sdelsolray Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 This is probably why the fear and dread of man fell upon animals, as they were not being eaten prior to Noah. So, Abel and others just sacrificed animals because God liked them to, and not because people ate them? That's an odd position to take. And don't forget that God himself made clothes for Adam and Eve out of animal skins? You don't think that Adam's descendents continued making clothes out of animal skins? Boy, the lame excuses that Christians will come up with to justify random pieces of ancient mythological text... Don't forget that Noah himself was commanded by god to take seven of each of the "clean" animals. How would Noah have known which ones were "clean" if they didn't eat meat? Also, IIRC, the distinction between clean and unclean animals did not develop until after the Flood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted July 13, 2014 Author Super Moderator Share Posted July 13, 2014 According to Genesis 7: And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation. 2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. 3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth. 4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth. 5 And Noah did according unto all that the Lord commanded him. 6 And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth. 7 And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood. 8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, Therefore it would appear that the concept of "clean" and "unclean" had already been established before the flood. *Text pulled from https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%207&version=KJV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Blasting off in my rocket ship day after tomorrow headed for the edge of the universe. My intent is to see the second heaven. Will send wave communication back on occasion. First think I have to accomplish is slingshot around Uranus.... Love to all, End3 I hope you'll stick with me on this, so that we can resolve the issue of subjectivity vs. objectivity, End. Let's not re-visit this, six months (or whenever) down the road, in another thread. Let's deal with this asap, here in this thread. Thanks, BAA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 According to Genesis 7: And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation. 2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. 3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth. 4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth. 5 And Noah did according unto all that the Lord commanded him. 6 And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth. 7 And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood. 8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, Therefore it would appear that the concept of "clean" and "unclean" had already been established before the flood. *Text pulled from https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%207&version=KJV Yes, the concept was there right before the Flood, but the dietary distinctions were later. So, as you queried, how would Noah know which was which? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 I think the distinctions were not dietary, but about animals to be used for sacrifice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted July 13, 2014 Author Super Moderator Share Posted July 13, 2014 According to Genesis 7: And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation. 2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. 3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth. 4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth. 5 And Noah did according unto all that the Lord commanded him. 6 And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth. 7 And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood. 8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, Therefore it would appear that the concept of "clean" and "unclean" had already been established before the flood. *Text pulled from https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%207&version=KJV Yes, the concept was there right before the Flood, but the dietary distinctions were later. So, as you queried, how would Noah know which was which? Oh, okay, I see where you were headed now. Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted July 13, 2014 Author Super Moderator Share Posted July 13, 2014 I think the distinctions were not dietary, but about animals to be used for sacrifice. Either way, why would animals not be afraid of the humans who were killing them, either for their own or their gods' consumption, until after the flood? Not that I expect an answer from you, TinPony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Blasting off in my rocket ship day after tomorrow headed for the edge of the universe. My intent is to see the second heaven. Will send wave communication back on occasion. First think I have to accomplish is slingshot around Uranus.... Love to all, End3 I hope you'll stick with me on this, so that we can resolve the issue of subjectivity vs. objectivity, End. Let's not re-visit this, six months (or whenever) down the road, in another thread. Let's deal with this asap, here in this thread. Thanks, BAA Sure, if I head off in my spaceship it becomes objective science... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted July 13, 2014 Author Super Moderator Share Posted July 13, 2014 Blasting off in my rocket ship day after tomorrow headed for the edge of the universe. My intent is to see the second heaven. Will send wave communication back on occasion. First think I have to accomplish is slingshot around Uranus.... Love to all, End3 I hope you'll stick with me on this, so that we can resolve the issue of subjectivity vs. objectivity, End. Let's not re-visit this, six months (or whenever) down the road, in another thread. Let's deal with this asap, here in this thread. Thanks, BAA Sure, if I head off in my spaceship it becomes objective science... Go home, End3; you're drunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Blasting off in my rocket ship day after tomorrow headed for the edge of the universe. My intent is to see the second heaven. Will send wave communication back on occasion. First think I have to accomplish is slingshot around Uranus.... Love to all, End3 I hope you'll stick with me on this, so that we can resolve the issue of subjectivity vs. objectivity, End. Let's not re-visit this, six months (or whenever) down the road, in another thread. Let's deal with this asap, here in this thread. Thanks, BAA Sure, if I head off in my spaceship it becomes objective science... Go home, End3; you're drunk. No, just pointing out how asinine these conversations are with BAA and his need to control the discussion. He needs therapy worse than me. Feel free to throw something out there relevant.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 It winds up in the same spot where every other "discussion" with christians wind up in. "I don't know, but I still believe in jesus." Par for the course. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 It winds up in the same spot where every other "discussion" with christians wind up in. "I don't know, but I still believe in jesus." Par for the course. That is what faith is. It is the fundamental difference between a believer and a non-believer; also between a scam victim and somebody who walks away unscathed. Faith is accepting an idea without questioning it, even if it doesn't make sense and you have good reason or strong evidence that it is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 It winds up in the same spot where every other "discussion" with christians wind up in. "I don't know, but I still believe in jesus." Par for the course. That is what faith is. It is the fundamental difference between a believer and a non-believer; also between a scam victim and somebody who walks away unscathed. Faith is accepting an idea without questioning it, even if it doesn't make sense and you have good reason or strong evidence that it is wrong. I disagree that faith is accepting an idea with out questioning it. I posted months ago about how I questioned the Christian faith in my 20s and read every book on other religions and books by atheists I could find. I also posted when I first came to this forum how I was encouraged by my parents to question everything...including my Christian faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marty Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 It winds up in the same spot where every other "discussion" with christians wind up in. "I don't know, but I still believe in jesus." Par for the course. That is what faith is. It is the fundamental difference between a believer and a non-believer; also between a scam victim and somebody who walks away unscathed. Faith is accepting an idea without questioning it, even if it doesn't make sense and you have good reason or strong evidence that it is wrong. I disagree that faith is accepting an idea with out questioning it. I posted months ago about how I questioned the Christian faith in my 20s and read every book on other religions and books by atheists I could find. I also posted when I first came to this forum how I was encouraged by my parents to question everything...including my Christian faith. Shut up and go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted July 14, 2014 Author Super Moderator Share Posted July 14, 2014 I think the distinctions were not dietary, but about animals to be used for sacrifice. Either way, why would animals not be afraid of the humans who were killing them, either for their own or their gods' consumption, until after the flood? Not that I expect an answer from you, TinPony. Since you're here, TinPony, please address this question. I only asked one because I know that you have difficulty answering more than one at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I think the distinctions were not dietary, but about animals to be used for sacrifice. Either way, why would animals not be afraid of the humans who were killing them, either for their own or their gods' consumption, until after the flood? Not that I expect an answer from you, TinPony. Since you're here, TinPony, please address this question. I only asked one because I know that you have difficulty answering more than one at a time. I'm here TheRedneckProfessor. What is the question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted July 14, 2014 Author Super Moderator Share Posted July 14, 2014 I think the distinctions were not dietary, but about animals to be used for sacrifice. Either way, why would animals not be afraid of the humans who were killing them, either for their own or their gods' consumption, until after the flood? Not that I expect an answer from you, TinPony. Since you're here, TinPony, please address this question. I only asked one because I know that you have difficulty answering more than one at a time. I'm here TheRedneckProfessor. What is the question? Since you were not paying attention, I have been cordial enough to highlight the question in blue. As I have shown you my cordiality, will you now be ever so kind and answer it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 "Either way, why would animals not be afraid of the humans who were killing them, either for their own or their gods' consumption, until after the flood?" If you mean why did the animals willingly enter the ark, here's my answer. I live in a rural area in the South. There is no way I could go out and round up two of a kind of all the critters that live in the woods. I believe God instructed the animals to enter the ark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Marty Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 "Either way, why would animals not be afraid of the humans who were killing them, either for their own or their gods' consumption, until after the flood?" If you mean why did the animals willingly enter the ark, here's my answer. I live in a rural area in the South. There is no way I could go out and round up two of a kind of all the critters that live in the woods. I believe God instructed the animals to enter the ark. Shut the fuck up and go away christ bot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted July 14, 2014 Author Super Moderator Share Posted July 14, 2014 "Either way, why would animals not be afraid of the humans who were killing them, either for their own or their gods' consumption, until after the flood?" If you mean why did the animals willingly enter the ark, here's my answer. I live in a rural area in the South. There is no way I could go out and round up two of a kind of all the critters that live in the woods. I believe God instructed the animals to enter the ark. I did not mean, "Why did the animals willingly enter the ark?" and you know perfectly well that is not what I meant. I meant, "Why were the animals not already afraid of the humans who were killing them." You are being supremely disingenuous, TinPony; and I am nearing the end of my patience with you. Stop playing games and answer the fucking question or you and I are done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I disagree that faith is accepting an idea with out questioning it. I posted months ago about how I questioned the Christian faith in my 20s and read every book on other religions and books by atheists I could find. I also posted when I first came to this forum how I was encouraged by my parents to question everything...including my Christian faith. And yet here you sit believing something that makes ridiculous claims without a shred of objective evidence supporting it. How can you believe it if you question it? What you had in your 20's was a lapse in faith. You questioned it but then your faith came back so now you accept your religion without questioning it. Christianity fails at every point but you love it anyway. Why do you follow a world view that is so full of crap? You disagree because your faith interferes with your judgement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I believe God instructed the animals to enter the ark. The entire Noah's Ark story would be a miracle at every step of the way. God would have to use miracle power to keep Noah alive past 40 years. And here is this 500 year old man building a wooden boat that is better than ships build during the Age of Sail. Even today we could not build a wooden boat that big. And there is no way it could be stocked with enough food to keep a million animals fed for a year. Miracle after miracle after miracle after miracle after miracle; God must have had an active hand in the whole thing at every step of the way. But then why didn't God skip all of that and kill the offenders directly? Why did God have to come up with a convoluted plan that would kill millions of cute kittens and millions of innocent puppies? Why did God have to come up with a plan that would have Noah get drunk, lay around nekid and get butt-raped by his grandson Canaan? God works in mysterious ways "Stupid is as stupid does." - Forest Gump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceWrangler Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Clean and unclean What we see is more likely at least 2 stories interwoven. The first was likely stolen from the epic of Gilgamesh and was written as 2x2. The second was written later by priests and included the 7 clean. No where before was there any clean or unclean. It is not even revealed why Cain and able sacrificed. Cain gave him fruits of the ground. Did this make god angry? He never says why, just that he doesn't like cains. But Abel gives the first of his flock and the fat. Fat tastes good! So god (priests) liked his. It would appear that god only wants meat or that Cain did not bring his best fruits. Strangely it never says why. So clean and unclean probably came about in around 500bce when Ezra, Josiah et al "found" the first 5 books then proceeded to write the priestly rules to back up their wants and needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 Clean and unclean What we see is more likely at least 2 stories interwoven. The first was likely stolen from the epic of Gilgamesh and was written as 2x2. The second was written later by priests and included the 7 clean. No where before was there any clean or unclean. It is not even revealed why Cain and able sacrificed. Cain gave him fruits of the ground. Did this make god angry? He never says why, just that he doesn't like cains. But Abel gives the first of his flock and the fat. Fat tastes good! So god (priests) liked his. It would appear that god only wants meat or that Cain did not bring his best fruits. Strangely it never says why. So clean and unclean probably came about in around 500bce when Ezra, Josiah et al "found" the first 5 books then proceeded to write the priestly rules to back up their wants and needs. Cain offered his sacrifice without faith. Abel offered his in faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 But how much faith did the Tooth Fairy have? How much faith did Harry Potter have? Did Obiwan Kenobi make his sacrifice with faith or without? When Optimums Prime laid down his life was that in faith? Silly Christians. "Well the guy who never existed did an amazing job!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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