Guest end3 Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Why are these xians we meet here so immoral? I wasn't like that. I didn't know enough about xianity to think like that. They are so unpleasant to be around. We're all immoral lady....even you. Actually almost all humans have an inner moral compass that makes them far more moral than your god. My own morality is not clouded by belief in that god. Unclouded equals what, relative? Perhaps. But neither moral relativism nor objective morality are in god's favor. If morality is relative, then we cannot trust our moral sense to know that god is moral. There is no objective basis to recognize god's goodness. If morality is objective, then god commanded things which are against good morals. Therefore god is not good. Again, you act like you can see the entire picture. It's rather arrogant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 I'm beginning to understand what is meant by the phrase "The End3 justifies the means." See, now that's funny. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted June 5, 2014 Super Moderator Share Posted June 5, 2014 So you think the nursing babies that god commanded be killed actually deserved to die because they were born in a time before Jesus (dispensation of grace)? No, personally I don't, BUT, it appears via science that the "sins" of the fathers can genetically alter the outcome of the child. So ultimately, if one were trying to undo what has been done, I could see wiping out a population....in THEORY. So there are Scriptures that support this science as well as admonitions of Christ saying let me be the judge. But hell, it's all a coincidence. I'm going to need you to show me the peer-reviewed study you are referencing here that suggests that the "sins" of the father can be passed via genetics to the child. Remember, End3, once you get into the biological sciences, you are in my house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 So you think the nursing babies that god commanded be killed actually deserved to die because they were born in a time before Jesus (dispensation of grace)? No, personally I don't, BUT, it appears via science that the "sins" of the fathers can genetically alter the outcome of the child. So ultimately, if one were trying to undo what has been done, I could see wiping out a population....in THEORY. So there are Scriptures that support this science as well as admonitions of Christ saying let me be the judge. But hell, it's all a coincidence. I'm going to need you to show me the peer-reviewed study you are referencing here that suggests that the "sins" of the father can be passed via genetics to the child. Remember, End3, once you get into the biological sciences, you are in my house. Let me see what I can dig up....this was all new stuff just a couple of years ago. Please note I used the word "appears". Thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverlandrut Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Why are these xians we meet here so immoral? I wasn't like that. I didn't know enough about xianity to think like that. They are so unpleasant to be around. We're all immoral lady....even you.Actually almost all humans have an inner moral compass that makes them far more moral than your god. My own morality is not clouded by belief in that god.Unclouded equals what, relative?Perhaps. But neither moral relativism nor objective morality are in god's favor. If morality is relative, then we cannot trust our moral sense to know that god is moral. There is no objective basis to recognize god's goodness. If morality is objective, then god commanded things which are against good morals. Therefore god is not good.Again, you act like you can see the entire picture. It's rather arrogant. The inability to see the entire picture further shows that you can't know god's true nature and intentions. You still have no basis to say god is good/moral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 What (still) puzzles me is why End3 persists with the assumption/assertion that the God of the Bible is good and moral? Why he continues to argue that this God has a higher morality and greater morality than we do? . . . Why can't End simply admit that the order to massacre Amalekite children was an evil and immoral order, given by an evil and immoral God? Not so long ago he admitted that this same God knew evil, caused evil and did evil. I haven't forgotten this admission. Care to retract it, End? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Everybody: What Xtian do you know who is a perfect example of why religion is so dangerous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 What (still) puzzles me is why End3 persists with the assumption/assertion that the God of the Bible is good and moral? Why he continues to argue that this God has a higher morality and greater morality than we do? . . . Why can't End simply admit that the order to massacre Amalekite children was an evil and immoral order, given by an evil and immoral God? Not so long ago he admitted that this same God knew evil, caused evil and did evil. I haven't forgotten this admission. Care to retract it, End? If you were God and you knew baby Adolph was going to turn out the way he did, would it be moral to kill baby Adolph.....again, if you knew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 What (still) puzzles me is why End3 persists with the assumption/assertion that the God of the Bible is good and moral? Why he continues to argue that this God has a higher morality and greater morality than we do? . . . Why can't End simply admit that the order to massacre Amalekite children was an evil and immoral order, given by an evil and immoral God? Not so long ago he admitted that this same God knew evil, caused evil and did evil. I haven't forgotten this admission. Care to retract it, End? If you were God and you knew baby Adolph was going to turn out the way he did, would it be moral to kill baby Adolph.....again, if you knew. If I was god I wouldn't have allowed humans like Adolph to come into existence at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 "If you were God and you knew baby Adolph was going to turn out the way he did, would it be moral to kill baby Adolph.....again, if you knew." End3 If I were god I would never have allowed Hitler to be born in the first place. But the bible god has an amazing record when it comes to stepping in to protect humanity from disaster, doesn't he. Or have you figured out a way to rationalize his failure to protect his creatures, too. Of course you have.If he were real, he would be the top sadist of all time. bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Marty: You beat me to it by 4 minutes. bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 No, answer this question as I have written it. What you both are going into is the free will argument. Don't dodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverlandrut Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Why are these xians we meet here so immoral? I wasn't like that. I didn't know enough about xianity to think like that. They are so unpleasant to be around. We're all immoral lady....even you.Actually almost all humans have an inner moral compass that makes them far more moral than your god. My own morality is not clouded by belief in that god.Unclouded equals what, relative?Perhaps. But neither moral relativism nor objective morality are in god's favor. If morality is relative, then we cannot trust our moral sense to know that god is moral. There is no objective basis to recognize god's goodness. If morality is objective, then god commanded things which are against good morals. Therefore god is not good.Again, you act like you can see the entire picture. It's rather arrogant.You are trying to have your cake and eat it to. You say you don't have the full picture and there are things you don't understand, yet you still insist that god is good without any reliable basis to determine that. True, it is POSSIBLE that everything god did in the bible is somehow morally good. But since there is no evidence this god even exists, and since genocide and infanticide fly in the face of our moral conscience, we simply have no basis on which to say this god is good. A POSSIBILITY does not a truth make. We don't accept things as true simply because they are possible. It's possible that a purple alien lives inside the moon and speaks to me in my dreams. It's POSSIBLE, and you can't prove it wrong. Does that mean it must be true? NO! You cannot plead ignorance of gods nature and ways and then turn right around and claim you have knowledge that god is good. This is a type of argument from ignorance fallacy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted June 5, 2014 Moderator Share Posted June 5, 2014 What (still) puzzles me is why End3 persists with the assumption/assertion that the God of the Bible is good and moral? Why he continues to argue that this God has a higher morality and greater morality than we do? . . . Why can't End simply admit that the order to massacre Amalekite children was an evil and immoral order, given by an evil and immoral God? Not so long ago he admitted that this same God knew evil, caused evil and did evil. I haven't forgotten this admission. Care to retract it, End? If you were God and you knew baby Adolph was going to turn out the way he did, would it be moral to kill baby Adolph.....again, if you knew. Did God know? Was it immoral for God not to kill baby Adolph? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverlandrut Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Why are these xians we meet here so immoral? I wasn't like that. I didn't know enough about xianity to think like that. They are so unpleasant to be around. We're all immoral lady....even you.Actually almost all humans have an inner moral compass that makes them far more moral than your god. My own morality is not clouded by belief in that god.Unclouded equals what, relative?Perhaps. But neither moral relativism nor objective morality are in god's favor. If morality is relative, then we cannot trust our moral sense to know that god is moral. There is no objective basis to recognize god's goodness. If morality is objective, then god commanded things which are against good morals. Therefore god is not good.Again, you act like you can see the entire picture. It's rather arrogant.The inability to see the entire picture further shows that you can't know god's true nature and intentions. The inability to see the whole picture only furthers the fact you have no basis to say god is good/moral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 And thinking about it MM.....not too bright a statement. You are more than willing for science to revise itself, but you won't allow for your own Spiritual revision? I have no idea where you come up with this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 No, answer this question as I have written it. What you both are going into is the free will argument. Don't dodge. No, End. You resolve the outstanding question of God's nature. That unresolved question preceded this entire thread. You said God is knows, causes and is responsible for evil. Don't defend God and argue that He is good if you've already said he's evil! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 If you were God and you knew baby Adolph was going to turn out the way he did, would it be moral to kill baby Adolph.....again, if you knew. If I were God then baby Adolph could not turn out the way he did. Are you kidding me? I have the power to make the whole Earth flood? I have the power to do the booming voice thing? I have millions of angels that can go to Earth and do whatever I tell them to do? I can telepathically communicate with all Christians and they will obey me? There is no fracking way that hatred of the Jews would be the popular political platform for 1930's Germany. I would show up there in person and tell them to knock that the frak off. As God I can use thunder claps to emphasize my point. But the God of the Bible is imaginary so all he could do was stand around and do nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Ha, I knew y'all wouldn't have the fortitude to answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 A all-powerful/good God could: (1) never have Adolph be born (2) change his brain at any point so he wouldn't turn out to be/would stop being a delusional maniac (3) have him slip into a peaceful coma (4) personally come down to earth to discuss why Aryan ideas were bogus. He could prove to Adolph beyond any doubt that his ideas were wrong and do some impressive miracles do cement the deal (5) have him pass out or freeze up every time he tried to hurt a Jew (6) Have him peacefully die and send him to a heaven with a healed brain before he hurt anyone I'm sure we could come up with a bunch more. Adolph Hitler is just what you expect would happen if an omnipotent, omnibenevolent God was NOT running the show... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Ha, I knew y'all wouldn't have the fortitude to answer. It is a dishonest question. It is not moral to create intelligent beings just to kill them. If your God were real he would be immoral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 So yes, I would choose him to die peacefully and go to a heaven with a healed brain before I would allow him to murder and torment millions of people. end3, be absolutely frank. doesn't that sound like a better idea?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Ha, I knew y'all wouldn't have the fortitude to answer. Sez the man who called God evil last month and who calls him good this month. Better to lack fortitude than to be like that, imho, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Ha, I knew y'all wouldn't have the fortitude to answer. Sez the man who called God evil last month and who calls him good this month. Better to lack fortitude than to be like that, imho, But you don't understand the context of those statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Ha, I knew y'all wouldn't have the fortitude to answer. Do hubris and sanctimony emanate from biochemical processes within the brain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts