In Between Churches

[mymistake]

Hell is nothing but ABSENCE OF GOD. Some people say no to God and there is nothing God can do. He has to respect their choice.

 

You contradict the Bible. Revelation says that people will be tortured in the presence of the lamb. Hey it's not big deal. The Bible is wrong about a lot of things.

[agnosticator]

But think about all the enemies ( sinners ) He saved!!!!

 

Few are chosen, narrow is the way, and wide is the path that leads to the destruction of 99.999% of all beings that ever have lived and will live.

[agnosticator]

Hell is nothing but ABSENCE OF GOD.

 

Absence makes the heart grow fonder...or is it that Hell is nothing, therefore it doesn't exist? We are in the absence of the biblegod right now...Hell is better than I thought it'd be!

[Grasshopper]

Hell is nothing but ABSENCE OF GOD. Some people say no to God and there is nothing God can do. He has to respect their choice.

 

That's not what the bibul says, Jay, and you know it. Again, here's a clear example where your rational, humane conscience is in conflict with the cruel tenets of your religion. So you come up with a novel definition of hell hoping to split the difference. It doesn't work. You're making up bullshit, wrapping it around other made up bullshit, and then pretending it smells rosy.

 

Just let it go, Jay. You'll be a lot happier for it.

[NotBlinded]

because god loves his enemies so much that there is a hell for non-believers?

 

because god loves his enemies so much that the holy fire consumes the two idiots that tried to cheat the church money?

 

because god loves his enemies so much that it rained fire and brimstone on sodom and whatever shit?

 

because god loves his enemies so much that his angel of death killed all the 1st borns of eygpt?

 

halle-fucking-jah for a fucking loving god.

 

 

 

But think about all the enemies ( sinners ) He saved!!!!

That's like saying a rapist loves women...just look at all the women he didn't rape.

 

On another note, all mythologies have the forces of good and evil. There's a reason for that.

[Astreja]

Nobody is perfect before God. Everyone has made mistakes and has committed sins.

Putting aside for a moment the fact that there is no actual evidence for your god...

 

...Your alleged god is a pathetically weak entity if it cannot tolerate imperfection.

 

And it's truly a sick puppy if it needs people to accept a blood sacrifice in order to not torment them for eternity.

 

How can you look at yourself in the mirror, Jay? You are attempting to defend something so barbaric, primitive and hideous that it is completely indefensible and unconscionable. Worse, you have the unmitigated gall to call this mythological mindfuck "love."

 

I suggest that you pick one individual of your acquaintance -- Just one -- Someone whom you know does not believe as you do, and whom you think is destined for Hell. Please spend the next 7 days meditating on the suffering that your alleged god plans to inflict upon them, in every possible sensory detail, and imagine yourself witnessing all this from the comfort of heaven.

[TheBluegrassSkeptic]

So how did slavery get abolished in the western world? Because of some atheists? LOL Perhaps Charles Darwin campaigned against it?? Learn some history, dude. Your 'tolerance oriented' philosopher Voltaire was making money from slave trades!! If it weren't for Christianity, slavery would still be a universal practice.

 

Did I say it was abolished by atheists? You have poor reading comprehension. I am not a dude, either, I am a lady.

 

Christian societies permitted slavery for centuries. That some group of them suddenly started opposing it doesn't mean much. It certainly does not establish the truth of Christianity.

 

 

 

You solely lack historical perspectives. You think just because slavery is illegal now, that people opposed in the olden days - perhaps you are assuming people back then were just like you.

 

Thruout human history, slavery was an accepted institution. Everyone practiced it - around the world. Heck, African slaves were still being auctioned off in 1974 !! In Mecca !! Did you know that???

 

Christians were the first group in history who opposed the slavery and successfully abolished it. That is a historical fact.

 

So I am asking to you, if not Christians, who?? Atheists?? Give me a break.

 

You know what, I have a more important question. Who started the institution of slavery to begin with. I mean the INSTITUTION, not the practice.

 

The ENDING you claim Christianity caused wasn't really intentional. Churches demanded that there would be an end to slavery OF Christians, and since everyone was considered a Christian at that point, it ALMOST completely ended IN THAT PART OF THE WORLD during the 7th century I think.

 

But back to my earlier question, "who started it?", why dear friend it was your ilk that did so. Your sect REINSTITUTED it using the same book your are spouting claims of ending it. Rather ubiquitious I think, don't you?

 

Nicholas V, a papal jerk off in the highest order, said instead to just enslave NON-CHRISTIANS.

 

Furthermore, if it wasn't for Abner Kneeland, a FREETHINKER with a lecture hall available in Boston, William Lloyd Garrison wouldn't have had a place to preach and give his abolitionist speeches in after the churches turned him out of their flocks. And how dare you refuse to acknowlege Robert Ingersoll! Not only did he fight for the Union in the Civil War, he fought slavery tooth and nail more than any Christian hypocrite in the New England states. Christians talked a good game about ending slavery, but when it happend, Jim Crow still managed to find it's way into policy.

 

You, sir, need to educate yourself and quit putting the pedestal higher than where it really is.

[TheBluegrassSkeptic]

I was thinking more like, 'Love your enemies. ( i.e. Christian believers should have NO enemies. ) Do good to those who persecute you. Do not pay back evil for evil. Be benevolent to all people. Treat other people as you want to be treated. Love your neighbors as yourself.' These are great moral teachings!!

 

They are. And they are not unique to Christianity, which is something many Christians apparently are not aware of. Have you studied other religions and culture's beliefs, even just a survey?

 

 

The Universality of the Golden Rule in the World Religions

 

 

Christianity All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye so to them; for this is the law and the prophets.

Matthew 7:1

 

Confucianism Do not do to others what you would not like yourself. Then there will be no resentment against you, either in the family or in the state.

Analects 12:2

 

Buddhism Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.

Udana-Varga 5,1

 

Hinduism This is the sum of duty; do naught onto others what you would not have them do unto you.

Mahabharata 5,1517

 

Islam No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself.

Sunnah

 

 

Judaism What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellowman. This is the entire Law; all the rest is commentary.

Talmud, Shabbat 3id

 

Taoism Regard your neighbor’s gain as your gain, and your neighbor’s loss as your own loss.

Tai Shang Kan Yin P’ien

 

Zoroastrianism That nature alone is good which refrains from doing another whatsoever is not good for itself.

Dadisten-I-dinik, 94,5

 

 

The Golden Rule predates Christianity, and in fact likely came about as pre-humans evolved in groups and each individual had to live with norms that protected each other and optimized each other's life (protecting and caring for each other, fairness, etc)

 

 

 

Note that under Islam the Golden Rule and the reciprocity is LIMITED TO FELLOW MUSLIMS (brothers, fellow believers ) ONLY. That is why they can kill 'infidels' and 'idolators' with impunity. One can even read Judaism similarly. Does fellowman mean fellow Jews? Or does it include goyims as well?? But in Islam, it is clear. Their Golden Rule does NOT extend to non muslims.

 

Other religions are fine.

You do realize that Islam and Judaism come from the same family right? The Abrahamic family? And this split came from another common religion. Even the Bible quotes God as saying he comes out of Egypt, as in his ORIGINS are from Egypt. That is why I KNOW with 100% certainty, that Christianity is wrong on so many levels.

 

If a magical skyman came to earth tomorrow, I guaran-damn-tee you, none would make it into his fold. You idol worshippers need to understand that these holy books are just recounts of ages gone by. They are ancient rag mags and reprints of old laws. Nothing more. Respect them? Sure, why not, they have interesting tales within their covers. Live by them? On a metaphorical level? Sure, knock yourself out. But really, let go of the delusion. Why can't you just accept the fact we are simply a by product of an unintelligent event? Seriously, the ego in the room is getting a bit thick for me.

[JayL]

Hell is nothing but ABSENCE OF GOD. Some people say no to God and there is nothing God can do. He has to respect their choice.

 

You contradict the Bible. Revelation says that people will be tortured in the presence of the lamb. Hey it's not big deal. The Bible is wrong about a lot of things.

 

 

Revelation is really hard to understand. It is better to leave the book alone.

[JayL]

 

Soaring moral teachings ... failed to change people ( or Israel ) to any great degree.

 

 

Soaring moral teachings?

 

Oh right, like 'turn the other cheek' and 'forgive those who persecute you' right? I'll pass that on to a friend of mine. She's currently stuck in an abusive relationship with a tyrant of a husband who beats her regularly. Most normal and moral people would say that she should get out of such a relationship immediately and report the guy to the police. However, I'll tell her that according to Jesus, she should carry on 'turning the other cheek' (quite literally) and continue to forgive him for everything, no matter how appallingly he treats her.

 

What else have we got? Well I was always amused by Jesus' promotion of thought crime in Matthew 5:21-30. Yeah, being angry with someone or having lustful feelings towards someone are enough to convict you of murder and adultery respectfully, which are enough to condemn you to the flames of hell for eternity. Yes, I can see why Jesus won so many followers with that teaching! And furthermore, it's always rather amused me that the passage on lust is instantly followed by Jesus teaching that if your right hand should cause you to sin, you should cut it off and throw it away. Surely it is biblical then to cut off the hands of any normal teenage boy on the planet!

 

What other nonsense can we find. Well, how about Luke 14:26, where Jesus says that no-one can follow him unless they hate their own family and even their own life. Again, I can see why this great morality won people over! But I would emphasise more Matthew 5:17-19, where Jesus explicitly endorses all the crap in the Old Testament. You know, the hating of gays, no eating of shellfish, not cutting hair at the side of the head, killing your children if they're disrespectful to you, etc etc etc.

 

Oh and let's not forget the 'eye for an eye' teaching as well. Christians praise Jesus so much for speaking out against this policy of revenge. But they conveniently forget that it was God who supposedly set it up in the first place, through the law of Moses. A law which Jesus firmly endorses, as I mentioned above! The inconsistency and sheer stupidity is hilarious!

 

 

 

I was thinking more like, 'Love your enemies. ( i.e. Christian believers should have NO enemies. ) Do good to those who persecute you. Do not pay back evil for evil. Be benevolent to all people. Treat other people as you want to be treated. Love your neighbors as yourself.' These are great moral teachings!!

 

Ummm...now I'm confused Jay!

 

In another thread you wrote...

"You along with many people failed to understand the meaning of term 'repent'. It means change in thinking. It is not behavioral."

 

So what you're actually saying is that these are soaring moral teachings provided they stay just as thoughts and you don't act on them, yes? That a Christian who truly repents simply has to keep on thinking about Jesus and his soaring moral teachings, without putting any of them into practice? No changes in lifestyle, morality, ethics or behavior are needed?

 

Therefore, a true Christian doesn't actually have to love his/her enemies by sharing their food with them - all they have to do is to think about Jesus and His great moral teachings?

 

A Christian doesn't actually have to do good to those persecuting them - all they have to do is to think certain thoughts?

 

Ditto paying good back for evil, being benevolent to people, treating others as they want to be treated, loving their neighbors as themselves?

 

Hmmm....

 

So now we know who the true Christians are.

 

They're the ones who don't love their enemies, who don't do good to those persecuting them, who pay back evil for evil, who aren't benevolent to all, who want others to treat them as special and who don't love their neighbors as themselves.

 

Thanks for opening our eyes to the truth, buddy!

 

BAA.

 

 

You are thinking yourself into a pretzel. I was talking about how a person obtains his salvation in Christ. It is done by faith in Christ alone. Not by moral works.

 

But now, having been saved, having a new life, those Christ like qualities - his moral teachings and how Jesus behaved in his life - can be manifested by Christians.

[JayL]

But think about all the enemies ( sinners ) He saved!!!!

 

Few are chosen, narrow is the way, and wide is the path that leads to the destruction of 99.999% of all beings that ever have lived and will live.

 

 

In most people's thinking, to claim that Jesus is the ONLY way to salvation seems very 'narrow minded'. So 'narrow is the gate'. Yet millions and millions of people are being saved.

[JayL]

Hell is nothing but ABSENCE OF GOD.

 

Absence makes the heart grow fonder...or is it that Hell is nothing, therefore it doesn't exist? We are in the absence of the biblegod right now...Hell is better than I thought it'd be!

 

 

Right now, I believe God is sustaining your life functions. When the time comes, your life function will run its course and you will expire. Then your soul would separate from your body and will go - either to the presence of God or away from the presence of God.

[JayL]

Nobody is perfect before God. Everyone has made mistakes and has committed sins.

Putting aside for a moment the fact that there is no actual evidence for your god...

 

...Your alleged god is a pathetically weak entity if it cannot tolerate imperfection.

 

And it's truly a sick puppy if it needs people to accept a blood sacrifice in order to not torment them for eternity.

 

How can you look at yourself in the mirror, Jay? You are attempting to defend something so barbaric, primitive and hideous that it is completely indefensible and unconscionable. Worse, you have the unmitigated gall to call this mythological mindfuck "love."

 

I suggest that you pick one individual of your acquaintance -- Just one -- Someone whom you know does not believe as you do, and whom you think is destined for Hell. Please spend the next 7 days meditating on the suffering that your alleged god plans to inflict upon them, in every possible sensory detail, and imagine yourself witnessing all this from the comfort of heaven.

 

 

God is NOT inflicting pain upon them. But if they say no to God, God has to respect their decision. They shall go into 'absence of God' and they will experience horror.

 

 

There is a simple way out. Just say Yes to God - the God of the New Testament, the God who embodies love. Just say, "Lord Jesus, thank you for forgiving my sins. I accept your salvation that was accomplished on the cross"

 

Now how hard is that??

[pratt]

its hard when i have not done anything wrong that DEMANDS someone to die a horrible death for me because the requirements of an IMMORAL god,,,

 

 

[JayL]

So how did slavery get abolished in the western world? Because of some atheists? LOL Perhaps Charles Darwin campaigned against it?? Learn some history, dude. Your 'tolerance oriented' philosopher Voltaire was making money from slave trades!! If it weren't for Christianity, slavery would still be a universal practice.

 

Did I say it was abolished by atheists? You have poor reading comprehension. I am not a dude, either, I am a lady.

 

Christian societies permitted slavery for centuries. That some group of them suddenly started opposing it doesn't mean much. It certainly does not establish the truth of Christianity.

 

 

 

You solely lack historical perspectives. You think just because slavery is illegal now, that people opposed in the olden days - perhaps you are assuming people back then were just like you.

 

Thruout human history, slavery was an accepted institution. Everyone practiced it - around the world. Heck, African slaves were still being auctioned off in 1974 !! In Mecca !! Did you know that???

 

Christians were the first group in history who opposed the slavery and successfully abolished it. That is a historical fact.

 

So I am asking to you, if not Christians, who?? Atheists?? Give me a break.

 

You know what, I have a more important question. Who started the institution of slavery to begin with. I mean the INSTITUTION, not the practice.

 

The ENDING you claim Christianity caused wasn't really intentional. Churches demanded that there would be an end to slavery OF Christians, and since everyone was considered a Christian at that point, it ALMOST completely ended IN THAT PART OF THE WORLD during the 7th century I think.

 

But back to my earlier question, "who started it?", why dear friend it was your ilk that did so. Your sect REINSTITUTED it using the same book your are spouting claims of ending it. Rather ubiquitious I think, don't you?

 

Nicholas V, a papal jerk off in the highest order, said instead to just enslave NON-CHRISTIANS.

 

Furthermore, if it wasn't for Abner Kneeland, a FREETHINKER with a lecture hall available in Boston, William Lloyd Garrison wouldn't have had a place to preach and give his abolitionist speeches in after the churches turned him out of their flocks. And how dare you refuse to acknowlege Robert Ingersoll! Not only did he fight for the Union in the Civil War, he fought slavery tooth and nail more than any Christian hypocrite in the New England states. Christians talked a good game about ending slavery, but when it happend, Jim Crow still managed to find it's way into policy.

 

You, sir, need to educate yourself and quit putting the pedestal higher than where it really is.

 

 

Who started it? Probably the biggest credit should go to Islam. The big scale African slave trade was started by muslims and continued for several hundred years. Europeans sailed over the African coast and purchased slaves from muslim slave traders already operating there.

 

The biggest hero in ending slave trade in Europe is William Wilberforth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wilberforce Compared to Wilberforce, what has Ingersoll done? Not much !

[JayL]

its hard when i have not done anything wrong that DEMANDS someone to die a horrible death for me because the requirements of an IMMORAL god,,,

 

 

God is not like you and me. Take look at the universe we live in. It is mostly empty and extremely inhospitable to humans. Would we create a universe like the one we see?? I do not think so!!!

[pratt]

what the fuck are you talking about universe when i am talking about immoral god that killed 1st borns and drowning of the worlds population except noah,,,,

[bornagainathiest]

 

Soaring moral teachings ... failed to change people ( or Israel ) to any great degree.

 

 

Soaring moral teachings?

 

Oh right, like 'turn the other cheek' and 'forgive those who persecute you' right? I'll pass that on to a friend of mine. She's currently stuck in an abusive relationship with a tyrant of a husband who beats her regularly. Most normal and moral people would say that she should get out of such a relationship immediately and report the guy to the police. However, I'll tell her that according to Jesus, she should carry on 'turning the other cheek' (quite literally) and continue to forgive him for everything, no matter how appallingly he treats her.

 

What else have we got? Well I was always amused by Jesus' promotion of thought crime in Matthew 5:21-30. Yeah, being angry with someone or having lustful feelings towards someone are enough to convict you of murder and adultery respectfully, which are enough to condemn you to the flames of hell for eternity. Yes, I can see why Jesus won so many followers with that teaching! And furthermore, it's always rather amused me that the passage on lust is instantly followed by Jesus teaching that if your right hand should cause you to sin, you should cut it off and throw it away. Surely it is biblical then to cut off the hands of any normal teenage boy on the planet!

 

What other nonsense can we find. Well, how about Luke 14:26, where Jesus says that no-one can follow him unless they hate their own family and even their own life. Again, I can see why this great morality won people over! But I would emphasise more Matthew 5:17-19, where Jesus explicitly endorses all the crap in the Old Testament. You know, the hating of gays, no eating of shellfish, not cutting hair at the side of the head, killing your children if they're disrespectful to you, etc etc etc.

 

Oh and let's not forget the 'eye for an eye' teaching as well. Christians praise Jesus so much for speaking out against this policy of revenge. But they conveniently forget that it was God who supposedly set it up in the first place, through the law of Moses. A law which Jesus firmly endorses, as I mentioned above! The inconsistency and sheer stupidity is hilarious!

 

 

 

I was thinking more like, 'Love your enemies. ( i.e. Christian believers should have NO enemies. ) Do good to those who persecute you. Do not pay back evil for evil. Be benevolent to all people. Treat other people as you want to be treated. Love your neighbors as yourself.' These are great moral teachings!!

 

Ummm...now I'm confused Jay!

 

In another thread you wrote...

"You along with many people failed to understand the meaning of term 'repent'. It means change in thinking. It is not behavioral."

 

So what you're actually saying is that these are soaring moral teachings provided they stay just as thoughts and you don't act on them, yes? That a Christian who truly repents simply has to keep on thinking about Jesus and his soaring moral teachings, without putting any of them into practice? No changes in lifestyle, morality, ethics or behavior are needed?

 

Therefore, a true Christian doesn't actually have to love his/her enemies by sharing their food with them - all they have to do is to think about Jesus and His great moral teachings?

 

A Christian doesn't actually have to do good to those persecuting them - all they have to do is to think certain thoughts?

 

Ditto paying good back for evil, being benevolent to people, treating others as they want to be treated, loving their neighbors as themselves?

 

Hmmm....

 

So now we know who the true Christians are.

 

They're the ones who don't love their enemies, who don't do good to those persecuting them, who pay back evil for evil, who aren't benevolent to all, who want others to treat them as special and who don't love their neighbors as themselves.

 

Thanks for opening our eyes to the truth, buddy!

 

BAA.

 

 

You are thinking yourself into a pretzel. I was talking about how a person obtains his salvation in Christ. It is done by faith in Christ alone. Not by moral works.

 

But now, having been saved, having a new life, those Christ like qualities - his moral teachings and how Jesus behaved in his life - can be manifested by Christians.

 

Thank you for that clarification Jay.

 

But now I'm confused afresh by something else you've written.

 

JayL wrote..."Revelation is really hard to understand. It is better to leave the book alone."

 

When you first arrived here, we all thought that as a "True" Christian, you'd be advocating the whole of the Bible as God's word. Then you said we could drop the Old Testament. Now you're saying that we should forget about Revelation too.

 

So, my questions to you are these...

 

1.

Should we also ditch any passages in the Gospels, the Book of Acts and the Epistles that refer to sinners burning in Hell forever?

 

2.

Where (in what's left of the Bible) does it say that the damned go to the, "absence of God", rather than to heaven?

 

3.

Are there any other bits that we should cut out, now that we've got our scissors ready?

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[mymistake]

Hell is nothing but ABSENCE OF GOD. Some people say no to God and there is nothing God can do. He has to respect their choice.

 

You contradict the Bible. Revelation says that people will be tortured in the presence of the lamb. Hey it's not big deal. The Bible is wrong about a lot of things.

 

 

Revelation is really hard to understand. It is better to leave the book alone.

 

 

Revelation is very easy to understand. It's simple. If you would only use the elegant solution you would find the Bible is incredibly easy to understand. The reason you find Revelation hard to understand is because you are trying to force Revelation to be something it isn't.

[TheBluegrassSkeptic]

So how did slavery get abolished in the western world? Because of some atheists? LOL Perhaps Charles Darwin campaigned against it?? Learn some history, dude. Your 'tolerance oriented' philosopher Voltaire was making money from slave trades!! If it weren't for Christianity, slavery would still be a universal practice.

 

Did I say it was abolished by atheists? You have poor reading comprehension. I am not a dude, either, I am a lady.

 

Christian societies permitted slavery for centuries. That some group of them suddenly started opposing it doesn't mean much. It certainly does not establish the truth of Christianity.

 

 

 

You solely lack historical perspectives. You think just because slavery is illegal now, that people opposed in the olden days - perhaps you are assuming people back then were just like you.

 

Thruout human history, slavery was an accepted institution. Everyone practiced it - around the world. Heck, African slaves were still being auctioned off in 1974 !! In Mecca !! Did you know that???

 

Christians were the first group in history who opposed the slavery and successfully abolished it. That is a historical fact.

 

So I am asking to you, if not Christians, who?? Atheists?? Give me a break.

 

You know what, I have a more important question. Who started the institution of slavery to begin with. I mean the INSTITUTION, not the practice.

 

The ENDING you claim Christianity caused wasn't really intentional. Churches demanded that there would be an end to slavery OF Christians, and since everyone was considered a Christian at that point, it ALMOST completely ended IN THAT PART OF THE WORLD during the 7th century I think.

 

But back to my earlier question, "who started it?", why dear friend it was your ilk that did so. Your sect REINSTITUTED it using the same book your are spouting claims of ending it. Rather ubiquitious I think, don't you?

 

Nicholas V, a papal jerk off in the highest order, said instead to just enslave NON-CHRISTIANS.

 

Furthermore, if it wasn't for Abner Kneeland, a FREETHINKER with a lecture hall available in Boston, William Lloyd Garrison wouldn't have had a place to preach and give his abolitionist speeches in after the churches turned him out of their flocks. And how dare you refuse to acknowlege Robert Ingersoll! Not only did he fight for the Union in the Civil War, he fought slavery tooth and nail more than any Christian hypocrite in the New England states. Christians talked a good game about ending slavery, but when it happend, Jim Crow still managed to find it's way into policy.

 

You, sir, need to educate yourself and quit putting the pedestal higher than where it really is.

 

 

Who started it? Probably the biggest credit should go to Islam. The big scale African slave trade was started by muslims and continued for several hundred years. Europeans sailed over the African coast and purchased slaves from muslim slave traders already operating there.

 

The biggest hero in ending slave trade in Europe is William Wilberforth. http://en.wikipedia....iam_Wilberforce Compared to Wilberforce, what has Ingersoll done? Not much !

Slavery has been going on SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME by ALL cultures. That is first and foremost. The African slave trade was NOT started by muslims. They were already enslaving their own and others from war. Damn man, seriously get over yourself already! There were Jewish slave traders as well. And either way, Muslims and Christians are from the same religion and God. You can't pick and choose who is in your fold. And last I checked, it wasn't only Islam that was in Africa at the time. Though, granted much of Islam flourished through Africa because of their purchase of slaves that the local African tribes had already collected from spoils of tribal war. Are you forgetting about the enslavement of the Irish as well? How did Islam have anything to do with that?

 

Now you are jumping to ending slavery in Europe? What about America like you were arguing? Stick with your own argument and not jump to different continents. I hope you have better sources than Wiki....they are very unreliable.

 

IMO Ingersoll did a lot for abolishing slavery. He used his pen and speeches to influence many a community's attitude and when you get people on the same page, CHANGE happens.

[Grasshopper]

There is a simple way out. Just say Yes to God - the God of the New Testament, the God who embodies love. Just say, "Lord Jesus, thank you for forgiving my sins. I accept your salvation that was accomplished on the cross"

 

Now how hard is that??

 

Recite the following:

 

"I bear witness that there is no god but, Allah, and I bear witness that Mohammad is the messenger of Allah."

 

There. Now how hard was that?

[par4dcourse]

Ever notice you never see Thumb and Jay together? Same smarmy preaching, same circular logic (if any). Of course it can be said that all christ-tards are like that but still..........

[agnosticator]

....So 'narrow is the gate'. Yet millions and millions of people are being saved.

 

I bet you can't present any statistics to back up that comment. Only God knows the heart, so you have no basis for your opinion.

[agnosticator]

Hell is nothing but ABSENCE OF GOD.

 

Absence makes the heart grow fonder...or is it that Hell is nothing, therefore it doesn't exist? We are in the absence of the biblegod right now...Hell is better than I thought it'd be!

 

 

Right now, I believe God is sustaining your life functions. When the time comes, your life function will run its course and you will expire. Then your soul would separate from your body and will go - either to the presence of God or away from the presence of God.

 

So hell is "away from the presence of God"? That would be nowhere, or here on earth. Thumbelina says you are a soul, not to be confused with having a "soul" or ghost to separate from the body. Who should I believe? I better pray for the right answer!*sarcasm*

 

Once again, your Christian opinion is meaningless without the Bible backing it up 100%. But if the biblegod magically allows me to live, while a starving baby is allowed to starve to death, what does that say about the biblegod?

[Astreja]

God is NOT inflicting pain upon them. But if they say no to God, God has to respect their decision. They shall go into 'absence of God' and they will experience horror.

And so your god sits there for eternity and does nothing, in the name of some bogus "free will" that they never actually had because your god knew that would be their fate, and pretends that it "has to respect their decision."

 

Bullshit! Your alleged god holds the power and is therefore 100% responsible for any suffering it causes. Jay, you worship a god of infinite evil... And worse, you're making excuses for it. You should be deeply, deeply ashamed of yourself.

There is a simple way out. Just say Yes to God - the God of the New Testament, the God who embodies love. Just say, "Lord Jesus, thank you for forgiving my sins. I accept your salvation that was accomplished on the cross"... Now how hard is that??

Jay, I swear to you by all I am and all I shall ever be that even if you were to literally cock the trigger of a gun and put it to My head, you could not get Me to say those words. Not now. Not ever. I feel so strongly about this that I'd sooner die, for real.

 

If your vicious bastard of a god actually exists, it is unworthy of respect. Furthermore, I do not consent to allowing anyone to die in My place. I prefer restitution to forgiveness, and I pay My own debts.

 

And if in your howler-monkeys-on-crack theology it's somehow possible for humans to acquire unpayable, infinite debts via finite actions in a finite timeframe, that isn't a reflection on human "sinfulness" but on your god. What you've got there, Jay, is a cosmic loan shark.

 

I also noticed you dodged My challenge:

I suggest that you pick one individual of your acquaintance -- Just one -- Someone whom you know does not believe as you do, and whom you think is destined for Hell. Please spend the next 7 days meditating on the suffering that your alleged god plans to inflict upon them, in every possible sensory detail, and imagine yourself witnessing all this from the comfort of heaven.

You didn't give Me a direct answer to this, yea or nay. Are you willing to do this? If not... Why not?