Christmas

[sonyaj68]

I swore to myself that I’d never come back to this website again. I went so far as to ask my husband to help me by watching and if he saw me going to this website to remind me to stay away. The reason I wanted to not come back is because I was (still am) so grieved for you and felt helpless. I know better than to try to play “Holy Spirit†- it isn’t up to me to convince you of your need for Christ Christian’s plant the seed, but it is God who gives the increase.

 

However, after this weekend of all our family Christ-centered Christmas celebrations….and after a comment my husband made on the radio Monday*, it really made me wonder….I’d appreciate any honest reply. I’d like to avoid Christian bashing but if you must bash, at least bash me and not Christ who loves you in spite of your non-belief.

 

Here are my questions, all to nom-believers/self-professed exChristians - atheists - etc

 

1. Do you celebrate Christmas with your family?

 

2/; I you answered yes how can you get around that Christmas is a Christian holiday?

 

3 If you answered no, how do you handle things in your community, your children’s schools, co-workiers exchanging gits, Christmas cards, parties, etc. And, do your kids feel left out?

 

 

 

*My husbanhd does the morning show on the locale radio station and he was doing “Santa Trekking†using a website that showed he was at the Great Wall of China (I was on the show with him, do that sometimes when I'm off work which I was today) Rick said, “I didn’t know Santa stopped in commie countries I proceeded to remind about the “secret†missionaries who olive there as well as the few Americans who live there ‘’

 

That silly question made mje wonder if non-Christians celebrate Christmas - and who better to ask?

[RIPw4]

Here are my questions, all to nom-believers/self-professed exChristians - atheists - etc

 

1. Do you celebrate Christmas with your family?

 

2/; I you answered yes how can you get around that Christmas is a Christian holiday?

 

3 If you answered no, how do you handle things in your community, your children’s schools, co-workiers exchanging gits, Christmas cards, parties, etc. And, do your kids feel left out?

 

 

 

 

That silly question made mje wonder if non-Christians celebrate Christmas - and who better to ask?

 

Sorry to burst your bubble darlin but Christians stole Christmas.. it was a pagan holiday long before you guys stole it..(hey, isnt stealing a sin?)

Look up Saturnalia, winter solstice, and pagan celebrations. You will see what I mean.

In fact..Christmas has become en vogue in only the last 100 years or so. Before it wasnt really much of anything. You can thank Coca Cola, not Jesus for the celebration that we know today. It was because of their use of santa as advertisement that got Christmas crack a lackin like it does now..

 

So to answer your question. Yes I celebrate Christmas. I dont have to get around the Jesus thing..the question is how do you get around the pagan thing?

And uh.. Praise Jeebus and all that jazz!

[RedPillAddict]

I swore to myself that I’d never come back to this website again.

Looks like you are a liar.

 

The reason I wanted to not come back is because I was (still am) so grieved for you and felt helpless.

That works both ways. How do you think we feel about you? The same.

It all comes down to facts and evidence, though, and you have neither...so, we win.

Thus, making you out to be the real one in need of grieving.

 

Here are my questions, all to nom-believers/self-professed exChristians - atheists - etc

 

1. Do you celebrate Christmas with your family?

 

2/; I you answered yes how can you get around that Christmas is a Christian holiday?

 

3 If you answered no, how do you handle things in your community, your children’s schools, co-workiers exchanging gits, Christmas cards, parties, etc. And, do your kids feel left out?

 

1. Yes, and most of my family members are aware that I am an Atheist. I even have some Christian family members that know the Bible isn't meant to be taken literally.

2. It's Christmas now...used to be Winter Solstice...Christians stole it. Might be something else in a few hundred years.

We don't sit around praising Jesus. It's Christmas. We swap gifts and eat food.

 

Good Answers for ya here:

[♦ nivek ♦]

Longtime family habit this time of year.

 

No more, very little less.

 

 

kFL

[trashy]

I know better than to try to play “Holy Spirit” - it isn’t up to me to convince you of your need for Christ Christian’s plant the seed, but it is God who gives the increase.

You DO remember the name of this site, right? EX-christian. We know all about the whole Christ thing.

 

1. Do you celebrate Christmas with your family?

yes

 

2/; I you answered yes how can you get around that Christmas is a Christian holiday?

You give gifts, you eat, you enjoy your family. Christians add the whole 'pray and remember the baby Jesus' part, everyone else ignores it, which includes all the other very religious Americans who aren't Christians (Muslims, Jews, etc.)

 

I think others have addressed the pagan origins of Christmas. I can't believe you missed that one somehow...I actually tried to boycott Christmas due to that back when I was a crazy fundamentalist...

[Ouroboros]

1. Do you celebrate Christmas with your family?

No, but we do celebrate the original festivities that Christmas is based upon: Saturnalia. We brought back the old traditions and restored the real Yule in our family. So we celebrate it with a tannenbaum which is based on the Odin Oak, and with presents like the Romans used to do before the Catholic Church stole the idea.

 

2/; I you answered yes how can you get around that Christmas is a Christian holiday?

Because it wasn't originally a Christian holiday. Jesus wasn't even born this time of the year. Why would shepard have sheep out for eating fresh grass on the plains in the middle of the winter?

 

This time of the year used to be celebrated by pagans for the winter solstice when the length of the day is shortest. Look it up. It is not originally a Christian holiday. So how can you live with celebrating a pagan holiday and claim it to be Jesus birth, when most theologians agree it wasn't. (I think it most likely was April, IIRC)

 

3 If you answered no, how do you handle things in your community, your children’s schools, co-workiers exchanging gits, Christmas cards, parties, etc. And, do your kids feel left out?

Again. During the Roman Saturnalia the exchanged gifts. Where in the Bible is Christmas explained and how to celebrate it? Nowhere. It's not a Biblical holiday at all, but invented (or more accurately stolen) by the Church. How does it feel to be part of a theiving religion?

 

*My husbanhd does the morning show on the locale radio station and he was doing “Santa Trekking” using a website that showed he was at the Great Wall of China (I was on the show with him, do that sometimes when I'm off work which I was today) Rick said, “I didn’t know Santa stopped in commie countries I proceeded to remind about the “secret” missionaries who olive there as well as the few Americans who live there ‘’

 

That silly question made mje wonder if non-Christians celebrate Christmas - and who better to ask?

Do you know what kind of mythical characters Santa has got his dress and characteristicts from? Do you know what gnomes (or tomte in Scandinavia) is? Or elvor (=elfs)? They are old pagan creatures and beings, and the gnomes had dresses just like Santa. And in Sweden Santa is called: Tomten, because it came from "tomte" (gnome), and it was a creature that lived under the house and you had to give a gift to during winter in the form of a glass of wine (or milk) and some bread (or cookies)... do you start to see a pattern here? Santa is NOT Christian.

 

So why do you celebrate a pagan holiday, with pagan symbols, and call and pretend there is a mythical character (Santa Claus) during your so called Christian holiday? How can you? Doesn't it bother you to be such a hypocrite?

 

--

 

So this year we celebrated a Pagan tradition, by giving presents to each other from the mythical being Santa (Tomten) and gave each other a greeting of "Good Yule". And we had a Odin tree, but since we can't get an oak, we had to make a little compromise and used a tannenbaum instead. We also ate feast food, like the old Romans did.

 

Good Yule to you all!

 

(Btw, Sonya, how will you celebrate the New Year? Do you think that is a Christian holiday too? If yes, from what? If not, how can you justify celebrating it?)

 

(Oh, another thing, you do know that there are Christians that refuse to celebrate Christmas because they know it was a pagan holiday and refuse to give credit to the "false" gods... I guess you missed the memo...)

[Unknowing1]

I swore to myself that I’d never come back to this website again. I went so far as to ask my husband to help me by watching and if he saw me going to this website to remind me to stay away. The reason I wanted to not come back is because I was (still am) so grieved for you and felt helpless. I know better than to try to play “Holy Spirit†- it isn’t up to me to convince you of your need for Christ Christian’s plant the seed, but it is God who gives the increase.

 

However, after this weekend of all our family Christ-centered Christmas celebrations….and after a comment my husband made on the radio Monday*, it really made me wonder….I’d appreciate any honest reply. I’d like to avoid Christian bashing but if you must bash, at least bash me and not Christ who loves you in spite of your non-belief.

 

Here are my questions, all to nom-believers/self-professed exChristians - atheists - etc

 

1. Do you celebrate Christmas with your family?

 

2/; I you answered yes how can you get around that Christmas is a Christian holiday?

 

3 If you answered no, how do you handle things in your community, your children’s schools, co-workiers exchanging gits, Christmas cards, parties, etc. And, do your kids feel left out?

 

 

 

*My husbanhd does the morning show on the locale radio station and he was doing “Santa Trekking†using a website that showed he was at the Great Wall of China (I was on the show with him, do that sometimes when I'm off work which I was today) Rick said, “I didn’t know Santa stopped in commie countries I proceeded to remind about the “secret†missionaries who olive there as well as the few Americans who live there ‘’

 

That silly question made mje wonder if non-Christians celebrate Christmas - and who better to ask?

 

What in the hell are you doing treking santa? Thought you were supposed to be celebrating the birth of Jesus. It's obvious from your post that you haven't a clue so I'm going to answer your questions and hopefully open your close minded eyes a bit.

 

1.) No, I celebrate Saturnalia, Winter Festivus, friends, family and good will toward others. I do decorate my home using a pegan theme. Colored Christmas lights, evergreen boughs, a tree (probably much the same way you do, funny how you use pagen decorations).

2.) See #1. Christmas is not the original reason for the season. The Xtians stole it from the pagens. So my question to you is how do you get around celebrating Jesus birth on a day that is actually not his birthday (fact they aren't sure when he was born but they know it wasn't December 25th), when there is no mention of Christians being required to celebrate his birth in the Bible and during period of time that pagens celebrate?

3.) I do give greeting cards. Mine are not religious and are along the lines of good wishes for a new year. I do give presents to those that I care for, from what I understand the pagens did also.

 

How narrow minded is your world view....there are other religious holidays during the month of December. Question for you...how do you handle the other religious and non religious celebrations that occur in your community with your children...specifically Hanukah and Kwanzaa? Worry about your own kids, don't worry about mine. I've raised my children to respect the rights of others to celebrate whatever they want, however they want and whenever they want. I can assure you my kids have a much better understanding of the diversity of humanity and respect and caring for others then it would appear from your post that your kids do.

[Deva]

As others have pointed out, Christmas is a pagan holiday. I don't have children, or family close by but if I did there would be no problem for me in celebrating it. I put up a small Christmas tree for myself.

 

As for your motive in coming back to this web site -- Sonya, please save your misplaced concern for someone who needs or appreciates it.

[RedPillAddict]

Maybe thats why she doesn't like coming here...she learns stuff. Not part of the Christian agenda.

 

"Derrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...the Devil created Paganism to trick people into not believing in Jesus, blah blah blah."

[PandaPirate]

Didn't celebrate this year because I got the flu but next year I'm celebrating with Santa and the Amanita. Hell, I might not even wait for Christmas.

 

 

 

[SWIM]

I’d like to avoid Christian bashing but if you must bash, at least bash me and not Christ who loves you in spite of your non-belief.

 

Yeah, he *loves* us so much in spite of our non-belief, that he will burn our asses in hell for all eternity for not believing... Wow if that's love I'd hate to see what he would do if he were pissed...

 

 

Jesus loves you, but his dad thinks your a shit...

[quicksand]

I swore to myself that I’d never come back to this website again. I went so far as to ask my husband to help me by watching and if he saw me going to this website to remind me to stay away. The reason I wanted to not come back is because I was (still am) so grieved for you and felt helpless. I know better than to try to play “Holy Spirit” - it isn’t up to me to convince you of your need for Christ Christian’s plant the seed, but it is God who gives the increase.

I think you are probably a very nice lady that is extremely empathetic toward others. And the fact, that you believe, that your loving GOD rigged the game to send people to HELL to suffer for all eternity with flesh like asbestos embed with a multiplied millions of times nerve endings so the pain and suffering in our flesh will be that many more times imaginable to even us on earth in a body that will not die forever in HELL must make you really sad. Sad enough that serving your god for eternity without freewill in a place in the clouds, doing the work of angels for a an OMNIPOTENT GOD that for some reasons need angels to work done for him is a better, more loving alternative. I also bet that you are so empathetic that when GOD is born as Jesus, and kills himself on the cross after forgetting that HE is HE, you probably cry lots of tears as you happily and greedily eat his flesh and drink his blood in your weekly bloodletting rituals at church.

 

I’d like to avoid Christian bashing but if you must bash, at least bash me and not Christ who loves you in spite of your non-belief.

Christ is an idiot. HE designed the plumbing and the sewer system in one. Christ is incompetent. HIS death solved nothing. Sin still exists. Christ is a liar. HE promised a new kingdom to his disciples after his death. It never came. Where the fuck is it?

 

We will respond to you as we see fit. If you don't like the responses you should not have asked and crying after the fact, or before the fact shows that you have been nothing but sheltered in your faith. As the sermon I listened to yesterday filling through my car radio dail, said it best describing your predicament. "Don't understand, just believe." That would be a great bumper sticker for you.

 

1. Do you celebrate Christmas with your family?

 

2/; I you answered yes how can you get around that Christmas is a Christian holiday?

 

3 If you answered no, how do you handle things in your community, your children’s schools, co-workiers exchanging gits, Christmas cards, parties, etc. And, do your kids feel left out?

1: It's called Christmas around here. But I celebrate family. And so does my family. There are no prayers to baby Jesus. My parents are still Christian, but if they made it a christ thing, they would know they would exclude us (my brother, his wife and me and mine) from the family as a whole. Yes, that's right, your pet religion is exclusive and divisive Sonjia.

 

2: The 12 Days a Christmas is national holiday anthem. Not Away in a Manger.

 

3: I do just fine with the mythology, with all the mythology that is rolled into this time. Only Christians of your ilk use it as a hammer to purge the infidel and tear down the separation of church and state in the culture wars.

 

*My husbanhd does the morning show on the locale radio station and he was doing “Santa Trekking” using a website that showed he was at the Great Wall of China (I was on the show with him, do that sometimes when I'm off work which I was today) Rick said, “I didn’t know Santa stopped in commie countries I proceeded to remind about the “secret” missionaries who olive there as well as the few Americans who live there ‘’

 

That silly question made mje wonder if non-Christians celebrate Christmas - and who better to ask?

Yes, Sonya, at times I feel like I am behind the Great Wall of Christendom. I fear the knives of your persecution and the gallows of this societies contempt toward me. I fear the repression of economic backlash for not literally believing the myths that the Cultural elite, like yourself wield. Yes, Sonya - its a beautiful analogy. Thank you.

[RIPw4]

Didn't celebrate this year because I got the flu but next year I'm celebrating with Santa and the Amanita. Hell, I might not even wait for Christmas.

 

 

 

 

I forgot all about the folks up north eating mushrooms then drinking their piss come winter...I bet they saw all kinds of flying reindeer! lol

[Ouroboros]

Sonya, here's what the online ethymology dictionary says about the word Yule:

 

yule

 

O.E. geol, geola "Christmas Day, Christmastide," from O.N. jol (pl.), a heathen feast, later taken over by Christianity, of unknown origin. The O.E. (Anglian) cognate giuli was the Anglo-Saxons' name for a two-month midwinter season corresponding to Roman December and January, a time of important feasts but not itself a festival. After conversion to Christianity it narrowed to mean "the 12-day feast of the Nativity" (which began Dec. 25), but was replaced by Christmas by 11c., except in the northeast (areas of Danish settlement), where it remained the usual word. Revived 19c. by writers to mean "the Christmas of 'Merrie England.' " First direct reference to the Yule log is 17c. O.N. jol seems to have been borrowed in O.Fr. as jolif, hence Mod.Fr. joli "pretty, nice," originally "festive" (see jolly).

 

In Sweden we celebrate Jul this time of the year, and not Kristen-mässa. And we have done so with the Julträd (Christmas tree) and Julglögg (a special spiced warm alcoholic wine) and Smörgåsbord (yes, that is a Swedish word that Americans borrowed) and Pepparkakor, Lussebullar (oh, those are so good, we make them for Dec 12 to be eaten really early in the morning with glögg), and so on. Unfortunately it's hard to get all this stuff here and do all this, but we try, and most of these traditions are from old non-Christian backgrounds, and that's just a few examples of how us pagan/non-Christian Swedes do our Yule.

 

So you see, Christianity stole Christmas, and now the Non-Christians are taking it back. Get used to it.

[xandermac]

We celebrate family being together on the 25th. Because it is a christian holiday everyone gets off work. That is why we are able to get together. I really don't give a rats ass about who's birthday it is. Fuck your imaginary christ.

[Legion]

1. Do you celebrate Christmas with your family?

Yes

 

2/; I you answered yes how can you get around that Christmas is a Christian holiday?

I just let most of the religious nonsense roll off of me. I tune it out. I don't let it ruin a good time with my family.

[sonyaj68]

Thanks for all the replies, and thanks for not pointing out my horrific typos. You answered my questions and helped me understand your various points of view. Thanks again.

[Open_Minded]

Thanks for all the replies, and thanks for not pointing out my horrific typos. You answered my questions and helped me understand your various points of view. Thanks again.

 

Sonya....

 

*My husbanhd does the morning show on the locale radio station and he was doing “Santa Trekking” using a website that showed he was at the Great Wall of China (I was on the show with him, do that sometimes when I'm off work which I was today) Rick said, “I didn’t know Santa stopped in commie countries I proceeded to remind about the “secret” missionaries who olive there as well as the few Americans who live there ‘’

 

Does your husband honestly refer to China as a "commie country"?

 

If so - does he regularly do it on air?????

[Ouroboros]

Sonya,

 

You're welcome. I hope you look into the complete history of the Yule tradition and that you will see for what it is.

 

And remember, Jesus birthday (if he existed) was not at Christmas time. The theologians are pretty certain about that.

 

Look at the wikipedia here: Christmas and here: Nativity of Jesus/Date of birth

[Ouroboros]

From here: Santa History

 

THE HISTORY OF SANTA CLAUS

 

Santa Claus hasn't always looked like the jolly old fellow we know today. Like so many other American traditions, he's a product of the great American melting pot - a blend of many different cultures and customs. His earliest ancestors date back to pre-Christian days, when sky-riding gods ruled the earth. The mythological characters Odin, Thor, and Saturn gave us the basis for many of Santa's distinctive characteristics.

 

But the most influential figure in the shaping of today's generous as loving Santa Claus was a real man. St. Nicholas of Myra (now Turkey), a fourth century bishop. As a champion of children and the needy, he was legendary for his kindness and generosity.

 

(snip)

 

Immigrants to the New World brought along their various beliefs when they crossed the Atlantic. The Scandinavians introduced gift-giving elves, the Germans brought not only their Belsnickle and Chistkindle but also their decorated trees and the Irish contributed the ancient Gaelic custom of placing a lighted candle in the window.

 

(snip)

 

When Nast was asked to illustrate Moore's charming verse for a book of children's poems, he gave us a softer, kinder Santa who was still old but appeared less stern than the ecclesiastical St. Nicholas. He dressed his elfin figure in red and endowed him with human characteristics. Most important of all, Nast gave Santa a home at the North Pole. For twenty-three years, his annual drawings in Harpers Weekly magazine allowed Americans to peek into the magical world of Santa Claus and set the stage for the shaping of today's merry gentleman.

 

Artist Haddon Sundblom added the final touches to Santa's modern image. Beginning in 1931, his billboard and other advertisements for Coca Cola-Cola featured a portly, grandfatherly Santa with human proportions and a ruddy complexion. Sunblom's exuberant, twinkle-eyed Santa firmly fixed the gift-giver's image in the public mind.

 

St. Nicholas' evolution into today's happy, larger-than-life Santa Claus is a wonderful example of the blending of countless beliefs and practices from around the world. This benevolent figure encompasses all the goodness and innocence of childhood. And because goodness is his very essence, in every kindness we do, Santa will always be remembered.

 

Elves? Thor, Odin? Catholic Saints? Coca-Cola advertising? Yeah, Santa is a purely Christian symbol, just like Jesus. A mish-mash, composite, amalgamated myth from other sources. Very much how Jesus was invented. Santa and Jesus are one.

 

In other words: yes, you're right Sonya, Santa is Christian concept. Just like Santa is a made up mythological character, Jesus is also. Same ol' theme.

[sonyaj68]

I actually was/am aware that the origins of so many of the “Christmas†traditions that we have today (Santa Claus, elves, decorated trees, etc.) were of pagan origin. I also know that Jesus was not born in December. Where I live, which is in a fairly small town in Texas in the Bible belt, if you celebrate Christmas, you are celebrating the birth of Christ – I realize the secular things have nothing to do with the religious or spiritual celebration – but they go together. That’s what prompted my question…if you don’t celebrate the birth of Christ, do you still celebrate Christmas. And several of you gave me great answers that made a lot of sense to me. I wasn’t trying to “trip you up†or make fun of you or what have you – I really wanted to know, and you told me.

 

As far as my husband referring to China as a “commie†country on the air – yes, he does stuff like that occasionally – no big deal, freedom of speech and all that, you know.

[Open_Minded]

As far as my husband referring to China as a “commie” country on the air – yes, he does stuff like that occasionally – no big deal, freedom of speech and all that, you know.

 

Yea... yea..... no big deal at all........

 

It's the Christmas season ...... and you're celebrating the birth of the Prince of Peace ..... and your husband is blathering on about "commie countries".... no big deal at all.... freedom of speech and such....

[Ouroboros]

Awesome Sonya. Good attitude.

 

Last year we still had the nativity scene up, but not this year. We did have the lights on the house and many other decorations in the house. We watched movies, played card games (Munchkin is a fun game) and much more. No deep fried turkey, chicken or ham this year though.

[RedPillAddict]

My family and I like to start out Christmas day by urinating on 4 or 5 churches. Even grandma gets in on it.

Then, we head over to the orphanage with empty boxes that have been wrapped(you should see their faces when they open them!).

After that, we take our pet dog, Lucifer, to the pound. Not to leave him there, but to show the other dogs what freedom looks like.

Then we drop by our local AA and drop off a case of beer.

We go home, eat a big meal, and then open all of the 'Toys for Tots' presents we stole from drop-boxes in the area.

/Sarcasm

 

What the hell do you think we do on Christmas?!

[R. S. Martin]

As far as my husband referring to China as a “commie†country on the air – yes, he does stuff like that occasionally – no big deal, freedom of speech and all that, you know.

 

Yea... yea..... no big deal at all........

 

It's the Christmas season ...... and you're celebrating the birth of the Prince of Peace ..... and your husband is blathering on about "commie countries".... no big deal at all.... freedom of speech and such....

 

 

Whew! The only Christian who joins this Coleseum thread does so in order to make fun of the other Christian, and she goes off-topic to do it. I thought you specialized in interfaith dialogue, OM. Maybe only with nonChristian religions???

 

Sonja, I appreciate your willingness to learn. For me, Christmas is the cultural term for our society's high holiday of the year. It's a time marker, a culture marker. I celebrate with food, with music, by absorbing the general excitement in the air that just comes from everybody feeling excited that it's Christmas. It's subtle but it's there--in the way everybody is hustling to get all the last-minute shopping and preparations and partying and travel done "before the holidays."

 

I don't celebrate with family because when they found out that I deconverted they turned cold. This year I attended the local Humanist Winter Solstice Event. Here's a repost from elsewhere on that:

 

As I've mentioned in various posts, last week I attended a Winter Solstice Event. For the first time in my life I was in a roomful of about a hundred people, all of whom were presumably atheist or agnostic. But all of them were real people just like the people I see around me every day. We had all ages from someone's ten and twelve-year-old daughters to senior citizens. There was a speech and after the speech there was food and chit-chat. It was at least as quiet and orderly as any church fellowship hall during coffee hour. But then, it had to be because people were seated around tables and they each wanted to hear what their table fellows were saying; this was the one time in the year when they could talk about life without fear of reprisal.

 

I don't mention it in this post but the speech was about the similarities between Santa Claus and God. The question was whether belief in Santa leads to atheism. The speaker didn't think so and nobody contradicted him.