Guest afireinside Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Is this a wind-up? I think we covered that with the starving child pic! Would you not act if you were God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Is this a wind-up? I think we covered that with the starving child pic! Would you not act if you were God? The question was not only about the child but the world. What would you do you do about the evil and the suffering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtify Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Well, if I was god I wouldn't have made it in the first place. What do you make of Isaiah 45:7? "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Good old god's way of ending "evil" and "suffering" Num 31 31 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people.” 15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. Praise jesus? nah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Is this a wind-up? I think we covered that with the starving child pic! Would you not act if you were God? The question was not only about the child but the world. What would you do you do about the evil and the suffering? If I had the power to create it, to will it and endorse it I'd take a long hard look in the mirror then get off my ass and recreate the past the present and the future and if I couldn't do that I'd kill myself from shear weight of guilt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantophobia Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Ironhorse, we have explained plainly what we would do. If God takes the credit, God can take the blame. You know this...... What would you do if YOU were God? If you could reverse all the bad, start again and eliminate all this holding innocent people to account for his failures, would you do it? Please post where it was explained plainly. And you expect us to take you seriously about your interpretations of the bible when your reading comprehension clearly sucks this bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violetbutterfly Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 The question again. Lets suppose you had the power, what would you do to relieve all the suffering? I know people--including myself--who are working to (for example) help welfare-to-work women transition into the workplace with needed attire and all of the assistance that goes with job searches, doing homework and being "big siblings" to children who have been abused, escorting women to and from Planned Parenthood where a gauntlet of "loving Christians" scream abuse and call them murderers (even when they are just going to pick up birth control pills), fighting at the local and federal level so that all citizens of the US can be legally married and their families protected, fighting on an international level so that gays won't be murdered outright in their own countries or little girls married to old men against their wills or women's genitals mutilated in the name of chastity... all edicts of your "God," btw. Ironhorse and other Christians claim God is merciful and loving, but if that were true, several of my friends wouldn't've spent term break helping to bring water to a village in Africa so that the children that don't die of AIDS first don't then die of cholera. Or let's talk about the nurse practitioner friend who donates spare days to seeing clients for free at his city's homeless shelter. Or my friend in Singapore helping to fight child prostitution rings. No four year old needs to be raped repeatedly and infected with multiple STDs in order to be "tested" and "grow stronger" in your God's love. That isn't love. That isn't mercy. That's sadism. It is abundantly clear that neither "God" nor Christians have the market cornered on mercy or love, so don't even start that "hat would you do?" crap here, Ironhorse. I can't speak for everyone else, but I will happily and without regret hand you your ass if you do, because I know too many people who ARE doing more than you, or your "God" to try to make this crap world a better place for all its inhabitants... conditions that would not be nearly as dire without your "God" and religion in the first place. I'm not sure what is unclear. It's not what they "would do" it's what they are already doing. And they don't have the power to instantly stop the suffering they created. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 The question again. Most here feel free to blame God for the evil and suffering on earth. Lets suppose you had the power, what would you do to relieve all the suffering? Please refer back to post #194. It's not that we really blame God. We just infer that God doesn't exist because suffering continues even though people pray to God about relieving that suffering. If I was God, I'd snap my fingers and magically relieve all suffering. Is it really that difficult if you're God? "All things are possible with God (Matthew 19:26)", right? Says so, right there in your holy book. If I was God, I'd snap my fingers and take away all suffering as easily as the supposed God of the bible snapped his fingers and created the whole fucking universe. You believe other shit in the bible without question. Why would you question the 'how' of God just relieving all suffering with a wave of his magic wand? Unless of course you don't believe it's possible... --------- Are all things (like relieving all suffering, for instance) possible with your God? I don't expect an answer really. I figure you'll just keep deflecting or make excuses or generally ignore the common sense answers we already gave you because you need to cover up the fact that your God is either powerless, doesn't care or more likely non-existent. You don't really believe your God has power any more than I do. But the difference between you and me is you think God's real and I think he's only imagination. An all merciful God wouldn't let anyone suffer. An imaginary God would not have any power to help suffering. Evidence points to the non-existence of God, imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted April 20, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted April 20, 2014 The question again. Most here feel free to blame God for the evil and suffering on earth. Lets suppose you had the power, what would you do to relieve all the suffering? So, you ask the question again without dealing with any of the comments made from the first time you asked it? Classy move, TinPony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Correct midniterider. Hypothetically, if a God did exist he would be to blame. You are right though, God can't act because God doesn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 The question again. Most here feel free to blame God for the evil and suffering on earth. Lets suppose you had the power, what would you do to relieve all the suffering? So, you ask the question again without dealing with any of the comments made from the first time you asked it? Classy move, TinPony. He asks again because he doesn't really want to have to ask himself why God does nothing to stop suffering. It's one of those questions that start breaking the spell of Christianity if you really really start to think about it. Christians don't really really want to think about things. Thinking is evil, right Ironhorse? Have you ever dared to think that Jesus may in reality just be your imagination? Think about it. Jesus never shows up in person. Jesus never talks to people. How do you ever verify that the thoughts that you claim come from Jesus aren't really your own thoughts? I dare you to consider the possibility that Jesus is imaginary. For just 5 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Duuude! That's not scriptural. If God allowed us the potential to fall and sin the first time he MUST allow that again or take away all power of choice and individuality What do you think about when you're in Heaven and there's billions of people in pain in hell? "Ironhorse you are saying we have personalities in Heaven. Satan had his own personality and sinned in Heaven so their must be some kind of free will to sin and defy God." afireinside, I just read what you said after I posted the following.... My view of Heaven is scriptural. Our tendency (nature) to be influence by sin will be removed. Should God deny free will to those who do not want this sin removed and drag them kicking and screaming into Heaven? Genesis 11 4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. 5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. 6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Since your view of heaven is so scriptural could you please tell us how tall a building must be in order to reach unto heaven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Ironhorse, we have explained plainly what we would do. If God takes the credit, God can take the blame. You know this...... What would you do if YOU were God? If you could reverse all the bad, start again and eliminate all this holding innocent people to account for his failures, would you do it? Please post where it was explained plainly. Post #184 by Kris. This was upvoted by Pantophobia and Ravenstar. (I would have as well if I didn't keep running out of upvotes) Post #186 by afireinside. Post 188 by Roz. Post 189 by xtify. Post 194 by midnightrider. Upvoted by FreeThinkerNZ. And each one is more clear and better written than the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 “Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.” ― Marcus Aurelius, Meditations Marcus sums it up in this quote. It's not rocket science, nor should it be. If one man can so eloquently explain something so profound then a god should be able to do better. Aurelius not only explained it well - he lived his philosophy, he was true to his values. Just one example.. i worship no one man or philosophy - but take wisdom where I can and permit myself the freedom to choose for myself. This is the problem with christianity - it negates real choice. There is no true freedom in it. It is moral slavery. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I answered you. And my answer was extremely clear. Are you ignoring it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Nice quote Ravenstar! Marcus seems like a very smart guy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJG Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Is this a wind-up? I think we covered that with the starving child pic! Would you not act if you were God? The question was not only about the child but the world. What would you do you do about the evil and the suffering? You're quite dense. If God can make a heaven without suffering, why couldn't he make an earth without suffering? It's a simple question. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted April 20, 2014 Author Share Posted April 20, 2014 If a company negligently manufactures automobiles which prove to be defective and that defect leads to injuries to the purchaser, our law holds the manufacturer responsible. The manufacturer Is required to compensate the injured purchaser and to correct the defect in all models, including a recall in which the defect is fixed to prevent further injuries. If the God of the Bible exists, he should compensate all people for his defective world by ensuring all are fed and otherwise have the basic necessities of life. He should search the hearts of all political leaders and immediately remove those who do not have the best interests of the people in their hearts and replace them with leaders who do. He should make all nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons non-functional without further delay. He should cause rain to fall where needed, teach proper agricultural methods where such knowledge does not exist. He should cure and prevent all future cancers, heart disease, kidney failures, HIV, etc. Finally and most importantly, he should clearly and unambiguously reveal himself to ALL people and explain what he expects from people, explain what in the Bible is true and what is not, explain that NO ONE must ever be mistreated in the name of ANY religion. He should also apologize for not making such an appearance before so many people had been killed in his name, or scared with talk of hell, or despised because of their sexual orientation or having another religion or rejecting all religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 The question again. Most here feel free to blame God for the evil and suffering on earth. Lets suppose you had the power, what would you do to relieve all the suffering? Who are you to re-state questions to us when you've still got a pile of questions filling up your 'In' tray? Let's see a little more application and a little less dodging from you, when it comes to answering the questions we put to you. Ficino, myself and others are STILL waiting! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottsman Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 The question again. Most here feel free to blame God for the evil and suffering on earth. Lets suppose you had the power, what would you do to relieve all the suffering? For a start I wouldnt have made the effort to go out of the way and create deadly viruses and bacteria. I also wouldnt have commanded murder, rape, genocide, genital mutilation etc See god doesnt not fix things. He actively messes them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 … Most here feel free to blame God for the evil and suffering on earth. … Most here do not believe your particular God exists in the first place. They only temporarily assume your particular God exists, for the purpose of rational discourse and for sake of the argument. Further assumptions are made based on the text from the Bible. That text is temporarily assumed to be true, again for the purpose of rational discourse and for sake of the argument. Part of those assumptions is that your particular God is omniscient and omnipotent. Omniscience means, among other things, awareness of all events of the future and of all consequences of action. If your particular God created everything, it knew before the creation that evil and suffering would arise within that creation. Because this particular God is also omnipotent, it had the power to create without this consequence (i.e., evil and suffering). Accordingly, your particular God is responsible for making a creation in which evil and suffering exists. Most here also distinguish between actors that create evil or suffering. In many cases, evil and suffering are primarily caused by human actions. But the original actor which caused the conditions which allow for this is your particular God. And, of course, there are events which cause suffering which are not caused by humans at all, such as earthquakes, tsunamis and similar events. That suffering is certainly not caused by humans. It is caused by the design of your particular God's creation. Now, back to reality. Since your particular God does not exist in the first place, and is a mere fiction, it cannot be responsible for evil and suffering. … Lets suppose you had the power, what would you do to relieve all the suffering? Please define what power I would have. Whatever that power is, what I would do with that power would depend on my character, morals and ethics. Am I omnibenevolent? If so, I would do everything in my power to avoid evil and suffering, and I would have done so when I created things to begin with. If I am not omnibenevolent, I may not. According to the Bible (assuming the text is true), your particular God is a little shit, with significant character flaws and a healthy lack of morals and ethics. So it is not surprising at all that your particular God (assuming it exists) has done nothing to address his own evil actions or the suffering which so clearly exists. But again, let's return back to reality. All I can do, based on my character, morals and ethics, is to do my best not to cause evil or suffering, and to encourage others to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Is this a wind-up? I think we covered that with the starving child pic! Would you not act if you were God? The question was not only about the child but the world. What would you do you do about the evil and the suffering? You're quite dense. If God can make a heaven without suffering, why couldn't he make an earth without suffering? It's a simple question. Awesome point of logic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantophobia Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I love that IH has managed, once again, to deflect answering anything concrete himself by positing a hypothetical situation that WILL NEVER EVER EVER HAPPEN for the rest of us. What about you, Horsey? What would YOU do about the world's evil and suffering? What HAVE you done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I love that IH has managed, once again, to deflect answering anything concrete himself by positing a hypothetical situation that WILL NEVER EVER EVER HAPPEN for the rest of us. What about you, Horsey? What would YOU do about the world's evil and suffering? What HAVE you done? I was the one who asked the question. What would you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violetbutterfly Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I love that IH has managed, once again, to deflect answering anything concrete himself by positing a hypothetical situation that WILL NEVER EVER EVER HAPPEN for the rest of us. What about you, Horsey? What would YOU do about the world's evil and suffering? What HAVE you done? I was the one who asked the question. What would you do? My fucking brain hurts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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