Roz Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Gus, why do you feel the need to make sense of what is so clearly absurd? To christians in general: why is it so hard to say, "I don't know?" Because they're afraid of the chasm that we step over. They must make some sense of all the absurdities of the bible, or else they kiss their eternal party boat with yeshitwa goodbye. No eternal life, no eternal happiness, no nothing. They cannot understand that the default position is "I don't know." We all don't know if there really are more powerful beings out there, much less if they're interested in our lives. They just know that if they don't kiss hank's ass, then that's it for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Gus, why do you feel the need to make sense of what is so clearly absurd? To christians in general: why is it so hard to say, "I don't know?" The christians on this site always seem to end with, "but I believe," or, "well I think," without ever providing a good reason for their belief. It is obvious. Why not just acknowledge the fact that the bible is often confusing, ancient, and doesn't provide every answer? Even without a loss of belief in "God" it seems that would be a more genuine, honest, and humble response. You may see it as absurd but I do not. I will say 'I don’t know' on some of these topics as nobody can know for sure 100%, we weren’t there at the beginning. Admitting I don’t know on some subject does not lessen to me the truth of the bible and the existence of God, any more than if we know the unverise is real but we don’t really know where it came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Gus, why do you feel the need to make sense of what is so clearly absurd? To christians in general: why is it so hard to say, "I don't know?" Because they're afraid of the chasm that we step over. They must make some sense of all the absurdities of the bible, or else they kiss their eternal party boat with yeshitwa goodbye. No eternal life, no eternal happiness, no nothing. They cannot understand that the default position is "I don't know." We all don't know if there really are more powerful beings out there, much less if they're interested in our lives. They just know that if they don't kiss hank's ass, then that's it for them. Another intelligent and well thought out reply that I guess i have to expect on this forum ho hum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 You may see it as absurd but I do not. I will say 'I don’t know' on some of these topics as nobody can know for sure 100%, we weren’t there at the beginning. Admitting I don’t know on some subject does not lessen to me the truth of the bible and the existence of God, any more than if we know the unverise is real but we don’t really know where it came from. This is why you can never see as Ex-C's see. Because you don't scrutinize your religion like you can scrutinize everything else. You make the leap of faith that we don't. The leap that you accept the bible's true even if you don't understand subject matter X or Y. Fail on top of more fail. Par for the christian course. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 You may see it as absurd but I do not. I will say 'I don’t know' on some of these topics as nobody can know for sure 100%, we weren’t there at the beginning. Admitting I don’t know on some subject does not lessen to me the truth of the bible and the existence of God, any more than if we know the unverise is real but we don’t really know where it came from. This is why you can never see as Ex-C's see. Because you don't scrutinize your religion like you can scrutinize everything else. You make the leap of faith that we don't. The leap that you accept the bible's true even if you don't understand subject matter X or Y. Fail on top of more fail. Par for the christian course. I take it you believe the universe had a start? But you don't know how exactly 100%? Does that lessen the reality for you? I think Roz, me and you are done with conversation on this forum as you can seemingly only end up with sarcasm and derogatory remarks, even making snide remarks on how I bring up my children. I let it go before but I can see you will just continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawn Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Yeah, probably a good idea to just go away. We don't really want any jesus leg-humpers around here anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 You may see it as absurd but I do not. I will say 'I don’t know' on some of these topics as nobody can know for sure 100%, we weren’t there at the beginning. Admitting I don’t know on some subject does not lessen to me the truth of the bible and the existence of God, any more than if we know the unverise is real but we don’t really know where it came from. This is why you can never see as Ex-C's see. Because you don't scrutinize your religion like you can scrutinize everything else. You make the leap of faith that we don't. The leap that you accept the bible's true even if you don't understand subject matter X or Y. Fail on top of more fail. Par for the christian course. I take it you believe the universe had a start? But you don't know how exactly 100%? Does that lessen the reality for you? I think Roz, me and you are done with conversation on this forum as you can seemingly only end up with sarcasm and derogatory remarks, even making snide remarks on how I bring up my children. I let it go before but I can see you will just continue. Another christian who really can't answer and defend his god. I make no claims to how the universe was formed. But you and every other christian here make this leap: You believe in the bible, regardless of any evidence that may come across. You say that I'm derogatory and sarcastic, and yes I am, but you cannot answer what YOU would do in the cases of your god ordering rape, murder, and slavery. Lev. 25 and Num. 31. Read it for yourself. You know that verse you christians love to say "Jesus says he and his dad are one!" Well guess what, Gus. That implicates jesus as being the one who ordered these atrocities. If you are a christian, at the very least you were ignorant of these verses. Otherwise, staying a christian means you made the choice of praising that god who ordered rape/murder/slavery. This is the choice you made. Compound that with the statement you made where you believe in the bible regardless of your knowledge of the subject at hand, and yeah, I see a clear picture of you now. I write this for the lurkers out there. I don't suspect you'll ever see and connect the dots laid out before you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Gus, why do you feel the need to make sense of what is so clearly absurd? To christians in general: why is it so hard to say, "I don't know?" The christians on this site always seem to end with, "but I believe," or, "well I think," without ever providing a good reason for their belief. It is obvious. Why not just acknowledge the fact that the bible is often confusing, ancient, and doesn't provide every answer? Even without a loss of belief in "God" it seems that would be a more genuine, honest, and humble response. Why is it so hard for non-believers to be ok with not knowing? Are you ok with not knowing if I consider the multiverse to be science, End? I've tried asking you about that thread, with no response from you. http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/63204-free-will/page-16#.U8G8nPldVzM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 You may see it as absurd but I do not. I will say 'I don’t know' on some of these topics as nobody can know for sure 100%, we weren’t there at the beginning. Admitting I don’t know on some subject does not lessen to me the truth of the bible and the existence of God, any more than if we know the unverise is real but we don’t really know where it came from. This is why you can never see as Ex-C's see. Because you don't scrutinize your religion like you can scrutinize everything else. You make the leap of faith that we don't. The leap that you accept the bible's true even if you don't understand subject matter X or Y. Fail on top of more fail. Par for the christian course. I take it you believe the universe had a start? But you don't know how exactly 100%? Does that lessen the reality for you? I think Roz, me and you are done with conversation on this forum as you can seemingly only end up with sarcasm and derogatory remarks, even making snide remarks on how I bring up my children. I let it go before but I can see you will just continue. Another christian who really can't answer and defend his god. I make no claims to how the universe was formed. But you and every other christian here make this leap: You believe in the bible, regardless of any evidence that may come across. You say that I'm derogatory and sarcastic, and yes I am, but you cannot answer what YOU would do in the cases of your god ordering rape, murder, and slavery. Lev. 25 and Num. 31. Read it for yourself. You know that verse you christians love to say "Jesus says he and his dad are one!" Well guess what, Gus. That implicates jesus as being the one who ordered these atrocities. If you are a christian, at the very least you were ignorant of these verses. Otherwise, staying a christian means you made the choice of praising that god who ordered rape/murder/slavery. This is the choice you made. Compound that with the statement you made where you believe in the bible regardless of your knowledge of the subject at hand, and yeah, I see a clear picture of you now. I write this for the lurkers out there. I don't suspect you'll ever see and connect the dots laid out before you. Look, if you really want an answer to your question I'll give you one. I know what the bible says thanks. But i'll give one only if you are prepared to drop the attitude. Deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Androo Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Gus, why do you feel the need to make sense of what is so clearly absurd? To christians in general: why is it so hard to say, "I don't know?" The christians on this site always seem to end with, "but I believe," or, "well I think," without ever providing a good reason for their belief. It is obvious. Why not just acknowledge the fact that the bible is often confusing, ancient, and doesn't provide every answer? Even without a loss of belief in "God" it seems that would be a more genuine, honest, and humble response. Why is it so hard for non-believers to be ok with not knowing? For me it was difficult at first because I was raised as a christian. I was told I DID know the answers to all those big and difficult questions. However now I know this is untrue. Nobody has all the answers. I this this is especially hard to come to terms with when leaving a religious faith. I wonder if people who were raised by parents without religious faiths find it easier to accept uncertainty. So to answer your question, I guess I don't know ;-) But I do know that I have found peace in not knowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Look, if you really want an answer to your question I'll give you one. I know what the bible says thanks. But i'll give one only if you are prepared to drop the attitude. Deal? There is another positive claim. You know what the bible says. 1 Sam 15: 15 Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. 2 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’” So you claim that you know of this verse. You still claim that your god is the one true god (being a christian) and you claim that your god is all good. My question is then (as I have said before) WOULD YOU OBEY HIS ORDERS if you lived during that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 When God gave Adam unconditional authority over the earth, He gave him His word (Ps. 89:34). There were no strings attached. He didn’t say, “If you blow it, I’ll take back My power and authority.” No! God had to allow what man allowed. The Lord had given man total control over the earth. It was his to govern as he saw fit. Adam then yielded to Satan the power and authority God intended for man. Gus, If you can provide me with a scripture verse from the Genesis record wherein god explains to Adam that by eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, Adam would yield his authority to satan, and bring Original Sin into the nature of humanity, then I am willing to accept this argument in its entirety. If such a verse cannot be found in the book of Genesis, then this entire line of reasoning can be dismissed as unsupported by the text. Take note, Gus; I do not care if some new testament writer explained it all 4,000 years after the fact. I need to see god explaining it to Adam. If god did not explain it to Adam personally, then my point that god planned the fall as a set-up from the beginning not only still stands, but is further supported by yet another vital piece of information that god witheld in order to ensure that Adam and Eve took the fall. Again, Gus, we cannot simply read into the scripture what we think it should say. I look forward to your response. Cheers, TheRedneckProfessor … I cannot provide you with a specific scripture from Genesis that says what you want it to, so if that is what you are looking for, sorry I cannot help and you are free to dismiss my theory. … Translation: I have no supporting scriptures for my earlier interpretation of the Bible. … However, I don’t think you need to have one as there is evidence through the bible that this is the case. … Translation: Nevertheless, let me give you more of my personal interpretation of the Bible. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 …I know what the bible says thanks. … Like I said before, "A gnostic theist. How quaint". Nothing but mere assertions and unsupported claims. As expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Gus, why do you feel the need to make sense of what is so clearly absurd? To christians in general: why is it so hard to say, "I don't know?" The christians on this site always seem to end with, "but I believe," or, "well I think," without ever providing a good reason for their belief. It is obvious. Why not just acknowledge the fact that the bible is often confusing, ancient, and doesn't provide every answer? Even without a loss of belief in "God" it seems that would be a more genuine, honest, and humble response. Why is it so hard for non-believers to be ok with not knowing? Are you ok with not knowing if I consider the multiverse to be science, End? I've tried asking you about that thread, with no response from you. http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/63204-free-will/page-16#.U8G8nPldVzM You ever consider the multiverse being levels of Heaven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Gus, why do you feel the need to make sense of what is so clearly absurd? To christians in general: why is it so hard to say, "I don't know?" The christians on this site always seem to end with, "but I believe," or, "well I think," without ever providing a good reason for their belief. It is obvious. Why not just acknowledge the fact that the bible is often confusing, ancient, and doesn't provide every answer? Even without a loss of belief in "God" it seems that would be a more genuine, honest, and humble response. Why is it so hard for non-believers to be ok with not knowing? Are you ok with not knowing if I consider the multiverse to be science, End? I've tried asking you about that thread, with no response from you. http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/63204-free-will/page-16#.U8G8nPldVzM You ever consider the multiverse being levels of Heaven? Is that a Mormon idea? Levels of heaven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 This is so simple. I created the multiverse last Tuesday. Everything you remember from prior to that is a memory I created for you after the fact. Now all you good people feel free to drop to your knees and worship me as your creator. After all you can't prove it isn't true. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceWrangler Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 I am surprised not one tittle or iota in a response to my post about satan/lucifer. I would suggest Gus and other believers to really research where his myth came from. Lucifer is plainly a star. It was misinterpreted by Marcion, I believe, in his Latin "bible". Also, I read the text as god informing the accuser about job, not as if he had already accused job. Funny, they make a wager but I thought gambling was a sin? In response to you sd... Thanks for the welcome. I've been reading around the site for about 2 months I guess. Mostly what I've been seeing is apologists answering questions with questions. And never really an honest "I don't know". I also notice a lot of theological "gaps" explained with words and ideas added to texts. But they roast secularism gaps. I guess in 2014 science should have everything figured out? I would like to add that I am still terrified of El, Elohim, ywvh, Jehovah at this moment for writing this lol. Should one live in fear if his loving god? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceWrangler Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 I would also like to ask If you read genesis, without being told it was the true word of god, what would you think about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 I would also like to ask If you read genesis, without being told it was the true word of god, what would you think about it? Comparing it to other religions, I would still be drawn to the Biblical story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 You ever consider the multiverse being levels of Heaven? Without evidence such considerations are unfounded. Sure, you can toy with them. But if you want other people to take the idea seriously then the burden is on you to demonstrate you have a good reason. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 I would also like to ask If you read genesis, without being told it was the true word of god, what would you think about it? Comparing it to other religions, I would still be drawn to the Biblical story. Because you were born into a culture that raised you Christian. If you had been born in a different part of the world or a different time then that same pull would draw you to the popular religion in that time and place. You are a Christian because of geography. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceWrangler Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 I would also like to ask If you read genesis, without being told it was the true word of god, what would you think about it? Comparing it to other religions, I would still be drawn to the Biblical story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceWrangler Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 But would you take it literally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 But would you take it literally? Some I do and some I take as figurative language. For example, I hold to the Old Earth Creation view that the six days of creation were not literal 24 hour days. I have friends who hold to the Young Earth Creation view that they were indeed six 24 hour days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceWrangler Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 But would you take it literally? Some I do and some I take as figurative language. For example, I hold to the Old Earth Creation view that the six days of creation were not literal 24 hour days. I have friends who hold to the Young Earth Creation view that they were indeed six 24 hour days. Problem with your view tho is it says there was morning and night, the first day, second, ect. Also without sun and moon :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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