Truth About The Unpardonable Sin

[jasonother]

Thanks guys. And Margee, very nice picture! You look like a kind and warm person.

 

You can see my posts from almost 6 years now. I really have been ruined by Christianity, or my falling short of it. My bf thinks I'm bipolar, but I'm not. I'm just damned. I remember feeling the Holy Spirit, literally. And then after my slip of the tongue which was a culmination of a sinful life, I just broke. Literally, I was "twice-dead, plucked up by the roots." Even if I try to come back to the Lord, He will not receive me. My prayer has basically become sin, because in God's Eye's I'm guilty of the blood of Christ by denying Him after receiving Him. In fact, before when I would pray I would receive a feeling of comfort by the Holy Spirit, but since my falling away, it's like I receive a spirit of fear and terror instead, like Saul did after he fell away.

 

You are beautiful souls who have tried and contended. I believe your sincerity.

[Margee]

Thanks guys. And Margee, very nice picture! You look like a kind and warm person.

 

You can see my posts from almost 6 years now. I really have been ruined by Christianity, or my falling short of it. My bf thinks I'm bipolar, but I'm not. I'm just damned. I remember feeling the Holy Spirit, literally. And then after my slip of the tongue which was a culmination of a sinful life, I just broke. Literally, I was "twice-dead, plucked up by the roots." Even if I try to come back to the Lord, He will not receive me. My prayer has basically become sin, because in God's Eye's I'm guilty of the blood of Christ by denying Him after receiving Him. In fact, before when I would pray I would receive a feeling of comfort by the Holy Spirit, but since my falling away, it's like I receive a spirit of fear and terror instead, like Saul did after he fell away.

 

You are beautiful souls who have tried and contended. I believe your sincerity.

 

Thank you for the nice compliment jason!

 

If you ARE really sincere.... and I think you are....I am so sad for you, my poor darling friend - I sure wish you would go and talk to somebody...a professional that might be able to help you deprogram. Do you see that you need help?

 

Best of everything to you..........

[florduh]

Seems I'm in the minority.

 

See how nice and trusting and helpful the Ex-Christians are compared to Christians? (Except me, of course.)

 

So, Jason, if you really do believe all the pseudo doctrinal nonsense you're telling us, get some SECULAR professional help. The odd things you say you believe and comparing yourself to some of the characters in the Biblical tale is not normal - even for a Christian. Rather than spend a few more years saying "woe is me" to people who don't subscribe to your unusual beliefs (or mainline Christianity for that matter), do something concrete about your problem. Unless, of course, you wish to tell us Ex-Christians it's not too late for us; we just need the correct understanding of Scripture and be careful to not blaspheme your Holy Spirit - whatever that means.

 

In any event, good luck (and if you're drinking too much, stop it.)

[mymistake]

I'm just damned. I remember feeling the Holy Spirit, literally. And then after my slip of the tongue which was a culmination of a sinful life, I just broke. Literally, I was "twice-dead, plucked up by the roots." Even if I try to come back to the Lord, He will not receive me.

 

Then what do you have to lose by becoming an atheist? Turn your back on God. Declare that God is not real. Is your problem your belief? We can work with you on that to help you. Even if you still believe in God you can start by saying "God is imaginary". Say the words and belief will follow. I do not understand why you refuse to even have a dialog regarding this subject. I'm not the only one who has suggested it. We can all help you get over your belief because we all have been there and went through it. If you are just going to live in the past and treasure the memories you had back when you thought you were in good standing with God - that is no way to live. You gain nothing from this. You will never have peace that way. You need to cut it loose and move forward.

 

Can you at lest say why you won't try this?

[mcdaddy]

Thanks guys. And Margee, very nice picture! You look like a kind and warm person.

 

You can see my posts from  almost 6 years now. I really have been ruined by Christianity, or my falling short of it. My bf thinks I'm bipolar, but I'm not. I'm just damned. I remember feeling the Holy Spirit, literally. And then after my slip of the tongue which was a culmination of a sinful life, I just broke. Literally, I was "twice-dead, plucked up by the roots." Even if I try to come back to the Lord, He will not receive me. My prayer has basically become sin, because in God's Eye's I'm guilty of the blood of Christ by denying Him after receiving Him. In fact, before when I would pray I would receive a feeling of comfort by the Holy Spirit, but since my falling away, it's like I receive a spirit of fear and terror instead, like Saul did after he fell away.

 

You are beautiful souls who have tried and contended. I believe your sincerity.

 

look. a year ago i was your standard card carrying Xian. but i got real curious and since then i read at least 30-40 books on church origins, ancient hebrew history, comparative religion, science, yada yada yada. theres so much information you don't know. because the church discourages you finding it. start reading, learn a few things, realize how wrong your fundamental beliefs are, and you'll feel better in the end. seriously.

[ConureDelSol]

I think you need to tackle this alcoholism thing first personally. Whatever you do though, please don't go to Alcoholics Anonymous. See if you can find a secular support group. I mean this because AA emphasizes God. If you feel you have been rejected by God, hearing all about him helping you stop drinking is not going to make you feel any better. Also, listen to mcdaddy's advice. Go check out your local library and find some books about the history of Christianity and all that.

[Realist]

look. a year ago i was your standard card carrying Xian. but i got real curious and since then i read at least 30-40 books on church origins, ancient hebrew history, comparative religion, science, yada yada yada. theres so much information you don't know. because the church discourages you finding it. start reading, learn a few things, realize how wrong your fundamental beliefs are, and you'll feel better in the end. seriously.

 

... well put mcdaddy! Do some reading on the EVIL origins of christianity with an open mind, and before long you will wonder how you ever were fooled by it in the first place! The fundie version of christianity is a SHIT and EVIL religion! NO ifs or buts about it!!

[Guest Valk0010]

Thanks guys. And Margee, very nice picture! You look like a kind and warm person.

 

You can see my posts from almost 6 years now. I really have been ruined by Christianity, or my falling short of it. My bf thinks I'm bipolar, but I'm not. I'm just damned. I remember feeling the Holy Spirit, literally. And then after my slip of the tongue which was a culmination of a sinful life, I just broke. Literally, I was "twice-dead, plucked up by the roots." Even if I try to come back to the Lord, He will not receive me. My prayer has basically become sin, because in God's Eye's I'm guilty of the blood of Christ by denying Him after receiving Him. In fact, before when I would pray I would receive a feeling of comfort by the Holy Spirit, but since my falling away, it's like I receive a spirit of fear and terror instead, like Saul did after he fell away.

 

You are beautiful souls who have tried and contended. I believe your sincerity.

 

Think about this another way, how evil is it of a omniscient god, to create a senario where your born doomed to hell and there is nothing you can do about it. You might as well never been born. How can that be a loving moral god. If the god of the bible is perfect then stalin and hitler were the worlds greatest statesmen. There is not much of a difference in practice between the three.

[ShackledNoMore]

Thanks guys. And Margee, very nice picture! You look like a kind and warm person.

 

You can see my posts from almost 6 years now. I really have been ruined by Christianity, or my falling short of it. My bf thinks I'm bipolar, but I'm not. I'm just damned. I remember feeling the Holy Spirit, literally. And then after my slip of the tongue which was a culmination of a sinful life, I just broke. Literally, I was "twice-dead, plucked up by the roots." Even if I try to come back to the Lord, He will not receive me. My prayer has basically become sin, because in God's Eye's I'm guilty of the blood of Christ by denying Him after receiving Him. In fact, before when I would pray I would receive a feeling of comfort by the Holy Spirit, but since my falling away, it's like I receive a spirit of fear and terror instead, like Saul did after he fell away.

 

You are beautiful souls who have tried and contended. I believe your sincerity.

 

Is this the same boyfriend as from six years ago? If so, I'm glad to see that he's stuck by you. You are fortunate if you still have a good thing going with him and he's a good source of support.

 

Bipolar? I have no information or qualifications to even make a guess whether you would be or not, but I do know that a number of our members here have had to deal with BPD. I don't know, but I think it may be a common co-condition with religious trauma.

 

Beautiful souls? Thank you. By and large we are just decent, ordinary people. We do not need god to be good. Just like christians, you can find some unbelievers who are jerks and many who are wonderful people, but I believe that on average, unbelievers have a slight leg up on christians when it comes to morals. We don't have to be judgmental on what we think that god doesn't like. We don't have a tribal mentality stemming from seeing ourselves as the elect. We don't see ourselves engaged in "spiritual warfare" against those who see things differently than we do. We can't recruit god and religion to excuse, defend, or enable any of our own bigotries. When we try to empathize, encourage, or help it is nothing more than any decent person would do.

[Overcame Faith]

Orthodox Christian doctrine says there is one god in three persons: the father, son, and holy spirit. According to the "rule" of the unpardonable sin, one can do or say anything about part of god and will be forgiven, but if they say the wrong thing about the part of god called the holy spirit, there is no forgiveness. So, ask yourself something: why would part of this god be so sensitive while the other two parts are not? Doesn't this seem to suggest that the alleged holy spirit is of a radically different character as it relates to forgiveness from the other parts of god? It must be of a different character since there is no forgiveness for blaspheming the holy spirit, yet you can say and do anything related to the son and be forgiven. If the holy spirit is of such a radically different character when it comes to forgiveness, then the three parts of god must not form one god because how could one part of this supposedly trinitarian god be forgiving but one part of it not be? In other words, the doctrine of the unpardonable sin is one more piece of evidence that the whole thing is totally man-made with no logical consistency.

 

Lighten up, you have not committed the unpardonable sin because there is no such thing. Either god is forgiving or he is not. Either Jesus' death on the cross was an atonement for all sins or this supposedly great plan for salvation is flawed - and a true and perfect god would not be a limited atonement for sins in the flawed manner dictated by the unpardonable sin. If there were truly an unpardonable sin, then Jesus was a failure!!!

[London]

@overcamefaith

I was never taught that about the holy spirit. You learn something new every day. Thanks for that.

And I have to agree with what you said.

[blackpudd1n]

Thanks guys. And Margee, very nice picture! You look like a kind and warm person.

 

You can see my posts from almost 6 years now. I really have been ruined by Christianity, or my falling short of it. My bf thinks I'm bipolar, but I'm not. I'm just damned. I remember feeling the Holy Spirit, literally. And then after my slip of the tongue which was a culmination of a sinful life, I just broke. Literally, I was "twice-dead, plucked up by the roots." Even if I try to come back to the Lord, He will not receive me. My prayer has basically become sin, because in God's Eye's I'm guilty of the blood of Christ by denying Him after receiving Him. In fact, before when I would pray I would receive a feeling of comfort by the Holy Spirit, but since my falling away, it's like I receive a spirit of fear and terror instead, like Saul did after he fell away.

 

You are beautiful souls who have tried and contended. I believe your sincerity.

 

Is this the same boyfriend as from six years ago? If so, I'm glad to see that he's stuck by you. You are fortunate if you still have a good thing going with him and he's a good source of support.

 

Bipolar? I have no information or qualifications to even make a guess whether you would be or not, but I do know that a number of our members here have had to deal with BPD. I don't know, but I think it may be a common co-condition with religious trauma.

 

Beautiful souls? Thank you. By and large we are just decent, ordinary people. We do not need god to be good. Just like christians, you can find some unbelievers who are jerks and many who are wonderful people, but I believe that on average, unbelievers have a slight leg up on christians when it comes to morals. We don't have to be judgmental on what we think that god doesn't like. We don't have a tribal mentality stemming from seeing ourselves as the elect. We don't see ourselves engaged in "spiritual warfare" against those who see things differently than we do. We can't recruit god and religion to excuse, defend, or enable any of our own bigotries. When we try to empathize, encourage, or help it is nothing more than any decent person would do.

 

I somehow managed to skip the post where Jason mentioned bipolar, but my bipolar bells were ringing.

 

Why, Jason? I have bipolar. Takes one to know one.

 

What you're experiencing is religious delusions and granduer. Very normal for a bipolar person in the midst of an episode.

 

Your falling star experience that you percieved to be a sign from God is simply known as synchronicity. Linking unconnected events and giving them a meaning. Also very normal and common when in the midst of an episode.

 

the exaggerated feelings of remorse that you feel are, again, another indicator of bipolar.

 

The self-medication through the use of alcohol is, again, another bipolar indicator.

 

Of course I could be wrong. But you've got my bipolar bells ringing.

 

This is something that you do need to get addressed. Bipolar does not get better on its own. You could also be suffering from psychotic depression. Either way, both conditions need to be checked out, because neither will get better on their own. trust me on that. Remember, I live with bipolar.

[Suzy]

Orthodox Christian doctrine says there is one god in three persons: the father, son, and holy spirit. According to the "rule" of the unpardonable sin, one can do or say anything about part of god and will be forgiven, but if they say the wrong thing about the part of god called the holy spirit, there is no forgiveness. So, ask yourself something: why would part of this god be so sensitive while the other two parts are not? Doesn't this seem to suggest that the alleged holy spirit is of a radically different character as it relates to forgiveness from the other parts of god? It must be of a different character since there is no forgiveness for blaspheming the holy spirit, yet you can say and do anything related to the son and be forgiven. If the holy spirit is of such a radically different character when it comes to forgiveness, then the three parts of god must not form one god because how could one part of this supposedly trinitarian god be forgiving but one part of it not be? In other words, the doctrine of the unpardonable sin is one more piece of evidence that the whole thing is totally man-made with no logical consistency.

 

Lighten up, you have not committed the unpardonable sin because there is no such thing. Either god is forgiving or he is not. Either Jesus' death on the cross was an atonement for all sins or this supposedly great plan for salvation is flawed - and a true and perfect god would not be a limited atonement for sins in the flawed manner dictated by the unpardonable sin. If there were truly an unpardonable sin, then Jesus was a failure!!!

 

I am wondering if the claim in the gospels that the blasphemy of the HS is an unpardonable sin has to do with some debates about the HS at the time when those gospels (or one of them) were written (ie. decades after Jesus lived, if he lived at all)? I mean although the Spirit of God is mentioned in the OT, but the the concept of the Trinity is a new, Christian dogma. I can see some Christians calling the Christian concept of the HS a heretical idea. In the gospel the blasphemy of the HS was when Jesus cast demons out of people and a Pharisees claimed he was doing that by the power of Satan. So I can imagine that when some people practiced all kinds of mental trickery in the early church (calling it "casting out demons") others criticized that practice, some might have pointed out things like that take place in pagan religions as well, so this must be the power of Satan, rather than God etc. So those who wanted to silence this criticism, may have come up with the teaching of the "unpardonable sin" simply to silence those critics or anyone who questioned their practices. Just a thought.

 

 

[mymistake]

I am wondering if the claim in the gospels that the blasphemy of the HS is an unpardonable sin has to do with some debates about the HS at the time when those gospels (or one of them) were written (ie. decades after Jesus lived, if he lived at all)?

 

That is generally how the Bible all works. An author wanted to deal with an issue of his day (or an editor in those situations where extensive editing took place after the writing). So the Bible passage was written down. Then either Ezra's team found the passage useful or Constantine's team found the passage supported them so it wound up in the Old Testament or New Testament respectfully.

 

This is why you see new concepts being addressed in the Gospel of John. Nobody had thought of Jesus and God "being one" back when the three synoptic gospels were being written. Whatever the authors and editors thought of "blasphemy against the holy ghost" has probably changed a few times over the various copies. The Holy Spirit itself was a newly evolving concept in the first century. You don't see "they were filled with the Holy Spirit" in the book of Daniel and it was written a few hundred years before the gospels.

 

 

I mean although the Spirit of God is mentioned in the OT, but the the concept of the Trinity is a new, Christian dogma. I can see some Christians calling the Christian concept of the HS a heretical idea.

 

And Rome killed them for it. Once Rome exterminated all the other Christian sects then Rome could make up any story they wanted.

 

In the gospel the blasphemy of the HS was when Jesus cast demons out of people and a Pharisees claimed he was doing that by the power of Satan. So I can imagine that when some people practiced all kinds of mental trickery in the early church (calling it "casting out demons") others criticized that practice, some might have pointed out things like that take place in pagan religions as well, so this must be the power of Satan, rather than God etc. So those who wanted to silence this criticism, may have come up with the teaching of the "unpardonable sin" simply to silence those critics or anyone who questioned their practices. Just a thought.

 

The worst crime is to not believe. That is why Christians hate atheists so much today. Back in the first century they didn't really have atheists. If you didn't believe someone's religion then you thought they followed the wrong god or a false god. So yes to question them was what the humans couldn't forgive. And as the authors of God they made God they way they wanted God. If they couldn't forgive something then God wouldn't either.

[jasonother]

Mymistake: "christians" teach that all the time-- that if you have remorse for sin and an awareness of damnation, it shows that you have not committed the unpardonable sin. This is silly, unBiblical nonsense. Judas knew he had committed the unpardonable sin, and was so filled with horror and panic over it that he committed suicide. A spiritual judgement of condemnation had been down to him and he knew it in his soul because it was delivered by the power of God. The fact is, the vast majority of those who profess to be "saved" are not truly saved. It is not because of a shortcoming on their part, or an unworthiness; it is just that God truly does only choose very few. And by "few" we are talking maybe there are only a few hundred truly sealed with the Holy Spirit perhaps in the US or even world today. ALL are called to cease from sin, but few are truly chosen and anointed by God. As He Said "You have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you..." "many are called, but few are chosen." The saints are called God's elect. This word, "elect," implies their being chosen, rather than them choosing to believe. There were only 12 apostles. Throughout the history of Israel, there were always many false prophets, but very few true prophets of God. The old Israel represents the church. Few in ancient Israel had the Holy Spirit too. Some did, such as the prophets and David, but they were only a small remnant in comparison to the population of the world. It has always been this way.

 

Jesus also said "He that is given much, of him shall much be required." With receiving the Holy Spirit there comes great responsibility. One is truly held to a different standard. Sins becomes all the more grievous to God. And it is only after one has received the Holy Spirit that one can lose The Holy Spirit; herein lies the truth of the unpardonable sin. Why is it unpardonable? Because he that receives the Spirit and becomes the Temple of God should cease from sin, as Jesus Said "either make the tree good, and it's fruit good, or make the tree evil and it's fruit evil," and as Peter Said "the latter state of them is worse than the former, for they had been better to have not known the Way of Truth, than after having received it, to have turned from The Holy Commandment that was delivered to them." Just as those who sin without having ever heard the Gospel will for the most part end up receiving forgiveness of sins and life (though they will not have glory of God), being saved because of their ignorance. They simply had not received the Light of God's Word to know it was necessarily a sin. "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do," Jesus Said. Jesus also said that if He had not done the works by The Spirit that He did, they would have had no sin "But now you say 'we see,' therefore your sin remaineth." Man will be judged at the Day of Judgement according to the measure of light they have received. This is why Judas is eternally damned. He was given a full knowledge of the Truth but ended up trading it in for 30 pieces of silver, having sold his birthright like Esau.

 

In many ways, it is a blessing that many have not received the Holy Spirit; otherwise, many would be in the damned position of having fallen away also, as judas, and as me. This is why many can believe in Christianity and then walk away and then come back, and perhaps never come back until the Day of Judgement and yet still be saved them perhaps (only God knows individual cases). They were called, but not chosen.

 

Don't want you guys to hate me for seeming to be downplaying your sincerity or belief or committment to Christ. It is just what I know to be true.

[Astreja]

And by "few" we are talking maybe there are only a few hundred truly sealed with the Holy Spirit perhaps in the US or even world today.

 

Jason, I think that there aren't "a few hundred"; I think that there are none at all. I think that no one has ever been "sealed," for the simple reason that the Holy Spirit is 100% mythological.

Don't want you guys to hate me for seeming to be downplaying your sincerity or belief or committment to Christ. It is just what I know to be true.

 

You may believe this to be true, but I doubt that it is. In My opinion, you are no more saved or damned than anyone else who has ever walked the face of this earth. Your "commitment to Christ" is nothing special. It is, not to put too fine a point on it, a mythological delusion with no basis in reality.

 

And I am serious when I say to you to get medical and psychiatric help. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

[mymistake]

Mymistake: "christians" teach that all the time-- that if you have remorse for sin and an awareness of damnation, it shows that you have not committed the unpardonable sin. This is silly, unBiblical nonsense. Judas knew he had committed the unpardonable sin, and was so filled with horror and panic over it that he committed suicide.

 

Actually we have no idea what Judas thought. We didn't get to hear his side of the story. We don't even know how he died. It was rumored that he commited suicide but Christian propaganda can't even agree on how. Judas might have been murdered. Or perhaps he ran away and made a new life elsewhere. We don't know. However even if Judas felt doom and believed he had sinned that wouldn't mean there really is a God offended by our actions.

 

A spiritual judgement of condemnation had been down to him and he knew it in his soul because it was delivered by the power of God. The fact is, the vast majority of those who profess to be "saved" are not truly saved.

 

You have no objective evidence to support this so called "fact". See how Christianity has messed you up? You act as if rumor and stories are fact.

 

It is not because of a shortcoming on their part, or an unworthiness; it is just that God truly does only choose very few. And by "few" we are talking maybe there are only a few hundred truly sealed with the Holy Spirit perhaps in the US or even world today.

 

All the more reason to reject such an evil God. You are never going to be free until you take that leap. God isn't doing you any favors so you need to move on.

 

Say "God is imaginary".

 

ALL are called to cease from sin, but few are truly chosen and anointed by God.

 

There is no such thing as sin. Crime is real. Respect the laws of the country where you live. Human laws are real. There is no God up in heaven watching this tiny little speck we call Earth to get angry when we don't mate the way God wants us to. God couldn't be bothered to tell us anything or send us any messages (because God doesn't exist) so that is why men wrote the Bible.

 

As He Said "You have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you..." "many are called, but few are chosen." The saints are called God's elect. This word, "elect," implies their being chosen, rather than them choosing to believe. There were only 12 apostles.

 

You don't know that either. It's not a fact simply because some guy wrote it in the Bible.

 

Throughout the history of Israel, there were always many false prophets, but very few true prophets of God.

 

Nah, they were all false. Every single one was false. If they clammed to represent somebody who doesn't exist then it's a false claim.

 

In many ways, it is a blessing that many have not received the Holy Spirit; otherwise, many would be in the damned position of having fallen away also, as judas, and as me. This is why many can believe in Christianity and then walk away and then come back, and perhaps never come back until the Day of Judgement and yet still be saved them perhaps (only God knows individual cases). They were called, but not chosen.

 

Actually I received the Holy Spirit too. It's not that big of a deal. It's not as rare as you think it is. You see receiving the Holy Spirit is something you do in your imagination. Anybody can do it.

 

Don't want you guys to hate me for seeming to be downplaying your sincerity or belief or committment to Christ. It is just what I know to be true.

 

I don't hate you. I'm trying to help you. As for what you know to be true . . . you don't even understand what it means to know truth. You think that you can know something when you have no objective evidence to show for it. You have it all upside down. If you cannot demonstrate something with objective evidence then you don't have knowledge. Period.

 

You sound like you are very miserable. The old timers here say you were here years ago with the same problem. Do you want it to be the case that six years from now you are just as miserable and you have the exact same problems as you have right now? Or would you rather that you make progress and put your life together so that six years from now you have found happiness and peace. It's you life and nobody can force you to fix it. However I have been in a very similar situation as you so I can give you some good advise.

[London]

You sound like you are very miserable. The old timers here say you were here years ago with the same problem. Do you want it to be the case that six years from now you are just as miserable and you have the exact same problems as you have right now? Or would you rather that you make progress and put your life together so that six years from now you have found happiness and peace. It's you life and nobody can force you to fix it. However I have been in a very similar situation as you so I can give you some good advise.

 

"Old timers"?

You young whipper snappers have no respect for your elders!

 

Just kidding, LOL at Old Timers. I just looked at when he registered.

 

But what you say is true mymistake. Choose to be happy now and 6 years from now you will be so glad you did.

Because jason you sound really unhappy.

[jasonother]

Mymistake: The Christian God is not a god of Love. He is only a God of Love for His saints. For the eternally damned, He is ferocious, a jealous and a cruel God, who even visits the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations. Just? I don't think that's necessarily just. How is it just for someone to be damned because of what their father did? But God does destroy the offspring of those He damns. Even wonder why in Acts, the apostle said to receive the Holy Spirit and their whole house would be saved? Thankfully, I don't have any kids, or they'd be damned too.

 

God creates some to be vessels of wrath, and others be vessels unto Glory. Ultimately, man doesn't even truly have power of his own goings, to do good or evil. Essentially, if one falls away from the faith, it is because God ordained it. If one endures, it is because God ordained it. He created some to be vessels of blessing and others vessels unto wrath, that in all things He be Glorified, both in His Mercy AND in His Judgement.

 

Yes, then, it might be said that the Good Shepherd is evil. It is what it is. At the end of the day, humans (and angels) are pawns in God's game of chess. It makes no difference to Him to bless or destroy. He does all things for His Own Glory. Yet, that doesn't make the torture of it any less. God executes many unjust judgements in the Bible, such as slaying thousands of Israelites for David's sin of numbering the children of Israel; such as slaying David's kids for the sins of their father. In a way, even satan himself and the fallen angels are victims. Yet, God is Almighty. He does whatever He wants.

 

The Bible truly does not teach free will. Ultimately, the lot that every person will have in eternity is dictated by God even before they are born.

[jasonother]

Just wanted to add something. This is part of God's thing: he wants to have it both ways. We are supposed to think that Jesus is lowly and lovely, because "Jesus cried," and because he was put to death blamelessly. Yet, the thing is, ultimately, if the people didn't believe, it is becuase Jesus did not will to open their eyes. After all, the Bible is clear that those whom God has ordained to believe, cannot resist His Spirit. But those who are not ordained to believe can not believe even if they tried. It has to come by God. Are we supposed to believe that God, Whom Jesus made clear is Almighty, didn't have the power to truly make them all see and believe? Really? Even the mountains could be removed into the sea by even a mustardseed of God's Power, yet the hearts of men were supposedly so strong that even God could not turn them because they were obstinate? My point it, it is clear that God does whatever He wills. But he pretends to will them to salvation, when really He is willing them to damnation. Hallelujah Jesus.

[Margee]

The Christian God is not a god of Love. Just wanted to add something. This is part of God's thing: he wants to have it both ways. We are supposed to think that Jesus is lowly and lovely, because "Jesus cried," and because he was put to death blamelessly. Yet, the thing is, ultimately, if the people didn't believe, it is becuase Jesus did not will to open their eyes. After all, the Bible is clear that those whom God has ordained to believe, cannot resist His Spirit. But those who are not ordained to believe can not believe even if they tried. It has to come by God. Are we supposed to believe that God, Whom Jesus made clear is Almighty, didn't have the power to truly make them all see and believe? Really? Even the mountains could be removed into the sea by even a mustardseed of God's Power, yet the hearts of men were supposedly so strong that even God could not turn them because they were obstinate? My point it, it is clear that God does whatever He wills. But he pretends to will them to salvation, when really He is willing them to damnation. Hallelujah Jesus.

 

Come with us jason...we will protect you!!

[Guest Valk0010]

Just wanted to add something. This is part of God's thing: he wants to have it both ways. We are supposed to think that Jesus is lowly and lovely, because "Jesus cried," and because he was put to death blamelessly. Yet, the thing is, ultimately, if the people didn't believe, it is becuase Jesus did not will to open their eyes. After all, the Bible is clear that those whom God has ordained to believe, cannot resist His Spirit. But those who are not ordained to believe can not believe even if they tried. It has to come by God. Are we supposed to believe that God, Whom Jesus made clear is Almighty, didn't have the power to truly make them all see and believe? Really? Even the mountains could be removed into the sea by even a mustardseed of God's Power, yet the hearts of men were supposedly so strong that even God could not turn them because they were obstinate? My point it, it is clear that God does whatever He wills. But he pretends to will them to salvation, when really He is willing them to damnation. Hallelujah Jesus.

I think you sort of get the point of why its bullshit, my question is why your bitching about being damned if it isn't true?

[Guest Valk0010]

 

 

The Bible truly does not teach free will. Ultimately, the lot that every person will have in eternity is dictated by God even before they are born.

Isn't that a self countradictory position, if its dictated by god why all the fuss, especially if he is powerful to do whatever the hell he wants?

[Astreja]

if its dictated by god why all the fuss, especially if he is powerful to do whatever the hell he wants?

 

Precisely.

 

Jason, if this god of yours actually did exist, had limitless power and had already decided everyone's fates... What, exactly, would we here at Ex-C be able to do about it?

 

In other words: What are you asking of us, and why?

[pratt]

is anyone thinking jasoother should spar with jayL,,,,

 

it would be interesting,,,

 

both claim to know god's thoughts, believe the exC never really are chrsitians in the 1st place, however one solidily believes in a benevolent god and the another a jealous crazy fuck-up psychopath sadist,,,