OrdinaryClay Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 If millions testify as to the veracity of something this is a form of evidence. So you'll also be advocating for Islam here then. No. It's a myth that believing in any religion is equal to believing in any other religion. Even "if millions testify as to the veracity of" this system of belief? Seems you want your cake while you eat it to me. I said I consider all available evidence - including testimonial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 Seems you want your cake while you eat it to me. Actually, you do have the cake while you're eating it. The problem is rather to eat the cake and having it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 You chose to leave Christianity based on your choices to reject the evidence. . the 'evidence' is lacking. Show me PROOF that this one dead guy, unlike all the rest of the sum total of humanity, didn't stay dead, and there'll be something to talk about. Just to be clear. Do you mean evidence? Proof really only applies to mathematics in the strictest sense. One can not prove many things in history, but one can show evidence pro or con. word games. fuck that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agnosticator Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 World <> USA ? You chose to leave Christianity based on your choices to reject the evidence. There are rational intelligent people who study the subject deeply and came to different conclusions. You choose to consider them wrong. As bdp and Ouroboros said, there is no evidence N.T. Christianity is fact. Rational faith is oxymoronic. Religious faith is a different animal than ordinary faith. I have faith my chair will support me as I type this, but I have no faith in the supernatural. The only choice I made was to follow truth supported by evidence and morality. Fairness, justice, equality, and reciprocity are not valued in the N.T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 CLay, Do you have the holy spirit within you? Yes. If so how long has he been within you? I cannot remember to be honest. Is the holy spirit powerful? Does he have limitations? Yes. He is part of the Trinity so He has the same omni properties as God. Has the holy spirit ever worked any very obvious miracles while within you? Yes. I was told I would need a heart transplant. With in a year my EF was back to normal and I was running 10 miles. That was 14 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 World <> USA ? My comment was about the world. Yours was about the USA. As I said, clearly, there are people who have never been conditioned to accept Christianity and accept Christ as adults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 Yes. I was told I would need a heart transplant. With in a year my EF was back to normal and I was running 10 miles. That was 14 years ago. So you prayed to God for a miracle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 Has the holy spirit ever worked any very obvious miracles while within you? Yes. I was told I would need a heart transplant. With in a year my EF was back to normal and I was running 10 miles. That was 14 years ago. Wow! No doctors or hospitals or medicine or anything, just gawd. That is truly amazing! [/sarcasm] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 Wow! No doctors or hospitals or medicine or anything, just gawd. That is truly amazing! He tested God, and God was okay with that. Funny that only "special" people are allowed to test God. (Vending machine Christians, pfft.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 Can't help but say this thread is now so entertaining I can hardly look at anything else. Clay you are really digging yourself in deep, but you already knew that, right? Clay must make it appear that everyone has rejected Christ by choice. Clay must make it appear that we have rejected Christ despite sound evidence to the contrary, right Clay? Always a fun approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoMuso Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 I was told I would need a heart transplant. With in a year my EF was back to normal and I was running 10 miles. That was 14 years ago. Who told you you would need a heart transplant? Doctors? Who measured your EF? Doctors? And they gave you absolutely no medical care whatsoever? No medication? No exercise program? No dietary changes? No treatment whatsoever? You have probably given so many testimonies of how God "healed" you that you actually believe the lie yourself by now. Who are you trying to kid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brakeman Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 So clay, when you browse through the new testament and you read of jesus or one of the disciples healing someone, what do you think was their criteria on selecting people to heal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 Yes. I was told I would need a heart transplant. With in a year my EF was back to normal and I was running 10 miles. That was 14 years ago. So you prayed to God for a miracle? My mother prayed for decades for god to heal my Juvenile Diabetes, and I'm still a brittle diabetic. I refused prayer b efor e bypass surgery, and still make noise today. Your god has a curious criteria for miracles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brakeman Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 Yeah, Par, But just look at you avatar, you look sooo creepy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 Yeah, Par, But just look at you avatar, you look sooo creepy. It's funny. I was playing with avatars and when I put up Jack I erased the old caption below. "Rationalist" appeared under Jack somehow, and I thought it was so ironic I left it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 Yes. I was told I would need a heart transplant. With in a year my EF was back to normal and I was running 10 miles. That was 14 years ago. So you prayed to God for a miracle? Yes, myself and others. I prayed if it was within His will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 Has the holy spirit ever worked any very obvious miracles while within you? Yes. I was told I would need a heart transplant. With in a year my EF was back to normal and I was running 10 miles. That was 14 years ago. Wow! No doctors or hospitals or medicine or anything, just gawd. That is truly amazing! [/sarcasm] Of course, I accepted medical help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 Wow! No doctors or hospitals or medicine or anything, just gawd. That is truly amazing! He tested God, and God was okay with that. Funny that only "special" people are allowed to test God. (Vending machine Christians, pfft.) I would still worship Him no matter how He had responded. I did not demand anything from Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agnosticator Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 Yes. I was told I would need a heart transplant. With in a year my EF was back to normal and I was running 10 miles. That was 14 years ago. So you prayed to God for a miracle? Yes, myself and others. I prayed if it was within His will. Then everything is God's will, both good and evil, making Him good and evil simultaneously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 I was told I would need a heart transplant. With in a year my EF was back to normal and I was running 10 miles. That was 14 years ago. Who told you you would need a heart transplant? Doctors? Who measured your EF? Doctors? And they gave you absolutely no medical care whatsoever? No medication? No exercise program? No dietary changes? No treatment whatsoever? You have probably given so many testimonies of how God "healed" you that you actually believe the lie yourself by now. Who are you trying to kid? Of course, it was Doctors that provided the diagnosis and the echos. I had an EF of 14% at the lowest point. Yes, I took treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 So clay, when you browse through the new testament and you read of jesus or one of the disciples healing someone, what do you think was their criteria on selecting people to heal? God's glorification. Joh 9:3 (3) Jesus answered, Neither has this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God might be revealed in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brakeman Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 So clay, when you browse through the new testament and you read of jesus or one of the disciples healing someone, what do you think was their criteria on selecting people to heal? So what do you say clay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 Yes. I was told I would need a heart transplant. With in a year my EF was back to normal and I was running 10 miles. That was 14 years ago. So you prayed to God for a miracle? My mother prayed for decades for god to heal my Juvenile Diabetes, and I'm still a brittle diabetic. I refused prayer b efor e bypass surgery, and still make noise today. Your god has a curious criteria for miracles. What caused you to loose your faith, or were you always an atheist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoMuso Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 Of course, I accepted medical help. Okay - so your recovery doesn't meet standard requirements for being declared a miracle. You just believed a miracle into existence - how convenient. Your miracle, like your religion, only exists in your mind. In a church you may get a "hallelujah" response to your "miracle" but on this forum you will only get people like me asking you to please just be honest. You may have convinced yourself, but you haven't convinced me. I say this with the utmost compassion having had similar delusions in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted March 7, 2010 Share Posted March 7, 2010 Yes. I was told I would need a heart transplant. With in a year my EF was back to normal and I was running 10 miles. That was 14 years ago. So you prayed to God for a miracle? Yes, myself and others. I prayed if it was within His will. Then everything is God's will, both good and evil, making Him good and evil simultaneously. Of course not, evil is the result of free willed creatures rejecting the will of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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