1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 .......So question is not what not when not HOW but WHY is there something rather than not something?....can we create something with absolutely no resources to use? Can we as have humans create something without any pre existing materials to play with? So WHY is the universe in existence? Is it true athiest dont like the whys? But why? Are you afraid? Not assuming just asking why? Is it because why begs the question? Because it insinuates a built in idea? I stated in previous topic science cannot answer the why only the how because it is amoral and impersonal so why is it that we have morals and personality today if we came from a singularity that was amoral and impersonal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Science is still working on it. That's good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falemon Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 .......So question is not what not when not HOW but WHY is there something rather than not something?....can we create something with absolutely no resources to use? Can we as have humans create something without any pre existing materials to play with? So WHY is the universe in existence? Is it true athiest dont like the whys? But why? Are you afraid? Not assuming just asking why? Is it because why begs the question? Because it insinuates a built in idea? I stated in previous topic science cannot answer the why only the how because it is amoral and impersonal so why is it that we have morals and personality today if we came from a singularity that was amoral and impersonal? Young man you are presuming a lot that is undeniably untrue. 1: Why is the universe in existence? *From our vantage point, sitting on a ball of rock 90 million miles away from a nuclear fireball at the bottom of a deep gravity well, we are not at liberty to find out why we exist. The only "answers" comes from written texts claiming to be the word of a being that exists outside of the Universe and is not subject to cause and effect, though their claims are not backed up enough to justify the position of authority. So thus far there is absolutely no reasonable answer to why our Universe exists. 2: Why nobody, not even science can answer the why Simply put, we just don't have access to an existence outside of this universe. If I were to create a computerised simulation of a universe, and inside of it there were AI beings with equivalent human intelligence, everything that they do would be confined to the limitations of the computer program, and as such they could theorise until the cows come home, but they just wouldn't have access to this world. So for all we know, we could be just the same, a science experiment by a "higher" being, or even a lower being for that matter, that just happened to create a superior intelligence (this is possible, it's why computer AI dwarfs grandmaster chess players). Is that to suggest that we are the result of a higher being? Absolutely not, it's just a demonstration of how limited we are in being able to find an answer by looking at what is accessible. So then you come by claiming you have an answer from the external being, yet you cannot demonstrate anything to back up your claimed access to omniscience. You cannot tell me the location of Madeline McCann, restore the library of Alexandria, nor rescue the tens of thousands of sex slaves. NO, instead you require blind faith, or at least subjective faith. People have faith in lots of dumb shit, Christianity is not alone in the teachings of "faith". According to some schools of thought, ALL illnesses can be cured by believing they are cured, some by eating only natural foods, and further still there are those who believe you can change your DNA purely by intention. They believe these with full certainty and for that reason will ignore any aspect of reality that disproves it, meaning that we humans can believe any dumb shit we choose, no matter how absurd. So the question you Christians are afraid to ask is, how can you differentiate a valid belief from an absurd one? *: derived from Douglas Adam's quote: "The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be" 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pratt Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 why universe exists? god why stone exists? god why shit happens? god if you cannot find the reason, you can blame god 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 The answers of Bronze Age tribesmen work for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pratt Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 it was believed that virgin mary was 12-16 when she was impregnated by yhwh if the story is true,,,, so it is moral? genocide in OT is moral? why why why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryG Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Is it true athiest dont like the whys? But why? Are you afraid? Not assuming just asking why? Is it because why begs the question? Because it insinuates a built in idea? Jeez, I ask "why" all the time. And it's the christians who won't answer. Why would god require the bloody murder of his son? Why would a loving god invent anything as pointlessly sadistic as hell? Why won't god just tell each of us, individually, what he wants? Why didn't god know the value of pi? Why would god make a stupid, vicious bet with the devil when he's omnicient and already knows the outcome? (Job) Why didn't god ensure that the bible was written, start to finish, in clear, consistent, lucid terms that anyone on earth could understand? Why did god support slavery? Why did god like to order "his people" to commit genocide -- right down to the last infant and animal? Why would god refer to insects as "four-footed fowl"? Why does a perfect, timeless being require humans to slavishly worship him? Why would the all-powerful, immortal creator of the universe take such a special interest in one obscure planet among the billions and trillions .... that he hangs around watching us masturbate? Why? Non-believers have good reason for not answering questions like "Why does the universe exist?" Because the only answer is, "Nobody knows." Christians don't answer any of our "why" questions because looking at them honestly reveals god (and their religion) as a silly old fraud. Or worse, a vicious, murderous old fraud. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 .......So question is not what not when not HOW but WHY is there something rather than not something?....can we create something with absolutely no resources to use? Can we as have humans create something without any pre existing materials to play with? So WHY is the universe in existence? Is it true athiest dont like the whys? But why? Are you afraid? Not assuming just asking why? Is it because why begs the question? Because it insinuates a built in idea? I stated in previous topic science cannot answer the why only the how because it is amoral and impersonal so why is it that we have morals and personality today if we came from a singularity that was amoral and impersonal? Scientists do not know therefore I created the universe. I wrote the Holy Word of Me that says so. Why should you trust scientists who admit they don't know everything when you can trust My Holy Word that assures you that you can know why the universe exists? I created the universe because I was pissed off that day. Well what did you expect? Did you think the creator of a universe where cancer exists would make all that because he was happy? By the way, there is no reason to believe that the universe came from nothing. The "Big Bang" (or silent expansion) came from a dense singularity that was packed with material. That is not nothing. There might have been an infinite "somethings" before that. Atheists generally don't mind asking why. What they don't like is making up answers and pretending that is knowledge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted April 6, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted April 6, 2014 Ex Nihilo, Nihil Fit. http://www.bethinking.org/is-there-a-creator/ex-nihilo-nihil-fit-out-of-nothing-nothing-comes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted April 6, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted April 6, 2014 Atheists (and scientists) don't have all the answers. Theology has no answers at all, but they offer plenty of unsupported guesses to fill the gaps in our knowledge. "I don't know the answer, therefore God did it" is not a useful response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Science doesn't know why yet therefore god. And that god was obviously the christian/jewish/muslim god. Yes, seems logical. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 .......So question is not what not when not HOW but WHY is there something rather than not something?....can we create something with absolutely no resources to use? Can we as have humans create something without any pre existing materials to play with? So WHY is the universe in existence? Why is there something, rather than nothing? I don't know and neither do you (unless of course you're omniscient, otherwise you're a liar if you claim to know for certain why there is something, rather than nothing). Is it true athiest dont like the whys? But why? Are you afraid? Not assuming just asking why? Is it because why begs the question? Because it insinuates a built in idea? I have never met an atheist that disliked the "why" question, though 99.99% of them don't like it when people claim to already know the answer. To those people that claim to know the answer, the answer is usually, "The creator god of my religion is responsible." When asked how they know, they reply with, "I just know" or "my holy book says it is so and that is good enough for me". so why is it that we have morals and personality today if we came from a singularity that was amoral and impersonal? I don't know the answer to that either. Do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 .......So question is not what not when not HOW but WHY is there something rather than not something?... HOW do you know that the existence of nothing is possible or ever existed? This is your premise. Please demonstrate it is correct. .... .can we create something with absolutely no resources to use? Can we as have humans create something without any pre existing materials to play with? Irrelevant. What humans can or cannot do does not address questions concerning the origin or perpetuity of the Universe. .... So WHY is the universe in existence? … I do not know. And neither do you. ...Is it true athiest dont like the whys? But why? Are you afraid? Not assuming just asking why? Is it because why begs the question? Because it insinuates a built in idea? … It is quite possible that there are no answers to many "why" questions. Not everything has a "why". … I stated in previous topic science cannot answer the why only the how because it is amoral and impersonal so why is it that we have morals and personality today if we came from a singularity that was amoral and impersonal? Morals, personalities and many other things are emergent properties of certain combinations of matter and energy. Study hard. It's the only way you can cure your infection of "GODDIDIT". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 1........So question is not what not when not HOW but WHY is there something rather than not something? 2.....can we create something with absolutely no resources to use? 3.Can we as have humans create something without any pre existing materials to play with? 4. So WHY is the universe in existence? The answer to 1 thru 4 is that Inflationary theory tells that matter and energy have always existed in the eternal multiverse. Therefore, 1 thru 3 are non-questions. The answer to # 4 is that the multiverse has always existed and therefore needs no WHY to explain it. 5. Is it true athiest dont like the whys? 6. But why? 7. Are you afraid? 8. Not assuming just asking why? 9. Is it because why begs the question? 10. Because it insinuates a built in idea? 5 thru 10 their cue from Christian propaganda and disinformation, rather than any honest and genuine desire to understand what atheists really think. They are simply there to score points. I stated in previous topic science cannot answer the why only the how because it is amoral and impersonal so why is it that we have morals and personality today if we came from a singularity that was amoral and impersonal? Yes indeed, 1AAT1! Science is amoral and impersonal. That's exactly what it is and exactly and how it should be. Science shouldn't be tied to any moral system dictated by a religious belief. But if you can make a good case for science deriving it's moral basis from the Sikh religion, I'd be very interested to read it. The reason we have morals and personalities can be explained in one word - evolution. This singularity... Is this a purely Einsteinian singularity, as described by Penrose and Hawking? Being a time-reversed gravitational singularity hidden behind an event horizon? Or is this a naked singularity, where the cosmic censorship principle doesn't apply? If this singularity is described in purely Einsteinian terms, then that description is incomplete, lacking any provision for quantum effects, like Hawking radiation and quantum tunnelling. Are you really happy to use an incomplete description of the singularity in your argument? We came from a singularity (insert which kind here)... ? Who sez? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Is it true athiest dont like the whys? But why? Are you afraid? Not assuming just asking why? Is it because why begs the question? Because it insinuates a built in idea? Jeez, I ask "why" all the time. And it's the christians who won't answer. Why would god require the bloody murder of his son? Why would a loving god invent anything as pointlessly sadistic as hell? Why won't god just tell each of us, individually, what he wants? Why didn't god know the value of pi? Why would god make a stupid, vicious bet with the devil when he's omnicient and already knows the outcome? (Job) Why didn't god ensure that the bible was written, start to finish, in clear, consistent, lucid terms that anyone on earth could understand? Why did god support slavery? Why did god like to order "his people" to commit genocide -- right down to the last infant and animal? Why would god refer to insects as "four-footed fowl"? Why does a perfect, timeless being require humans to slavishly worship him? Why would the all-powerful, immortal creator of the universe take such a special interest in one obscure planet among the billions and trillions .... that he hangs around watching us masturbate? Why? Non-believers have good reason for not answering questions like "Why does the universe exist?" Because the only answer is, "Nobody knows." Christians don't answer any of our "why" questions because looking at them honestly reveals god (and their religion) as a silly old fraud. Or worse, a vicious, murderous old fraud. The real question here is... will our resident fundie answer any of your glorious questions, or will he (as is typical of fundies) simply ignore them? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francesco Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 I am now interesting with why, here are my questions for christians: why are christian try to explain the unexplainable like god? why are christians, which are human, try to explain god when you like to say human cannot understand god? why god is the answer for every questions? why is god care about human when human are a very tiny portion of universe? why are christians need to fulfil their christian's ego? why are christians so exclusive? why are christians so ignorant? why are christians so close-minded? why are christians so judgemental? why are christians so obsesses about sex life? why are christians so intolerant? why are christians so divided and hate the other denominations? why are christians so obsesses about NT and forget OT except when OT fit your view? why are christians so obsesses with heaven and rapture? why are christians want everybody else suffers in hell so badly? why are christians so obsesses with bible inerrancy and infalibility? why are christians need care about quantity of the phew rather than the quality? why are christians have a very different church and organization with the church and organization in the so called inerrant bible? why are christians love to feel persecuted when they don't know what is real persecution? why are christians reject science when they are using the results of science? why are christians so focusing on doctrines, dogmas, and tradition? why is christian theology becoming the way to preserve a belief system rather than teaching people to love your neighbours? why are christians so unlike their christ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted April 6, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted April 6, 2014 One simple question that may strike at the heart of this thread: Why would god(s) exist? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 .can we create something with absolutely no resources to use? Can we as have humans create something without any pre existing materials to play with? If there was a God prior to creating the universe, where did the resources come from that he used to create the heavens and the earth? And how did this God just 'come about' ? You can't get something from nothing (say some Christians) , but all of a sudden from nothing there's a God and he's creating the universe from nothing. A null set could be created without any resources. I could make a void without needing resources. Christians create a god in their minds that consumes no resources. Is it true athiest dont like the whys? But why? Are you afraid? Not assuming just asking why? Is it because why begs the question? Because it insinuates a built in idea? 'Why does anything exist' is just an opinion question. Christians like to use the why question as a lead-in to recruiting people to be robots for Christ. I stated in previous topic science cannot answer the why only the how because it is amoral and impersonal so why is it that we have morals and personality today if we came from a singularity that was amoral and impersonal? People have morals today because their parents taught them that harming other people causes pain. People generally dont like pain and suffering (wars and history shows this) so as society evolves people learned it is better not to harm each other and that we should all try to help each other. This idea really caught on. Did your parents not teach you how to be good to others? Human beings live very long and as such take a long time to learn how to be good people. About 18 years on average. If morality is a God given thing, doesn't that conflict with the idea that children are born with a sin nature? If morality is given to us by God, why bother with parenting? Why do Christians bother with parenting if God gives you morals? Let god handle it. I'll be watching Nascar. :-) If morality is only something that God hands out then why do priests keep screwing altar boys when they are supposed to be celibate and why are pastors , especially youth pastors getting arrested for seducing underage kids? And why are most of the prisoners in America listed as Christians? If God wants us to all love each other then why do right wing christards push legislation to prevent two people of the same sex from loving each other? Uh oh, I asked a bunch of 'why' questions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 .......So question is not what not when not HOW but WHY is there something rather than not something?....can we create something with absolutely no resources to use? Can we as have humans create something without any pre existing materials to play with? So WHY is the universe in existence? Is it true athiest dont like the whys? But why? Are you afraid? Not assuming just asking why? Is it because why begs the question? Because it insinuates a built in idea? I stated in previous topic science cannot answer the why only the how because it is amoral and impersonal so why is it that we have morals and personality today if we came from a singularity that was amoral and impersonal? Why do you believe in Jesus? Because someone claimed he existed and made you afraid to not believe in him? Because all your family members believe he exists? Because all your friends believe he exists? Why does he never appear like a human and speak to us like any other person? Why does the almighty God have a 'still small voice' instead of a powerful, commanding voice that you can actually hear with your ears? Why is it that God leads people to do something with their lives that is what they wanted to do anyway? Why don't you ever question God? Why don't you ever question the bible? Why don't you ever question concepts in Christian culture? Why do you allow other people to speak on behalf of God? Why do you speak on behalf of God? Why does God seem to be nothing more than one's imagination? Why does God say "No" to prayers sometimes? Why would this not indicate that God answering prayers is about the same as random chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Well, Brother Jeff, I think the Christian apologists that come here are more interested in infecting people with the self-replicating mind virus known as Christianity than really questioning their own beliefs. They just mindlessly do what their pastor tells them or what some other Christian tells them they should do. Which of course is recruiting. They just turn off brain and spread the word of Jebus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereisnoperfect Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 The prof has the important question here, I think. Our current resident Christian asks why there would be a universe instead of not being a universe. And we don't know. However, we do know that there is a universe. We can see it and touch it. We can compare our observations with those of others and find them to be consistent. So: why would there be a god rather than not a god? and if there is one, why can we not detect it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 I am now interesting with why, here are my questions for christians: why are christian try to explain the unexplainable like god? why are christians, which are human, try to explain god when you like to say human cannot understand god? why god is the answer for every questions? why is god care about human when human are a very tiny portion of universe? why are christians need to fulfil their christian's ego? why are christians so exclusive? why are christians so ignorant? why are christians so close-minded? why are christians so judgemental? why are christians so obsesses about sex life? why are christians so intolerant? why are christians so divided and hate the other denominations? why are christians so obsesses about NT and forget OT except when OT fit your view? why are christians so obsesses with heaven and rapture? why are christians want everybody else suffers in hell so badly? why are christians so obsesses with bible inerrancy and infalibility? why are christians need care about quantity of the phew rather than the quality? why are christians have a very different church and organization with the church and organization in the so called inerrant bible? why are christians love to feel persecuted when they don't know what is real persecution? why are christians reject science when they are using the results of science? why are christians so focusing on doctrines, dogmas, and tradition? why is christian theology becoming the way to preserve a belief system rather than teaching people to love your neighbours? why are christians so unlike their christ? Good list. I would love to see a xian try to address these questions but they always appear too scared to. I think the answer to many of these questions is: low self-esteem. Which seems to be caused by religious indoctrination in childhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 There should be no questions. Can God not relax his aloof stance and show us beyond doubt and save us from unbelief and hell? Why is it even when we ask and seek God's truth we are still no more the wiser? In Jesus' day nobody really knew and 2000 years later it isn't any clearer apart from stronger evidence to the contrary. It all points to one thing-randomness over design Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest afireinside Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 1AA1 I have a word for you. I feel in my spirit that you are crying out for truth. Deep inside, hidden beneath indoctrination you are empty, lost, longing for answers and the questions you ask are a subconscious attempt at sabotaging a faith that you don't actually believe in. Part of you says leave it but another part of you yearns to have hope and a life beyond the mental and psychological constraints of religion. You feel a part of you "quicken" when an opinion is given that rejects belief but you aren't quite ready to lay it all down. We will do our part brother- hang in there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Hey 1AAT1! Here's some more on that initial singularity of yours... (or William Lane Craig's, perhaps?) 1. The singularity is theorized to have been the point of origin of our universe. 2. It is theorized to have caused the space-time continuum we exist in, but cannot be said to exist within space and within time. 3. Therefore, we can never detect or observe it directly. 4. Extrapolating from existing theory (Einsteinian Relativity + Traditional BIg Bang Theory) we infer the existence of the singularity. 5. Therefore, the singularity is a purely hypothetical and theoretical construct, which has never been and will never be directly observed. 6. Therefore, we are obliged to search out indirect lines of evidence to confirm or rule out the existence of the initial singularity. These lines of evidence are not just confined to Einsteinian relativity but now incorporate Quantum theory as well. We must now extrapolate from BOTH of these theories. 7. Here is a fair summary of what we've discovered... http://www.bigbangcentral.com/theory_page.html 8. You'll note that standard Big Bang theory now operates in tandem with Inflationary theory. Inflation is a theory of Quantum physics, not of Einsteinian Relativity.) One cannot be separated from the other. They work together and what that entails MUST be factored into any proper understanding of the initial singularity. To do otherwise is to dishonestly cherry-pick from the data. 9. One of the basic extrapolations of Inflation is that once that process has begun, it NEVER ENDS. 10. So, Inflation expanded our universe from a quantum-sized speck to a volume at least a thousand times larger than the tiny portion we can see today. Then the energy that powered Inflation decayed, filling our universe with heat and radiation. We can detect the remnants of this hot Big Bang radiation today, in the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB). 11. However, since Inflation never ends and also doubles it's rate of expansion every trillion, trillionth of a second, logic tells us that other regions like our universe have been experiencing their own hot Big Bangs for at least 13.82 billion years - which is measured the age of our 'pocket' universe. 12. Therefore, standard Big Bang theory AND Inflationary theory working together tell us that we inhabit a ever-growing ensemble of pocket universes and the Copernican Principle must therefore apply to us and to all of the other universes. http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copernican_principle . . . This is what I was referring to before as the Eternal Multiverse. If the Multiverse is truly eternal (without beginning or end) then there was no initial singularity, as implied by extrapolating only from Einsteinian relativity. When quantum physics is factored in, the existence of that singularity is shown to be debatable - not proven. Since we can never observe it, like the multiverse, it should remain a hypothetical and theoretical construct until indirect lines of evidence decide the issue. If that never happens, then both the singularity and the multiverse will forever remain unsupported extrapolations (speculations) formulated from their parent theories. I hope this clarifies things. Thanks, BAA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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