London Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Come with us jason...we will protect you!! LOL Margee, that sounded like we are aliens and are inviting jason onto our ship. But seriously jason listen to Margee. No one here will tell you that you are going to burn in hell. Everyone wishes you health, happiness, true peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realist Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 That is generally how the Bible all works. An author wanted to deal with an issue of his day (or an editor in those situations where extensive editing took place after the writing). So the Bible passage was written down. Then either Ezra's team found the passage useful or Constantine's team found the passage supported them so it wound up in the Old Testament or New Testament respectfully. This is why you see new concepts being addressed in the Gospel of John. Nobody had thought of Jesus and God "being one" back when the three synoptic gospels were being written. Whatever the authors and editors thought of "blasphemy against the holy ghost" has probably changed a few times over the various copies. The Holy Spirit itself was a newly evolving concept in the first century. You don't see "they were filled with the Holy Spirit" in the book of Daniel and it was written a few hundred years before the gospels. ... well Mymistake ... all I can add to this is FUCK Constantine, and FUCK the holy spirit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 is anyone thinking jasoother should spar with jayL,,,, it would be interesting,,, No. jother is in need of our help. JayL is an evil predator. If you want to see Christians sparing with each other go to alt (dot) christnet (dot) christianlife. There are tens of thousands of pointless messages of Christians shouting at each other. Most of them can't think strait. And of course they see those with slightly different beliefs as "wolves in sheep's clothes" so they think they have to defend the faith. All of that conflict is a perfect testimony to the failure of Christian theology. It's a reflection of Christian division which in turn is a reflection of the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I'm somewhat on the fence, but if I had to bet a dollar, I'd side with Florduh and Margee, but just barely. OTOH, the response to BAA's post is at least consistent with being sincere. Three things do fall into place: Rosh Hashanah in 2005 started Oct. 4th, the new moon was Oct. 5th. A week after that the moon would still be dark enough for the skies to still be relatively dark. The Orionids meteor shower peaks around Oct 22nd or so, but they are somewhat notorious for extending over a large portion of October. It would have been somewhat early, but in the range of Oct 12th to 15th, there would probably be some activity and a good chance of a fairly dark sky to make it more likely to see a shooting star. Jason is either sincere, lucky, or put too much thought into his trolling. I think any of these three things are possible. It's not hard to spot a shooting star. I've seen more than I can count, but I like to look at the night sky more than most people. Jason, assuming you are sincere, it is quite likely that you would look at the night sky in a time of despair. If it's during a meteor shower, it is not surprising that you would see a shooting star. What you saw was part of a natural annual occurrence, not a symbolic omen of your fall from grace. In fact, if your date was less plausible, I would have leaned further toward your being a troll. If you are sincere, you have been fucked up badly by a terrible lie, and the alcohol is also a big part of your problem. If you are sincere, you NEED face that you've been brainwashed horribly. Perhaps a counselor could help as has been suggested. Of course I would suggest a secular counselor, as a religious christian counselor would work the angle that you didn't really blaspheme the holy spirit, but the christian god really is the True God and you need to find your way back to him. Believe me, although you cannot recognize it at all, it is SOOOOOOO easy to see that you've been duped by christianity (unless, of course, you're a troll). BAA, I am so sorry to intercept your set up. It just sort of became one of the dots I was trying to connect. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Shackled No More... Not a problem SNM. In fact, you're right on the money! Yes, that's exactly the reason why I asked Jason about the date he saw that 'falling star'... tho' I'd probably say it was a Draconid rather than an Orionid, given the early October date. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draconids If he could tell us his position, the time he saw it and which direction he was looking in, we could probably zero in on it even more. With 1,000's of amateur astronomers watching out for meteors, night after night, triangulation might have been possible. Anyway, with razor-sharp insight like that, I'm glad you're on our team! BAA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To JasonOther... Thanks for your reply re: the falling star. Sorry that I was slow in getting back to you. Anyway, as you can see, two of us Ex_Christian's independently came to the same conclusion. That your falling star has an entirely prosaic and natural explanation - a meteor burning up in Earth's atmosphere. There's no need to invoke a supernatural explanation for it. In the same vein, would you be interested in reading my thoughts about the rest of your reply to my question? Specifically, the perfection you write about regarding the Sun and the Earth? Please let me know, ok? Btw, I can vouch for Blackpudd1n when it comes to matters of bipolarity. She's totally on the level and being a fellow sufferer (with you), she can empathize very well what you're thinking and feeling. She's trustworthy and will keep confidences if you choose to open up a dialog with her. All the best, BAA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonother Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 I'm not lying about that falling star. Not only did it fall when I prayed, it fell directly over my head. DIRECTLY. It was also pretty long in its duration, and pretty bright. Remember that a third of the angels (called stars in Heaven) have even fallen from God in their rebellion with Lucifer. I believe that Lucifer was the first angel created, and was the brightest and most glorious angel in the Kingdom of God. In fact, he was so bright and so glorious that he became proud. The other angels admired his beauty, and he led a rebellion because he was not content even with his exalted position. He wanted to sit on the very Throne of the Almighty. Because of this, he was cast out, as Jesus said "I beheld satan as lightning fall from Heaven." There is a God in Heaven, and Jesus Christ truly is His Son. Believe me or not. I don't mean to cause division, especially for those who have said that they believe I'm telling the truth. I have seen it by the Holy Spirit. I love you all. I really do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lunaticheathen Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Jason. I haven't read the whole thread, but it's clear that Christianity has harmed you deeply. I know it's been said before, but GET PROFESSIONAL HELP AND DROP THESE SILLY BELIEFS. Seriously, you're getting on the nutbar side for most christians even. You are not damned, you're sick. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I'm not lying about that falling star. Of course you are not. Falling stars are natural events. Not only did it fall when I prayed, it fell directly over my head. DIRECTLY. It was also pretty long in its duration, and pretty bright. Just how precise is "directly"? Anyway bugs usually hit the front windshield of a vehical rather than the sides or back. That is because cars are usually going forward. In the same way Earth takes most impacts at the "front" of Earth's pact. This corresponds to a time. Remember that a third of the angels (called stars in Heaven) have even fallen from God in their rebellion with Lucifer. I believe that Lucifer was the first angel created, and was the brightest and most glorious angel in the Kingdom of God. In fact, he was so bright and so glorious that he became proud. The other angels admired his beauty, and he led a rebellion because he was not content even with his exalted position. He wanted to sit on the very Throne of the Almighty. Because of this, he was cast out, as Jesus said "I beheld satan as lightning fall from Heaven." There is a God in Heaven, and Jesus Christ truly is His Son. All of that is make believe. It's as real as Luke Skywalker and the Deathstar. The falling star you saw was real. Believe me or not. I don't mean to cause division, especially for those who have said that they believe I'm telling the truth. I have seen it by the Holy Spirit. I love you all. I really do. You are not causing division. You are not different than the people who have seen ghosts, flying saucers and little green men from outer space. The imagination can do powerful things but that doesn't mean the underlying idea is real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I'm not lying about that falling star. Not only did it fall when I prayed, it fell directly over my head. DIRECTLY. Uhm.... I've seen more falling stars than I can remember. I've seen several blue harvest moons, red moons, moon rings, and other "signs" in the sky. Many of those signs after leaving Christianity. So are they all signs that I was right *not to pray* in those situations? I'm sorry, but a shooting star is not a sign of any kind. There are so many happening every year. If you want to see a bunch more this year, check out this Meteor Shower schedule for this year: http://stardate.org/nightsky/meteors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I just love when the moon is so close to the earth and it changes colors. Science is so cool. None of the astronomical "signs" are a sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystery Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 You came here, to a secular website, a site that is obviously not your worldview, and sought comforting words. Why? You see us as second-class, and now you see yourself that way, so why go to christians... go to people on your own level. From what you said thus far, you asked for help with no intention of receiving it. You came in closed, and will leave closed. This is not because of our lack of authority or knowledge, it is because your worldview and your belief in the vicarious Christ, will not allow our opinions to ever reach your heart.. no matter the truth in our words. There is mention of the word "slave" in the NT over 130 times, with all context of the majority pointing to a slavery to Christ. You're stumbling around this life screaming for help at the top of your lungs, and you can already feel the heat in your mind, but you have no ears.. Christ has cut them off. You have stuck yourself into the same class as Judas, and Lucifer.. both have a better track record within the Bible than God, both spoke evil, but did good.. God spoke good, and did evil. The honey from his lips are still fermenting your mind. Please, go find yourself.. seek peace.. a peace that lasted before Christ, and wil lexists long after my body has rotted and decayed.. a peace that is un-biased, non-judgemental, and without personification, a peace that has no god attached to it... a peace that is free with no strings attached. I was christian.. and I do dare say more in tune then yourself (I will make vast assumptions, because you, yourself, have implied them toward us). I always claimed to see God.. feel the Holy Ghost.. heal the sick.. But in the shadows I was slowing developing OCD, extreme anxiety, and even philematophobia (because I was always told to not kiss till marriage day).. I was plagued and dying inside. Religion was consuming my soul, eating at me until the beautiful stained-glass I call my mind was shattered. I see your stained-glass as beautiful, inspirational... but I fear the beauty of it is about to die.. and by your own hand. I do wish you the best in this life, my friend. Wherever your journey may lead I hope peace finds you 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonother Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Thanks Mystery. I guess ultimately the reason why I posted on here is not because I'm looking to convince, etc, but because I was hoping that sometime down the road, someone in this same situation might see my postings. Maybe they will know that they are not alone, not that that would actually help them. Ultimately, the Bible really doesn't teach free will. God creates some to be vessels unto blessing and others vessels unto wrath. In that way, judas and saul are both victims of God. They were created by God to eternal damnation because on a whim essentially He wanted to make a point. In the case of Saul, that men should not seek their will, but God's. They wanted a king, He gave them one, and then destroyed that king, to give His Glory instead to David. In the case of Judas, Judas was appointed even before he was born to be the one to betray Jesus, so that it could further the commentary of Jesus being an innocent Lamb, betrayed even by the one He loved supposedly. "Have not I chosen you twelve, and yet one of you is a devil," Jesus said of judas. I know that I cannot be, and will not be, the only one who had the Holy Spirit and lost HIm and is in this most horrid predicament. Yet, I can't find anyone online, except maybe one person, and that case is even questionable (franknhonest is his username.) I don't think I'm superior to anyone. I don't think I was especially blessed because I'm especially special. Rather, I think I was chosen to be one of the few to be eternally damned to God's Glory, under the guise of my having be saved and then betrayed The Lord by my denial in heart. Even Lucifer, now satan, was chosen before of God to eternal damnation to God's glory. As I said before, humankind are all pawns in a game of the Almighty. God appointed Saul, Judas, etc to eternal damnation before they were born. Essentially, when they "rebelled," they were only playing out the intent that God purposed for them. Isn't God good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted February 7, 2012 Super Moderator Share Posted February 7, 2012 As I said before, humankind are all pawns in a game of the Almighty. Sorry, but you are delusional. You could choose to get help, but apparently you're not going to do that. Pity. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Thanks Mystery. I guess ultimately the reason why I posted on here is not because I'm looking to convince, etc, but because I was hoping that sometime down the road, someone in this same situation might see my postings. Maybe they will know that they are not alone, not that that would actually help them. How is that going to help them? You are making the wrong choices and making yourself miserable. Rather, I think I was chosen to be one of the few to be eternally damned to God's Glory, under the guise of my having be saved and then betrayed The Lord by my denial in heart. God isn't glorified by any of this. If it makes you feel better tell yourself that God made you think that God is imaginary. And then say "God is imaginary". Essentially, when they "rebelled," they were only playing out the intent that God purposed for them. Isn't God good? God is imaginary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene39 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 They were created by God to eternal damnation because on a whim essentially He wanted to make a point. Judas was appointed even before he was born to be the one to betray Jesus, ... Rather, I think I was chosen to be one of the few to be eternally damned to God's Glory, under the guise of my having be saved and then betrayed The Lord by my denial in heart. Even Lucifer, now satan, was chosen before of God to eternal damnation to God's glory. Am pretty much speechless at this point. There was a time in my life when I believed I was damned, but it surely wasn't because it would bring God glory; it was because of failings on my part. I wasn't raised Calvinist, but knew they believed that some could not be saved, but was still the church's task to try to reach them, as we weren't privileged to know who the predestined ones were. Even if you look at the two people you mention - Saul and Judas, they didn't go through life believing they were damned. Not that I believe any of that, I'm just relaying face value what the Bible says. Just curious, what church out there teaches that you can know ahead of time that you are damned? Or is this just what you believe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystery Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 You are welcome. I am avaliable if it need be. In the long run, (others addressing this thread), this is going nowhere. The point was for jason to make this a guidestone for his supposed "others." He wont take any advice at this point. Everything in the universe requires balance, an equilibrium.. and if he is indeed off center, life will pull him to it.. with or without our help. Order and chaos are fine lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I'm somewhat on the fence, but if I had to bet a dollar, I'd side with Florduh and Margee, but just barely. OTOH, the response to BAA's post is at least consistent with being sincere. Three things do fall into place: Rosh Hashanah in 2005 started Oct. 4th, the new moon was Oct. 5th. A week after that the moon would still be dark enough for the skies to still be relatively dark. The Orionids meteor shower peaks around Oct 22nd or so, but they are somewhat notorious for extending over a large portion of October. It would have been somewhat early, but in the range of Oct 12th to 15th, there would probably be some activity and a good chance of a fairly dark sky to make it more likely to see a shooting star. Jason is either sincere, lucky, or put too much thought into his trolling. I think any of these three things are possible. It's not hard to spot a shooting star. I've seen more than I can count, but I like to look at the night sky more than most people. Jason, assuming you are sincere, it is quite likely that you would look at the night sky in a time of despair. If it's during a meteor shower, it is not surprising that you would see a shooting star. What you saw was part of a natural annual occurrence, not a symbolic omen of your fall from grace. In fact, if your date was less plausible, I would have leaned further toward your being a troll. If you are sincere, you have been fucked up badly by a terrible lie, and the alcohol is also a big part of your problem. If you are sincere, you NEED face that you've been brainwashed horribly. Perhaps a counselor could help as has been suggested. Of course I would suggest a secular counselor, as a religious christian counselor would work the angle that you didn't really blaspheme the holy spirit, but the christian god really is the True God and you need to find your way back to him. Believe me, although you cannot recognize it at all, it is SOOOOOOO easy to see that you've been duped by christianity (unless, of course, you're a troll). BAA, I am so sorry to intercept your set up. It just sort of became one of the dots I was trying to connect. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Shackled No More... Not a problem SNM. In fact, you're right on the money! Yes, that's exactly the reason why I asked Jason about the date he saw that 'falling star'... tho' I'd probably say it was a Draconid rather than an Orionid, given the early October date. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draconids If he could tell us his position, the time he saw it and which direction he was looking in, we could probably zero in on it even more. With 1,000's of amateur astronomers watching out for meteors, night after night, triangulation might have been possible. Anyway, with razor-sharp insight like that, I'm glad you're on our team! BAA. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To JasonOther... Thanks for your reply re: the falling star. Sorry that I was slow in getting back to you. Anyway, as you can see, two of us Ex_Christian's independently came to the same conclusion. That your falling star has an entirely prosaic and natural explanation - a meteor burning up in Earth's atmosphere. There's no need to invoke a supernatural explanation for it. In the same vein, would you be interested in reading my thoughts about the rest of your reply to my question? Specifically, the perfection you write about regarding the Sun and the Earth? Please let me know, ok? Btw, I can vouch for Blackpudd1n when it comes to matters of bipolarity. She's totally on the level and being a fellow sufferer (with you), she can empathize very well what you're thinking and feeling. She's trustworthy and will keep confidences if you choose to open up a dialog with her. All the best, BAA. Excellent call on the Draconids, BAA. I don't think they're always listed on meteor shower lists (in fact, they're not on Ouroboros' list!) and I had either never heard about them before, or never remembered if I came across them. Significantly, the Wikipedia article says that there was a spike in the rate of the shower in 2005--and the date is more aligned with Jason's recollection. It sounds like you are spot on. Jason, if this was an Orionid, you were facing east and I'm guessing it was fairly late. Judging by the name, if it was a Draconid you must have been facing north. I think it was unlikely you were facing south or west. Do you remember? I don't know exactly what you mean by it falling directly over your head since it was streaking across the sky, but the ones that sweep right in front of you are the ones you notice. Unlike the majority of chrsitains (but not all), Jason recognizes that the christian god is cruel and vindictive. (Not to refer to you in the third person, Jason, I'm writing this for BAA AND you AND the other readers.) The flaw is in his premise that this god exists as portrayed in the bible in all his grisly horror. That's one reason why you concluded that god either lied about there having been a flood or created a global flood and then hid the evidence. I believed that the christian god actively hid evidence too in my last couple of years as a christian. With this premise accepted as truth, Jason can still interpret his sighting as an omen from the christian god. It is confirmation bias, specifically biased interpretation. Jason, this is but another small thing that you need to justify or interpret in a special way to fit with your core premise. There are so many. Especially when you can conclude that for god to exist and orchestrate the writing of the bible that he has to be a liar, you've lost all reason to believe that he even does exist. It is time to examine your core premise. You may find you do not need to make special excuses if you do. One warning: just don't fall into nihilism and more depression if you do. Seek out support of a good mental health profession, as everyone keeps suggesting. We all hope you become proactive to improve your life, but that is a step that YOU are going to have to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonother Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Honestly, I think I was actually facing west. I'm trying to figure that out. Yes, there were a lot of meteors that year, but this one was different. It was weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 In the long run, (others addressing this thread), this is going nowhere. The point was for jason to make this a guidestone for his supposed "others." He wont take any advice at this point. This is like watching two locomotives crash head on in slow motion. If he would just think it through he would realize that if God destines everything there is no point to leaving his "guidestone" for others. If God wants them to figure it out then they will without his help. If God wants them to not figure them out then no amount of guidestones will make any difference. Of course if he was thinking that much he would take the good advise he was given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMo Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 To the one who initiated this post... I have just recently signed into this website, and I have not posted my deconversion story. However, if you are interested in reading, then perhaps it will help you. I was raised in the Protestant Church. My father abandoned his household in the name of Jesus Christ when I was 13 years old and became a pastor during the time he committed many Christian adulteries against my mother. I was baptized for myself at 17 and immediately became a missionary in the Prostant Church, and was a missionary for seven years. My nickname was Missionary Mike. Essentially, my deepest need was for a Father, and I believed in God to supply that demand, which my earthly father failed to supply. However, although I was baptized, I did not consider myself baptized by the Ghost, but only by water. It took me three more years to be ok with Jesus Christ because, although I participated in the Church, the Church never embodied what I was reading in the Bible, which was my source of discipleship. The Church preaches a Man and a doctrine that they look absolutely in no way like. My favorite aspect of the gospel was righteousness, and the greatest proof a person was a Christian to me was their moral base...I did not know very many Christians. Jesus Christ came to establish the kingdom of righteousness, and so I was a disciple of righteousness. In challenging the leadership of the Church I was baptized into for their immorality, they ostracized me from their congregation. Likewise, one other leader, the college pastor, defended me, and that pastor lost his job soon after. I joined another congregation, and not through them, but in my personal zeal and alone time, I was baptized into the Spirit. I made a covenant with myself that I was against the contemporary Church because the contemporary Church was in every way the antithesis of the gospel of Christ, not only doctrinally, but almost incessantly in practice. I never met a Christian that I could "imitate," as Apostle Paul said of himself. I never met a leader who was called, as Apostle Paul called the Apostles, "the scum of the earth," or as those destined to die as gladiators in the arena. I never met a leader who was the least among his congregation and who boasted in the death of his flesh like Apostle Paul did. I never met the leader who collected resources to redistrubute them to the needy among the congregation. So, I started doing these things in ministries by myself. I went to Skidrow in Los Angeles and slept there and fed them there and clothed them there and ministered to all of their needs there. I rented an apartment and at one time had four people sleeping in my room; they shared my food and my clothes and my furniture. I decreased my expenses...I was making $1,000/month in income, $350 was going to expenses, and $650 I redistributed to the homeless and to those of my peers who I was trying to establish my community with. I was devoted to the poor and to my peer group of Christians. I helped to pay off their school debts...I helped them pass their college courses...I visited them in hospitals...was there for them in their most difficult times. And I also gave my "tithe" to the congregation, so that I did not have to hear their leaders bitch about their "inheritance." When the leaders saw me doing these things by myself, they were infuriated to say the least, since I was not assimilating to their patterns of leadership, but was continually asking them questions about their integrity, especially with money. My peer group pastor borrowed $1,500 from the most indebted student in our fellowship, and he divorced his wife because the Lord gave him a dream in Africa. Over time, this same pastor challenged me about the tithe, and I told him that I was tithing, but he wanted to know to what specific denomination I was tithing to (he wanted to know where my denominational loyalty was fixed). He disciplined me verbally about this, and during my "rebuke" I yelled back at him, "Are you sacrificing animals on my behalf?" And he took his systematic theology book off his shelf and read the "authority" of that author...Grudem?. Anyhow, at that time, I challenged all of the pastors in that geography where I lived...and only one Church backed me up (he happens to be the most famous Chinese Christian in the world right now). This Church told me that my theology was correct, and very advanced for my age, but that none of these others Churches would listen. And they did not listen. Instead I was in big trouble, and all of the peers I took care of turned against me, gave false testimonies concerning me, and I was kicked out of the fellowship that I invested all of my resources in by the testimony of two or three witnesses. In the ostracism discussion, the pastor who kicked me out even agreed with all of my doctrinal positions and that the testimonies of these others were unreliable. But he kicked me out anyway...he told me "the perception was the reality." And so, for example, one of the girls who I helped pass her CSET test in mathematics could not celebrate with me, but she celebrated with one of my roommates and discluded me by saying, "Weren't you at the meeting?" In the end, the only population of people who called me "pastor" was the poor. The Churches hated my guts. After this second ostracism, after all the leadership I had to sit in judgment before because of their justified immorality...and the betrayal of my "friends," who I had been wholly devoted to...I fell into a state of such exhaustion inside that I intentionally blasphemed God for his intentional inability to effect righteousness among his own profession. I was angry at God because I had left my family, and my home, and all of my personal interests to be devoted to his people...and they were traitors as entire congregations (I received more persecution in the Church than in the rest of my entire life of growing up in Los Angeles combined). I told him, and nullified the reason I came to zeal in the faith, that he was a horrendous Father, even worse than my own earthly father. I said, my father was more responsible in his house than God was in His house, and my father left. The same night I "prayed" that, I woke up in the middle of the night and felt like a land mine had gone off in my heart. I felt like I could die at any moment...and every breath I took was difficult to maintain. I knew I had blasphemed the Ghost...and I "knew" that this was the consequence. I prayed in repentance for almost a year, wholly frightened, focused on all of those passages that you were, and reading the entire Bible again in hopes that I could learn how to appease the most angry and omnipotent Deity. I wondered why and how he hated me so much, as to destroy the covenant he made in my inward man, and even as he made it so easy for these other Christians, who ostracized me for their insecurities, who hate his gospel by what they practice...being children touchers and adulterers and greedy capitalists...prostituting the "Word of God" and their commentaries on it. I never went to the doctor because I thought my condition was supernatural, and I felt like I would perpetually die for an entire two years. I sought three different Christian counsellors, and one of them was so incompetant that I could not stop laughing, while the other two discontinued counselling me without explanations...in fact, I never heard from them again. I felt inside like I was on the verge of being possessed by demons...and I was praying to God that I would not hurt anybody else. I was in a state that was borderline losing my mind...I was averaging two hours of sleep a night, and every day I had to describe to myself what was real from what was the manifestation I created in my mind (outside of explanation I could not tell the difference between being asleep and being awake). And I wanted to commit suicide because I gave up everything for nothing in return...and there was no glory in it in the end...there was heartache and lonliness. In the two years I quit my job and was laid-off from another job, relocated three times between two states, had my 20 year old cat die, had my dear grandma die, had my best friend's grandpa die, personally watched as my best friend's household fell apart, had my favorite aunt hospitalized for the first time in her life with intestinal cancer...nearly dead, etc. And this was the conclusion to the depressive state I entered after being ostracized for the second time. And my character previous to that had been popularity throughout my entire education and employment, honor roll my entire education through college, community service and part time employment in my spare time since I had become an adult, and outstanding ethical responsibility. I moved into my mother's house expecting to die...and months later, when my grandma died and I had no emotional dispostion about it, I checked myself into the psychiatric hospital. They medicated me for a week, and I was released to an outpatient program for one month. Then I was given a psychiatrist, which I see every three months, and a therapist, which I see once a week. I never turned to alcohol, but I turned to God and challenged him to his omnipresence...I would say, "Kill me to my face you coward." My therapist says that my symptoms portray, and my story portrays, since I did not admit myself for more than one year...that I had a psychotic break with a severe anxiety attack, which after two years of having my flight and fight response peretually active is finally subsiding, and that I show symptoms of both OCD and Bipolar I, the latter of which runs in my genetics. I believed the same thing you did to the point where those who ostracized me I told never to talk to me again (oxymoron) because I had fallen away from the faith, and my end was absolutely condemnation. However, there was a deep desire in me to overcome, and although for two years I was in a state borderlining death, I am continuing to deprogram a belief system of which I have never embodied anything more fully. Ironically enough, in the time when I was reading the Bible to somehow forcefully salvage my faith, I began entertaining many questions within my advanced understanding of theology. And by these questions I slowly began to undermine the "infallibility" of this belief system. I have improved tremendously in the last half year. However, I write to say that I know what it is like to have blasphemed the Ghost, to understand in the depths of your inward man what it means to be eterally condemned, and to continue to believe in Jesus Christ after you have entered this state. But you do not have to remain in that state...you have the capacity to overcome it. Believing in Jesus Christ is not wrong, but it is immature...childish. And believing in the systematic religion of Jesus Christ is a preference that you have acquired...like an acquired taste. What you need more than anything is "inception." You need one simple idea to originate and evolve inside of your mind, and that is why I think that you are truly on this website. I do not think that anyone on this forum has responded in vain, but that all are inputting ideas that could deprogram the idea that you have personified to your torment. Your idea of predestination is the accurate gospel doctrine...freewill is for Interpolators...but what if the entire doctrine were not sufficient? My natural response in my sickness was survival, and by it I challenged every doctrine that was undermining my health. I had to know for certain whether I was or was not going to everlasting punishment...and after nearly a year of Biblical study (hours and hours a day) I concluded that there was no everlasting punishment to go to (according to the Christian doctrine). Furthermore, predestination in the Christian context is the most foolish doctrine that I have ever encountered...if the Christian doctrine were true (hypothetically), then sin orignated from the eternal mind of God and was effectually created through the foreknowledge of God, so that this present existence is nothing more than the revelation and fulfillment of those heavenly thoughts...the world at this moment is nothing more than the revelation of the mind and will of God. Nevertheless, over time I undermined them all successfully, every Christian doctrine that I believed in, but you have to have some kind of idea in yourself to finally question this thing that you believe so stubbornly. If you are eternally condemned (hypothetically), then you have nothing to lose. Start asking questions about your belief system...have some doubts and let them manifest. And those doubts will become simultaneous with alternative belief systems. Your presumption is that Jesus Christ and predestination and eternal punishments are absolute doctrines, but why are they absolute? Who says? A book? The imagination of the embodied book in the Holy Ghost? The ones with explicit internal errors...doctrinally, historically, etc.? There is a deconversion that can finally testify that these beliefs are superstitious, and the weight of its authority can be left all alone in the book that contains it, being irrelevant to us. You still make the Scriptures LORD of your life...you make them to govern everything that you do and the way that you see this world. Set yourself free from your presumptuous bondages and the healing can begin apart from the stripes of Jesus. I am, and I am sure there are plenty of others, who are evidence that this is all possible. Without God many things are still possible. You have nothing to lose, but only something to gain. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Isn't God good? No, and i think you proved it. People talk about doing things for his glory, but isn't that a bit like me squashing a ant for my glory. It makes no sense when I do it. Why should it make sense when god squishes us ants. What does he have to prove if he is already god? My answer to that would be nothing. Just because god can do something doesn't make it good. How is it worth glory for god to be a make a thing, know he is creating it, and destroy it. You can talk about glory all you want, but that is murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Valk0010 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Thanks Mystery. I guess ultimately the reason why I posted on here is not because I'm looking to convince, etc, but because I was hoping that sometime down the road, someone in this same situation might see my postings. Maybe they will know that they are not alone, not that that would actually help them. Ultimately, the Bible really doesn't teach free will. God creates some to be vessels unto blessing and others vessels unto wrath. In that way, judas and saul are both victims of God. They were created by God to eternal damnation because on a whim essentially He wanted to make a point. In the case of Saul, that men should not seek their will, but God's. They wanted a king, He gave them one, and then destroyed that king, to give His Glory instead to David. In the case of Judas, Judas was appointed even before he was born to be the one to betray Jesus, so that it could further the commentary of Jesus being an innocent Lamb, betrayed even by the one He loved supposedly. "Have not I chosen you twelve, and yet one of you is a devil," Jesus said of judas. I know that I cannot be, and will not be, the only one who had the Holy Spirit and lost HIm and is in this most horrid predicament. Yet, I can't find anyone online, except maybe one person, and that case is even questionable (franknhonest is his username.) I don't think I'm superior to anyone. I don't think I was especially blessed because I'm especially special. Rather, I think I was chosen to be one of the few to be eternally damned to God's Glory, under the guise of my having be saved and then betrayed The Lord by my denial in heart. Even Lucifer, now satan, was chosen before of God to eternal damnation to God's glory. As I said before, humankind are all pawns in a game of the Almighty. God appointed Saul, Judas, etc to eternal damnation before they were born. Essentially, when they "rebelled," they were only playing out the intent that God purposed for them. Isn't God good? How is that moral? Let me give you a hint. It isn't. The case is particularly strong in the case of judas, being created already chosen for hell and suffering. At least some christians get it right in noticing that it is a complete and total mindfuck (which is why I suspect alot of christians aren't calvinists) but they can never save judas from that really, logically that is. I don't see the christian idea of god, as any different then the existence of the worlds worse despots. Its fallacious to say that, just because its god, that makes it right. That is a bit like saying just because Noam Chomsky says something on US foreign policy that makes him automatically right. Its the same fallacy. I don't understand how a God who can do that, can be responsible for ethics, especially when that said god is supposed to be omnipotent and omniscient, and can do whatever the fuck he pleases, but then chooses this most disgusting option. If god is in anyway evil, I don't see how that god can exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I'm not lying about that falling star. Not only did it fall when I prayed, it fell directly over my head. DIRECTLY. It was also pretty long in its duration, and pretty bright. Remember that a third of the angels (called stars in Heaven) have even fallen from God in their rebellion with Lucifer. I believe that Lucifer was the first angel created, and was the brightest and most glorious angel in the Kingdom of God. In fact, he was so bright and so glorious that he became proud. The other angels admired his beauty, and he led a rebellion because he was not content even with his exalted position. He wanted to sit on the very Throne of the Almighty. Because of this, he was cast out, as Jesus said "I beheld satan as lightning fall from Heaven." There is a God in Heaven, and Jesus Christ truly is His Son. Believe me or not. I don't mean to cause division, especially for those who have said that they believe I'm telling the truth. I have seen it by the Holy Spirit. I love you all. I really do. No Jason, I know that you aren't lying about the falling star. You genuinely believe it to be a sign from heaven - whereas I think that you are mistaken. No, I won't argue with you over this! You are perfectly entitled to believe what you like. However... ...if what you believe is harming you, then please do as others here have suggested and get some help. You may get some kind of help from the folks here, but imho, direct and face-to-face help from another person (rather than a computer screen) is much better. I'll also take your reply as a, 'No'... that you don't want to hear any more from about the other points you made in your earlier post. That's fine - I'm not mad at you. I'm just clearly defining where we stand, ok? Once again, please seek some help. With all good wishes, BAA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Excellent call on the Draconids, BAA. I don't think they're always listed on meteor shower lists (in fact, they're not on Ouroboros' list!) and I had either never heard about them before, or never remembered if I came across them. Significantly, the Wikipedia article says that there was a spike in the rate of the shower in 2005--and the date is more aligned with Jason's recollection. It sounds like you are spot on. Ummm... I'd prefer to share the kudos with the teapot guy. High five? BAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Video of shooting star: Oh, btw, I've also seen comets. There was one some years ago (10?) that I actually could see through a passenger window in a commercial airplane. I was going in some domestic flight, and I was lucky sitting on the right side. The comet was visible for a couple of days, if I remember correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Video of shooting star: That shooting star happened directly over the cameraman as a sign from heaven to tell us "God is imaginary". GLORY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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