What If Tarot Is Real?

[OrdinaryClay]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is also clear that many contrive their standards of evidence to fit their preconceived desires.

 

I agree there are some that want to believe. There are most certainly others that don't want the supernatural to exist. Most people honestly have never faced the thought of an undeniably true afterlife. Most people give it lip service. Even Christians. Few really tackle the thought of it being genuinely true.

 

No. What most people never face is the thought of undeniably true oblivion. The idea that for 13.8 billion years you did not know you did not exist, and that for another 13.8 googol years after your body has ceased to function, you won't know you ever did exist. That it's possible that you could ever not be is so terrifying, that all of humanity has contrived not to have to so much as consider it.

That is silly. Obviously billions of people live their lives just fine knowing they did not exist before being born.

Thanks for missing (dodging?) the point. No one considers that this (nothingness) is the state to which they will return, and those that do are typically so terrified of the possibility that they cannot consider it very long.

You are the one that brought up non-existence prior to birth. On the atheist world view oblivion before and after birth are identical so the view of either should be the same. Billions of humans accept and believe in nothingness prior to birth with no consequences. Your point is simply silly.

 

Truth is the idea of oblivion after death is a greater psychological crutch than a belief in the afterlife ever was. Nothing could be easier than to believe that death will the same as before birth.

You're sure about that? As an atheist, it is very nearly incomprehensible to me that I won't exist shortly. I might assert that if people DID accept this, over however much time it would take to do so, it would be easier. However, the fear of death, and the fear of oblivion is so great that people have concocted a belief in the afterlife to cope. The idea that this is all that there is and that those escaping justice have escaped eternally, forced people to concoct eternal furnaces to catch those that thought they were clear.

 

I submit that the reason you think there is nothing to fear from this is because you don't believe that this is the end. Have you truly considered what it means to not be here ever again? And if you accept that we didn't exist prior to birth, why would we exist after death? The naturalist view is that there is nothing to fear from oblivion, this is true, but those that haven't accepted this do not take the same approach. I have believed that oblivion is our fate for over a decade, and I am still not reconciled with that fact-- how can you say it's the easier way?

 

Further, do you really believe that a belief in the afterlife is what permits good deeds? If so, you would by association be asserting that no human does good for its own sake, or rather, not because it's the right thing to do, but because they fear eternal suffering.

Science is starting to understand that the universe has always existed in some form, maybe we did exist before this life when the universe was in another form and maybe after this life we will become another form when the universe takes on its next.

 

Science has determined no such thing. You tell yourself that so you can comfort yourself.

[OrdinaryClay]

 

 

 

 

 

Fact , no one including you bases their lives on all empirical evidence. Anyone who tells you this is either lying or an internet parrot.

 

So how do you determine what is true?

 

 

The same faulty, subjective, hit-and-miss process that I would imagine you use.  If I imagine wrongly, then please correct me.  After all I've admitted to being genuinely puzzled about certain aspects of your behavior and this is another area of puzzlement on my part.  I've also stated that I'm serious about this, so I'll re-state and confirm that.

 

 

How do you determine what is true?  What is your starting point?  How do you compensate for our all-too-obvious human biases?  

 

BAA

 

I build a belief structure through reason and evidence. This leaves gaps, but does provide a sound infrastructure. I either live with the gaps as inconsequential because of my belief structure or I pursue them further. I may never come to a good conclusion.

 

The net result for me is:

1) I believe in and worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

2) I have areas I don't understand and that is fine.

 

 

Thank you for your response Clay.

 

However, it contains information about you that I was already aware of.  You will also have known that I already knew these things about you.  Unless you missed post #198 (quoted below in blue text) you would also have been aware that I'm addressing you on the level and looking to you for more than that which I already know.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Ok then Clay, I won't drag anyone else into this and I'll offer up only myself as an example.

 

Let's say that you're right and that I'm shit scared, just as you say I am.  And that I'll jump thru absurd hoops to avoid believing in the supernatural.  Now, if I admit to this and own up to these things, do you have any further input to make on my behalf or is that it?  I'm scared shitless and you're finished with me or I'm scared shitless and there's something else?

 

Please note that I'm not ****ing around here, Clay.  I see that you're deadly serious and I'll match that seriousness.  But I'm also genuinely puzzled by your persistence and equally puzzled as to the reason for it.  Is it your job to scare me and leave me hanging in terror or does your job involve something else?

 

"Yes, my job involves something else." ...would be an accurate but unhelpful response from you.  So, seeing as I am serious I'm going to place myself in a vulnerable position and ask you to please be helpful towards me.  Please help me understand why you are here and what you are doing... because I currently understand neither.

 

I await your (hopefully) helpful response.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After reading the above Clay, you'll now be aware that I'm genuinely and earnestly looking to understand how you think.  So a reply that simply re-hashes what I already know about you, even though it fulfills the letter of my request, does nothing to match the spirit in which I put the questions to you.  Therefore, still hoping that you can find it within youself to respond to me with more than the most rigid adherence to the letter of my requests, I look forward to two specific responses from you. 

 

Firstly, a point-by-point reply to post #198, quoted above. 

 

Secondly, a more informative response to these questions.

 

How do you determine what is true? 

What is your starting point? 

How do you compensate for our all-too-obvious human biases? 

 

I know that you have the capacity within you to fully understand what I mean in these questions and that you also have the ability to compensate for any lack of clarity on my part.  I know that you also have the time and the opportunity to respond to these questions with far more detail and far greater levels of explanation than you've so far displayed. 

 

If there is something that is holding you back and preventing you from being more forthcoming and more helpful - then I simply do not know what that is.

 

Now, having outlined my position as fully as I believe I'm able to, I await your response.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

Actually I though I did answer your questions. They were general questions after all. Are you asking for a specific example? I can do that if you like.

 

You are the one who has went on some mission to find where I've posted all over the internet, which is fine by me, btw, but you must of noticed I've went into detail in many places on many subjects so my approach seems pretty clear. I do in fact combine science, reason and faith.

[Dhampir]

First, I didn't say they were ALL scammers, just that the ones that didn't genuinely experience the happenings were scammers.  Kinda goes without saying.

 

It took all of a 2 second google search to learn what Veridical meant.  They HAVE developed more plausible ideas about how that particular type of NDE happens that doesn't involve the inexplicable. For one, patients either just going under, or just about to come out from anesthesia experience sounds and tactile sensations, around which the brain can construct a rather elaborate and in many cases accurate visual picture of what's going on. It is somewhat akin to hearing something in the real world, and having it incorporate into your dream.  Somewhat.  As for the rest, well, you pretty much know what to expect from surgery, and there's a finite set of circumstances most of the time in these cases, so simple coincidence explains that suitably.  Again, it took 2 seconds to learn this.

 

Science has indeed seen evidence that the universe likely always existed in some form or another. It does NOT say that there was ever completely "nothing".  Kinda bad form to constantly accuse people of ulterior motives for everything they say.  Particularly without proof-- doesn't do much to further the dialogue.

[OrdinaryClay]

 

What if tarot is real? What if the hideous abominations of the left hand path are real? What if kali is real?

 

I see many on here dance around other spiritual followings. It's uncool among skeptics to actually openly embrace the possibility that this stuff is stone cold ******* real. I believe there are some on here that know just how real the spiritual world is and mute their words.

 

Well I ask you, what if it's real? Do you really believe the thin veil called death is simply eternal unconsciousness.

I never posted a comment about the op, so I will now.

 

If the tarot and other things like it are real and if unclean spirits (demons) use these things to contact and manipulate us, people who are involed with these things are being deeply decieved by these spirits.

 

But this analogy is only based on the christian doctrine of god and satan, so once you take that doctrine away you are left with any explaination and anology to "what if tarot is real?"

 

Your op was a loaded question, your trying to get people to assume that if the tarot is real then it has something to do with the doctrine of god and satan. But that would only work on someone who already has a pre concieved idea that god and satan are real or that the analogy of unclean spirits trying to decieve humankind is true.

 

That I believe they are demonic deceptions is true and should be obvious to everyone. The question is not loaded because you are free to answer with any assumptions you like.

[Ouroboros]

What if tarot is real? What if the hideous abominations of the left hand path are real? What if kali is real?

And what if Mohammed was right?

 

I see many on here dance around other spiritual followings.

Many? Really? Have you counted?

 

It's uncool among skeptics to actually openly embrace the possibility that this stuff is stone cold ******* real.

??? This is the site for Ex-Christians, not the site of Skeptics United. People are skeptical, but can embrace other things. Isn't that what you're doing? You're begin skeptical to tarot cards and Allah, but very embracing of your religion, so perhaps you shouldn't be so angry.

 

I believe there are some on here that know just how real the spiritual world is and mute their words.

 

Well I ask you, what if it's real? Do you really believe the thin veil called death is simply eternal unconsciousness.

Eternal unconsciousness? Can't compute. Don't know what it is. Don't know doesn't mean what you believe must be right and that's what we all should "know". Perhaps there's a life after death. Perhaps the definition of death is wrong if that's the case since life and death are the opposites. Perhaps this. Perhaps that. Perhaps doesn't make life better.

 

I think you're just a very angry religious person who needs people to believe that same things as you or you feel threatened. And that's the reason you're here. We're a threat to you for not believing in your religion. Just get used to it. People won't agree with you just because you're angry.

[OrdinaryClay]

So what if Tarot happens to be real? Who cares? Tarot will not murder you or your loved ones for not believing in it. Tarot is a graphic way of meditation on a problem to find a course of action. I don't care if Tarot is real or not, no matter how real or unreal Tarot is, the Christian god is even deader.

I thought the question was obvious but apparently not or maybe some people fear the answer. Not sure.

 

If kali is real what does that say about the greater nature of reality?

[OrdinaryClay]

 

 

And will kill to get it.

Your words make no sense ...

1) He has no needs so He it makes no sense He would do as you say.

2) He created us so our physical bodies are His.

3) The act of causing physical death carries no meaning for the omnipotent creator.

 

And do not presume to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father,' for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham.

(Mat 3:9)

Any proof of those claims outside the big book of Jewish fairy tales?

 

Is there any proof you understand what proof is?

[centauri]

 

 

And will kill to get it.

 

Your words make no sense ...

1) He has no needs so He it makes no sense He would do as you say.

2) He created us so our physical bodies are His.

3) The act of causing physical death carries no meaning for the omnipotent creator.

 

And do not presume to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father,' for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham.

(Mat 3:9)

 

 

You're not grasping what you wrote, which was that God wants love and submission.

 

 

1) The Christian god will kill or roast all those that fail to submit to his desire of wanting love and submission.

 

 

2) Claiming that human bodies are God's property doesn't cleanse God from using torture and killing to get his way.

    If God truly needed nothing, then he wouldn't have to enforce his wants with brute force.

 

 

3) You're basing behavior on an abstract that can never be held accountable under any definition.

    In other words, your version of God can have desires that are so strong that he has to destroy 

    things to satisfy his need, but  since your God is never accountable, it's of no concern to 

    anyone.

    Being deemed above the law doesn't lessen the condition of having a need, it merely sanitizes

    it.

 

 

This is the same "God" that created life ,knowing ahead of time that he would regret it.

He then floods the world, killing off most of his creation to rid the world of wickedness, knowing ahead of time that his solution wouldn't work.

Then he gives laws that require the deaths of more animals as burnt offerings.

Obviously this "God" has desires and wants.

Those desires are so strong that they can easily be classified as needs.

He needs these things badly enough to kill and destroy in order to obtain them.

[par4dcourse]

 

 

Science is starting to understand .......

 

Science has determined no such thing.

How did you get from "starting to understand" to "determined"?

I understand enough biology to smell BS and enough psychology to recognize deflection, sport.

[OrdinaryClay]

First, I didn't say they were ALL scammers, just that the ones that didn't genuinely experience the happenings were scammers.  Kinda goes without saying.

 

It took all of a 2 second google search to learn what Veridical meant.  They HAVE developed more plausible ideas about how that particular type of NDE happens that doesn't involve the inexplicable. For one, patients either just going under, or just about to come out from anesthesia experience sounds and tactile sensations, around which the brain can construct a rather elaborate and in many cases accurate visual picture of what's going on. It is somewhat akin to hearing something in the real world, and having it incorporate into your dream.  Somewhat.  As for the rest, well, you pretty much know what to expect from surgery, and there's a finite set of circumstances most of the time in these cases, so simple coincidence explains that suitably.  Again, it took 2 seconds to learn this.

 

Science has indeed determined that the universe likely always existed in some form or another. It does NOT say that there was ever completely "nothing".  Kinda bad form to constantly accuse people of ulterior motives for everything they say.  Particularly without proof-- doesn't do much to further the dialogue.

2 seconds worth of study will result in little understanding and even less credibility. Kind of goes with out saying.

 

No science does not say the universe has always existed in some form or another.

[florduh]

When people disagree with a True Christian, it can't be for any legitimate reason, but rather they must fear (and secretly believe) the True Christian may be right. Either that, or they just don't correctly divine the Word.

 

This is the case because the True Christian can't possibly be wrong and he can't rest until everyone agrees with him.

 

OC, what is your purpose for coming around here among the Ex-Christians? You were already asked about this but perhaps I missed your response; my apologies if I did.

[OrdinaryClay]

 

What if tarot is real? What if the hideous abominations of the left hand path are real? What if kali is real?

And what if Mohammed was right?

Then Christianity is wrong. Obviously. It is kind of silly to think I have not thought through that scenario.

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fact , no one including you bases their lives on all empirical evidence. Anyone who tells you this is either lying or an internet parrot.

 

So how do you determine what is true?

 

 

The same faulty, subjective, hit-and-miss process that I would imagine you use.  If I imagine wrongly, then please correct me.  After all I've admitted to being genuinely puzzled about certain aspects of your behavior and this is another area of puzzlement on my part.  I've also stated that I'm serious about this, so I'll re-state and confirm that.

 

 

How do you determine what is true?  What is your starting point?  How do you compensate for our all-too-obvious human biases?  

 

BAA

 

I build a belief structure through reason and evidence. This leaves gaps, but does provide a sound infrastructure. I either live with the gaps as inconsequential because of my belief structure or I pursue them further. I may never come to a good conclusion.

 

The net result for me is:

1) I believe in and worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

2) I have areas I don't understand and that is fine.

 

 

Thank you for your response Clay.

 

However, it contains information about you that I was already aware of.  You will also have known that I already knew these things about you.  Unless you missed post #198 (quoted below in blue text) you would also have been aware that I'm addressing you on the level and looking to you for more than that which I already know.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Ok then Clay, I won't drag anyone else into this and I'll offer up only myself as an example.

 

Let's say that you're right and that I'm shit scared, just as you say I am.  And that I'll jump thru absurd hoops to avoid believing in the supernatural.  Now, if I admit to this and own up to these things, do you have any further input to make on my behalf or is that it?  I'm scared shitless and you're finished with me or I'm scared shitless and there's something else?

 

Please note that I'm not ****ing around here, Clay.  I see that you're deadly serious and I'll match that seriousness.  But I'm also genuinely puzzled by your persistence and equally puzzled as to the reason for it.  Is it your job to scare me and leave me hanging in terror or does your job involve something else?

 

"Yes, my job involves something else." ...would be an accurate but unhelpful response from you.  So, seeing as I am serious I'm going to place myself in a vulnerable position and ask you to please be helpful towards me.  Please help me understand why you are here and what you are doing... because I currently understand neither.

 

I await your (hopefully) helpful response.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After reading the above Clay, you'll now be aware that I'm genuinely and earnestly looking to understand how you think.  So a reply that simply re-hashes what I already know about you, even though it fulfills the letter of my request, does nothing to match the spirit in which I put the questions to you.  Therefore, still hoping that you can find it within youself to respond to me with more than the most rigid adherence to the letter of my requests, I look forward to two specific responses from you. 

 

Firstly, a point-by-point reply to post #198, quoted above. 

 

Secondly, a more informative response to these questions.

 

How do you determine what is true? 

What is your starting point? 

How do you compensate for our all-too-obvious human biases? 

 

I know that you have the capacity within you to fully understand what I mean in these questions and that you also have the ability to compensate for any lack of clarity on my part.  I know that you also have the time and the opportunity to respond to these questions with far more detail and far greater levels of explanation than you've so far displayed. 

 

If there is something that is holding you back and preventing you from being more forthcoming and more helpful - then I simply do not know what that is.

 

Now, having outlined my position as fully as I believe I'm able to, I await your response.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

Actually I though I did answer your questions. They were general questions after all. Are you asking for a specific example? I can do that if you like.

 

You are the one who has went on some mission to find where I've posted all over the internet, which is fine by me, btw, but you must of noticed I've went into detail in many places on many subjects so my approach seems pretty clear. I do in fact combine science, reason and faith.

 

 

Ok then.  One specific example.

 

Please describe the reason/s why you post in this forum, taking no less than five hundred words to do so, none of these words coming from any other source than yourself.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA

[Ouroboros]

 

 

What if tarot is real? What if the hideous abominations of the left hand path are real? What if kali is real?

And what if Mohammed was right?

 

Then Christianity is wrong. Obviously. It is kind of silly to think I have not thought through that scenario.

 

If Mohammed was right, then you're screwed.

 

It's kind of silly to think that we haven't thought about the "perhaps if X is true" scenarios either.

 

Maybe the whole problem is that you're very angry with people who disagree with your beliefs? Why else are you here?

[OrdinaryClay]

 

 

 

And will kill to get it.

 

Your words make no sense ...

1) He has no needs so He it makes no sense He would do as you say.

2) He created us so our physical bodies are His.

3) The act of causing physical death carries no meaning for the omnipotent creator.

 

And do not presume to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father,' for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham.

(Mat 3:9)

 

 

You're not grasping what you wrote, which was that God wants love and submission.

I don't think you're grasping the difference between needs and wants.

[OrdinaryClay]

 

 

Science is starting to understand .......

Science has determined no such thing.

How did you get from "starting to understand" to "determined"?

I understand enough biology to smell BS and enough psychology to recognize deflection, sport.

 

The implication was that "starting to understand" meant humans can feel comfortable that no creator is needed. This is a false hope. It is a psychological crutch used by those who want to deflect any implication God exists.

 

Science is not "starting to understand" any such thing.On the contrary.

[OrdinaryClay]

When people disagree with a True Christian, it can't be for any legitimate reason, but rather they must fear (and secretly believe) the True Christian may be right. Either that, or they just don't correctly divine the Word.

 

This is the case because the True Christian can't possibly be wrong and he can't rest until everyone agrees with him.

 

s/True Christian/Atheist/g

[Dhampir]

Science doesn't recognize you as an enemy.  You're fighting a battle that your opponent doesn't realize or care is happening.

 

An aside, A "want" is a manifestation of emotional deficiency, namely dissatisfaction.  A want therefore is a need.  There can be no wanting if everything is as you desire it.

[OrdinaryClay]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fact , no one including you bases their lives on all empirical evidence. Anyone who tells you this is either lying or an internet parrot.

 

So how do you determine what is true?

 

 

The same faulty, subjective, hit-and-miss process that I would imagine you use.  If I imagine wrongly, then please correct me.  After all I've admitted to being genuinely puzzled about certain aspects of your behavior and this is another area of puzzlement on my part.  I've also stated that I'm serious about this, so I'll re-state and confirm that.

 

 

How do you determine what is true?  What is your starting point?  How do you compensate for our all-too-obvious human biases?  

 

BAA

 

I build a belief structure through reason and evidence. This leaves gaps, but does provide a sound infrastructure. I either live with the gaps as inconsequential because of my belief structure or I pursue them further. I may never come to a good conclusion.

 

The net result for me is:

1) I believe in and worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

2) I have areas I don't understand and that is fine.

 

 

Thank you for your response Clay.

 

However, it contains information about you that I was already aware of.  You will also have known that I already knew these things about you.  Unless you missed post #198 (quoted below in blue text) you would also have been aware that I'm addressing you on the level and looking to you for more than that which I already know.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Ok then Clay, I won't drag anyone else into this and I'll offer up only myself as an example.

 

Let's say that you're right and that I'm shit scared, just as you say I am.  And that I'll jump thru absurd hoops to avoid believing in the supernatural.  Now, if I admit to this and own up to these things, do you have any further input to make on my behalf or is that it?  I'm scared shitless and you're finished with me or I'm scared shitless and there's something else?

 

Please note that I'm not ****ing around here, Clay.  I see that you're deadly serious and I'll match that seriousness.  But I'm also genuinely puzzled by your persistence and equally puzzled as to the reason for it.  Is it your job to scare me and leave me hanging in terror or does your job involve something else?

 

"Yes, my job involves something else." ...would be an accurate but unhelpful response from you.  So, seeing as I am serious I'm going to place myself in a vulnerable position and ask you to please be helpful towards me.  Please help me understand why you are here and what you are doing... because I currently understand neither.

 

I await your (hopefully) helpful response.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After reading the above Clay, you'll now be aware that I'm genuinely and earnestly looking to understand how you think.  So a reply that simply re-hashes what I already know about you, even though it fulfills the letter of my request, does nothing to match the spirit in which I put the questions to you.  Therefore, still hoping that you can find it within youself to respond to me with more than the most rigid adherence to the letter of my requests, I look forward to two specific responses from you. 

 

Firstly, a point-by-point reply to post #198, quoted above. 

 

Secondly, a more informative response to these questions.

 

How do you determine what is true? 

What is your starting point? 

How do you compensate for our all-too-obvious human biases? 

 

I know that you have the capacity within you to fully understand what I mean in these questions and that you also have the ability to compensate for any lack of clarity on my part.  I know that you also have the time and the opportunity to respond to these questions with far more detail and far greater levels of explanation than you've so far displayed. 

 

If there is something that is holding you back and preventing you from being more forthcoming and more helpful - then I simply do not know what that is.

 

Now, having outlined my position as fully as I believe I'm able to, I await your response.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

Actually I though I did answer your questions. They were general questions after all. Are you asking for a specific example? I can do that if you like.

 

You are the one who has went on some mission to find where I've posted all over the internet, which is fine by me, btw, but you must of noticed I've went into detail in many places on many subjects so my approach seems pretty clear. I do in fact combine science, reason and faith.

 

 

Ok then.  One specific example.

 

Please describe the reason/s why you post in this forum, taking no less than five hundred words to do so, none of these words coming from any other source than yourself.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA

 

I think you are being disingenuous. Why I post on here does not answer the question of how I determine truth.

[OrdinaryClay]

 

 

 

What if tarot is real? What if the hideous abominations of the left hand path are real? What if kali is real?

And what if Mohammed was right?

 

Then Christianity is wrong. Obviously. It is kind of silly to think I have not thought through that scenario.

 

If Mohammed was right, then you're screwed.

 

It's kind of silly to think that we haven't thought about the "perhaps if X is true" scenarios either.

 

Maybe the whole problem is that you're very angry with people who disagree with your beliefs? Why else are you here?

 

Why do you have a forum called the Lion's Den?

[OrdinaryClay]

Science doesn't recognize you as an enemy.  You're fighting a battle that your opponent doesn't realize or care is happening.

 

An aside, A "want" is a manifestation of emotional deficiency, namely dissatisfaction.  A want therefore is a need.  There can be no wanting if everything is as you desire it.

It is a very sad thought to think you believe wanting happiness for your loved ones is because of an emotional deficiency. The degree people will go to reject God never ceases to amaze me.

[florduh]

The degree people will go to reject God never ceases to amaze me.

 

 

 

Are you being deliberately dense here? I can't believe you are actually a stupid person.

[Ouroboros]

Why do you have a forum called the Lion's Den?

To have discussions.

 

So why are you here and why are you so angry?

 

You won't discuss that?

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

 

 

 

 

And will kill to get it.

 

Your words make no sense ...

1) He has no needs so He it makes no sense He would do as you say.

2) He created us so our physical bodies are His.

3) The act of causing physical death carries no meaning for the omnipotent creator.

 

And do not presume to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father,' for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham.

(Mat 3:9)

 

 

You're not grasping what you wrote, which was that God wants love and submission.

I don't think you're grasping the difference between needs and wants.

 

 

With Bible god's behavior in the Bible, it is difficult to tell if love and submission is what he wants or needs. It appears as though he either needs these things or just wants these things from humans so badly that he is willing to torture people for a long time after death for not getting it. It seems that he either needs them or wants them so badly that he would be willing to create a human puppet to preach to people and to teach them things that contradict his commands in the Old Testament and then kill it so he could suck in more believers with a new religion. If he does not need love and submission, then he must want it very, very, very badly.

 

 

 

When people disagree with a True Christian, it can't be for any legitimate reason, but rather they must fear (and secretly believe) the True Christian may be right. Either that, or they just don't correctly divine the Word.

 

This is the case because the True Christian can't possibly be wrong and he can't rest until everyone agrees with him.

 

OC, what is your purpose for coming around here among the Ex-Christians? You were already asked about this but perhaps I missed your response; my apologies if I did.

 

He is probably horrified that we have all decided to be freely thinking individuals instead of obedient sheep or cyborgs who no longer desire to serve or worship his invisible shepherd who lives in the sky and looks like Joseph Stalin. Oh yes, he has no beard, just the Stalin mustache... It is my guess that he is here to bring us back into the hive or herd by telling us how wrong we are. Or maybe he looks more like Saddam Hussein before he was captured, since he was a god invented in the Middle East, after all.

[♦ ficino ♦]

 

 

Science is starting to understand .......

Science has determined no such thing.

How did you get from "starting to understand" to "determined"?

I understand enough biology to smell BS and enough psychology to recognize deflection, sport.

 

OC has misrepresented someone's post, as he's done with this one of yours, many, many times.