What's Your Opinion On Feminism?

[duderonomy]

Well, judging by the reply made in #160, this is not a healthy environment. One would expect more support in an ex-christian community in regards to this particular topic, considering the poor track record christianity has towards females.

Oh well, no big deal, just another potential donor turns and walks away... and countless other anonymous women burned by christianity who are turned off by this thread.

 

Why not reply to the original poster's question instead?

 

Have you replied to the Op, Jutta? What's your opinion on feminism?   All I've seen is the victim card.

 

Maybe you have never seen a healthy environment of ideas before?  Because this is one. They let me talk, warts and all, and certainly they will let you talk too.  But if you want to be heard...really heard, you'll need to drop the anger down a notch or two and quit behaving like a snotty nosed kid.

 

A potential donor walks away? Really? I've never given a dime to this site. You can't buy your way in here, and who the Hell are you to pretend to know what women should do? If this is your idea of feminism, to shame other women into a way of thinking or acting, then you are no different than the men you seem to disdain.

[Jutta]

Oh boy, here they come. Knee-jerk reaction. It's like a virtual g@ng bang on this discussion board.

Seriously? Why don't you just ignore the little she-troll and pay attention to the original poster? 

 

Don't you realize you are only proving my point? These threads are derailed and turn into an ugly gender war. Every. Single. Time.

 

Did I ever write that I disdain all men? No.

Did I ever write that all male posters are evil? No.

 

Do certain female posters constantly get pushed out of "feminism" threads by certain male posters? Yes.

Do certain male posters rant against certain female posters and give each other reps for putting the female poster down? Yes.

Do certain female posters simply drop the feminism threads because they know they "can't win"? Yes.

 

Shame on you hypocrites. You shed the christianity but keep your self-righteousness in full force. 

[duderonomy]

Oh boy, here they come. Knee-jerk reaction. It's like a virtual g@ng bang on this discussion board.

Seriously? Why don't you just ignore the little she-troll and pay attention to the original poster? 

 

Don't you realize you are only proving my point? These threads are derailed and turn into an ugly gender war. Every. Single. Time.

 

Did I ever write that I disdain all men? No.

Did I ever write that all male posters are evil? No.

 

Do certain female posters constantly get pushed out of "feminism" threads by certain male posters? Yes.

Do certain male posters rant against certain female posters and give each other reps for putting the female poster down? Yes.

Do certain female posters simply drop the feminism threads because they know they "can't win"? Yes.

 

Shame on you hypocrites. You shed the christianity but keep your self-righteousness in full force. 

 

Really Jutta, I do hope you stick around.  I'd bet that you hate this song. It will feed your hate for at least two minutes, which is more than what the Ministry of Truth demands.  Let me know what you think about it, won't you?  Thanks.

 

[Jutta]

"A potential donor walks away? Really? I've never given a dime to this site. You can't buy your way in here, and who the Hell are you to pretend to know what women should do? If this is your idea of feminism, to shame other women into a way of thinking or acting, then you are no different than the men you seem to disdain."

 

--- to reply to you, duderonomy...

 

I have made no attempt to shame women into any particular way of thought. I have made no claim to disdain all men. My gripe is against the handling of these kinds of threads about this particular topic. 

 

The loss of potential donors would be a obvious side effect if threads such as these turn off women who visit this site. Unless the pleas for donations are bogus. 

 

Too bad what constitutes being a "grown up girl" on his forum involves being a submissive doormat and backing down.

[duderonomy]

 

"A potential donor walks away? Really? I've never given a dime to this site. You can't buy your way in here, and who the Hell are you to pretend to know what women should do? If this is your idea of feminism, to shame other women into a way of thinking or acting, then you are no different than the men you seem to disdain."

 

--- to reply to you, duderonomy...

 

I have made no attempt to shame women into any particular way of thought. I have made no claim to disdain all men. My gripe is against the handling of these kinds of threads about this particular topic. 

 

The loss of potential donors would be a obvious side effect if threads such as these turn off women who visit this site. Unless the pleas for donations are bogus. 

 

 

I knew you'd settle down after I talked to you. I hope you enjoyed the song.

[duderonomy]

"Too bad what constitutes being a "grown up girl" on his forum involves being a submissive doormat and backing down."

Edited by Jutta, Today, 11:46 PM.

 

It's not cool to go back and edit without specifying what what the edit was or was for. You know that.

[Thurisaz]

...Women should be able to wear what they what without harassment or being judged because men aren't, a feminist may argue. I don't know if men are judged, but women definitely are.

Views or opinions on this?

 

Of course... why would anyone be banned from dressing how they want to? The only boundary that spontaneously occurs to me would be to cross the line into pornography or "erotic art" in public places where that's not expected. You know, if you'd go out wearing nothing but high heels... methinks you should better expect some trouble

Which is not to say that there should be a law or somesuch demanding that you not walk through the park naked... just saying that if you do, that will definitely be strong conflict potential.

 

(Edit: Another borderline would be dressing in a way that lets it look like you are a member of a hate group or such. For example, if you walk around in a SS uniform you'll probably not make the kind of friends you're looking for.)

 

That said, we might want to define what kind of "judgment" we mean here. If I see an attractive gal out there during a walk through town or such, am I judging her appearance? Sure I am. A woman would do the same with an attractive dude. I think the borderline should be between judging whether you personally find this person sexy and thinking "I don't think (s)he looks good therefore (s)he's worthless as a person". You know, if as a man you find a given woman not exactly hot, well, shit happens. But if you (for example) refuse to give her directions or (a real worst-case scenario) refuse to help her in an emergency just because she's not turning you on... you're definitely an asshole. Same goes for reversed genders of course.

 

I'm a girl, I'm still here. Probably because I've been trying to play it neutral and not say much, but I'm still here. I will admit though, I'm not too happy with the way we're treating the feminists here.

 

Aaaah but is it really "feminists" we argue against here? I can't speak for everyone but for me, for example, that woman who sometime ago PM'd me on this site with the statement that men literally don't even deserve basic human rights when around a woman is no feminist. She claimed to be one. That's an important difference. One can claim pretty much everything about him/herself, doesn't automatically make it true. I could just as well claim I'm really the pope, posting here just for shits and giggles... somehow I don't think anyone would believe me that if I did, no?

 

There are those who basically argue as if feminism itself was the problem, I won't deny that. As I see it, that's not technically correct. I've said it before in this thread and I'll say it again - feminism as officially defined *nods to Orbit* is good and (sadly) still needed in this world. The only thing we might perhaps want to argue about is its name, which I think is at least easy to misunderstand as "ah you're a 'feminist' so you only care about women and their situation and the other half of humanity can go to hell' ". But then, considering how the world was when the movement was born, I think that's hardly the most important issue about it all.

 

The problem is with people like that woman from my PMs. People (mostly but not exclusively women) who call themselves feminists but then make claims and statements and demands that are bizarre at best and pure hatred at worst. People who basically put on a mask that has "feminist" written on it and then feel safe to be assholes against everyone.

 

Sadly, our societies often work in a way that represents entire large and *nods to Orbit again* diverse groups by its most extremist (claimed) members. If you have 100 feminists gathered and one or two of them act like assholes, guess about whom the media will endlessly talk? Guess whom everyone will look at and point at? Hint: It's not the many many reasonable ones.

 

This can go as far as most people indeed thinking the entire movement is a load of batshit insane dangerous nutjobs. It's happened to many groups and (at least here in Germany... let me repeat once again that I'm not talking about the US where most of you folks live) it's happened to feminism too. I'm absolutely honest to you all when I now say that, until I read some things on this site, I wasn't even fucking aware that something like reasonable feminism exists in the real world. It's simply never talked about here, not by the opinion shapers at least. Sure, if you already suspect the mainstream may be bullshitting you have a chance to do your own research... but for that you first need to become at least a little bit suspicious about that mainstream story. All the more as no one has an infinite amount of time for research. You can't just go out and study everything for yourself. Which is another major contributor to the dilemma.

 

I'm pretty sure I've already said it in one of my first postings in this thread... there's assholes on both sides. We all need to acknowledge that, specifically for the assholes on our respective sides (it's always easy to identify the other side's ones isn't it?). Are there assholes among us men who think that, for example, "all them bitchez are lying whenever they cry 'rape!' " or such? Sure there are. There are also female assholes like the one I mentioned above. We need to get rid of the assholes on both sides or at least keep them in check, then we can make some real progress.

 

And that's a job for everyone of us. Just pointing at the other side may make one feel good but it doesn't help things that much.

 

(And if someone wants to ask, yes I do that. I'm speaking out against sexism on both sides. Has brought me many irritated sideglances already but fuck them all)

[mymistake]

 

Don't you realize you are only proving my point?

 

Nope.  You act as if women attacking men is normal but this environment is unhealthy if men have free speech.

 

 

 

Do certain female posters constantly get pushed out of "feminism" threads by certain male posters? Yes.

Do certain male posters rant against certain female posters and give each other reps for putting the female poster down? Yes.

Do certain female posters simply drop the feminism threads because they know they "can't win"? Yes.

 

You could reverse the genders in all those statements and they would still be true.  Again you want for women to be able to attack men but men must be restricted.  That isn't equality.

 

Women are not being persecuted here.  What is happening is that Feminism gets examined with critical thinking and the third wave ideology doesn't handle that well.

 

The world is what you make it.  Don't bring hostility here and there won't be hostility.

[mymistake]

 

 

Well, judging by the reply made in #160, this is not a healthy environment. 

 

 

So truth is not support.  Silentloner, Orbit and you all entered the conversation with aggressive attacks.  And people (if they were male) who suggested you not do that were treated as enemies.

 

Reply #160 is not aggressive?  This is a "Rant and Replies" forum, is it not? Or is it too unladylike to rant? Should I have been more passive-agressive instead? My apologies for stepping outside of my pre-ordained role.

Obviously, the OP has had her question answered.

 

 

 

In my opinion it is not aggressive.  It simply states the truth.  Would you expect a healthy environment to hide that truth, sugar coat it or perhaps something else?

 

You have been given no pre-ordained role.  You refuse to be civil with people who are being civil.  Rude behavior isn't a crime but what do you expect people to think about you?

[duderonomy]

Jutta is extra equal. Strange I didn't see that before.

[mymistake]

 

Too bad what constitutes being a "grown up girl" on his forum involves being a submissive doormat and backing down.

 

 

 

Uh no.  Be a critical thinker.  Use logic.  Question your premises.  Look for your own biases and try to

 

compensate for them.  Ask good questions.  Find a new way to look at it.  Solve problems.  Encourage others.

 

None of that has anything to do with being a doormat.  However when one is wrong it takes courage to back

 

down.  Not everyone has the guts to dare.  To be a true critical thinker you will have to own your mistakes.

 

 

 

 

 

(edited for spacing) - there you go duderonomy!

[yunea]

So it's a bad thing women are going quiet? Well... I'm a woman. Why am I quiet? I didn't feel I was losing in this thread, I just didn't have anything to add after what I've first said.

 

I guess that from the perspective of women in USA I'm super privileged. In my country nobody yells compliments or anything else (hardly even a hello) at a stranger unless drunk or high. I'm studying in university and that'll land me a well-paying job so I don't have to worry about lifting big things, even though I can lift pretty well as I've done gym training. The only person I've heard say I shouldn't do it (study) is my own mother, and she wasn't oppressed by my father, it was the other way round. So I don't know if I'm in any place to talk since I don't feel oppressed. If you think that my good situation puts me outside of the conversation, you're all free to scroll over what I next say. Some of it will be repeating what I said earlier.

 

I tried to take Women's studies courses in university, because I noticed the diversity of opinions online and wanted to get to know the official version better. What did I find? Women making jokes about men getting raped and giggling, women being completely ignorant about what natural sciences are (I major in maths/physics myself, plus I study also statistics), women cherry-picking things in their own liking and calling it "research" and assuming that's what everyone does. Women with horrible conduct, who said that others had no respect for them because of their gender, completely blind to what they might be doing to make the situation worse for themselves. I was appalled. Sure there were quiet women in the crowd, I don't know if they agreed with what happened at all, but it was the teachers making the rape jokes and calling men pigs, and joining in the laughter when someone shouted a joke about men. And they were supposed to be good examples of academic feminism.

 

I have experienced violence before (physical/sexual too and from both genders) and some individuals have had very sexist ideas about why it was okay. But I have never felt it's been systematic from a person to another, or that the situations had anything at all to do with each other. I've just kept running into the wrong people. Those people should be put behind bars yes, but their existence is not the fault of all the awesome people I've known.

 

I absolutely support human rights for everyone regardless of gender or other traits as long as the people aren't hurting other people, and I think every rape is too much, every act of violence is too much, and everyone (including men) ashamed of their natural body is too much.

 

I know there are women in the world much worse off than I am, and it looks like USA is one massive area for that. That's certainly not right. But you won't see me getting on barricades with the people who view the world through the lens of "everything is gender", who make up their own statistics to support their cause - the cause that IS good at the bottom line, equality, but unfortunately being blinded by anger doesn't make for good ideas about how to really make a difference. Lashing out at people (for any reason) gets them only defensive and nothing changes, making up lies gets you caught at some point and your credibility is ruined. Show true, verifiable facts, show information that is open about how it's collected and interpreted, and I'm in. Christina Hoff Sommers has me totally in and I sincerely wish that everyone who thinks that all feminism is "crazy" would check her out.

 

The "you" is at feminists in general, not anyone in particular in this thread.

[yunea]

I think I used a few wrong words. I hope you'll pardon me. What I meant:

What is claimed as fact should be verifiable *and falsifiable*.

And I'm not saying cat-calling is the worst thing American women experience. It just came to mind as one that gets very much attention online but it's one I don't have here.

 

Edit: corrected a typo.

[Castiel233]

Again this is the ugly side of isms.

 

A feminist may say, "men are monsters"

 

Her male counterpart in the men's movement  may say "women are gold diggers"

 

Each is quite sure of their own "truth"

 

There are the hysterical types in both camps 

 

 I have known feminists who demand equality, but when offered to take part in heavy and dirty work, they do not want to know, as its " a man's job". I know feminists who demand equality but want the lions share of custody of the children......not all feminists are like this of course, but the movement does look like less equality and more like special treatment.

 

Feminism appears to be a movement for equality that concentrates on the female gender, which doesn't seem very equal at all...........

 

Women have indeed been treated very very poorly by men over the centuries, denied her right to vote and own property, so I do understand the anger......yet I do see man hating in  parts of the modern movement that appears OTT given the social advances in the past 100 or so years...... no doubt the same may be true of the male counter party

[ToHellWithMe]

when I get older, I'm definitely going to take more control of how I dress and present myself. I want to be the type of girl who wears heels and those fishnet things. I like tight dresses, skirts, and skinny jeans because they really emphasize curves and I think they just look sexy. I would like to show off more body more when I'm older because I feels like it looks sexy and it shows that you're happy in your natural skin.

I think you are and should be free to do this. Hell, I think it should be perfectly legal for you to go naked anywhere if you so desire. Not to imply that every shopping mall or church should be obligated to let you in naked.

 

I, for one, am very influenced by the female form. Beautiful women tempt me so much that if I'm feeling down already it can make me cry, almost. Even if I'm in a good mood, I may have to protect me against your wiles by hardening my composure. That won't excuse bad behavior, of course, nor does it place any obligation on you to cover up better. However, it cuts both ways: I'm under no obligation to treat you with any cordiality.

 

I may be a creep for being so strongly influenced by female sexiness, but that's what I have to deal with. You need not concern yourself with it, unless for some reason you need to understand me.

 

I have the tendency to see women and girls who dress more revealing as "skanks" and just wanting male approval. But lately, I've been thinking they're just dressing for themselves. Kind of like putting on makeup or something.

I've thought this as well, for quite long actually. Only recently have I got this idea that maybe women want to use their looks toward different ends than for approval or benevolence. Or maybe they do it to influence other women as well as men.

 

Still, those two arguments you point out don't exclude each other. You can seek male attention for your own benefit, so that remains a legitimate reason for umbrage, if attention-seeking or utilizing your looks for it is what ticks you off. Or, it might be that I just don't understand what you mean by "for themselves". Please educate me if that seems to be the case.

 

Women should be able to wear what they what without harassment or being judged because men aren't, a feminist may argue. I don't know if men are judged, but women definitely are.

While everyone should be free to wear what they want, everyone should be free to express their opinions as well. If that opinion is judging, so be it. You are of course free to judge back, but to argue that to judge or to state certain opinions should be forbidden is to argue against freedom of speech. Sorry, but women just need to suck it up or perhaps respond in kind. If they, however, seek limitations to what may be said and what must not, they are seeking special treatment and patronizing upon themselves.

[Castiel233]

Just to lighten the mood:

 

[TheOutsider]

I don't like feminism. I find it to be way too dogmatic. The core ideals are fine, I can't really disagree with them.

I'm sure the majority of feminists are reasonable enough people (or at least I'd hope they are).

But there is just way too much shit associated with it. It, if you will forgive the comparison, looks more like a fem-superiority movement and less like a civil rights movement (at least to this unaffiliated observer). I can't support that. And if I'm mistaken, which is entirely possible, feel free to correct me.

 

I've had my fill of dogma, I'll probably never adopt a dogmatic position ever again. I can't swallow any more bullshit assertions about anything. It pisses me off just thinking about it. And the assertions I've heard by people that, rightfully or not, represent the banner of feminism, are too infuriating for me to ever consider picking up the title. Even if you convince me that isn't feminism, I'll still stick with Humanism.

 

Feminism isn't for me, neither is any other 'social justice' movement (please tell me that wasn't a landmine I just stepped on).

 

my acceptance or rejection of your (the reader) ideas are solely based on their merits, not your genitals. I can only speak for myself, but I suspect I'm not the only one with that view.

 

Rationality,

I should re-watch that bitch... Er, show.

[Jutta]

"Too bad what constitutes being a "grown up girl" on his forum involves being a submissive doormat and backing down."

Edited by Jutta, Today, 11:46 PM.

 

It's not cool to go back and edit without specifying what what the edit was or was for. You know that.

...Again, some guy decides to lay down some arbitrary rules for me in this thread. Why is it we females have to have such ladylike tact discussing an issue specifically concerning us, scrutinizing every word we write as not to offend, while certain posters can freely imply that we are man hating B*tches? Bitter? The old school fundamentalist christian attitude shines through. 

I love to read this forum. However, this is the one thing I can't stand. The same posters hijack every thread concerning anything regarding women's rights/ feminism, crowd out particular female posters. The majority of female posters leave (except for the generally anti-fem female posters) --while the remaining posters high-five each other. 

I'd love to see the replies that would ensue if there were a thread started about racial equality.

[Bhim]

 

 

"Too bad what constitutes being a "grown up girl" on his forum involves being a submissive doormat and backing down."

 

Edited by Jutta, Today, 11:46 PM.

 

It's not cool to go back and edit without specifying what what the edit was or was for. You know that.

...Again, some guy decides to lay down some arbitrary rules for me in this thread. Why is it we females have to have such ladylike tact discussing an issue specifically concerning us, scrutinizing every word we write as not to offend, while certain posters can freely imply that we are man hating B*tches? Bitter? The old school fundamentalist christian attitude shines through.

I love to read this forum. However, this is the one thing I can't stand. The same posters hijack every thread concerning anything regarding women's rights/ feminism, crowd out particular female posters. The majority of female posters leave (except for the generally anti-fem female posters) --while the remaining posters high-five each other.

I feel this is a prime example of someone dodging criticism by crying bias (e.g. racism, sexism). Duderonomy would just as freely criticize me if I did something that offended his sense of decorum. Indeed, in the Lion's Den he currently accuses me of kissing a certain Christian's ass, so to speak. Your claim that his behavior towards you is based on your sex is unfounded.

 

Essentially, you are using your perceived oppressed group membership status as a tactical advantage. Now, how many logical steps do I need to take to explain why I worry that if I say the wrong thing to you in a university or workplace setting, you will accuse me of raping you in order to keep me quiet?

 

I would appreciate if your response contains no emotional appeals whatsoever. Thank you.

[Jutta]

Next time I reply to any thread involving this topic, I will remember to bring...

[Ravenstar]

I used to be a feminist, but now I'm a Heartless Bitch.

 

The distinction is about personal responsibility. I got sick of the whining, by both women and men about equality, whose fault was what and all the bullshit included. In the west, women have the power now (and I'm grateful to the feminists of the past who fought hard for it) to live an egalitarian life. Now quit your bitching, and quit the double standards, and take care of your damn self. (get off of your ass and get a fucking job - the days of sitting at home, re-cleaning your kitchen appliances, watching soap operas and waiting for dude to pay the bills are over).

 

What pissed me off the most was women who wanted the job, or the stay-at-home position, or both - but seemed to think that men were either holding them back, or responsible to pay for it. You can't have your cake and eat it too. I could go on for HOURS about the pity party on both sides. Men, clean the fucking house… women, pay your own way. Or at least compromise, openly and honestly, about your expectations and needs, wants and other crap. (money is power - whether people want to believe it or not - if you depend on someone to pay your way - you have given away your independence and equality)

 

If you don't like sexism, then confront it when you see it… don't bat your fucking eyelashes, toss your hair and giggle, for fucks sake. (and the dissolving into tears.. just stop) Men.. STOP following your dick and thinking women can't DO for themselves, don't fall for it - it's crap. Women are FAR more capable than you know - except for that upper body strength thing - they can do pretty much anything that you can)

 

Men, STOP thinking anyone owes you sex…ever. (sorry guys - I know you aren't all like this but there are enough men who seem to believe that paying for a dinner, or even supporting someone means they get sex - basically, prostitution - if you want that kind of transaction - go to a Pro, at least that's honest) Women, STOP using sex as a tool to get something else, anything else from a man (or any partner - it's not gender exclusive).

 

Men, women are NOT responsible for your sexual feelings - no matter what. YOU ARE. 

 

Women, men don't always know when they are being offensive… try to tell them nicely, without being a ball-breaking bitch.

 

Men, if you are not sexually compatible with your wife and you can't negotiate it… get a damn divorce and find someone you DO click with… don't cheat. (women too) Stop being so fucking dishonest.

 

Here's my big one… don't let a man believe that he ever has a chance to sleep with you, if he doesn't - be up front about it. Yup - that includes the 'nice guys' who are friend-zoned.. you know who they are… and you USE them. STOP IT. Men, be up-front about your feelings… don't hang around with ulterior motives and then bitch that you got used. YOU allowed it. Yes, she's a bitch… but you knew it.

 

Men, quit bitching about supporting your own damn kids… women, don't use the kids to get back at your ex - that's a seriously NASTY thing to do.

 

Alimony is ridiculous… and no one should keep the family home, sell it, split it down the middle. Problem solved, and a lot of butthurt avoided. ADULTS should pay their own way.

 

Men… publicly stand up for anti-sexism. When you see another guy being a jackass about or to women, call him on it. Yup, sexist jokes too. And stop saying, "that's gay", or using the terms 'girly', 'sissy', 'pussy' or other feminine words as a put down.

 

Don't support media (sitcoms in particular) that portray men as dumbasses. Don't support media that portrays women as OBJECTS (Men's Health, Sports Illustrated, Victoria's Secret and Maxim, I'm looking at you)

 

This is what the whole damn thing boils down to. The opposite sex is not the enemy… ego's, power issues, dishonesty about sexuality, and outdated gender roles are.

 

 

(The problem of sexism in other places is a more complicated issue. Most third world countries are still dealing with the concept that women are not property, or still believe women are less than men.)

 

 

Radical feminists.. get over yourselves… your misandry is NOT helping.

 

Rant over.

[Jutta]

 

 

Radical feminists.. get over yourselves… your misandry is NOT helping.

 

Rant over.

 

 

Not seeing many radical feminists on this thread... not sure why this is your final conclusion unless it's to appease the mostly male posters on this thread.

 

Women have the power now in the west? Um, no. Look at the direction my country's government is going, and the typical attitudes of posters who are from the US on this site. I don't live in academia, I have a poverty level wage and work in a hospital-- the kinds of feminists who exist in universities don't live in my circles. Perhaps this excess of female power is the case for women at the top 1% income levels, or women of high visibility in the media, but not for the women I know. 

 

"Women, men don't always know when they are being offensive… try to tell them nicely, without being a ball-breaking bitch."

 

I think they know very well when they are being offensive, and they know when they are involving themselves in a gang-up to push a poster away. I find the double standard a bit obnoxious particularly on the threads on this site involving this particular topic.

 

Other than that, I agree with a lot of your points.

[Bhim]

Ravenstar, as always your comments are a breath of fresh air.  Indeed, personal responsibility is what a lot of equality issues (e.g. race, sex, socioeconomic status) can be distilled down to.  Injustices from the past are used as a means to deflect personal responsibility.

[Ravenstar]

Just threw that in because some women (and men) seem to think radical feminism is THE face of feminism. Nothing could be farther from the truth - they are just the most vocal. I grew up during the sexual revolution (early 70's) things have changed a lot since then.. the radicals of then are todays regular women, for the most part.

 

Example: My daughter can not imagine a time when women were rarely given, or promoted to, high status jobs. Female doctors, lawyers, police officers, and CEO's were almost unheard of and men did not want to work for a female boss. (shows like "That Girl", and "All in the Family" showed women who were living lives that were… radical) I, however, remember these things - I also remember being told by a Professor at University that I wasn't worth wasting his time on because I was female and I would abandon my studies to have babies. (!) I remember men being given higher wages for the same damn position (this still happens, unfortunately, but not as much as it did)

 

My kid has no idea who Emily Post was, or that women were called sluts for taking 'the pill', and not wearing a bra (or even wearing pants at work) was shocking. This is not that long ago… I still remember when there was controversy around women being able to say no to sex with their husbands. I remember when women who chose not to get married and have children were looked on as pariahs, or failures as women. (there's still some of this left… ugh, I've heard many times how child-free women are 'selfish'.)

 

But..we've come a long way. Now we have to let go of the other shit… being a traditional female had 'perks', and to be truly equal we need to give those up, or men have every right to criticize.

[Margee]

I used to be a feminist, but now I'm a Heartless Bitch.

 

The distinction is about personal responsibility. I got sick of the whining, by both women and men about equality, whose fault was what and all the bullshit included. In the west, women have the power now (and I'm grateful to the feminists of the past who fought hard for it) to live an egalitarian life. Now quit your bitching, and quit the double standards, and take care of your damn self. (get off of your ass and get a fucking job - the days of sitting at home, re-cleaning your kitchen appliances, watching soap operas and waiting for dude to pay the bills are over).

 

What pissed me off the most was women who wanted the job, or the stay-at-home position, or both - but seemed to think that men were either holding them back, or responsible to pay for it. You can't have your cake and eat it too. I could go on for HOURS about the pity party on both sides. Men, clean the fucking house… women, pay your own way. Or at least compromise, openly and honestly, about your expectations and needs, wants and other crap. (money is power - whether people want to believe it or not - if you depend on someone to pay your way - you have given away your independence and equality)

 

If you don't like sexism, then confront it when you see it… don't bat your fucking eyelashes, toss your hair and giggle, for fucks sake. (and the dissolving into tears.. just stop) Men.. STOP following your dick and thinking women can't DO for themselves, don't fall for it - it's crap. Women are FAR more capable than you know - except for that upper body strength thing - they can do pretty much anything that you can)

 

Men, STOP thinking anyone owes you sex…ever. (sorry guys - I know you aren't all like this but there are enough men who seem to believe that paying for a dinner, or even supporting someone means they get sex - basically, prostitution - if you want that kind of transaction - go to a Pro, at least that's honest) Women, STOP using sex as a tool to get something else, anything else from a man (or any partner - it's not gender exclusive).

 

Men, women are NOT responsible for your sexual feelings - no matter what. YOU ARE. 

 

Women, men don't always know when they are being offensive… try to tell them nicely, without being a ball-breaking bitch.

 

Men, if you are not sexually compatible with your wife and you can't negotiate it… get a damn divorce and find someone you DO click with… don't cheat. (women too) Stop being so fucking dishonest.

 

Here's my big one… don't let a man believe that he ever has a chance to sleep with you, if he doesn't - be up front about it. Yup - that includes the 'nice guys' who are friend-zoned.. you know who they are… and you USE them. STOP IT. Men, be up-front about your feelings… don't hang around with ulterior motives and then bitch that you got used. YOU allowed it. Yes, she's a bitch… but you knew it.

 

Men, quit bitching about supporting your own damn kids… women, don't use the kids to get back at your ex - that's a seriously NASTY thing to do.

 

Alimony is ridiculous… and no one should keep the family home, sell it, split it down the middle. Problem solved, and a lot of butthurt avoided. ADULTS should pay their own way.

 

Men… publicly stand up for anti-sexism. When you see another guy being a jackass about or to women, call him on it. Yup, sexist jokes too. And stop saying, "that's gay", or using the terms 'girly', 'sissy', 'pussy' or other feminine words as a put down.

 

Don't support media (sitcoms in particular) that portray men as dumbasses. Don't support media that portrays women as OBJECTS (Men's Health, Sports Illustrated, Victoria's Secret and Maxim, I'm looking at you)

 

This is what the whole damn thing boils down to. The opposite sex is not the enemy… ego's, power issues, dishonesty about sexuality, and outdated gender roles are.

 

 

(The problem of sexism in other places is a more complicated issue. Most third world countries are still dealing with the concept that women are not property, or still believe women are less than men.)

 

 

Radical feminists.. get over yourselves… your misandry is NOT helping.

 

Rant over.

             

 

 

You are my kind of bitch!!!