No Shit Sherlock

[mymistake]

 

 

With such ignorance at his disposal, we are invited to believe that he destroyed the Amalekites based upon their genetic predispositions?

Seems reasonable. God would be into absolutes.

 

You missed the point, End3.  How would god even know they had genetic predispositions when he clearly understands nothing of genetics? 

 

 

 

And while we are at it how could God design genetics when God doesn't understand the first thing about genetics.

 

Kind of like how God designed math but God thinks pi = 3.  Or God designed all the planets but God thinks Earth is flat.  God designed the human nervous system but God thinks seizures are caused by demon possession.  And on and on.

[RipVanWinkle]

All the faith in the world won't help you if it's not true. bill

[TheRedneckProfessor]

All the faith in the world won't help you if it's not true. bill

That's why their faith is "not of this world".  

[midniterider]

 

 

Most civilized countries do not have the death penalty. Not all yet… but soon. We are evolving, shocking, isn't it?  

If life's end is death, then sentencing someone to life in prison is much like hell, you recon. So regardless, death penalty of life in prison is very much like death or hell.

 

 

 

It would be nothing like the mythical hell.  Hell is suppose to last forever.  That would be one person experiencing every jail sentence put together in all of history and then doing it again and again.

 

 

I thought people were supposed to 'burn' in hell, not just sit in a jail cell. There may be a difference there. On the other hand if a life sentence in jail included being forced to watch the 700 Club or Fox News everyday...well...that could be similar to hell. :-)

[midniterider]

 

You don't know why your faith, your relationship with the holy sperm, your jesus, should be taken seriously compared to the other faiths.

 

You don't know why your god does what he does, yet you follow him anyway.  If he appeared to you right now, you said you would do anything he commanded, just like the people in the old testament.

 

Yet you want me to take your discussions about how you think genetic predilections are somehow god's way to give people insight seriously?

Yes, the epigenetics offer agreement, to my understanding, with why God would say kill the entire population. So yes, this is why my faith strengthens in the light of new scientific understanding. You willing to go there or not. Doesn't look as you have the courage.

 

 

Epigenetics shows that some humans have the genetic predispostion to be murderous fucks. We already know from bible stories that bible God is a murderous fuck. This strengthens my faith in God, the murderous fuck. :-) Hallelujah!  lol.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

 

You don't know why your faith, your relationship with the holy sperm, your jesus, should be taken seriously compared to the other faiths.

 

You don't know why your god does what he does, yet you follow him anyway.  If he appeared to you right now, you said you would do anything he commanded, just like the people in the old testament.

 

Yet you want me to take your discussions about how you think genetic predilections are somehow god's way to give people insight seriously?

Yes, the epigenetics offer agreement, to my understanding, with why God would say kill the entire population. So yes, this is why my faith strengthens in the light of new scientific understanding. You willing to go there or not. Doesn't look as you have the courage.

 

 

Epigenetics shows that some humans have the genetic predispostion to be murderous fucks. We already know from bible stories that bible God is a murderous fuck. This strengthens my faith in God, the murderous fuck. :-) Hallelujah!  lol.

 

However, I would like to be clear that genetic predisposition does not equate to genetic predestination.  You have to consider both sides of the nature/nurture equation.  Many people who are genetically predisposed to alcoholism never pick up the first drink due to economic, social, environmental and/or other factors during their upbringings.  

 

To put this into its proper "historical context":  Even if god had understood genetics enough to know that the Amalekites were genetically predisposed to evil (which he didn't), god controlled the environment in which they lived and could have influenced that environment toward bringing out the best in the Amalekites and thus helped them overcome their baser drives.

 

Lastly, the epigenetics argument falls flat when you actually look at the science.  "Good" and "evil" are philosophical terms; they are not scientific.  As such, they are relative, subjective, and can neither be quantified nor qualified.  In Western culture, murdering a girl for having sex outside of marriage would be considered "evil".  In other parts of the world, the same act is considered "good".  While I have read many studies that support the claim that a kitten's eyes will change from blue to green around the eighth week of its life, I have yet to read a study that supports the claim that any random person will become Hitler based on that person's genetic matrix.  Again, the "nurture" side of the equation must be considered.

[thereisnoperfect]

 

 

 

You don't know why your faith, your relationship with the holy sperm, your jesus, should be taken seriously compared to the other faiths.

 

You don't know why your god does what he does, yet you follow him anyway.  If he appeared to you right now, you said you would do anything he commanded, just like the people in the old testament.

 

Yet you want me to take your discussions about how you think genetic predilections are somehow god's way to give people insight seriously?

Yes, the epigenetics offer agreement, to my understanding, with why God would say kill the entire population. So yes, this is why my faith strengthens in the light of new scientific understanding. You willing to go there or not. Doesn't look as you have the courage.

 

 

Epigenetics shows that some humans have the genetic predispostion to be murderous fucks. We already know from bible stories that bible God is a murderous fuck. This strengthens my faith in God, the murderous fuck. :-) Hallelujah!  lol.

 

However, I would like to be clear that genetic predisposition does not equate to genetic predestination.  You have to consider both sides of the nature/nurture equation.  Many people who are genetically predisposed to alcoholism never pick up the first drink due to economic, social, environmental and/or other factors during their upbringings.  

 

To put this into its proper "historical context":  Even if god had understood genetics enough to know that the Amalekites were genetically predisposed to evil (which he didn't), god controlled the environment in which they lived and could have influenced that environment toward bringing out the best in the Amalekites and thus helped them overcome their baser drives.

 

Lastly, the epigenetics argument falls flat when you actually look at the science.  "Good" and "evil" are philosophical terms; they are not scientific.  As such, they are relative, subjective, and can neither be quantified nor qualified.  In Western culture, murdering a girl for having sex outside of marriage would be considered "evil".  In other parts of the world, the same act is considered "good".  While I have read many studies that support the claim that a kitten's eyes will change from blue to green around the eighth week of its life, I have yet to read a study that supports the claim that any random person will become Hitler based on that person's genetic matrix.  Again, the "nurture" side of the equation must be considered.

 

Holy crap--you mean by murdering all the Amelikites god destroyed the people who could have been the best NFL football players of all time??!??!!!  To say nothing of rugby!!?!?!

 

Well that puts a whole new spin on things.

[Guest]

 

Let me ask you this. If you knew a child would grow up to be Hitler, what would you do.

 

Oh my god, E3. Please don't tell me that you actually believe it is - or has ever been - within the realm of possibility for anyone to predict that certain groups of people, based on their genetic make-up are impure or evil and deserve to be wiped out as a sort of preemptive strike in an effort to keep the rest of us protected from such evil and . . . impurity. . .  Wait. . .   Is this a trick question?

[pratt]

Let me ask you this. If you knew a child would grow up to be Hitler, what would you do.

 

are you trying to tell everybody that god does not know hilter gonna grow up n kill millions of his chosen ones?

[bornagainathiest]

I'm still appalled at what I've read in this thread.

.

.

.

If End3 had been living in Germany in the 1930's and 40's I really wonder where his interest in racial purity and his willingness to follow the orders of an absolute authority would have taken him?

[thereisnoperfect]

I'm still appalled at what I've read in this thread.

.

.

.

If End3 had been living in Germany in the 1930's and 40's I really wonder where his interest in racial purity and his willingness to follow the orders of an absolute authority would have taken him?

I don't think you have to wonder. The Jews killed Jesus, after all--obviously they are genetically inferior and must be wiped out.

 

 

 

* Note for the irony-impaired: I don't actually agree with the above statement.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

Why are these xians we meet here so immoral?  I wasn't like that.  I didn't know enough about xianity to think like that.

 

They are so unpleasant to be around.

[Guest end3]

You know folks, it's actually ok to ask these questions in your mind without subscription to belief. Rather taken back myself that some of you are so willing to throw ME under the bus. We understand hypothetical right? We understand "what if"?

 

The point being, the actions or lives of the parents can effect the child for generations....is this correct or not.

 

Of course WE don't know the outcome of any particular child, but God? Would it be beyond everything evil in this world to kill a child. Yes.

 

Just saying it offers an explanation.

 

And the feigned disdain.....please.

[Guest end3]

Why are these xians we meet here so immoral?  I wasn't like that.  I didn't know enough about xianity to think like that.

 

They are so unpleasant to be around.

We're all immoral lady....even you.

[Roz]

You know folks, it's actually ok to ask these questions in your mind without subscription to belief. Rather taken back myself that some of you are so willing to throw ME under the bus. We understand hypothetical right? We understand "what if"?

 

The point being, the actions or lives of the parents can effect the child for generations....is this correct or not.

 

Of course WE don't know the outcome of any particular child, but God? Would it be beyond everything evil in this world to kill a child. Yes.

 

Just saying it offers an explanation.

 

And the feigned disdain.....please.

 

This logic falls flat on its face.

 

Num 31

¹⁵ “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. ¹⁶ “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people.

 

---Pay close attention to what is to be done with the boys and non-virgin women.

¹⁷ Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man,

 

---What about their virgin sisters and daughters?

¹⁸ but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

 

"Of course WE don't know the outcome of any particular child, but God?" 

You're the person who would kill a child because god, your god who knew the future, your god who knew that all those boys without exception will be Hitlers, your god who knew that all those girls without exception will be good people, ordered you to.

[♦ ficino ♦]

And all one could know was that some guy said to kill the boys and non-virgins.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

The point being, the actions or lives of the parents can effect the child for generations....is this correct or not.

 

 This is correct and exactly why the epigenetic argument falls flat.  Nature AND Nurture are both involved in who we become.  Even if god somehow magically knew that the Amalekites were genetically predisposed toward evil, he still had no excuse for committing genocide against them.

[Guest end3]

 

You know folks, it's actually ok to ask these questions in your mind without subscription to belief. Rather taken back myself that some of you are so willing to throw ME under the bus. We understand hypothetical right? We understand "what if"?

 

The point being, the actions or lives of the parents can effect the child for generations....is this correct or not.

 

Of course WE don't know the outcome of any particular child, but God? Would it be beyond everything evil in this world to kill a child. Yes.

 

Just saying it offers an explanation.

 

And the feigned disdain.....please.

 

This logic falls flat on its face.

 

Num 31

¹⁵ “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. ¹⁶ “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people.

 

---Pay close attention to what is to be done with the boys and non-virgin women.

¹⁷ Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man,

 

---What about their virgin sisters and daughters?

¹⁸ but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

 

"Of course WE don't know the outcome of any particular child, but God?" 

You're the person who would kill a child because god, your god who knew the future, your god who knew that all those boys without exception will be Hitlers, your god who knew that all those girls without exception will be good people, ordered you to.

 

Like I said Roz....I'm going to quit discussing with you because your mind doesn't swim in the deep end. Not that mine does, but yours really doesn't. Peace.

[Roz]

Bye rapist and murderer!

[Guest end3]

 

The point being, the actions or lives of the parents can effect the child for generations....is this correct or not.

 This is correct and exactly why the epigenetic argument falls flat.  Nature AND Nurture are both involved in who we become.  Even if god somehow magically knew that the Amalekites were genetically predisposed toward evil, he still had no excuse for committing genocide against them.

 

Not true. Is it not the entire purpose of the exercise to define A from B? If God were present "as it would be in Heaven", then in my mind, some absolute of moral would be in place through only the Grace of God. So if a group were outside that Grace or were defined as "can't get in by the Gatekeeper", then it's a done deal Prof.

[Roz]

Those who are lurking, look at how the christian bends over backwards in trying to explain his views.

 

His god is the one true god for him.  He cannot explain why his god hypothesis is more credible than the god hypothesis of the girl who thanked the same god for killing 15 thousand in Japan.  He cannot explain why his own relationship with the holy spirit is more credible than the writers of his own holy book.  He cannot explain why his holy book is any more credible than the Korans, which prescribe when a man can sexually penetrate girls who haven't yet got through puberty.

 

He's advocating that genetics and upbringing have all somehow condemned boys to death, but their virgin sisters and cousins were 'saved' and had the privilege to become sex slaves of Israelites. 

 

This kind of mental gymnastics... is what inevitably leads to insanity.  Christian lurkers, are you sure that book, that sword of the spirit you found lying in the field, is what you really think it is?

[mymistake]

 

 

You know folks, it's actually ok to ask these questions in your mind without subscription to belief. Rather taken back myself that some of you are so willing to throw ME under the bus. We understand hypothetical right? We understand "what if"?

 

The point being, the actions or lives of the parents can effect the child for generations....is this correct or not.

 

Of course WE don't know the outcome of any particular child, but God? Would it be beyond everything evil in this world to kill a child. Yes.

 

Just saying it offers an explanation.

 

And the feigned disdain.....please.

 

This logic falls flat on its face.

 

Num 31

¹⁵ “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. ¹⁶ “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people.

 

---Pay close attention to what is to be done with the boys and non-virgin women.

¹⁷ Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man,

 

---What about their virgin sisters and daughters?

¹⁸ but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

 

"Of course WE don't know the outcome of any particular child, but God?" 

You're the person who would kill a child because god, your god who knew the future, your god who knew that all those boys without exception will be Hitlers, your god who knew that all those girls without exception will be good people, ordered you to.

 

Like I said Roz....I'm going to quit discussing with you because your mind doesn't swim in the deep end. Not that mine does, but yours really doesn't. Peace.

 

 

Looks like pure projection to me.

 

According to your book of myths God killed plenty of children for arbitrary reasons.  According to world statistics children die today because of arbitrary reasons.  It is a historical fact that God does not kill children to prevent Hitlers, Maos, Stalins and Pol Pots from existing.  So Roz has you painted in a corner.

 

Children starved in Africa while you read this.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

 

The point being, the actions or lives of the parents can effect the child for generations....is this correct or not.

 This is correct and exactly why the epigenetic argument falls flat.  Nature AND Nurture are both involved in who we become.  Even if god somehow magically knew that the Amalekites were genetically predisposed toward evil, he still had no excuse for committing genocide against them.

 

Not true. Is it not the entire purpose of the exercise to define A from B? If God were present "as it would be in Heaven", then in my mind, some absolute of moral would be in place through only the Grace of God. So if a group were outside that Grace or were defined as "can't get in by the Gatekeeper", then it's a done deal Prof.

 

Genocide and Grace are mutually exclusive, not that contradicting himself is completely unheard-of with your god.  Moreover, shouldn't grace be offered?  Point to the verse that demonstrates god's offer of grace to the Amalekites.

[♦ ficino ♦]

 

We're all immoral lady....even you.

 

The "we're all immoral" thing is very bad.  If it's a translation of "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God," then I deny that "immoral" and "sinning" (or the equivalent) have the same meaning.  If there are no theological connotations in what you said, end, then it still makes a huge difference what a person does.  To divide the human race into the set of the "moral" - which you claim is a null set - and the set of the "immoral" is a bifurcation fallacy.  It occludes the huge and completely relevant distinctions among behavior, which are what matters.

[RipVanWinkle]

Misplaced faith lasts a lifetime.

Flawed logic is correctable at anytime. bill