Christianity And Personal Responsibility

[Guest Furball]

 

Yeah, and God chose people because they were doing the right thing, you remember? 

 

No he didn't, unless you were being sarcastic. Here is what bible god has to say about choosing certain people:Ezekiel 36:32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord God, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

If you were being sarcastic then discard this reply, if you were being serious then you were dead wrong.

[Guest end3]

Self-forgiveness is accepting that you are not perfect… but is useless unless there is the will to change - because continuing to do the same things will only lead to apathy - the psyche can only take so much failure before it shuts down to protect the ego. One can only change things by realistically accepting where one is… you can't change what you can't see. You won't change things you can't accept about yourself. The subconscious doesn't know the difference between what is real and what you think. (this is deep, and important) All change ultimately comes from the subconscious.. through the conscious, by willful action.

 

Guilt and shame can be great pointers, to show yourself where you have violated your own moral sense, but held on to for too long can poison the psyche and self-esteem to the point where it saps one's energy to change, or strive to be a better person at all. To forgive ones self is to turn a page and begin to write a new script, a fresh start… focusing on the negative only, makes it larger and harder to conquer. This is the point where people come to the point of believing THEY can't really DO anything or change themselves at all. It's a lie.

 

One can be humble and teachable without wallowing in self-flagellation or submitting to an outside authority. One can be moral without constantly berating oneself. This is the basics of things like CBT, DBT and other psychological methods for mental and emotional health.

 

Consistent personal responsibility is akin to mastery… and mastery is the key to self-esteem. Only accomplishment will build a healthy psyche, wishful thinking won't do it, prayer won't do it, meditation won't do it, only action - failure and successes and a steady climb to ones goals will… if it's in the mind only then it's narcissism, not self-esteem.

 

One can rationalize being a dick, or not being responsible (aka - being hurtful to ones self or others), and feel okay about it for a while through mental gymnastics and self-pity/feeling offended (butthurt), but if one continues in this the subconscious will know better and will mess you up eventually. Deep down you will know you have failed… and the cycle continues, because to not accept this you will either turn it inward, or lash out at others...

 

That's what I have learned about personal responsibility and the self, in my few years on this little mud ball.

 

Christian responsibility is a much larger order… the standard is pretty damn high. As part of a very vocal and active group espousing certain values and even trying to impose those values on others, one is a walking EXAMPLE of the entire group. An ambassador, if you will. people will judge the entire value system of the group by your behaviour. (example - the disdain people have for moderate Muslims in the face of extremist violence)

 

For Ex-Christians, who are very aware of the standards set by the Bible, it is even more glaring. The example set by Christ was of poverty, homelessness, patience, extreme generosity, understanding, acceptance of those who did not live his values (sinners), going out of his way to heal, feed and care for others, respect for personal choices (note that he ALWAYS asked if the person wanted what he offered, i.e.: healing, he understood boundaries and respected others right to choose for themselves), rejecting retaliation as a way to live (love thine enemies), commitment (marriage, to the faith, to witnessing - all very extreme - to the point of walking away from a regular life if one wanted to actually be his disciple) In other words he promoted saying what one means and meaning what one says, and sticking to it. (no lying! No going back on one's promises!) Calling the religious authorities on their corruption (The Temple fiasco) and rejecting wealth and comfort for ones ideals, as well as rejecting the need for recognition (public prayer and public displays of piety). And number one on the list… not judging others… which I see as his understanding that we are all human - and we have NO idea what another has gone through or experiences to be where they are, nor can we.

 

That's a tall order and I would say less than .1% of Christians actually live up to it. In my eyes those are the only real christians. However, if most would just practice the one… non-judgment, the world would be a much better place. It comes down to rejecting the elitism inherent in christianity. A quality I can't seem to find in Jesus' words. I think he meant it to be inclusive… originally. (Of course he focused on the Hebrews, except for one Samaritan - so who really knows?)

 

So.. basically, don't be a dick, and show the world your best expression of truly following your God.     Namasté

Thank you R. Very much appreciated. Will have to read it slowly and think about it in order to give you a decent response. But sincere thanks.

[Guest end3]

 

Yeah, and God chose people because they were doing the right thing, you remember?

No he didn't, unless you were being sarcastic. Here is what bible god has to say about choosing certain people:Ezekiel 36:32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord [/size]God[/size], be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.[/size]

If you were being sarcastic then discard this reply, if you were being serious then you were dead wrong.

 

Noah?

[Guest Furball]

You mean the guy who was a drunk, who lied naked in his tent so his kids could see his nakedness and then cursed his child for seeing him naked? That noah you mean?

 

No drunkard will inherit the kingdom of god, and as john bunyan stated, we never knew if he was saved eternally, only temporarily. 

 

According to the bible, since noah was a drunkard, he is currently still serving an eternal sentence in hell to this very day for liking his wine a little too much. 

[Guest end3]

You mean the guy who was a drunk, who lied naked in his tent so his kids could see his nakedness and then cursed his child for seeing him naked? That noah you mean?

 

No drunkard will inherit the kingdom of god, and as john bunyan stated, we never knew if he was saved eternally, only temporarily. 

 

According to the bible, since noah was a drunkard, he is currently still serving an eternal sentence in hell to this very day for liking his wine a little too much.

Everybody needs a beer every now and then. Loosen thy panties CC, it's going to be alright.

[bornagainathiest]

 

End3, can you not explain the christian doctrine of forgiveness.

Sure intellectually, but believing something means to me that it has to be on some level where it becomes truth. Have had many revelations on various concepts within Christianity, but never one on forgiveness.

 

 

Sorry End, but this is just wrong.

 

In Biblical Christianity nobody is expected to believe in the concept of forgiveness by personal revelation.  

The Christian belief in forgiveness, as described in scripture, is accepted by Christians by faith. No special revelation is required or needed.  If you say that you need to experience such a revelation to make forgiveness true for you, then you are adding an unnecessary and un-scriptural 'condition of acceptance' to the Christian belief system.

 

Also, you're forcing God's hand by requiring him to give you the personal revelation you want before you'll accept forgiveness as a Biblical truth.

As I'm sure you're aware, God cannot be coerced like this and nor are his terms and conditions up for negotiation.  It's his way, not your way or not at all.  Forgiveness is there in the Bible for you to accept by faith, not by some kind personal revelation.

 

Please re-think this.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[mymistake]

 

You mean the guy who was a drunk, who lied naked in his tent so his kids could see his nakedness and then cursed his child for seeing him naked? That noah you mean?

 

No drunkard will inherit the kingdom of god, and as john bunyan stated, we never knew if he was saved eternally, only temporarily. 

 

According to the bible, since noah was a drunkard, he is currently still serving an eternal sentence in hell to this very day for liking his wine a little too much.

Everybody needs a beer every now and then. Loosen thy panties CC, it's going to be alright.

 

 

 

It was only the curse that was used to justify genocide in Bronze Age Israel and to justify slavery during the Age of Imperialism.  So we are only talking about millions of human beings who needlessly suffered for the sake of that Bible passage.  But imaginary God thought that imaginary Noah was a great guy.

[Fweethawt]

 

Self-forgiveness is accepting that you are not perfect… but is useless unless there is the will to change - because continuing to do the same things will only lead to apathy - the psyche can only take so much failure before it shuts down to protect the ego. One can only change things by realistically accepting where one is… you can't change what you can't see. You won't change things you can't accept about yourself. The subconscious doesn't know the difference between what is real and what you think. (this is deep, and important) All change ultimately comes from the subconscious.. through the conscious, by willful action. Guilt and shame can be great pointers, to show yourself where you have violated your own moral sense, but held on to for too long can poison the psyche and self-esteem to the point where it saps one's energy to change, or strive to be a better person at all. To forgive ones self is to turn a page and begin to write a new script, a fresh start… focusing on the negative only, makes it larger and harder to conquer. This is the point where people come to the point of believing THEY can't really DO anything or change themselves at all. It's a lie. One can be humble and teachable without wallowing in self-flagellation or submitting to an outside authority. One can be moral without constantly berating oneself. This is the basics of things like CBT, DBT and other psychological methods for mental and emotional health. Consistent personal responsibility is akin to mastery… and mastery is the key to self-esteem. Only accomplishment will build a healthy psyche, wishful thinking won't do it, prayer won't do it, meditation won't do it, only action - failure and successes and a steady climb to ones goals will… if it's in the mind only then it's narcissism, not self-esteem. One can rationalize being a dick, or not being responsible (aka - being hurtful to ones self or others), and feel okay about it for a while through mental gymnastics and self-pity/feeling offended (butthurt), but if one continues in this the subconscious will know better and will mess you up eventually. Deep down you will know you have failed… and the cycle continues, because to not accept this you will either turn it inward, or lash out at others... That's what I have learned about personal responsibility and the self, in my few years on this little mud ball. Christian responsibility is a much larger order… the standard is pretty damn high. As part of a very vocal and active group espousing certain values and even trying to impose those values on others, one is a walking EXAMPLE of the entire group. An ambassador, if you will. people will judge the entire value system of the group by your behaviour. (example - the disdain people have for moderate Muslims in the face of extremist violence) For Ex-Christians, who are very aware of the standards set by the Bible, it is even more glaring. The example set by Christ was of poverty, homelessness, patience, extreme generosity, understanding, acceptance of those who did not live his values (sinners), going out of his way to heal, feed and care for others, respect for personal choices (note that he ALWAYS asked if the person wanted what he offered, i.e.: healing, he understood boundaries and respected others right to choose for themselves), rejecting retaliation as a way to live (love thine enemies), commitment (marriage, to the faith, to witnessing - all very extreme - to the point of walking away from a regular life if one wanted to actually be his disciple) In other words he promoted saying what one means and meaning what one says, and sticking to it. (no lying! No going back on one's promises!) Calling the religious authorities on their corruption (The Temple fiasco) and rejecting wealth and comfort for ones ideals, as well as rejecting the need for recognition (public prayer and public displays of piety). And number one on the list… not judging others… which I see as his understanding that we are all human - and we have NO idea what another has gone through or experiences to be where they are, nor can we. That's a tall order and I would say less than .1% of Christians actually live up to it. In my eyes those are the only real christians. However, if most would just practice the one… non-judgment, the world would be a much better place. It comes down to rejecting the elitism inherent in christianity. A quality I can't seem to find in Jesus' words. I think he meant it to be inclusive… originally. (Of course he focused on the Hebrews, except for one Samaritan - so who really knows?) So.. basically, don't be a dick, and show the world your best expression of truly following your God.     Namasté

Thank you R. Very much appreciated. Will have to read it slowly and think about it in order to give you a decent response. But sincere thanks.

Translation for Ravenstar -- 'I know you are! But what am I?'

[Guest Furball]

Some things i have noticed about the christians on here

 

-They refuse to be responsible christians and obey the scripture that tells them to be prepared to give an answer. I have yet to see any one of them in any thread/post give any answer based on true evidence.

 

-They refuse to be responsible christians by actually obeying scripture where it tells them to have nothing to do with us, (what has light to do with darkness etc.)

 

-They refuse to be responsible christians by never answering any ex-c members questions with head on honest truth. If the bible is plain absolute truth, then why is it not one of them can give a direct answer to any ex-c members questions about christianity. 

Remember christians, you represent your lord and slave master jesus here on earth, it is your personal and eternal responsibility to show us ex-c members how wrong we are and to correct us. Speak the truth in love right? So then why do you never speak the truth when asked head on questions that require plain answers with evidence to back it up?

 

-They refuse to be responsible christians by actually being bible believing christians. The foul language they have used, the inability to show themselves an approved workman needing not to be ashamed by mishandling the "word of god" out of context, by coming onto this site inspite of scripture telling them to stay away from us, insulting (judging) other members on this site (expressly forbidden by scripture, yet they do it anyways and still deceive themselves that they are obedient true believers), and failing at every point to prove once and for all that their scriptures are true based on even a single shred of evidence. 

 

The christians that come on here in my opinion, are not real bible believing christians. Most likely they are a product of modern, watered down christianity. As a former true bible believing fanatic, i can safely say that the christians on here are not christians at all. Hypocrites, according to jesus will receive the greater damnation. That means that if judgement day were true, the christians who come on this site would be damned to a worse punishment in hell than us ex-c members.

 

Jesus makes it clear in scripture that even people who have such a hard core, living breathing faith as to have power to cast out demons and heal the sick and do many wonderful works in his name, will still be cast into hell. If hard core true believers in god/jesus/bible will still be cast into hell, what makes the loosey goosey shady lukewarm christians on this site think that they will make it to heaven. A christian on here a while back said that he bases his faith in scripture on the fact that he simply believes in god and that scripture makes life make sense. So what...according to scripture, that is the same faith as a demon, and they are on their way to hell forever. So why does that person think they are the exception, and that god will look at their demon faith and yet still let them into heaven?

 

I am still waiting for any christian on this site to start an evidence thread that once and for all proves the bible as infallible proof?

C'mon daniels, shut our lion mouths once and for all. 

[Guest end3]

Some things i have noticed about the christians on here

 

-They refuse to be responsible christians by actually obeying scripture where it tells them to have nothing to do with us, (what has light to do with darkness etc.)

Wanted to comment on this....as I may have mentioned earlier in this thread. Taking Christianity at it's face value....love, eternal life, etc., I ask myself why would I want to spend my time arguing with people who dedicate themselves towards finding disdain in someone else's method of improvement. Why wouldn't the appropriate statement be, "hey, good for you, I disagree with your methodology, but peace". Not many of you seem to get there. It's much more of active disdain not for the method, but for the person.

 

I can see now why Jesus says move on. I can see healing and moving on, but not making a career out of beating people up.....the anti-evangelical, only worse.

[mymistake]

 

Some things i have noticed about the christians on here

 

-They refuse to be responsible christians by actually obeying scripture where it tells them to have nothing to do with us, (what has light to do with darkness etc.)

Wanted to comment on this....as I may have mentioned earlier in this thread. Taking Christianity at it's face value....love, eternal life, etc., I ask myself why would I want to spend my time arguing with people who dedicate themselves towards finding disdain in someone else's method of improvement. Why wouldn't the appropriate statement be, "hey, good for you, I disagree with your methodology, but peace". Not many of you seem to get there. It's much more of active disdain not for the method, but for the person.

 

I can see now why Jesus says move on. I can see healing and moving on, but not making a career out of beating people up.....the anti-evangelical, only worse.

 

 

 

Dude, Christianity isn't just your personal method of self improvement.  Christianity is the force of oppression in Western cultures.  Sure it isn't as bad as some religions but Christianity is still doing a lot of oppressing around the world.  It's great that you are improving yourself.  And if you want to delude yourself into thinking that all your hard work is really Christ working in you then be my guest.  You have the right to religious freedom.  But please don't ignore all the evil Christianity has done to the rest of us and write it off as being out to get your self improvement method.

[duderonomy]

 

Some things i have noticed about the christians on here

 

-They refuse to be responsible christians by actually obeying scripture where it tells them to have nothing to do with us, (what has light to do with darkness etc.)

Wanted to comment on this....as I may have mentioned earlier in this thread. Taking Christianity at it's face value....love, eternal life, etc., I ask myself why would I want to spend my time arguing with people who dedicate themselves towards finding disdain in someone else's method of improvement. Why wouldn't the appropriate statement be, "hey, good for you, I disagree with your methodology, but peace". Not many of you seem to get there. It's much more of active disdain not for the method, but for the person.

 

I can see now why Jesus says move on. I can see healing and moving on, but not making a career out of beating people up.....the anti-evangelical, only worse.

 

 

 

End3, you have become one of us, knowing good from evil.

[Penguin]

Why are we asking End3 to speak for Christianity? Universalism flies in the face of the Bible. Hell, sin, judgment, all of it. Universalism is not Christianity, and Christianity is not Universalism. You can't be a Christian and believe God is going to "bury the hatchet" for humanity without contradicting the basis for Christianity (the Bible). Fundamentalism is entirely flawed, but it's closer to abiding by the Scripture than Universalist "Christians."

[bornagainathiest]

 

Some things i have noticed about the christians on here

 

-They refuse to be responsible christians by actually obeying scripture where it tells them to have nothing to do with us, (what has light to do with darkness etc.)

Wanted to comment on this....as I may have mentioned earlier in this thread. Taking Christianity at it's face value....love, eternal life, etc., I ask myself why would I want to spend my time arguing with people who dedicate themselves towards finding disdain in someone else's method of improvement. Why wouldn't the appropriate statement be, "hey, good for you, I disagree with your methodology, but peace". Not many of you seem to get there. It's much more of active disdain not for the method, but for the person.

 

I can see now why Jesus says move on. I can see healing and moving on, but not making a career out of beating people up.....the anti-evangelical, only worse.

 

 

The method (Christianity) is supposed to improve the person (you), but when you insult us - we're the bad guys...?

 

We're at fault here?  We're supposed look past your anger and see the good in you?  

 

Isn't that what Jesus tells Christians (you) to do to improve themselves?

 

But we've got to do it End, not you?

 

This (shifting the blame onto us for your lack of improvement) is what you mean by a Christian taking responsibility for their own shortcomings?

.

.

.

A year from now, will we we still be here (you still cussing and blaming us) or will you really have moved on?

 

That is, left this forum for good or taken responsibility for what's inside you and improved yourself in any way?

.

.

.

Oh and btw, simply putting people on 'ignore' isn't improving yourself - it's avoiding facing up to YOUR problem.

.

.

.

02/27/2016...?

[bornagainathiest]

 

Some things i have noticed about the christians on here

 

-They refuse to be responsible christians by actually obeying scripture where it tells them to have nothing to do with us, (what has light to do with darkness etc.)

Wanted to comment on this....as I may have mentioned earlier in this thread. Taking Christianity at it's face value....love, eternal life, etc., I ask myself why would I want to spend my time arguing with people who dedicate themselves towards finding disdain in someone else's method of improvement. Why wouldn't the appropriate statement be, "hey, good for you, I disagree with your methodology, but peace". Not many of you seem to get there. It's much more of active disdain not for the method, but for the person.

 

I can see now why Jesus says move on. I can see healing and moving on, but not making a career out of beating people up.....the anti-evangelical, only worse.

 

 

The reason why this wouldn't be the appropriate response from us is this, End.

 

The Bible says that it's for the Christian (you) to live at peace with everyone (us).

 

Romans 12 : 17 & 18.

17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. 

18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.

 

According to your holy book, the onus is squarely on you to live at peace with us.

Nowhere in scripture does it ever say that Christians should expect the sinners to say, "Peace to you, brother!"

In the Bible, the expectation and responsibility for being peacemakers is ALWAYS on the Christians and never on the sinners.

[bornagainathiest]

 

Some things i have noticed about the christians on here

 

-They refuse to be responsible christians by actually obeying scripture where it tells them to have nothing to do with us, (what has light to do with darkness etc.)

Wanted to comment on this....as I may have mentioned earlier in this thread. Taking Christianity at it's face value....love, eternal life, etc., I ask myself why would I want to spend my time arguing with people who dedicate themselves towards finding disdain in someone else's method of improvement. Why wouldn't the appropriate statement be, "hey, good for you, I disagree with your methodology, but peace". Not many of you seem to get there. It's much more of active disdain not for the method, but for the person.

 

I can see now why Jesus says move on. I can see healing and moving on, but not making a career out of beating people up.....the anti-evangelical, only worse.

 

 

It's not our place to get 'there', End.  It's yours.

 

Once again you've dodged making any effort to improve yourself - by transferring the role of peacemaker onto us.

 

That's NOT Biblical Christianity at work!  It's the Christians who are the peacemakers, not the sinners.

 

You've totally reversed the meaning of Jesus' words, "Blessed are the peacemakers."

 

Q. According to Jesus, who are the peacemakers?

A.  The children of God.

 

That's you End, not us.

[Penguin]

^ More proof End3 is not a Christian. "By their fruits you shall know them." So far he's producing rotten apples and trying to tell us it's our fault.

[bornagainathiest]

^ More proof End3 is not a Christian. "By their fruits you shall know them." So far he's producing rotten apples and trying to tell us it's our fault.

 

Or that End's chosen method of self-improvement (Christianity) doesn't work, Penguin.

 

(But you're not allowed to tell him that.  He expects you to say, "Peace!" to him, even if he doesn't improve.)

[Penguin]

End3, you're a shitty example of what it means to be a Christian.

 

But, uh, peace and stuff.

[Guest end3]

End3, you're a shitty example of what it means to be a Christian.

 

But, uh, peace and stuff.

Thanks, I knew that. So here's the deal. Do you feel like your personal responsibility has been adequately resolved by leaving Christianity? Is this really the answer? Or could you/we all have found the same answer(s) regardless of Christianity. Oh, and by the way, fuck you too. Peace. (Just an acknowledgement of your avatar).

[Penguin]

 

End3, you're a shitty example of what it means to be a Christian.

 

But, uh, peace and stuff.

Thanks, I knew that. So here's the deal. Do you feel like your personal responsibility has been adequately resolved by leaving Christianity? Is this really the answer? Or could you/we all have found the same answer(s) regardless of Christianity. Oh, and by the way, fuck you too. Peace. (Just an acknowledgement of your avatar).

 

 

I'm not sure what "adequately resolved" means in this context, but I have developed a sense of personal responsibility since leaving Christianity. Prior to my conversion to reality, I put everything on God.

 

"God, help me find a job."

"God, change my attitude."

"God, make me the man you want me to be."

"God, help me to stop sinning."

 

Now, I actually take responsibility for myself and my fuck-ups. I go out and find the job. I change my attitude. I make myself into the man I should be. As for sinning, well, let's just say I avoid being a indecent human being. And yes, I say that with full knowledge of the comments I've made about End3. I call it like I see it, but I don't scare Hell into people just so I can control them and get their money.

 

So yes, I have personal responsibility. Most Christians do not.

[Guest end3]

 

 

End3, you're a shitty example of what it means to be a Christian.

 

But, uh, peace and stuff.

Thanks, I knew that. So here's the deal. Do you feel like your personal responsibility has been adequately resolved by leaving Christianity? Is this really the answer? Or could you/we all have found the same answer(s) regardless of Christianity. Oh, and by the way, fuck you too. Peace. (Just an acknowledgement of your avatar).

 

 

I'm not sure what "adequately resolved" means in this context, but I have developed a sense of personal responsibility since leaving Christianity. Prior to my conversion to reality, I put everything on God.

 

"God, help me find a job."

"God, change my attitude."

"God, make me the man you want me to be."

"God, help me to stop sinning."

 

Now, I actually take responsibility for myself and my fuck-ups. I go out and find the job. I change my attitude. I make myself into the man I should be. As for sinning, well, let's just say I avoid being a indecent human being. And yes, I say that with full knowledge of the comments I've made about End3. I call it like I see it, but I don't scare Hell into people just so I can control them and get their money.

 

So yes, I have personal responsibility. Most Christians do not.

 

I guess what I am trying to convey is like that old saying, "sometimes you just have to drop your pants and slide one the ice". I'm not sure Christianity is the necessary evil that it's made out to be. For example, from your comment. not everyone is attempting to control people and their money. There are probably as many "bad" points that can be made of any endeavor. Maybe personal responsibility is more of an acknowledgement of seeing the reality of our lives vs. our context, our experience, and responding. Granted, it's refreshing.

[florduh]

Of course if there is a heaven/eternal life, yes, I would like everyone to go....why not.

 

IF? IF there is a heaven?

 

This little gem caught my eye as I was skimming the thread. I thought it was an interesting comment, considering the source.

 

But end3's input, here and elsewhere, spawned this question in my head: As a sincere Christian matures in the faith, does he become more and more or less and less radical/preachy/fundy/rigid as time goes by? Is a "mature" believer more likely to admit he doesn't have all the answers? Does faith play a larger or smaller role in the daily life of the well seasoned believer?

 

Maybe these questions need their own thread, maybe not. Though few, if any, current believers would respond there are many of us who did have a long stint in the religion.

[bornagainathiest]

 

End3, you're a shitty example of what it means to be a Christian.

 

But, uh, peace and stuff.

Thanks, I knew that. So here's the deal. Do you feel like your personal responsibility has been adequately resolved by leaving Christianity? Is this really the answer? Or could you/we all have found the same answer(s) regardless of Christianity. Oh, and by the way, fuck you too. Peace. (Just an acknowledgement of your avatar).

 

 

Did you see what End just did to you, Penguin?

 

He stated... "Here's the deal"...and then fired questions at you about your personal responsibility outside of Christianity.

 

See the deflection?  

 

This thread isn't about personal responsibility outside of Christianity.

It's about how Christians handle personal responsibility inside Christianity.

 

Within the faith and according to the Bible and in obedience to God.

About how End (the Christian) handles personal responsibility as a Christian.  NOT about how Penguin (the Ex-Christian) handles personal responsibility outside of Christianity!   If End wants to debate that different subject, he can start a new thread about it. 

 

Penguin, you gotta watch End very carefully and work hard to keep him on-track, on-topic and on-message!

He'll do anything, try any trick and take any escape route to avoid being held responsible for his Un-Christian behavior.

Now, there's plenty of quotes from scripture you could hit him with to help keep him honest.

Since he won't pay any attention to anything I quote, maybe you could shame him into taking responsibility?

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[Penguin]

I did see End3's deflection of the topic, BAA, though I chose to humor him. I did take one or two cheap shots in the way I presented my points about his adherence to Christianity. Regardless of how I put the point, it still stands: Universalism is not a Christian doctrine.

 

As for taking End3 to task:

 

It is true he has yet to answer the question about personal responsibility within Christianity. Though I believe I deserved his "fuck you," he couldn't even take responsibility for that; he excused it as "responding to my avatar," rather than admitting that he was pissed at me.

 

As for personal responsibility within Christianity, there is none.

 

1 Peter 5:7

Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you. There is no encouragement here to own one's responsibilities.

 

Psalm 55:22

Cast your cares on the Lord and he will sustain you; he will never let the righteous be shaken. Again, cast your cares on the Lord and let him take care of them. Don't bother to do anything about them yourself.

 

Matthew 6:11

Give us today our daily bread. Give us, rather than let us work for it.

 

Matthew 6:13b

...but deliver us from the evil one. In contradiction to James 4:7, Matthew encourages relying on God to protect one from the Devil, rather than James' advice to resist the Devil and make him flee.

 

Proverbs 3:5-6

Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight. Trust God, rather than think for yourself. Don't bother doing anything for yourself, but just submit to God and let him take care of it.

 

Never mind the numerous verses begging God for mercy and promising his leniency. The Christian then turns around and tells "sinners" they must pay for their sins. Christians won't even bother to defend their faith (again in contradiction to their Bible) because "the Holy Spirit will speak for me." Any time personal responsibility is demanded or encouraged in the Bible, it is contradicted by something else that says, "trust God, because you're worthless and helpless on your own."