Christianity And Personal Responsibility

[Fweethawt]

 

There are things we can see the impact right away and there are things we have to wait for years to see the impact. Then there are things that don't make an impact in any ways. We cannot jump into conclusion, of it is because of god. The end. That is a lazy way of living.

No, it's not lazy, it's a rational way to believe. It's realistic to believe what you have just stated. God basically says "you humans don't know". And you have just agreed that we don't know, so how is God's statement untrue.

Where does god say we don't know?

 

From what I recall, god cursed humanity because A&E ate from the tree of knowledge. If anything, god shit his pants when he realized that A&E, " became as one of us KNOWING good and evil"?

 

I could be wrong but, do we have yet another christian here that doesn't know their own bible?

 

Oh, say it ain't so!

[mymistake]

 

There are things we can see the impact right away and there are things we have to wait for years to see the impact. Then there are things that don't make an impact in any ways. We cannot jump into conclusion, of it is because of god. The end. That is a lazy way of living.

No, it's not lazy, it's a rational way to believe. It's realistic to believe what you have just stated. God basically says "you humans don't know". And you have just agreed that we don't know, so how is God's statement untrue.

 

 

 

That is not what rational means.

 

This is definitely irrational.

[mymistake]

 

 

Ok, leaving the Bible alone for a minute, how do you absolutely know that your actions either hurt someone or they don't.

 

Brain. Compassion. Introspection.

 

I disagree. We may assume those but really have no way of absolutely knowing. As a parent, we assume we are making the best decisions for our children to not harm them in any way and deliver as much "life" to them as possible. But reality suggests that we will harm in some way...probably many ways, because there is no way to absolutely know what they need as individuals or even that we absolutely understand their perspectives.

 

 

 

This is the type of crap that Christianity messes up your mind with.

 

You look at something that is as plain as day.  It is right in front of you.  You see it but you know it means that God is imaginary so you tell yourself that you are confused.  It can't be that God is imaginary.  Rather you don't understand. 

[nukedkitty]

 

End3, you're avoiding answering my questions.

 

 

1. You are told you sin because it is in your nature, and even after attaining salvation, you will sin. Why are you expected to take responsibility for something you cannot control?

 

2. Mercy and grace are provided in the event of sin, so where is your responsibility to avoid sin?

 

3. If you rely on God for everything, where is your sense that you control yourself? Is it not true that most Christians will pray "Lord, help me out here" instead of "Lord, I got myself into this mess, so I'll get myself out?"

 

4. Why is it Christians will repent often only after their sin is exposed? How can such repentance be legitimate? A child who is caught with his hand in the cookie jar will say "sorry" because that is what he is taught to do, not what he actually feels.

 

 

And TheRedneckProfessor's question:

 

5.  When you do wrong to another individual, jesus offers you immediate forgiveness.  This provides you with a clear conscience without being compelled to go back to the person wronged and seek to make amends.  How does this lack of accountability square with the greatest commandment, to love your neighbor as yourself and even love your own enemies?

 

And bornagainatheist's questions:

 

Perhaps End would like to tell us the about the origin of sin, keeping in mind Hebrews 11 : 1 - 3...?

 

Since that passage tells him to accept by faith that the Fall happened as described in Genesis, why does he then consider this event to be an indisputable historical fact... ?

***

 

As a Christian, End3, you're well aware of what sin is. Quit stalling and answer the questions.

I did answer. I am taking personal responsibility for my "sins" by practicing Christianity. Obviously you disagree with that approach.

 

And sin is somewhat relative because, as I said, we are not finished works nor omniscient. All we have is faith that we are acting to some absolute morality.

 

I understand that there are people that are less responsible with the title as Christian. I get that. With that said, let's examine your standard.

 

Hello end3, do you think that without christianity you could'nt be responsible for "your sins"

[bornagainathiest]

Can someone else (End's got me on permanent 'ignore') please ask End3 who he's responsible to for his sins?

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A.  Jesus.    

End is responsible ONLY to Jesus for his sins against others.  But if he repents, Jesus will forgive his sins.

 

 

B.  Those he's sinned against.  

End will repent and have faith that Christ will deliver him from all of his shortcomings. (see post # 94)

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And those people End has wronged and sinned against?    

 

Where do they enter into this equation?

 

End reaches out to them in a spirit of reconciliation... when?

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Luke 19 : 1 - 10.

19 Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through. 

2 A man was there by the name of Zacchaeus; he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy. 

3 He wanted to see who Jesus was, but because he was short he could not see over the crowd. 

4 So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see him, since Jesus was coming that way.

5 When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, “Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today.” 

6 So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly.

7 All the people saw this and began to mutter, “He has gone to be the guest of a sinner.”

8 But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.”

9 Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 

10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest end3]

Hello end3, do you think that without christianity you could'nt be responsible for "your sins"

When I practice Christianity, that is attend more, read more, listen more, then I am more aware of "my sins". So yes, I can be responsible, but Christianity helps me be more responsible based on my practice. Thanks NK.

[nukedkitty]

 

Hello end3, do you think that without christianity you could'nt be responsible for "your sins"

When I practice Christianity, that is attend more, read more, listen more, then I am more aware of "my sins". So yes, I can be responsible, but Christianity helps me be more responsible based on my practice. Thanks NK.

End3, do you need Christianity to be aware of your sins?

[Guest end3]

 

 

Hello end3, do you think that without christianity you could'nt be responsible for "your sins"

When I practice Christianity, that is attend more, read more, listen more, then I am more aware of "my sins". So yes, I can be responsible, but Christianity helps me be more responsible based on my practice. Thanks NK.

 

End3, do you need Christianity to be aware of your sins?

 

No, not all, but Christianity taught me the concept of grace. I really did not know that before.

[nukedkitty]

 

 

 

Hello end3, do you think that without christianity you could'nt be responsible for "your sins"

When I practice Christianity, that is attend more, read more, listen more, then I am more aware of "my sins". So yes, I can be responsible, but Christianity helps me be more responsible based on my practice. Thanks NK.

End3, do you need Christianity to be aware of your sins?

No, not all, but Christianity taught me the concept of grace. I really did not know that before.

So it basically comes down to forgiveness?

[Guest end3]

 

 

 

 

Hello end3, do you think that without christianity you could'nt be responsible for "your sins"

When I practice Christianity, that is attend more, read more, listen more, then I am more aware of "my sins". So yes, I can be responsible, but Christianity helps me be more responsible based on my practice. Thanks NK.

 

End3, do you need Christianity to be aware of your sins?

 

No, not all, but Christianity taught me the concept of grace. I really did not know that before.

 

So it basically comes down to forgiveness?

 

I think so, everybody trying to do what they can. Based on recent science, I'm not even sure the physical is not stacked against us all....just a thought.

[nukedkitty]

 

 

 

 

 

Hello end3, do you think that without christianity you could'nt be responsible for "your sins"

When I practice Christianity, that is attend more, read more, listen more, then I am more aware of "my sins". So yes, I can be responsible, but Christianity helps me be more responsible based on my practice. Thanks NK.

End3, do you need Christianity to be aware of your sins?

No, not all, but Christianity taught me the concept of grace. I really did not know that before.

So it basically comes down to forgiveness?

I think so, everybody trying to do what they can. Based on recent science, I'm not even sure the physical is not stacked against us all....just a thought.

End3, can you explain your thinking here I couldn't grasp your answer to my question.

[Guest end3]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hello end3, do you think that without christianity you could'nt be responsible for "your sins"

When I practice Christianity, that is attend more, read more, listen more, then I am more aware of "my sins". So yes, I can be responsible, but Christianity helps me be more responsible based on my practice. Thanks NK.

 

End3, do you need Christianity to be aware of your sins?

 

No, not all, but Christianity taught me the concept of grace. I really did not know that before.

 

So it basically comes down to forgiveness?

 

I think so, everybody trying to do what they can. Based on recent science, I'm not even sure the physical is not stacked against us all....just a thought.

 

End3, can you explain your thinking here I couldn't grasp your answer to my question.

 

Thinking most folks NK wish to live a life of non-harm, fairness, etc. Regardless of our methods for becoming better people, I don't know of any that ultimately overcome our ability to harm.....hence we are all doing what we can. The science reference was to the field of epigenetics.....what little I know about it, it appears nature and nurture may temporarily alter us genetically. Whether that dictates further behavior, I am not aware.

[nukedkitty]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hello end3, do you think that without christianity you could'nt be responsible for "your sins"

When I practice Christianity, that is attend more, read more, listen more, then I am more aware of "my sins". So yes, I can be responsible, but Christianity helps me be more responsible based on my practice. Thanks NK.

End3, do you need Christianity to be aware of your sins?

No, not all, but Christianity taught me the concept of grace. I really did not know that before.

So it basically comes down to forgiveness?

I think so, everybody trying to do what they can. Based on recent science, I'm not even sure the physical is not stacked against us all....just a thought.

End3, can you explain your thinking here I couldn't grasp your answer to my question.

Thinking most folks NK wish to live a life of non-harm, fairness, etc. Regardless of our methods for becoming better people, I don't know of any that ultimately overcome our ability to harm.....hence we are all doing what we can. The science reference was to the field of epigenetics.....what little I know about it, it appears nature and nurture may temporarily alter us genetically. Whether that dictates further behavior, I am not aware.

End3, are you trying to explain to me something regarding forgiveness, and God's grace for sin.

[Guest end3]

End3, are you trying to explain to me something regarding forgiveness, and God's grace for sin.

Yes, sorry I am not making myself clear. Will be back later NK. Thx.

[nukedkitty]

 

End3, are you trying to explain to me something regarding forgiveness, and God's grace for sin.

Yes, sorry I am not making myself clear. Will be back later NK. Thx.

I might stay up untill you return.

[bornagainathiest]

A  TIMELINE  OF  END3'S  APOLOGY  TO  AND  RECONCILIATION  WITH  FTNZ  FOR THE  SIN  OF  INSULTING  HER

 

 

Many times in over the years End has told us that he believes God is seen thru human relationships.

He also believes that we should act with grace towards one another.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

On Dec 26 2015, in post # 82, End insults FTNZ by calling her an, 'antagonistic bitch.'

  

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/66161-keeping-end3-honest/page-5#.VOyV_XysX7E

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

On Feb 20 End responds to FTNZ's post ( # 50 ) with the words...'feminist drivel.'

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/66846-christianity-and-personal-responsibility/page-3#.VOyatnysX7E

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

On Feb 21, in post # 61 of this thread End rebuffs StillLooking's request and refuses to look again at FTNZ's 'feminist drivel' post.

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/66846-christianity-and-personal-responsibility/page-3#.VOyatnysX7E

 

--------------------------------------------------------------

 

In the same post End3 announces that he has FTNZ on 'ignore'.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------

 

On Feb 21, in post # 64 of this thread End refuses Duderonomy's request to respond to questions raised by FTNZ.

The reasons End gives for his refusal is that she is not interested in "open" and that her pendulum is stuck to one side, destroying the balance he seems to think she ought to have.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------

 

On Feb 22, in post # 71 End responds to MyMistake's challenge ( post # 66) about putting people on ignore.

 

No, that's not right. You are not on ignore. SL is not. She and I were having a polite conversation. Those that are on ignore are rude and really don't want to have a civil discussion. BAA's tedium stifles any forward movement. NZ's uses her feminism as a mandate for abuse.
What brings me back after a small reprieve is OPs like Penguin's here......Christianity leaves no room for self-responsibility......wonderfully short of insight.
I probably will leave again given the lack of forward movement. 

 

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.

So End refuses point blank to apologize to FTNZ for insulting her.

 

Instead of reaching out and wanting to be reconciled with her, he puts her on 'ignore'. 

 

According to him, she abused and abuses him.  (And calling her an antagonistic bitch isn't abusing her?)

 

According to him, she was rude to him. (And calling her an antagonistic bitch isn't rude?)

 

According to him, she's not interested in having a civil discussion.

.

.

.

And here's End's idea of Christian responsibility for sinful behavior.

 

Posted yesterday...

 

Christians are no different. We know that we don't know yet have faith that we are acting in someone's best interest. Very often we fail, as I do, but repent and have faith that Christ delivers us all from these shortcomings. 

 

Yes, End can repent and Christ can deliver him for all his shortcomings.

And as for FTNZ, the injured party in this situation...?  The person End sinned against and wronged?  The one person he should reach out to in grace?

 

Well, as far as End's concerned, so long as he's right with God about his sins - she can go **** herself!

[nukedkitty]

I'm going to make coffee after coffee untill end3 comes back, or pass out from sleep deprivation.

[nukedkitty]

 

A  TIMELINE  OF  END3'S  APOLOGY  TO  AND  RECONCILIATION  WITH  FTNZ  FOR THE  SIN  INSULTING  HER

 

 

Many times in over the years End has told us that he believes God is seen thru human relationships.

He also believes that we should act with grace towards one another.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

On Dec 26 2015, in post # 82, End insults FTNZ by calling her an, 'antagonistic bitch.'

  

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/66161-keeping-end3-honest/page-5#.VOyV_XysX7E

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

On Feb 20 End responds to FTNZ's post ( # 50 ) with the words...'feminist drivel.'

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/66846-christianity-and-personal-responsibility/page-3#.VOyatnysX7E

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

 

On Feb 21, in post # 61 of this thread End rebuffs StillLooking's request and refuses to look again at FTNZ's 'feminist drivel' post.

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/66846-christianity-and-personal-responsibility/page-3#.VOyatnysX7E

 

--------------------------------------------------------------

 

In the same post End3 announces that he has FTNZ on 'ignore'.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------

 

On Feb 21, in post # 64 of this thread End refuses Duderonomy's request to respond to questions raised by FTNZ.

The reasons End gives for his refusal is that she is not interested in "open" and that her pendulum is stuck to one side, destroying the balance he seems to think she ought to have.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------

 

On Feb 22, in post # 71 End responds to MyMistake's challenge ( post # 66) about putting people on ignore.

 

No, that's not right. You are not on ignore. SL is not. She and I were having a polite conversation. Those that are on ignore are rude and really don't want to have a civil discussion. BAA's tedium stifles any forward movement. NZ's uses her feminism as a mandate for abuse.What brings me back after a small reprieve is OPs like Penguin's here......Christianity leaves no room for self-responsibility......wonderfully short of insight.I probably will leave again given the lack of forward movement. 

 

---------------------------------------------------------------

.

.

.

So End refuses point blank to apologize to FTNZ for insulting her.

 

Instead of reaching out and wanting to be reconciled with her, he puts her on 'ignore'. 

 

According to him, she abused and abuses him.  (And calling her an antagonistic bitch isn't abusing her?)

 

According to him, she was rude to him. (And calling her an antagonistic bitch isn't rude?)

 

According to him, she's not interested in having a civil discussion.

.

.

.

And here's End's idea of Christian responsibility for sinful behavior.

 

Posted yesterday...

 

Christians are no different. We know that we don't know yet have faith that we are acting in someone's best interest. Very often we fail, as I do, but repent and have faith that Christ delivers us all from these shortcomings. 

 

Yes, End can repent and Christ can deliver him for all his shortcomings.

And as for FTNZ, the injured party in this situation...?  The person End sinned against and wronged?  The one person he should reach out to in grace?

 

Well, as far as End's concerned, so long as he's right with God about his sins - she can go **** herself!

BornAgainAtheist, I like your star trek avatar. Have you seen those trekback parodies.

[Fweethawt]

I'm going to make coffee after coffee untill end3 comes back, or pass out from sleep deprivation.

Bad idea... Your exhausted state will be used to his advantage as he sucks you and your mind into the twilight zone. He already thinks he can hook you. Otherwise he wouldn't respond to you or he'd put you on ignore, too.

[nukedkitty]

 

I'm going to make coffee after coffee untill end3 comes back, or pass out from sleep deprivation.

Bad idea... Your exhausted state will be used to his advantage as he sucks you and your mind into the twilight zone. He already thinks he can hook you. Otherwise he wouldn't respond to you or he'd put you on ignore, too.

Is this true, am I just fish bait.

[mymistake]

 

Yes, End can repent and Christ can deliver him for all his shortcomings.

And as for FTNZ, the injured party in this situation...?  The person End sinned against and wronged?  The one person he should reach out to in grace?

 

Well, as far as End's concerned, so long as he's right with God about his sins - she can go **** herself!

 

 

 

Jesus has already forgiven those sins so you are being the bad guy by bringing up all the sins Jesus has erased.

 

 

Why doesn't Jesus ever pay off my mortgage?  It seems to me that the blood of Jesus would wipe that debt away.

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

(snip)

BornAgainAtheist, I like your star trek avatar. Have you seen those trekback parodies.

 

 

Nope.

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

Yes, End can repent and Christ can deliver him for all his shortcomings.

And as for FTNZ, the injured party in this situation...?  The person End sinned against and wronged?  The one person he should reach out to in grace?

 

Well, as far as End's concerned, so long as he's right with God about his sins - she can go **** herself!

 

 

 

Jesus has already forgiven those sins so you are being the bad guy by bringing up all the sins Jesus has erased.

 

 

Why doesn't Jesus ever pay off my mortgage?  It seems to me that the blood of Jesus would wipe that debt away.

 

 

Yes MM.

 

And Jesus will never tell End to go and apologize and be reconciled with the people he's hurt, abused, insulted, wronged and sinned against.

 

Convenient, huh?

 

End's model of Christian responsibility is strictly vertical - between him and Jesus.  

 

He doesn't have to do anything on a person-to-person basis, whatsoever.  

 

 

So long as Jesus forgives his shortcomings, everything's just dandy!  

 

[mymistake]

 

 

And Jesus will never tell End to go and apologize be reconciled with the people he's hurt, abused, insulted, wronged and sinned against.

 

Convenient, huh?

 

End's model of Christian responsibility is strictly vertical - between him and Jesus.  

 

He doesn't have to do anything on a person-to-person basis, whatsoever.  

 

 

So long as Jesus forgives his shortcomings, everything's just dandy!  

 

 

 

 

It's a relationship of grace.

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

 

And Jesus will never tell End to go and apologize be reconciled with the people he's hurt, abused, insulted, wronged and sinned against.

 

Convenient, huh?

 

End's model of Christian responsibility is strictly vertical - between him and Jesus.  

 

He doesn't have to do anything on a person-to-person basis, whatsoever.  

 

 

So long as Jesus forgives his shortcomings, everything's just dandy!  

 

 

 

 

It's a relationship of grace.

 

 

Between End3 and Jesus... not between End and anyone else.

 

End's responsible for his sins ONLY to Jesus... not to the people he sins against.

 

THAT'S what Christian responsibility means to End.