midniterider Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 " I claim that the loss of serious religion correlates with the decay of a culture, and so anyone who is interested in being part of a rising culture really should join a serious religion." Which cultures have decayed without a serious religion to hold them together? Can you name a few? No links to your page please. Keep it simple. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted October 16, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted October 16, 2015 Maybe not a troll in the classic sense, but if serious, then quite mentally disturbed in a Jim Jones sort of way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOutsider Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Maybe not a troll in the classic sense, but if serious, then quite mentally disturbed in a Jim Jones sort of way. That seems more likely to me. Although him being a Poe can't exactly be ruled out, true believer still seems more likely to me. But I tend to be a pessimist. Not that I'd be disappointed if I was wrong, quite the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted October 16, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted October 16, 2015 L. Ron Hubbard could have invented this "religion" currently under discussion. Crazy shit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffodil Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Maybe not a troll in the classic sense, but if serious, then quite mentally disturbed in a Jim Jones sort of way. That seems more likely to me. Although him being a Poe can't exactly be ruled out, true believer still seems more likely to me. But I tend to be a pessimist. Not that I'd be disappointed if I was wrong, quite the opposite. True believer in what!? I still can't figure it out! I decided to back out and lurk to see what you veterans do in the Lion's Den, and I am amazed at what you all put up with! Kudos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOutsider Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Maybe not a troll in the classic sense, but if serious, then quite mentally disturbed in a Jim Jones sort of way. That seems more likely to me. Although him being a Poe can't exactly be ruled out, true believer still seems more likely to me. But I tend to be a pessimist. Not that I'd be disappointed if I was wrong, quite the opposite. True believer in what!? I still can't figure it out! I decided to back out and lurk to see what you veterans do in the Lion's Den, and I am amazed at what you all put up with! Kudos! In whatever weird, obscure brand of Old Testament exclusive, hipster-esque Judaism he subscribes to. He has a forum that he has linked to a few times, there are some rundowns of what he believes on there... It's hardly what I'd consider agreeable. http://www.mikraite.org/ [Edited for updated quote. Also comma...] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I get wanting to believe this guy is a troll, but if he is, he has crafted one hell of a cover for this act. I have a hard time just calling troll in this case... Maybe not a troll per se, as he sounds sincere about his belief system. But coming to a forum where you will most likely find some atheists and then saying atheism is evil. That's trollish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOutsider Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I get wanting to believe this guy is a troll, but if he is, he has crafted one hell of a cover for this act. I have a hard time just calling troll in this case... Maybe not a troll per se, as he sounds sincere about his belief system. But coming to a forum where you will most likely find some atheists and then saying atheism is evil. That's trollish. True, but it seems more (though not very well) calculated then just to cause people to get upset. Making the assertion that atheism is evil, in this case, it seems, besides something he actually believes, to be more of a ploy to change the minds of those on the fence about atheism. And what better place to do that then a forum viewed by many people that are at least questioning what they believe? But that's just my take... And... Why are there..? There appear to be boobies on my paper plate... Why did I just notice that? http://www.walmart.com/ip/Dixie-8.5-Paper-Plates-160ct/20625993 Third image, you see them, right? Deer god, I think I need sleep... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffodil Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I get wanting to believe this guy is a troll, but if he is, he has crafted one hell of a cover for this act. I have a hard time just calling troll in this case... Maybe not a troll per se, as he sounds sincere about his belief system. But coming to a forum where you will most likely find some atheists and then saying atheism is evil. That's trollish. True, but it seems more (though not very well) calculated then just to cause people to get upset. Making the assertion that atheism is evil, in this case, it seems, besides something he actually believes, to be more of a ploy to change the minds of those on the fence about atheism. And what better place to do that then a forum viewed by many people that are at least questioning what they believe? But that's just my take... And... Why are there..? There appear to be boobies on my paper plate... Why did I just notice that? http://www.walmart.com/ip/Dixie-8.5-Paper-Plates-160ct/20625993 Third image, you see them, right? Deer god, I think I need sleep... Hahahaha! You are definitely a guy! I would never have noticed, but since you pointed them out, yes I see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOutsider Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 I get wanting to believe this guy is a troll, but if he is, he has crafted one hell of a cover for this act. I have a hard time just calling troll in this case... Maybe not a troll per se, as he sounds sincere about his belief system. But coming to a forum where you will most likely find some atheists and then saying atheism is evil. That's trollish. True, but it seems more (though not very well) calculated then just to cause people to get upset. Making the assertion that atheism is evil, in this case, it seems, besides something he actually believes, to be more of a ploy to change the minds of those on the fence about atheism. And what better place to do that then a forum viewed by many people that are at least questioning what they believe? But that's just my take... And... Why are there..? There appear to be boobies on my paper plate... Why did I just notice that? http://www.walmart.com/ip/Dixie-8.5-Paper-Plates-160ct/20625993 Third image, you see them, right? Deer god, I think I need sleep... Hahahaha! You are definitely a guy! I would never have noticed, but since you pointed them out, yes I see them. Part of me wants to believe that was a conscious effort to get something past the design censors. Oh I really hope that's the case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fschmidt Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 You say you accept atheists, yet you consider their beliefs to be evil. You also say that you would disown your child for a tattoo. This must be some strange new definition of the word "acceptance" that I was not previously aware of. Yes I am aware that Christians and Atheists share an intolerance of contrary beliefs. However I will tolerate any belief no matter how evil I consider it as long as it doesn't lead to evil actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fschmidt Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 You're OK with genocide, but not with tats? Seems reasonable. To you. I'll look for you in the news someday. Yes and I am particularly OK with the genocide of those with tats. However, I am sorry to disappoint you, but I probably won't make the news since I have no plans to be personally involved with genocide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fschmidt Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 My question is how can you believe in the Bible when there is no original Bible and all we have is copies of copies of copies and thousands and thousands of errors? The Bible is the world's oldest wiki and the process has produced a fine work of ethics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fschmidt Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 So your contention boils down to the following: 1) I find atheism distasteful. 2) Cultures generally become more atheistic as they move into decline. 3) We should all behave as if the correlation identified in #2 is a causal link, because I say so. I asked you for an argument justifying #3. Your failure to present one is noted. There is absolutely no way to prove a causal link in history because there is no way to conduct controlled experiments. Do you agree or disagree? If you agree, then why are you attacking me for failing to prove a causal link? If you disagree, I expect a full explanation. Assuming the above is true, how should a person go about choosing his ethics? As I said, morality is relative but that doesn't mean that morality can't be influenced by facts. I grew up with liberal atheist ethics which I now completely reject. This change came from both personal experience and studying history. As a person who greatly values culture and intellectual achievement, I couldn't possible accept ethics that correlate with cultural decline. Even without proof, I will generally prefer ethics that correlate with rising cultures. It is a pity that historians haven't paid more attention to the question of which ethics correlate with rising cultures. The only academic example that I am aware of is "Sex and Culture" by Unwin who was an anthropologist at Oxford. He asked the question of which behavioral characteristic most consistently correlates with cultural development, and he found that female premarital chastity is the answer. Since he was a liberal atheist, this quite upset him, but it fits perfectly with my natural views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha okay then... bunny... pancake, it's all I got folks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fschmidt Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 Our modern Western culture that has created smart phones, GPS, the internet, medicine and all the other things we enjoy is in decline. Instead we should emulate a culture that didn't know where the sun hides at night. Completely false. There is a lag between cultural decay and other decay. Here is the general sequence: religion -> morality -> culture -> science, engineering, politics, economics -> military The religious decay started in the mid-1800s. The moral decay started in the 1920s. The cultural decay started in the 1960s. The general decay started around 2000. I am looking forward to the military decay so that depraved Western culture will lose its worldwide influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fschmidt Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 Opening Title states the following: FORMER ATHEIST/ASK ME ANYTHING Never mind the fact that you arrogantly came on here calling me evil and then getting upset because I defended myself and proved you wrong. So as an atheist my typical day is as follows (my question will be at the end) I work Pay Taxes Pay Bills Visit My Mother-Caring for her needs and helping her out in her old age Daily Donate Money To Help The Poor I sponsor A Child In A third World Country And I Buy Food And Give Money to Homeless people On The Streets So my question is, me being an atheist, How is living my life as stated above EVIL and IMMORAL? I assume there is more to your life than the above list, so I can't judge you. And I am not saying that all Atheists are evil. I am only saying that Atheism itself is fundamentally evil because it GENERALLY leads to evil behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fschmidt Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 " I claim that the loss of serious religion correlates with the decay of a culture, and so anyone who is interested in being part of a rising culture really should join a serious religion." Which cultures have decayed without a serious religion to hold them together? Can you name a few? No links to your page please. Keep it simple. Thanks. I answered this here: http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/70015-former-atheist-ask-me-anything/?p=1071845 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fschmidt Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 Making the assertion that atheism is evil, in this case, it seems, besides something he actually believes, to be more of a ploy to change the minds of those on the fence about atheism. And what better place to do that then a forum viewed by many people that are at least questioning what they believe? Yes, exactly. And is there anything wrong with this? Shouldn't people hear multiple points of view so that they can make up their own minds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted October 17, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted October 17, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 You say you accept atheists, yet you consider their beliefs to be evil. You also say that you would disown your child for a tattoo. This must be some strange new definition of the word "acceptance" that I was not previously aware of. Yes I am aware that Christians and Atheists share an intolerance of contrary beliefs. However I will tolerate any belief no matter how evil I consider it as long as it doesn't lead to evil actions. You can't be aware of something that isn't true. You are spouting your own prejudice. Furthermore you can't show that atheist "beliefs" are evil. What the heck is an atheist belief? Bald isn't a hair color. "Off" isn't a TV station. Yes, exactly. And is there anything wrong with this? Shouldn't people hear multiple points of view so that they can make up their own minds? Your opinion is founded on nothing at all. That is why you can show nothing to support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOutsider Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Making the assertion that atheism is evil, in this case, it seems, besides something he actually believes, to be more of a ploy to change the minds of those on the fence about atheism. And what better place to do that then a forum viewed by many people that are at least questioning what they believe? Yes, exactly. And is there anything wrong with this? Shouldn't people hear multiple points of view so that they can make up their own minds? In principle, no, nothing wrong with presenting all sides of an issue. However you're not presenting anything related to the definition of atheism, as atheism. You're presenting things your father believed, and expressed, and you are claiming that is atheism. When in reality what your father believed and expressed where simply the views of a single man that didn't believe any god/s exist, regardless of how prominent his atheism was to his identity, speaking for himself alone. Some of us may or may not agree with things he thought, or said, but not because either of us are atheists. He was not presenting anything inherently atheistic, besides not believing god/s exist. Anything beyond that are his own personal views. You built a straw man of atheism, based on what your father thought. And you're doing what anyone that builds a straw man inevitably does, and burning it. Your presentation of atheism is consistently wrong, and as of yet you seem to be unwilling to correct it. The moment you try to define atheism as anything more then not believing any god/s exist, you are simply wrong. Stop being wrong, at least about this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fschmidt Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 In principle, no, nothing wrong with presenting all sides of an issue. However you're not presenting anything related to the definition of atheism, as atheism. You're presenting things your father believed, and expressed, and you are claiming that is atheism. When in reality what your father believed and expressed where simply the views of a single man that didn't believe any god/s exist, regardless of how prominent his atheism was to his identity, speaking for himself alone. Some of us may or may not agree with things he thought, or said, but not because either of us are atheists. He was not presenting anything inherently atheistic, besides not believing god/s exist. Anything beyond that are his own personal views. You built a straw man of atheism, based on what your father thought. And you're doing what anyone that builds a straw man inevitably does, and burning it. Your presentation of atheism is consistently wrong, and as of yet you seem to be unwilling to correct it. The moment you try to define atheism as anything more then not believing any god/s exist, you are simply wrong. Stop being wrong, at least about this. Actually my father was far better than modern Atheists. He did not hold the insane views that most Atheists hold today. If he had, I would have rejected Atheism far earlier when I was growing up. In fact I rejected Atheism based on the kind of Atheists one finds in forums like this one. You can define Atheism however you want, but that doesn't make your definition true. North Korea may call itself "The Democratic People's Republic of Korea" but that doesn't make it democratic or a republic. The true definition of a group is what actually describes that group, not how they choose to describe themselves. I have more about Atheism here: http://www.mikraite.org/Atheism-tp103.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOutsider Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Apologies for the misunderstanding. But my point still stands, and your point goes both ways. You don't get to define atheism either. What an atheist thinks, beyond not believing in gods, has nothing to do with the definition of atheism. Once you start talking about anything beyond the dictionary definition of atheism you are no longer talking about atheism. You start talking about an atheist, or group of atheists. We don't agree on everything. As far as the atheist umbrella is concerned, everyone is an individual undefined by those around them, the only thing that connects us, the only thing at all, as far as atheism is concerned, is that we don't believe in gods. What anyone, or group, decides to do beyond that, no longer concerns atheism. [Edit:] No matter how much anyone might want it to. You're a human male correct? Clearly we all agree on everything because we all have a penis. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fschmidt Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 Apologies for the misunderstanding. But my point still stands, and your point goes both ways. You don't get to define atheism either. What an atheist thinks, beyond not believing in gods, has nothing to do with the definition of atheism. Once you start talking about anything beyond the dictionary definition of atheism you are no longer talking about atheism. You start talking about an atheist, or group of atheists. We don't agree on everything. As far as the atheist umbrella is concerned, everyone is an individual undefined by those around them, the only thing that connects us, the only thing at all, as far as atheism is concerned, is that we don't believe in gods. What anyone, or group, decides to do beyond that, no longer concerns atheism. [Edit:] No matter how much anyone might want it to. You're a human male correct? Clearly we all agree on everything because we all have a penis. Right? Your definition of Atheism includes a much larger set than the set of those who consider themselves Atheists, so your definition is no good. My dog doesn't believe in gods. Is she an Atheist? What about Buddhists? In my link, you can see that they reject the Atheist label, but they don't believe in gods. And of course your definition of Atheism depends on the definition of a god which itself is problematic. Is a spirit a god? Is my interpretation of God a god by your definition? Your definition of Atheism is unworkable and doesn't match the set of people who actually call themselves Atheist. I can give a very simple definition of Atheism. Atheism is the set of beliefs held by at least 90% of those who call themselves Atheists. This is a definition grounded in reality. By this definition, Atheism includes liberalism, feminism, and many other evils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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