mymistake Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 WTF? Death isn't something we are worthy of. Death is the natural consequence of life. Nothing lives forever because that is not possible. There was no global flood. The idea is silly. It is impossible. It never happened. The people who invented the Noah story had no idea what the right direction on morality was. They would torture and kill goats to please imaginary beings. There is nothing moral about that. You can't marry these ideas to today's science because it doesn't fit. You can't even marry Bronze Age Jewish paganism to Iron Age Christianity. So when terrible crime are committed, we sentence people to eternal life? Get real MM. Nothing I said came anywhere close to "sentence people to eternal life". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 WTF? Death isn't something we are worthy of. Death is the natural consequence of life. Nothing lives forever because that is not possible. There was no global flood. The idea is silly. It is impossible. It never happened. The people who invented the Noah story had no idea what the right direction on morality was. They would torture and kill goats to please imaginary beings. There is nothing moral about that. You can't marry these ideas to today's science because it doesn't fit. You can't even marry Bronze Age Jewish paganism to Iron Age Christianity. So when terrible crime are committed, we sentence people to eternal life? Get real MM. Nothing I said came anywhere close to "sentence people to eternal life". You said worthy of. So I am asking you to explain that there is no humanity worthy of death. Murderers, rapists, etc.? Yes there is. We put people in boxes for the rest of there natural lives for various degrees of evil and still execute them in the most civilized societies on earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 You said worthy of. So I am asking you to explain that there is no humanity worthy of death. Murderers, rapists, etc.? Yes there is. We put people in boxes for the rest of there natural lives for various degrees of evil and still execute them in the most civilized societies on earth. Your concepts are all messed up. I said death isn't like that. Death isn't something anything is or isn't worthy of. Worthy of doesn't work with the concept of death. Everybody dies because that is the nature of life. There are human justice systems that still have the death penalty. But a baby born yesterday is not a murderer or a rapist. And this is on the justice system rather than some objective worth. You were trying to marry a Jewish story that was plagiarized from the Mesopotamian story Epic of Gilgamesh with modern criminal justice. These things do not fit together and when the concepts fail that is on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 I disagree completely MM. Statistics would lead us to predict murderers to babies born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 I disagree completely MM. Statistics would lead us to predict murderers to babies born. You are mixing battery acid with strawberry ice cream. Don't eat it unless you want a Darwin Award. Don't put it in your battery unless you want to ruin your battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 I disagree completely MM. Statistics would lead us to predict murderers to babies born. You are mixing battery acid with strawberry ice cream. Don't eat it unless you want a Darwin Award. Don't put it in your battery unless you want to ruin your battery. Well, this flies in the face of trying to raise children in a certain environment doesn't it? Why not just rape and plunder and expect morality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 It's simple. God should have removed his curse from humanity so that there was no proclivity to sin. Jesus said it's sinful to curse others and to not follow the golden rule anyway. Plus, who would do bad things if they had both sufficient wisdom and self-control? Think of the benefits for everyone. People would not be genocidal (like God sometimes is), would not kill children by the thousands (as God did/does), would not like to torment and torture people (like God did in the OT and does all the time with billions in hell), would not be dishonest (like God does when he sends deceitful spirits into the mouths of prophets or claims that he "is Love"), and would be more willing to feed people (unlike God when he has sent starvation and famine), less inclined to war (unlike God who has encouraged and commanded war at times), be more willing to help the sick (unlike God who has inflicted people with diseases in Scripture or can cure them anytime), wouldn't do cruel things like stone and burn people (like God commanded in OT), etc. God should follow his own advice. According to traditional Christian theologies, He is all-good and all-powerful. But He clearly has not and does not do all the good he could do-- with no need of risk, chance of harm, or inconvenience to himself. God should follow his own supposed command: "So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin." (Jas 4:17) Cursing everyone and then being pissed that they do the things that You do is both perverse and hypocritical. If murdering, lying, not helping the sick/prisoner/hungry deserves hell, then Christ's sacrifice is worthless for humanity because God needs it for himself. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 "Great Physician, heal thyself" is the phrase that comes to mind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Well, this flies in the face of trying to raise children in a certain environment doesn't it? Why not just rape and plunder and expect morality. I don't see it that way and have no idea what such ramblings have to do with previous ramblings. There is nothing wrong with trying to raise kids in a good environment. I have no desire to rape or plunder. I don't want to live near those who do. Morality can be taught but don't look for it in a book written by Iron Age men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 Who here will physically kill a baby if yaweh/jesus/allah ordered them to? Who will actually do this? We know the christian would, but who among you will? Even if that child has all the genetic predispositions of a serial killer, I will do my best to raise him up in the best environment I can. If he needs mental help, I will go and find mental health treatment for him. When you were still a christian, did you think as End3? Or did you never really think about this? I never did until I first came in contact with the slavery verses in the bible. Then I just read more and more until I came to these verses advocating genocide. Heaven's too high a price tag if I have to sacrifice my sanity and my human decency. I would rather face hell than this. Then I kept on learning about how christianity was put together, and suddenly it all made sense. It makes absolute perfect sense that this religion was something that was thought up in antiquity, where might still equaled right. So I will raise that boy or girl the best I can, instill in them secular morals and reasoning, tell them to question everything about the world that they live in, and test things out. When I die, I'll pass into nothingness, same as before I was born, and I hope that my last thoughts will be of the hope of a better world for the next generation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 we are ALL worthy of death. It's a bit sad to see an adult clinging to such a macabre notion. No wonder there is so much untreated depression amongst xians. What a thoroughly reprehensible thing to indoctrinate people with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thereisnoperfect Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Interesting how End works. Lurkers, take note: When I make a post pointing out how his "yay Amelikite killing!" doesn't fit well with the "love your neighbor" moral code, he ignores that and instead insults my intelligence and ability to understand, also ignoring the "love your neighbor" command. When I point out that this hurt and angered me, he ignores it. This is christian morality in practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 WTF? Death isn't something we are worthy of. Death is the natural consequence of life. Nothing lives forever because that is not possible. There was no global flood. The idea is silly. It is impossible. It never happened. The people who invented the Noah story had no idea what the right direction on morality was. They would torture and kill goats to please imaginary beings. There is nothing moral about that. You can't marry these ideas to today's science because it doesn't fit. You can't even marry Bronze Age Jewish paganism to Iron Age Christianity. So when terrible crime are committed, we sentence people to eternal life? Get real MM. Society waits for a crime to be committed...by a single person....then in the worst cases executes the criminal...usually after multiple court appeals and years on death row. God kills whole races of people including women and babies...for the terrible crime of belonging to a particular race of people. :-) Society only gives the death penalty for homicide. God gives the death penalty for eating fruit from the wrong tree, sassing your mom, wearing polyester or just being the wrong race. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Society only gives the death penalty for homicide. God gives the death penalty for eating fruit from the wrong tree, sassing your mom, wearing polyester or just being the wrong race. Don't forget that God also gives the death penalty for suggesting to his followers that they serve other gods or for picking up sticks on the Sabbath. Also, whatever you do, DON'T TOUCH THE ARK OF THE COVENANT, or else God will REALLY get pissed! Even if it's about to fall to the ground because an oxen stumbled and it could break, just keep your hands off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 Damnit Crazyguy, I need to post up what Ellen White said about Uzzah, the unfortunate bastard who touched the ark. She makes him out to be an absolute criminal, so that god will be excused for killing him. I swear she's like End3 in a dress. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 All this talk of God's righteous killing makes me wanna jump back into the fold. :-) I'd love to spend eternity with this guy. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Interesting how End works. Lurkers, take note: When I make a post pointing out how his "yay Amelikite killing!" doesn't fit well with the "love your neighbor" moral code, he ignores that and instead insults my intelligence and ability to understand, also ignoring the "love your neighbor" command. When I point out that this hurt and angered me, he ignores it. This is christian morality in practice. The reason I responded as I did was your tone. If you would like to talk across rather than disrespectfully, I am capable of that type conversation. Please note exchanges between the Prof. and I as an example. I don't dislike you, I just don't like your disrespect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 WTF? Death isn't something we are worthy of. Death is the natural consequence of life. Nothing lives forever because that is not possible. There was no global flood. The idea is silly. It is impossible. It never happened. The people who invented the Noah story had no idea what the right direction on morality was. They would torture and kill goats to please imaginary beings. There is nothing moral about that. You can't marry these ideas to today's science because it doesn't fit. You can't even marry Bronze Age Jewish paganism to Iron Age Christianity. So when terrible crime are committed, we sentence people to eternal life? Get real MM. Society waits for a crime to be committed...by a single person....then in the worst cases executes the criminal...usually after multiple court appeals and years on death row. God kills whole races of people including women and babies...for the terrible crime of belonging to a particular race of people. :-) Society only gives the death penalty for homicide. God gives the death penalty for eating fruit from the wrong tree, sassing your mom, wearing polyester or just being the wrong race. All this talk of God's righteous killing makes me wanna jump back into the fold. :-) I'd love to spend eternity with this guy. :-) Maybe He could put you in charge of throwing lighting bolts..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 All this talk of God's righteous killing makes me wanna jump back into the fold. :-) I'd love to spend eternity with this guy. :-) If we only gave Moses a modern computer and a sim game like Shogun total war. I'm sure we can repaint it to be Canaan: Total War for him. Then those Canaanites would've never suffered genocide from his tyrannical delusions of grandeur... I mean god's commands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ crazyguy123 ◊ Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Damnit Crazyguy, I need to post up what Ellen White said about Uzzah, the unfortunate bastard who touched the ark. She makes him out to be an absolute criminal, so that god will be excused for killing him. I swear she's like End3 in a dress. The funny thing about apologists labeling those who Yahweh has killed as criminals is that, according to their own dogma, they have a legitimate reason for doing so. The Bible does indeed say that all have sinned and that none of us are capable of doing good on our own. I guess that means all of us are criminals by default and deserve to die in some horrific manner. However, the apologists that do this don't bother to address the reason why we're all sinners, deserving of death. I have tried many times to point out to vocal believers that the only way this can be true is if Yahweh just made up the rules by defining them subjectively and then allowing us to be born with a programming to break those rules. Every time I try to point that out, they just say that I'm wrong and then do nothing to defend their position. Instead, they just reiterate their dogma at me and nothing new happens. I once had an extreme fundamentalist go into a rage and start cussing me out over this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 we are ALL worthy of death. It's a bit sad to see an adult clinging to such a macabre notion. No wonder there is so much untreated depression amongst xians. What a thoroughly reprehensible thing to indoctrinate people with. What are your expectations in a relationship NZ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 End3 advocates killing children if god says so, and we're disrespectful. I just have to laugh. Good job, that SS uniform definitely suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 How is this picture any different from the bible's war criminals? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 However, the apologists that do this don't bother to address the reason why we're all sinners, deserving of death. Here's your chance. What are your expectations within a relationship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Society only gives the death penalty for homicide. God gives the death penalty for eating fruit from the wrong tree, sassing your mom, wearing polyester or just being the wrong race. Don't forget that God also gives the death penalty for suggesting to his followers that they serve other gods or for picking up sticks on the Sabbath. Also, whatever you do, DON'T TOUCH THE ARK OF THE COVENANT, or else God will REALLY get pissed! Even if it's about to fall to the ground because an oxen stumbled and it could break, just keep your hands off. And failure to kiss Jesus' ass results in perma-torture in hell. God, the same psycho yesterday, today and tomorrow! :-) If I really decide I need a heaven concept I'll just go with Summerland. I get to reincarnate that way. No perma-torture for wrong thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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