agnosticator Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 "The devil is extremely smart," they would declare. "All you can do is plead for the covering of Jeebus' blood when you encounter them (us)." The were right about one thing...if we are the devil, he sure is smart. Ha! The devil is smart, independent, skeptical, and sees through all the bullshit. The bible writers made him into the scapegoat of their delusions. "Even the devil believes" belies the parallel to all atheists and apostates throughout history. He offered us the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. He's the real hero of the bible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagnarus Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 As glad as I am to see him go, he will just see this as a victory for himself. He already believed he was challenging people here. I'm sure he is off bragging to his youth group about how he "got banned because the atheists couldn't handle his deep, thought provoking questions". Probably, but I remember that when I was a Christian I was once told that Christians had to be very careful what got into them through the ear gate and through the eye gate, for obvious reasons. My thought is that just because he never actually engaged in true discussion, doesn't mean that stuff didn't get in through the eye gate. He may have come here, he may have wasted our time, but ultimately he got exposed to stuff which will erode his faith over time. I've personally seen it in the guy who first brought me into Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I still remember how it felt when I evangelized the city. I was frustrated because I got so many questions (like the ones we have on this website) and I could not answer the majority of them. The witnessing class taught us that it was okay to admit that we didn't know if such questions were brought up, but it didn't satisfy me. I had to know the answer. But I could never find the good ones. The answers always relied on some shaky and not so logical foundations. Comparing my feeling then and how I feel now, "witnessing" against Christianity is so much easier. Just think, and you have the answer. Back then, I had to read books to learn the answers, which never were any good ones anyway. Perhaps Amazed will remember these few days in the future, and realize how he wasted his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyone Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I still remember how it felt when I evangelized the city. I was frustrated because I got so many questions (like the ones we have on this website) and I could not answer the majority of them. The witnessing class taught us that it was okay to admit that we didn't know if such questions were brought up, but it didn't satisfy me. I had to know the answer. But I could never find the good ones. The answers always relied on some shaky and not so logical foundations. Comparing my feeling then and how I feel now, "witnessing" against Christianity is so much easier. Just think, and you have the answer. Back then, I had to read books to learn the answers, which never were any good ones anyway. Perhaps Amazed will remember these few days in the future, and realize how he wasted his life. This may sound uncharacteristic, but in all honesty being an atheist means that I don't have all the answers. I don't know how the universe began, although I have some ideas. I don't know how life began, although I have a pretty good idea. So when I, or another atheist, says, "It's ok to say, 'I don't know'" I can understand how a Christian might feel it is acceptable to say, "I don't know." The difference is that I lack knowledge, but they have to face contradiction. Atheism completely eliminated contradiction from my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakefoot Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 This may sound uncharacteristic, but in all honesty being an atheist means that I don't have all the answers. I don't know how the universe began, although I have some ideas. I don't know how life began, although I have a pretty good idea. So when I, or another atheist, says, "It's ok to say, 'I don't know'" I can understand how a Christian might feel it is acceptable to say, "I don't know." The difference is that I lack knowledge, but they have to face contradiction. Atheism completely eliminated contradiction from my life. However, when a atheist says "I don't know" he is not speaking on matters with eternal implications, asking you to become a slave to mythology, or claiming divine authority. Quite a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Shyone, True. I still don't know everything. But, many of the things I didn't know as a Christian, I do know now. But of course, there are even more questions out there that are unanswered. I do however feel there are a lot less of them now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakefoot Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Shyone, True. I still don't know everything. But, many of the things I didn't know as a Christian, I do know now. But of course, there are even more questions out there that are unanswered. I do however feel there are a lot less of them now. And a lot that are no longer valid questions at all, and never really were in the first place. How many angels can dance on the head of a pin.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 How man angels can dance on the head of a pin.... 42. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakefoot Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 How man angels can dance on the head of a pin.... 42. I never really understood the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 How man angels can dance on the head of a pin.... 42. I never really understood the question. Forty-two is the answer, the question is the one you proposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakefoot Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 How man angels can dance on the head of a pin.... 42. I never really understood the question. Forty-two is the answer, the question is the one you proposed. Ford Prefect: "Forty-two! Six millennia and all you come up with is forty-two!" Deep Thought: "I never really understood the question." Thank Bob for Adams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyone Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 This may sound uncharacteristic, but in all honesty being an atheist means that I don't have all the answers. I don't know how the universe began, although I have some ideas. I don't know how life began, although I have a pretty good idea. So when I, or another atheist, says, "It's ok to say, 'I don't know'" I can understand how a Christian might feel it is acceptable to say, "I don't know." The difference is that I lack knowledge, but they have to face contradiction. Atheism completely eliminated contradiction from my life. However, when a atheist says "I don't know" he is not speaking on matters with eternal implications, asking you to become a slave to mythology, or claiming divine authority. Quite a difference. Very true! Still, we shouldn't denigrate the Christian for saying "I don't know." That is the first step on the road to understanding. That sounds like some eastern philosophy. Where have I heard that before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyone Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 The difference is that I lack knowledge, but they have to face contradiction. Wow. You're full of intriguing nuggets of wisdom today. Phanta I'm thinking better today. Last night was a real nightmare. The difference is that I'm calm. I probably need a nap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakefoot Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 This may sound uncharacteristic, but in all honesty being an atheist means that I don't have all the answers. I don't know how the universe began, although I have some ideas. I don't know how life began, although I have a pretty good idea. So when I, or another atheist, says, "It's ok to say, 'I don't know'" I can understand how a Christian might feel it is acceptable to say, "I don't know." The difference is that I lack knowledge, but they have to face contradiction. Atheism completely eliminated contradiction from my life. However, when a atheist says "I don't know" he is not speaking on matters with eternal implications, asking you to become a slave to mythology, or claiming divine authority. Quite a difference. Very true! Still, we shouldn't denigrate the Christian for saying "I don't know." That is the first step on the road to understanding. That sounds like some eastern philosophy. Where have I heard that before? You are, of course, quite correct. And I vastly prefer "I don't know" to some made-up-on-the-fly attempt at apology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraBardus Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 How man angels can dance on the head of a pin.... 42. I never really understood the question. Forty-two is the answer, the question is the one you proposed. Ford Prefect: "Forty-two! Six millennia and all you come up with is forty-two!" Deep Thought: "I never really understood the question." Thank Bob for Adams. No, no. The question is 'What is six by nine?' The universe is base thirteen you know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakefoot Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 How man angels can dance on the head of a pin.... 42. I never really understood the question. Forty-two is the answer, the question is the one you proposed. Ford Prefect: "Forty-two! Six millennia and all you come up with is forty-two!" Deep Thought: "I never really understood the question." Thank Bob for Adams. No, no. The question is 'What is six by nine?' The universe is base thirteen you know... So much for the answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything. I think I will go lay face-down in the dust now; I am feeling wretched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandurian Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 I sacrifice for others based on my religious convictions that what i do in this life will impact my life in the afterlife. Christ commanded it and i do find it personally rewarding and know that such actions please God in whom i will be held accountable to. If there is no afterlife and any accountablity before God how i live here i would not be that motivated to help many outside my family. Its to costly in time and resources if this is all there is. YIKES!!! Dude - you should have quit after this blunder of an admission. How can you start a thread with the purpose of showing the moral high ground of Christianity and then admit that your own motives are not fueled by genuine concern for others? Kudos for being honest though. And of course many good things have been done by Christian organizations. So what is your point? Atheism is not an organization. Oranges and apples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandurian Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 So what is your point? Okay - after a few more seconds of thinking I get it now. It seems that since you must have a 'reward in heaven' concept to act charitably you assume everyone else needs it too. Correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 So what is your point? Okay - after a few more seconds of thinking I get it now. It seems that since you must have a 'reward in heaven' concept to act charitably you assume everyone else needs it too. Correct? zandurian, amazed was booted. It was a fun run though...if you like wanting to reach through your monitor and jack slap someone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 I thought about something I never mentioned earlier, and that is, why is altruism good? Why would any kind of "worldview" be judged by altruism? The old testament doesn't promote it, rather the opposite. God commanding genocide because there is some greater good (according to Christians). So which is it? Obey God and kill people, or do good to everyone? Would a Christian help a dictator who is asking them for help? Would a Christian support a serial killer because they're supposed to be good to everyone? I don't think so. They most likely would not. I see a contradiction here. God commanding genocide because some tribe (supposedly) sacrificed babies. Instead of helping understand and see their faulty ways, God just kill them all (including women and children). Then Jesus comes as tell people they should love their enemies and give them their coat, even walk with with an extra mile. So which God is the good God? The one who commands murder or the one who commands supporting enemies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandurian Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 zandurian, amazed was booted. It was a fun run though...if you like wanting to reach through your monitor and jack slap someone! Maybe the government could mandate actual jack slap monitor arms for anyone who posts fundamentalist views. Then when they say "wrath of God" I could just go "you mean like this?" and hit a preassigned function key *BOOM!*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 zandurian, amazed was booted. It was a fun run though...if you like wanting to reach through your monitor and jack slap someone! Maybe the government could mandate actual jack slap monitor arms for anyone who posts fundamentalist views. Then when they say "wrath of God" I could just go "you mean like this?" and hit a preassigned function key *BOOM!*. Awesome! I want a *BOOM* button! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agnosticator Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I see a contradiction here. God commanding genocide because some tribe (supposedly) sacrificed babies. Instead of helping understand and see their faulty ways, God just kill them all (including women and children). Then Jesus comes as tell people they should love their enemies and give them their coat, even walk with with an extra mile. So which God is the good God? The one who commands murder or the one who commands supporting enemies? Hi Hans, I think one is a sadist, or at least cruel, and the other, a masochist. I also think this side of Jesus isn't about fairness or benevolence, or even selflessness. It makes believers become intentional martyrs and victims for the cause. It's like a dog who always lies down belly up to every other dog in town. I don't see Jesus' advice as a good thing. EDIT: What I see as altruism or selflessness is a concern for the welfare of others without putting ours above theirs. I don't agree with Jesus' example because there is no concern for the other person's welfare-only giving into their selfishness. If they were desperately in need it would be a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dB-Paradox Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Just piping in here....To answer the original question is to look back through history. First, religion is a huge part of modern human history. Several of today's institutions are based on religion, namely Christianity (in our world) because Constatine gave Christianity more power. So, why don't we see more atheist-based charities and the like? Because by pure chance Christianity is the base for modern institutions. But the second part of this answer is...has Christianity done so much good? Looking through history again, we see many horrible things done in the name of Christianity. Christians aren't always the victims here. Just look at the different inquisitions...not exactly an institution of love and generosity, now is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Christianity has a long long record of providing charity and education to countless people through the centuries. What have any atheistic institutions done to help the poor and sick through the centuries? Atheism has not burned witches at the stake. Atheism has not caused children to lie awake crying in their beds because of the fear of hell. Atheism contributes to the development of science by not accepting "goddidit" as an answer for life's mysteries. Atheism supports a scepticism that allows education to transcend basic indoctrination. As for charity... Christianity does not have a monopoly on it. Get over yourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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