have all these books about the Babylonian Mystery religions - this was because he believed that the Roman Catholic Church was Babylon in disguise (and that the Pope was the anti-christ) he used to talk about all the similarities between the 'cult of Mary' and a Babylonian Goddess who was always pictured with her son in these Mother and Baby scenes that looked like the Madonna and Child (complete with halo's) I remember looking at one of the books and being really amazed at the similarites - I then noticed that the book showed celtic crosses as well and it suggested that the 'cross' as a religious symbol also predated christianity. I remember that my Dad briefly frowned - said 'I think that's unlikely' and took the book away. I think the sources are out there - (but if you can't find them maybe my Dad hid them ) Isn’t that so typical our human nature? “Oh, they have pagan symbols but not me!” – And to think that I was like that too… Why would the Celtic have a cross as a symbol? Do you have any recollection to what it symbolized? I’m just curious… Another thought, the Holy Spook influence, just think about the shamans and witch doctors under the influence of spirits. It's just as old. Being in trance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted June 11, 2005 Author Share Posted June 11, 2005 The most amazing book for this stuff that I've run across so far was The Christ Conspiracy, Acharya S. Although I am under the impression that she takes a few liberties with the truth, it is still an astonishing and engrossing book. I had a brief discussion about this book and others with Zoe and Lokmer under General Theological Issues, question for AUB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Isn’t that so typical our human nature? “Oh, they have pagan symbols but not me!” – And to think that I was like that too… Why would the Celtic have a cross as a symbol? Do you have any recollection to what it symbolized? I’m just curious… Another thought, the Holy Spook influence, just think about the shamans and witch doctors under the influence of spirits. It's just as old. Being in trance. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I meant that the style of cross we know as 'celtic' - seemed to appear in Babylonian religions. This said - I guess there are similarities in the style of art I think of as celtic - and some Islamic patterns. So some apparent cross overs could just be coincidental (maybe I see conspiracy theory too much sometimes as well!) Its all to do with the patterns we see - my Dad didn't really approve of art - unless it expressed his world view. No pretty celtic crosses for me growing up - no intricately carved crucifixes either - just plain wooden crosses - that conveyed 'Reformed Evangelical Protestant' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 by the way, does anywone know why people use babylonian imagery ( like the lion-human headed-angel with the wings) when drwing reproductions of the Ark Of the Covenant, or other illustrations?Does anyone know why an artist would assume babylonian-sumerian influence? does anyone know of historical evidence of the Hebrews useing Sumerian imagery? I dont know where to look for a Primary Source. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Excellent question. I can't wait untill I can scrape up more money for some books on the subject. Hopefully someone will give us books or links to answer this. I would kill for edu links since some skeptics of the skeptics worship edu links. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 No, it is a commmandment from the stomic! Now where did I put my cheesy poofs? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well....I am a big time fool for sweets. I am a little chubby. hehe. My stomachs revelations are only commandments to me and no one else. To thine own belly be true! Some people enjoy eating stricly heathy foods and I think thats cool so long as they don't try to take my candy away from me. But I would never push candy on others or choose candy over people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 I guess even the HS can't make sense of the gobbledygook. The HS probably keeps sayin "why the fuck he have to write THAT?" now what am I gonna do? Like I said in another thread. Even Martin Luther couldn't make sense of it. He called the book of James the "Epistle of Straw". Another way to say, "what the fuck, this shit don't add up". I kind of missed the point the first time I read it. That's funny. One of my stories again: Holy Spook - Jake, I want to you write a letter to the Hittites. Jake - Yes Lord, I hear and obey HS - Start with something like "Dear fellow believer, my brothers in faith, the trustworthy Hittites ", or something. J - Ok ... [mumbling and writing] “Dear felons and bewildered, my brothel is failing, they frustrated Woody and hit him.” HS – No, what did you say? I didn’t say that? J – [mumbling and writing] “Yo, what Dido say, ‘A bib and a hat’” HS – Hey, wait here Jake, you are so totally of! Can’t you HEAR me? J – “May weight ear Jay, …”, can you repeat that Holy Spook please? I didn’t hear you. HS – Do you have wax in your spiritual ears? I asked You if You HEAR me? J – That doesn’t sound like what you said at first. It’s a bit hard to hear you. Can you repeat it, please? HS – FUCK! Write whatever you want. It’s going to be screwed up anyway. J – Sorry. Didn’t catch that either… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted June 12, 2005 Author Share Posted June 12, 2005 Oh shit - that was too hilarious. My fuckin side hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 I'm sorry... the short story just came to me, and while I was writing it, I was laughing hard too, and everytime I read it now. It is funny, if I'm allowed to say it myself. SHIT! We had an Earthquake! My room and the house trembled! My wife felt it outside too... So I'm going to check the news... TTFN... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 News: A moderate earthquake with an early magnitude of 5.6 struck at 8:41 this morning six miles southeast of the desert community of Anza. More to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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