I am a Christian

[Panther]

What you do not recognize your own personal "lord and savior" getting down at the discoteque??? ...

 

       

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getting down with the best of em...

 

[Thurisaz]

There's actually a really quick recipe for this. In less than 10 to 15 seconds, it is quite easy to produce a person that is too holey.

 

All you have to do is, hand Tocis a machine-gun and put him in a room with Goldy. In an extremely short period of time, you will know, without a doubt, that an individual can indeed be too holey.

 

 

Too fast Fwee, much too fast. Hand me a hammer, that's in style with my faith plus the cockroach gets the slow death it deserves.

[Guest Challenger]

I'm not mad, sometimes it's good for christians to get a dose of reality. Not just the fall-back on the pews, and I'm filled with the holy ghost stuff.

 

the age of accountability is the age you are no longer considered a child. One verse that can lead you to that is that blessed are the children for theirs is the kingdom verse. (I admit I know what is in the bible, but ask for locations and I'm pretty much at a loss!)

 

"Blessed are those who have not seen me yet believe in me." I believe I will see jesus in person some day and I live waiting for that day. Jesus does talk to me through certain people and sometimes in just feelings.

 

If you said you knew Zesus personally I admit I would ask for the proof, I would also ask what he said to you.

 

I'm not religious I'm me. I love Jesus and am tring to live a life that is pleasing to him.

 

What types of churches did you go to? (Just another curious question) I just want to know you guys alittle better why you turned from God and stuff. I'm not tring to get preachey.

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the age of accountability is the age you are no longer considered a child. One verse that can lead you to that is that blessed are the children for theirs is the kingdom verse.

 

Matthew, Chapter 5 Verse 9, The Sermon on the Mount.

 

"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."

 

This is the closest verse I could find to what you quoted. Is this what you had in mind?

[chefranden]

Matthew 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer the little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for to such belongeth the kingdom of heaven.

[☆ TexasFreethinker ☆]

I didn't turn from the christian god - I stopped believing that it exists.

[Fweethawt]

  Reach, I'll bet that you went back and checked your post for the misspelling, didn't you? 

 

Gotcha!

And finding NO misspelling, Fwee... ahhhhhhhh... it sure feels good to be right.

 

But you did go back and check, Reach...ahhhhhhhh... it sure feels good to getcha.

 

 

[Totallyatpeace]

Matthew, Chapter 5 Verse 9, The Sermon on the Mount.

 

"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."

 

This is the closest verse I could find to what you quoted.  Is this what you had in mind?

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Here is another possibility, Challenger........and it's quite a bit older.

 

There are two scriptures and you'll need both of them for it to make sense. The first scripture listed below shows that the "little ones" had no knowledge between good and evil. The second passage of scriptures shows that the cut off age was 20 years old and upward that would perish in the wilderness. That means that the age of accountability in this specific case was 20.

 

Deuteronomy 1:39

And the little ones that you said would be taken captive, your children who do not yet know good from bad-they will enter the land. I will give it to them and they will take possession of it.

 

Numbers 14:29-31

In this desert your bodies will fall-every one of you twenty years old or more who was counted in the census and who has grumbled against me. 30 Not one of you will enter the land I swore with uplifted hand to make your home, except Caleb son of Jephunneh and Joshua son of Nun. 31 As for your children that you said would be taken as plunder, I will bring them in to enjoy the land you have rejected.

 

My personal opinion is that it is when the child can understand. That may be the age of 10 or much older.

 

 

TAP

[Guest MalaInSe]

My personal opinion is that it is when the child can understand. That may be the age of 10 or much older.

TAP

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So, while most rational people (i.e., those that want their children to be the best that they can be) are nurturing their children and helping their little ones to expand their minds, i.e. tucking them and kissing them at night, teaching them to read, taking them to the zoo, etc., Christians are teaching them to make the "right" decision when they reach the ripe old age of ten, or they'll go to hell.

 

That's beautiful.

 

Renee

[Amethyst]

I've never heard of the age ten thing, but maybe it's a southern Baptist thing or something. Lutherans don't do that, the child is a Christian from baptism (unless they stop believing later in life like I did). I think Catholics are the same way. You aren't given a choice. I would also think that many Christian parents wouldn't be very accepting of a child wanting to join another faith (for example, Wicca) or stop believing all together -- they'd have to wait until they turned 18 and could legally move out.

 

So, while most rational people (i.e., those that want their children to be the best that they can be) are nurturing their children and helping their little ones to expand their minds, i.e. tucking them and kissing them at night, teaching them to read, taking them to the zoo, etc., Christians are teaching them to make the "right" decision when they reach the ripe old age of ten, or they'll go to hell.

 

That's beautiful.

 

Renee

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[Totallyatpeace]

Mala~

 

I wasn't saying that I believe it is the age of 10. I was just throwing out a number. And the scripture in Deut and Numbers may not even be referring to the age of accountability.

 

Nowhere in the Bible does it talk about a specific age of accountability and I was just showing Challenger some other scripture that is sometimes looked at in referance to accountability.

 

As far as your other comment.................... a Christian or non-Christian belief does not make a good parent.

 

TAP

[Guest MalaInSe]

As far as your other comment.................... a Christian or non-Christian belief does not make a good parent.

 

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Having been on both sides, it's certainly a factor.

[Guest Challenger]

Mala~

 

I wasn't saying that I believe it is the age of 10. I was just throwing out a number. And the scripture in Deut and Numbers may not even be referring to the age of accountability.

 

Nowhere in the Bible does it talk about a specific age of accountability and I was just showing Challenger some other scripture that is sometimes looked at in referance to accountability.

 

As far as your other comment.................... a Christian or non-Christian belief does not make a good parent.

 

TAP

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TAP,

 

Thank you for the scripture. The "age of accountablility" certainly is one of the most controversial things I find about Christianity, and I am always looking for any additional information on it.

 

I have never seen any Scripture that specifically suggests the AoA, though the Scripture provided by Chef seem to come close. Ultimately, though, most of the Christians I have spoken to about it seem to have their own personal belief, based on their faith that a kind, wise and just God would not send young children to Hell. If I were a Christian, most likely that would be my point of view as well.

 

I have known both Christian and non-Christian parents, and from what I've seen I don't think belief, or lack of, determines whether or not someone makes a good parent. To me good parenting is the love and support a child receives in the home, regardless of the basis of that support.

[SmallStone]

Thank you for the scripture.

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Those passages are clearly dealing with the OT's promised land. Is it justifiable to replace the physical, earthly 'promised land' with the abstract, non-earthly, heavenly 'promised land'? Or is this a prime example of xtians taking things out of context to help cover the gaps in their religion?

 

TAP, I understand that you just tossed these out as examples and aren't necessarily pimping them as your biblical justification for AoA.

[Totallyatpeace]

You are correct because I don't believe that the Bible even addresses the age of accountability. I simply stated that those scriptures are sometimes used.

 

TAP

[LloydDobler]

Ultimately, though, most of the Christians I have spoken to about it seem to have their own personal belief, based on their faith that a kind, wise and just God would not send young children to Hell.

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Ironically, if he were kind, wise and just, he wouldn't send adults to hell either.

 

Such a screwed up religion.

[Guest Euthyphro]

[Guest Euthyphro]

1 John 4:8

Whoever does not love does not know God, because God IS love.

 

1 Corinthians 13:4

Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant,

 

Exodus 20:5

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a JEALOUS God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

 

Exodus 34:14

Do not worship any other god, for the LORD , whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

 

Deuteronomy 4:24

For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.

Deuteronomy 5:9

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

 

Deuteronomy 6:15

for the LORD your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land.

 

Deuteronomy 32:16

They made him jealous with their foreign gods and angered him with their detestable idols.

that has no understanding.

 

Joshua 24:19

Joshua said to the people, "You are not able to serve the LORD . He is a holy God; he is a jealous God. He will not forgive your rebellion and your sins.

 

Nahum 1:2

The LORD is a jealous and avenging God; the LORD takes vengeance and is filled with wrath. The LORD takes vengeance on his foes and maintains his wrath against his enemies.

 

Your goD is incoherent.

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[Guest MalaInSe]

I have known both Christian and non-Christian parents, and from what I've seen I don't think belief, or lack of, determines whether or not someone makes a good parent.  To me good parenting is the love and support a child receives in the home, regardless of the basis of that support.

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I respectfully disagree. I think the parenting of Christians, those that follow traditional doctrine anyway, is substandard for the following reasons:

 

1. They fail to teach their children true moral judgment by focusing on the reward and punishment rather than the reason for the conduct.

 

2. They fail to nurture and support the personalities of their children, by placing on them a pattern of behavior required by their faith. Such religious rules give little room for the natural development of children.

 

3. They provide their children with false information, for example, their faith tells them that there is something wrong with childhood sexual development, i.e., masturbation, and leads them to suppress information about sexual biological function by placing an artifical "moral" structure on it. We already know that many Christian parents suppress scientific knowledge and substitute theories that have no evidentiary support.

 

4. They rob their children of logical capacity by teaching them that it is "faith" and not evidence that should be given weight.

 

5. They raise their children in an atmosphere of fear by attaching enormous consequence to things that are likely normal childhood behaviors. They create an environment with an enormous amount of stress by attaching an enormous value to the actions and thoughts of their children.

 

6. They attach moral judgment to the actions of their children, thereby raising them to never view their conduct neutrally. All conduct is judged by the book.

 

7. They raise their children to be judgmental, in providing the belief that all that don't have Jesus are going to hell.

 

8. They believe that horrific images, such as crucifixion, are appropriate for the minds of children. That a book full of rape, slavery, murder, etc. is appropriate reading material for a child.

 

Now, I agree that good parenting does depend on having your child's best interests in mind, however, Christian doctrine teaches that you should always have God's best interests in mind. The concerns of the world, including your children, are secondary, and ultimately, that is why Christians largely make for poor parents.

 

Renee

 

Edited: Obviously, I don't think that all who claim to be Christians do this. However, the above reflect doctrine and values I was taught at a large mainstream Christian church, where the head pastor encouraged my brother and I to remind my mother that she was going to burn in hell unless she stopped living with her boyfriend.

[Reach]

Renee, as a Christian, I did none of those things that you suggested, but I have since learned that I never was a True Christian™ after all.

[Merlinfmct87]

I thought the Age of Accountability was ~13-15?

 

Merlin

[Guest MalaInSe]

Renee, as a Christian, I did none of those things that you suggested, but I have since learned that I never was a True Christian™ after all.   

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Definitely, the list only applies to True Christians.

 

At least based on what those True Christians have said on these boards.

 

Ren

 

Edited:

 

Ya mean you never gathered around the TV and popped this in the old dvd:

 

The Animated Passion

 

It's for the whole family!

 

Seriously, my main issue is with the whole God over child thing.

[Merlinfmct87]

Renee, as a Christian, I did none of those things that you suggested, but I have since learned that I never was a True Christian™ after all.   

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I was trying to figure out what felt not quite right with that post Reach, thanks for clarifying. It's not 100%.

 

Merlin

[SmallStone]

My personal opinion is that it is when the child can understand. That may be the age of 10 or much older.

TAP

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You are correct because I don't believe that the Bible even addresses the age of accountability. I simply stated that those scriptures are sometimes used.

TAP

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What then do you base your personal opinion on?

[Totallyatpeace]

Smallstone~

 

For me to answer that question it might be better if I weren’t in the debate forum. I will only be able to give you my perspective and I have no scripture to base that on. As I said, the Bible does not address it. When I gave you the number 10, I could have said 8 or 12 or 14 or whatever. As I said earlier it was an example.

 

TAP

[SmallStone]

Smallstone~

 

For me to answer that question it might be better if I weren’t in the debate forum. I will only be able to give you my perspective and I have no scripture to base that on.  As I said, the Bible does not address it. When I gave you the number 10, I could have said 8 or 12 or 14 or whatever. As I said earlier it was an example.

 

TAP

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Ok. Debate wasn't my intention. We'll get around to it sometime. I am interested in your rationalization process and in the logical implications that might exist as a result of that process. I understand that AoA is a manufactured (not revealed) doctrine of some sects of xtianity. It's your particular method of manufacture that interests me.