JayL Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 I don't consider Islam to be my enemy. I certainly believe some forms of Islam are friggin dangerous. But I like the Sufis. But then I don't consider JayL to be my enemy either. Perhaps not, but you have rejected his precious. Indeed you argue that his precious is not what he thinks it is. If this is just about being accepted as a member of ex-C all JayL has to do is not defend Christianity here. It's really that simple. When the topic comes up just say "Let's agree to disagree". Yet here we are. And he does seem to want to defend it. There could be all sorts of complex reasons why he wants to do this. But here we are. The greatest reason is that I am a believer. Being a believer is not same as 'being a Christian'. If you believe, you really start to experience God. Not easy but it is the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Perhaps not, but you have rejected his precious. Indeed you argue that his precious is not what he thinks it is. Then perhaps he should get over his problem. "The religion itself is based on a false dichotomy; the notion that you must either choose God or reject Him." And he does seem to want to defend it. There could be all sorts of complex reasons why he wants to do this. But here we are. Attacking Islam doesn't defend Christianity. It's not a zero sum game. All that effort went into creating this video just on the word, reject?? Ok, so is it a false dichotomy? Why does one have to believe?? The man in the video said, he cannot believe. Because he has not seen the evidence that will force him to believe. I guess my answer is that he has only a finite time to figure out the truth. God is saying to him, "you cannot figure out the ultimate meaning of your existence. If you are depending on your own intellect alone, because you want to be sure you will not end up well. You need to take a step and believe what I am saying to you. If you only take that first step, things will start to open up. But you DO have to take that step - because otherwise you have only your intellect to guide you. By the way how are your stock picks doing these days?" Another interesting thing he says is that 'God' is just my alter ego. Well, I believe God is benevolent Love, so if 'God is my alter ego', I am doing pretty ok... Ahem.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 All that effort went into creating this video just on the word, reject?? I guess you are going to have to stop damaging yourself before you can understand simple things. Ok, so is it a false dichotomy? Why does one have to believe?? But one doesn't have to believe. The man in the video said, he cannot believe. Because he has not seen the evidence that will force him to believe. I guess my answer is that he has only a finite time to figure out the truth. And darkmatter2525 is way ahead of you. Perhaps if you watch more of his videos you can help yourself catch up a bit. God is saying to him, "you cannot figure out the ultimate meaning of your existence. If you are depending on your own intellect alone, because you want to be sure you will not end up well. You need to take a step and believe what I am saying to you. If you only take that first step, things will start to open up. But you DO have to take that step - because otherwise you have only your intellect to guide you. Is that what your imagination is saying to darkmatter2525? I'm afraid that the only person who can hear your imagination is you. Another interesting thing he says is that 'God' is just my alter ego. Well, I believe God is benevolent Love, so if 'God is my alter ego', I am doing pretty ok... Ahem.. Good for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Nothing happened?? Hmmmm....... Well, I am glad that you did it anyway. I tried it before. It seems like it doesn't work ever. Have any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBluegrassSkeptic Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 So how did slavery get abolished in the western world? Because of some atheists? LOL Perhaps Charles Darwin campaigned against it?? Learn some history, dude. Your 'tolerance oriented' philosopher Voltaire was making money from slave trades!! If it weren't for Christianity, slavery would still be a universal practice. Did I say it was abolished by atheists? You have poor reading comprehension. I am not a dude, either, I am a lady. Christian societies permitted slavery for centuries. That some group of them suddenly started opposing it doesn't mean much. It certainly does not establish the truth of Christianity. You solely lack historical perspectives. You think just because slavery is illegal now, that people opposed in the olden days - perhaps you are assuming people back then were just like you. Thruout human history, slavery was an accepted institution. Everyone practiced it - around the world. Heck, African slaves were still being auctioned off in 1974 !! In Mecca !! Did you know that??? Christians were the first group in history who opposed the slavery and successfully abolished it. That is a historical fact. So I am asking to you, if not Christians, who?? Atheists?? Give me a break. You know what, I have a more important question. Who started the institution of slavery to begin with. I mean the INSTITUTION, not the practice. The ENDING you claim Christianity caused wasn't really intentional. Churches demanded that there would be an end to slavery OF Christians, and since everyone was considered a Christian at that point, it ALMOST completely ended IN THAT PART OF THE WORLD during the 7th century I think. But back to my earlier question, "who started it?", why dear friend it was your ilk that did so. Your sect REINSTITUTED it using the same book your are spouting claims of ending it. Rather ubiquitious I think, don't you? Nicholas V, a papal jerk off in the highest order, said instead to just enslave NON-CHRISTIANS. Furthermore, if it wasn't for Abner Kneeland, a FREETHINKER with a lecture hall available in Boston, William Lloyd Garrison wouldn't have had a place to preach and give his abolitionist speeches in after the churches turned him out of their flocks. And how dare you refuse to acknowlege Robert Ingersoll! Not only did he fight for the Union in the Civil War, he fought slavery tooth and nail more than any Christian hypocrite in the New England states. Christians talked a good game about ending slavery, but when it happend, Jim Crow still managed to find it's way into policy. You, sir, need to educate yourself and quit putting the pedestal higher than where it really is. Who started it? Probably the biggest credit should go to Islam. The big scale African slave trade was started by muslims and continued for several hundred years. Europeans sailed over the African coast and purchased slaves from muslim slave traders already operating there. The biggest hero in ending slave trade in Europe is William Wilberforth. http://en.wikipedia....iam_Wilberforce Compared to Wilberforce, what has Ingersoll done? Not much ! Slavery has been going on SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME by ALL cultures. That is first and foremost. The African slave trade was NOT started by muslims. They were already enslaving their own and others from war. Damn man, seriously get over yourself already! There were Jewish slave traders as well. And either way, Muslims and Christians are from the same religion and God. You can't pick and choose who is in your fold. And last I checked, it wasn't only Islam that was in Africa at the time. Though, granted much of Islam flourished through Africa because of their purchase of slaves that the local African tribes had already collected from spoils of tribal war. Are you forgetting about the enslavement of the Irish as well? How did Islam have anything to do with that? Now you are jumping to ending slavery in Europe? What about America like you were arguing? Stick with your own argument and not jump to different continents. I hope you have better sources than Wiki....they are very unreliable. IMO Ingersoll did a lot for abolishing slavery. He used his pen and speeches to influence many a community's attitude and when you get people on the same page, CHANGE happens. Enslaving non muslims is a part of Islamic theology. That is why there was active slave trading market - trading African slaves - in Mecca - during 1970's. 1970's!!!! Think about that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well still no sources but keep in mind that even during the 1970s, Islam made up about 48% of the population, Christianity about 42%.....so ummm how do you account for it being Muslims again? I can almost guarantee that Christians were holding slaves then too...Oh that's right, THEY STILL ARE TODAY. Can you tell me where are the massive companies in Ghana, Lagos, and Arabia that funded slavery? You can't! But you can find the likes of JP Morgan and Lloyds of London all over the Western world. Right now you can look at millions of Brazilians, Millions of African Americans, millions of African Caribbean, millions of broken communities in West Africa, millions of people in South Africa, every single one of them the product of European systems. Virtually enslaving them by sheer economics. My sources? NEWS, ECONOMIC STUDIES. GETTING OUTSIDE OF MY LITTLE WORLD AND ACTUALLY UNDERSTANDING WHAT IS GOING ON. YOU CAN ALSO GO TO SOMALY.ORG AND GET EVEN MORE INSIGHT AS TO WHAT YOU CLAIM TO BE KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT. Sorry for shouting there, but I would like to see you actually answer a question straight on with demonstrated knowledge, not seemingly made up quotes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Nothing happened?? Hmmmm....... Well, I am glad that you did it anyway. I tried it before. It seems like it doesn't work ever. Have any ideas? Well, there is nothing wrong with keep reading and meditating on the Bible. Psalms is good. So is Ecclesiastes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Well, there is nothing wrong with keep reading and meditating on the Bible. Psalms is good. So is Ecclesiastes. Unless it is a complete waste of time and confuses people. Then there would be something wrong with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 You need a man of faith. Montezuma was a man of faith. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayL Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Enslaving non muslims is a part of Islamic theology. That is why there was active slave trading market - trading African slaves - in Mecca - during 1970's. 1970's!!!! Think about that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's news to me, care to quote a passage? Keep in mind that the OT sanctions slavery and even prohibits Jews enslaving their own so if Islam picked up sanctioning slavery from anywhere, it's the Bible. Also, while I agree that they're somewhat backward, it's not like the US was far ahead, my great grandfather would've been around when they abolished slavery. As recently as the 1950s, Saudi Arabia's slave population was estimated at 450,000 — approximately 20% of the population.[36] It is estimated that as many as 200,000 Sudanese children and women had been taken into slavery in Sudan during the Second Sudanese Civil War.[37][38] Slavery in Mauritania was legally abolished by laws passed in 1905, 1961, and 1981.[39] It was finally criminalized in August 2007.[40] It is estimated that up to 600,000 Mauritanians, or 20% of Mauritania's population, are currently in conditions which some consider to be "slavery", namely many of them used as bonded labour due to poverty.[41] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 My recommendation for skeptics and atheists is to keep searching and to keep an open mind. You may yet find the true God - the God who embodies Love. And you will be so glad on that day!!! God bless you. Don't count on it. What makes you more satisfied with life than me? I'm pretty satisfied right now. If there was ever a god, it isn't the god as portrayed through christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Nothing happened?? Hmmmm....... Well, I am glad that you did it anyway. I tried it before. It seems like it doesn't work ever. Have any ideas? Well, there is nothing wrong with keep reading and meditating on the Bible. Psalms is good. So is Ecclesiastes. Hmm... Did that for over 30 years. Didn't help. Any other ideas? Wait? Are you saying that God won't do anything unless I start pretending it is true first? Is your religion something like sugar pill things? If you believe in it, then it works, but if you don't it won't? Sorry to say then, I don't believe in your sugar pills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Well, there is nothing wrong with keep reading and meditating on the Bible. Psalms is good. So is Ecclesiastes. Unless it is a complete waste of time and confuses people. Then there would be something wrong with it. Consider that I've done it already, and I'm still here at this point of my life--a non believer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts