NoOne Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share Posted February 28, 2015 Jutta, you reminded me of this video I watched with Laci Green and feminism. Her boyfriend made a quick cameo and said how most men wouldn't like feminism as it tries to split their power and privileges with women. I found that interesting. He also said that people would take women's issue seriously if a man were to bring attention to them as opposed to a woman. He said that "he cares and is a hero, but she's just whining". I found that interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedStar Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I'm all for people expressing different opinions but it won't help you in any way to call people "nut jobs" for speaking about an issue that is real. I do not see this as some kind of competition about who has it worse and why, above all, I'm interested in all people being treated fairly and equally. I don't doubt that many women don't report rapes and when things aren't reported it's impossible to get accurate statistics on exactly how many of these horrendous things occur. I haven't seen anyone argue here that this doesn't happen. I'm a woman and I'm not seeing any "witch hunting" here. I haven't seen anyone on here say that men and women should not be treated equally. I'm also one of the people who spoke of false accusations, it's not just the men doing that. I personally don't see why it should be considered offensive to speak about that when it's also something that happens. It doesn't matter if it happens less than genuine accusations, it's still a major problem that needs to be addressed, frequency of occurrence is not the deciding factor in how serious or damaging any particular event is. I also haven't seen anyone claim that "all" men will lose in custody battles. Don't get me wrong here, I think the way you've been treated is disgusting and it shouldn't have happened. How you feel is definitely valid but please remember that everyone has different personal experiences and they don't cancel each other out.I understand that you're angry, but people will be more likely to listen if you ease up on the personal attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jutta Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Nut jobs. Nut jobs. Nut jobs. Pardon me for being insensitive. The original question was about feminism... then come the rants about false rape accusations. "Let's discredit the whole idea of women's rights by mentioning how particular women abuse men." I've been a victim of false accusations in the courts themselves, granted this was family court, and not about rape, but I can understand the helplessness one can feel in the face of an adversary who has money and people on his or her side. Luckily my ex didn't win-- mostly due to the judgement of a court ordered male psychologist. I'll stand by this: money talks in the justice system, at least in my country. People who are willing to abuse the legal system at the expense of others come in all genders. And look at how many women back up into a corner and defend the male posters. Rah-Rah sisterhood. Right. Only more evidence that the guys who are so frightened at the word "feminism" have nothing to fear. Our fellow sisters will keep us in our places, thank you very much. Let's keep this topic going on high profile cases of women falsely accusing regular Joe's of rape... You can't trust those sneaky sinful daughters of Eve. I'm sorry, but in my country, the US, things are going backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I don't see how a particular woman abusing a man would discredit the idea of women's rights. That doesn't follow. A goal of humanism is to extend human rights to everyone. So women's rights stand on their own merit. What does fear have to do with anything? An entire gender isn't a single homogenous block. This whole "them vs. us" mentality is part of the problem. Are the male posters bad guys? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jutta Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 The male posters who have a major gripe against approaching the topic of "women's rights" know who they are. They come out of the woodwork every time the topic is mentioned and try their hardest to discredit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedStar Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Nut jobs. Nut jobs. Nut jobs. Pardon me for being insensitive. The original question was about feminism... then come the rants about false rape accusations. "Let's discredit the whole idea of women's rights by mentioning how particular women abuse men." I've been a victim of false accusations in the courts themselves, granted this was family court, and not about rape, but I can understand the helplessness one can feel in the face of an adversary who has money and people on his or her side. Luckily my ex didn't win-- mostly due to the judgement of a court ordered male psychologist. I'll stand by this: money talks in the justice system, at least in my country. People who are willing to abuse the legal system at the expense of others come in all genders. And look at how many women back up into a corner and defend the male posters. Rah-Rah sisterhood. Right. Only more evidence that the guys who are so frightened at the word "feminism" have nothing to fear. Our fellow sisters will keep us in our places, thank you very much. Let's keep this topic going on high profile cases of women falsely accusing regular Joe's of rape... You can't trust those sneaky sinful daughters of Eve. I'm sorry, but in my country, the US, things are going backwards. If you consider people to be "nut jobs" when they have views that differ from your then you're ruining your own credibility. Nobody is "discrediting" the idea of women's rights by speaking about false accusations. That does not logically follow at all and again, nobody has said that women should not have equal rights. False accusations happen to males and females, I feel equally passionate about the unfairness of false accusations against people no matter who they are or what their gender is. It was only brought up because people were speaking about a female lawyer who wants every claim to be believed straight off the bat. That's not something I can agree with no matter what the claim is or who it is against, and the gender of the person does not change the way I perceive that. Who's "backing up into a corner?" I have and share my views regardless of whether or not people agree with me and I won't be bullied by anybody, that goes for offline too, I'm only 5ft1 but I have much bigger than me who are scared of me because they know I won't take any crap. Those men have never tried to be dominant towards me or act like they're better than me in any way. I also don't hold to stereotypes of what people think women should be or do. I keep pet snakes and ride an 1100cc motorcycle. I don't remember having any man tell me I couldn't do something because I'm a woman, and if one ever did he'd soon be very sorry. I'm certainly not trying to keep anyone in their "places." I doubt you'll get anywhere by accusing people of having positions they never claimed to have by using logical fallacies and only perceiving thing how you choose to through confirmation bias and projecting your own views onto people who aren't saying or doing the things you accuse them of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 The male posters who have a major gripe against approaching the topic of "women's rights" know who they are. They come out of the woodwork every time the topic is mentioned and try their hardest to discredit it. Come on. The people discrediting feminism are Silent Loner, Orbit and you. Nobody is discrediting women's rights. Lose the chip on your shoulder. Being male doesn't make people evil. You can't name anybody in this thread who isn't for equal rights. This constant bickering arises out of the threat that perhaps there is a better pathway to gender equality. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jutta Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 For some posters on this board, despite their claims of wanting equal rights for all, my gender automatically reduces my credibility. Otherwise, they wouldn't be replying to every single thread about feminism/equal rights for women with such tenacity, throwing in any instances they can conjure up to discredit it. I recall some threads last summer where it seemed as if a handful of male posters would literally haunt a few female posters who were passionate about the topic-- in every other post the females would write in regardless of the topic--- some of those original threads were eventually deleted. Inevitably, these posts on this site about this topic eventually dwindle down to a few philosophical males talking about the absurdity of "feminism" as they define it. The women posters either disappear or defend their menfolk against the "injustices of misandry". The sad trappings of fundamentalism hang on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Okay Jutta, what tenacity are you talking about? Last year we had two posters BD and BO who have both become inactive. Both were male. BD was an admitted troll. BO was an obvious troll. I'm certain that BO spoke against women's right. Both of those guys made a huge contribution to the strife and stress regarding Feminism but neither one of them is here right now. How about we move forward? Let's start fresh and have a productive conversation. Fair enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted March 1, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted March 1, 2015 ...my gender automatically reduces my credibility. Your gender is irrelevant. You managed to destroy your credibility by your own words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jutta Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I recognize many of the same names, with exactly the same attitudes-- See above post... Some posters have an inexhaustible desire argue against this particular topic, or deny it's necessity. I've already been accused with proclaiming that "the male posters are the bad guys", and have been forbidden to write posts unless I discuss a particular "false rape" story-- a few of the male posters feel entitled to laying down the rules. Every feminist/women's right's thread on this board inevitably gets hijacked. The majority of women posters shrug their shoulders and scatter, outnumbered, or tire from exhaustion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jutta Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 ...my gender automatically reduces my credibility. Your gender is irrelevant. You managed to destroy your credibility by your own words. So clever. Judging by the moderation on here, no wonder all of these particular threads end up in a train wreck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Jutta, if you were to encounter a group of progressive men who were open to conversation what would that look like? What would you hope for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoOne Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 I'm intentionally going to be obnoxious and shift the attention here because I actually have a legit question relating to a feminist view. I actually mentioned this on my blog...when I get older, I'm definitely going to take more control of how I dress and present myself. I want to be the type of girl who wears heels and those fishnet things. I like tight dresses, skirts, and skinny jeans because they really emphasize curves and I think they just look sexy. I would like to show off more body more when I'm older because I feels like it looks sexy and it shows that you're happy in your natural skin. I'm not going to go total Beyoncé but I'll be more provocative than I am now. I will admit, and particularly since I have been brought up this way, I have the tendency to see women and girls who dress more revealing as "skanks" and just wanting male approval. But lately, I've been thinking they're just dressing for themselves. Kind of like putting on makeup or something. Anyway, I know a lot of feminists would agree with my new line of thinking. Women should be able to wear what they what without harassment or being judged because men aren't, a feminist may argue. I don't know if men are judged, but women definitely are. Views or opinions on this? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted March 1, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted March 1, 2015 ...my gender automatically reduces my credibility. Your gender is irrelevant. You managed to destroy your credibility by your own words. So clever. Judging by the moderation on here, no wonder all of these particular threads end up in a train wreck. If you dislike the membership the threads and the moderation here, feel free to leave anytime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 But lately, I've been thinking they're just dressing for themselves. Kind of like putting on makeup or something. Anyway, I know a lot of feminists would agree with my new line of thinking. Women should be able to wear what they what without harassment or being judged because men aren't, a feminist may argue. I don't know if men are judged, but women definitely are. Well normally when such topics come up my approach was to talk about all gender issues. My thinking was that this would promote mutual understanding and that mutual understanding reduces gender issues. But for some reason that approach doesn't seem to work. The one thing I don't get from women's fashion is the pump shoes. I encourage my wife to wear flats as often as she likes. I know pumps are suppose to make the wearer look good but I feel so bad for their poor little toes. I wouldn't want anybody to harm their toes for fashion. Good on you DG for having a healthy outlook and self image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jutta Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 ...my gender automatically reduces my credibility. Your gender is irrelevant. You managed to destroy your credibility by your own words. So clever. Judging by the moderation on here, no wonder all of these particular threads end up in a train wreck. If you dislike the membership the threads and the moderation here, feel free to leave anytime. So inviting. I dislike the moderation and handling of threads regarding this particular topic. They end up with the same result, the same posters slamming the female posters, giving each other rep points, crowding the females out, derailing the topic and reducing it to a personal attack against certain (mostly female) posters. All the more reason not to donate a dime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Jutta you are not being persecuted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoOne Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 But lately, I've been thinking they're just dressing for themselves. Kind of like putting on makeup or something. Anyway, I know a lot of feminists would agree with my new line of thinking. Women should be able to wear what they what without harassment or being judged because men aren't, a feminist may argue. I don't know if men are judged, but women definitely are. Well normally when such topics come up my approach was to talk about all gender issues. My thinking was that this would promote mutual understanding and that mutual understanding reduces gender issues. But for some reason that approach doesn't seem to work. The one thing I don't get from women's fashion is the pump shoes. I encourage my wife to wear flats as often as she likes. I know pumps are suppose to make the wearer look good but I feel so bad for their poor little toes. I wouldn't want anybody to harm their toes for fashion. Good on you DG for having a healthy outlook and self image. I try to talk about all genders too, but sometimes I feel like you have to talk more about the people who...I don't know how to say it...more "disadvantaged" in that specific case. I know sometimes when you try to expand it, it comes off as trying to erase the side who has it worst. If that makes sense? And thanks I'm tried to be happier with my body, I know I'll definitely look better when I'm older. I'm a bit of an ugly duckling right now lol. And much as I love heels, I don't fall flat on my face when I'm in flats!! XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoOne Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 So inviting. I dislike the moderation and handling of threads regarding this particular topic. They end up with the same result, the same posters slamming the female posters, giving each other rep points, crowding the females out, derailing the topic and reducing it to a personal attack against certain (mostly female) posters. All the more reason not to donate a dime. I'm a girl, I'm still here. Probably because I've been trying to play it neutral and not say much, but I'm still here. I will admit though, I'm not too happy with the way we're treating the feminists here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jutta Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Jutta you are not being persecuted. I'm not claiming that I am being personally persecuted. I am claiming that there is a bad history of the handling of threads pertaining to this particular topic. Judging by the number of previous posters on this thread who "surrendered" is evidence enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Jutta you are not being persecuted. I'm not claiming that I am being personally persecuted. I am claiming that there is a bad history of the handling of threads pertaining to this particular topic. Judging by the number of previous posters on this thread who "surrendered" is evidence enough for me. Okay, how about my question from post 163? What would a healthy environment look like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jutta Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Well, judging by the reply made in #160, this is not a healthy environment. One would expect more support in an ex-christian community in regards to this particular topic, considering the poor track record christianity has towards females. Oh well, no big deal, just another potential donor turns and walks away... and countless other anonymous women burned by christianity who are turned off by this thread. Why not reply to the original poster's question instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Well, judging by the reply made in #160, this is not a healthy environment. So truth is not support. Silentloner, Orbit and you all entered the conversation with aggressive attacks. And people (if they were male) who suggested you not do that were treated as enemies. Why not reply to the original poster's question instead? I did on page 1, post #3. My answer was: "I love equality. Some people say Feminism is simply equality. Unfortunately other people act as if Feminism means something entirely different. The name has so much baggage that we should probably look for a new name. Those who seek gender equality can use HeForShe or even humanism. Isn't that what we really want? Equality for all humans? I don't see how anybody could be a humanist without wanting gender equality. Under humanism gender equality is a standard human right that should be taken for granted once it is achieved. We have some work to do in the West where a few problems remain. And we have a lot of work to do in Africa and the Middle East where some people live under barbaric conditions." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jutta Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Well, judging by the reply made in #160, this is not a healthy environment. So truth is not support. Silentloner, Orbit and you all entered the conversation with aggressive attacks. And people (if they were male) who suggested you not do that were treated as enemies. Reply #160 is not aggressive? This is a "Rant and Replies" forum, is it not? Or is it too unladylike to rant? Should I have been more passive-agressive instead? My apologies for stepping outside of my pre-ordained role. Obviously, the OP has had her question answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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