Former Atheist, Ask Me Anything

[mymistake]

 

 

On the other hand, from a strictly evolutionary point of view, the human gene pool would benefit enormously from killing the people who violate these commands.  Most of humanity today is pretty bad and the human gene pool would be better off without their genes.

 

 

 

 

And you came here to teach the evil atheists about morality.

 

 

 

 

 

But as I already mentioned, I am against the death penalty in modern times. 

 

When did God change God's law?  Is there some new book of the Old Testament that changes the law?  If you have decided God's law doesn't fit modern times what does that say about God?

[mymistake]

 

I didn't ask you for your explanation of the myth, nor for you interpretation of the moral of a faery tale.  I asked you if killing your firstborn child for no other reason that that "god said so" would be morally justifiable.  Please pay attention to the conversation you are involved in; it will make communication easier.

 

This is a meaningless question to me since I don't think God literally speaks.  If someone told me that he killed his kid because God told him to, I would think he is crazy.

 

 

So the Old Testament is wrong about all the times people saw God or spoke with God.  Good for you.  If the Old Testament is so often wrong then why do you still follow the religion of the Old Testament?

[fschmidt]

Hang on a second. 

 

Post #1  "Traditional Christianity produced the Enlightenment."

 

-Actually, it produced the Dark Ages, and considered any scientific/medical discovery to be blasphemous against the word of god. Your religion has set humanity back 1500 years in the medical and scientific fields. 

 

Post #35 "Everything that Jesus said, as recorded in the first 3 gospels, is consistent with the Old Testament.” 

 

Post#39  "I don't accept the Gospels.  I don't believe in miracles or in the resurrection.  I just think that the comments by Jesus as recorded there are very insightful.  I think the best way to understand Jesus is to spend a few months attending Orthodox synagogue.  Then you will understand who Jesus was debating with and why he was right.

 

-You're contradicting yourself, not to mention confused. You accept jesus as being consistent with the O.T. Yet you don't accept the the very gospels you claim are consistent with the O.T.? Your logic doesn't make any sense. 

 

-You don't believe in miracles or the resurrection, but you say the comments by jesus as recorded there are very insightful? The comments jesus made were about miracles and his resurrection, so how, if jesus is insightful as to miracles and his own resurrection, why do you reject it? You're not making any sense whatsoever. 

 

Post#42 "I don't want to push my beliefs here.  

 

Post#1   "After studying religion and history, I realized that Atheism is evil and that throughout history, decaying cultures lost respect for their founding religion and became atheistic which led to immorality.  I now follow the Old Testament.

 

-You again contradicted yourself by claiming your not here to push your beliefs, post#42, yet you pushed your beliefs in post #1. 

 

"I just hope that ex-christians choose another moral religion." 

 

-Atheism is not a religion. Please educate yourself as to what Atheism actually is.  

 

"That could be Judaism, Islam"

 

-Judaism and islam are the two most immoral religions we have. Please educate yourself as to what the O.T. actually teaches. In other words, read it, before you preach it. 

 

 

"I am against evil"

 

-So am I, that is why I no longer believe in god, especially the Old Testament as well as the New Testament. 

 

 

Post#79  I also don't care about beliefs as my website makes very clear, I care about actions.  

 

- Then why are you here pushing your Old Testament beliefs, as well as your beliefs about atheism?

 

"My problem with Atheism (I thought you were not here to push your beliefs on us) is the kind of actions that Atheism promotes.  What kind of actions?  Basically liberal behavior including feminism.  So promiscuity, inconsideration for others, general lack of respect, and lack of rituals which are moral exercises needed to maintain morality."

 

 

 -So now we're getting down to why you're really here. You have an agenda against what you think atheists believe and act like. You could not be more wrong. You are here to promote the Old Testament as a moral compass, when the Old Testament is anything but moral. 

 

Quoted Example (link follows example)

 

1. In Genesis 7:21-23, God drowns the entire population of the earth: men, women, children, fetuses, and animals.
2. In Exodus 12:29, God the baby-killer slaughters all Egyptian firstborn children and cattle because their king was stubborn.
3. In Numbers 16:41-49, the Israelites complain that God is killing too many of them. So, God sends a plague that kills 14,000 more of them.
4. In 1 Samuel 6:19, God kills 50,000 men for peeking into the ark of the covenant.
5. In Numbers 31:7-18, the Israelites kill all the Midianites except for the virgins, whom they are allowed to rape as spoils of war.
6. In 2 Kings 2:23-24, some kids tease the prophet Elisha, and God sends bears to dismember them.

God’s Atrocities in the Old Testament

 

 

Post#83 "The Old Testament is full of stories which make clear that one's dedication to God (representing morality) must take precedence over one's dedication to family relations.  The commandment to honor one's parents normally applies, but when it conflicts with God (morality), then God must take precedence.  This was Jesus's point. "

 

-Uhg. So the word god represents morality to you, yet the god of the bible as indicated above, is anything but moral. People have a conflict with god because he is immoral. 

 

-Quoting jesus again? For someone who claims they don't believe in the new testament or what they have to say about the jesus myth, you sure do like to keep using jesus and his person as a proof for your O.T. points of view. 

 

In conclusion, yes, welcome to this site, blah blah, I see you as nothing more than a cherry picker. All in all, you have proven yourself untrustworthy and a liar, as your posts have contradicted themselves at every turn, i.e. you're not here to push your beliefs, but you are here because your beliefs have you believing we are all evil atheists who need to be steered in another direction (that is pushing your beliefs on us). I also know that you were never truly an atheist. You may have considered yourself one at one time, or even didn't believe in god in a generic sense, but you lack any knowledge as to what atheism really is. Based on your posts, i also see that you have absolutely no knowledge as to what the Old Testament actually teaches nor the evil god it puts on display. 

 

Welcome to the Lion's den. Thank you for stopping by. 

 

Your post is long.  I will respond as I read it.

 

Christianity produced both the Dark Ages and the Enlightenment.  A bad form of Christianity, Catholicism, produced the Dark Ages.  A good form for Christianity, basically Calvinistic, produced the Enlightenment.

 

I never said the Gospels are consistent with the OT, I said that the things Jesus was quoted as saying are consistent with the OT.

 

Jesus may have performed a few tricks to impress people and this got exaggerated over time.  Anyway, I am sure you can find some exception where Jesus says something I don't agree with.  The thing is that the Gospels were written some time after Jesus's death, so are not perfectly accurate anyway.  The overall impression I get of Jesus is what I said, a very smart guy who understood the OT.

 

Being against Atheism is not pushing my beliefs.  I recognize that my religion is not ideal for many people.  I am not here to push my religion.  I am only pushing against what I see as evil.

 

Atheism most certainly is a religion, and many modern Atheists are fundamentalists.

 

Judaism and Islam are far from perfect, but still far better than Atheism.  Atheism and Satanism are the worst from my moral perspective.

 

I am not pushing beliefs at all, though I answer questions about beliefs when asked.  My concern is action.  Atheism leads to evil action.

 

Your examples of OT stuff you don't like:

 

1.  I love the story of Noah since I think we are in similar times.  Humanity today is abysmal and most of it deserves to be destroyed.

2.  Any amount of terrorism is justified to achieve freedom.  This is the point of the plagues of Egypt.  The Egyptian people are responsible for the oppression because they tolerate an oppressive regime.

3.  All most people do is bitch, they never take action.  Glad God taught them a lesson.

4.  They had been warned, so tough luck.

5.  The slaughter of the Midianites is one of my favorite Bible stories.  Evil people who can't leave decent people alone fully deserve to be slaughtered.  May the same happen to modern liberals someday.

6.  Another story I like.  Depraved cultures are dominated by ridicule.  Ridicule is evil.

 

I have never used Jesus to prove anything.  I was just asked my opinion of Jesus and answered the question.  Jesus really has nothing to do with my religion.

 

The rest of your post is just insults and lies, nothing worth responding to.

[fschmidt]

 

brussel sprouts

I don't like those... I used to secretly feed them to our schnauzer until one day he vomited them onto the living room carpet. I got in trouble for that...

 

What's your favorite color?

 

 

I am sorry that you don't appreciate the fine taste of brussel sprouts, but I am even more sorry for your schnauzer.  What you did to your poor schnauzer is analogous to what both Christians and Atheists do in regards to religion which is to force their religion on people for whom that religion is not appropriate.  Your poor schnauzer is basically carnivorous and doesn't have a favorite vegetable.  Schnauzers are not meant to eat brussel sprouts, just as some religions are not meant for certain people.

 

With regards to color, I am agnostic, having no preference.

[fschmidt]

When did God change God's law?  Is there some new book of the Old Testament that changes the law?  If you have decided God's law doesn't fit modern times what does that say about God?

 

The OT never says that most of its laws are meant to be eternal.  It does say that some specific laws, like the Ten Commandments, should be eternal.  The rest of its laws were given to the Israelites as being appropriate for that time and place.  The Hebrew word "torah" means teaching, not law.  The laws serve to teach by being applied examples of fundamental ethical principles.  These principles can be applied today resulting in new rules appropriate for modern conditions.

[fschmidt]

So the Old Testament is wrong about all the times people saw God or spoke with God.  Good for you.  If the Old Testament is so often wrong then why do you still follow the religion of the Old Testament?

 

The OT is no more factually wrong than Aesop's fables are factually wrong.  Both are books about ethics, compiled at about the same time.  Both are valid, but I prefer the OT.  In the case of the OT, there clearly are some historical sections that are meant to be broadly factually accurate, but there is no reason to assume the details in even these sections are factually accurate.  The OT is fundamentally a book about ethics and will use whatever stories are most appropriate to illustrate those ethics.

[Daffodil]

 

I smell a troll. I leave fschmidt to those with more patience than myself. Adios!

 

 

Hasta nunca

Knew it!

[mymistake]

 

So the Old Testament is wrong about all the times people saw God or spoke with God.  Good for you.  If the Old Testament is so often wrong then why do you still follow the religion of the Old Testament?

 

The OT is no more factually wrong than Aesop's fables are factually wrong.  Both are books about ethics, compiled at about the same time.  Both are valid, but I prefer the OT.  In the case of the OT, there clearly are some historical sections that are meant to be broadly factually accurate, but there is no reason to assume the details in even these sections are factually accurate.  The OT is fundamentally a book about ethics and will use whatever stories are most appropriate to illustrate those ethics.

 

 

 

If your book has instructions on the proper way to own another human being then it is not a moral book.  If it has instructions on how to take little girls captive as sex slaves when you sack a city then it is not a moral book.  If your book has instructions on how a father is to sell his daughter into slavery then it is not a moral book.  If it commands genital mutilation of children . . . again it is not a moral book.

 

Your Old Testament says that God is the same yesterday, today and forever.  That means your God is still that petty, jealous, blood-thirsty monster described in the Old Testament.

 

You need to learn about morality from us.  Atheists are not evil.  That would be Abrahamic religions.

 

 

 

 

 

The OT never says that most of its laws are meant to be eternal.  It does say that some specific laws, like the Ten Commandments, should be eternal.  The rest of its laws were given to the Israelites as being appropriate for that time and place.  The Hebrew word "torah" means teaching, not law.  The laws serve to teach by being applied examples of fundamental ethical principles.  These principles can be applied today resulting in new rules appropriate for modern conditions.

 

 

You are making it up as you go along.  When you decide what parts of the Old Testament God didn't really mean or which parts have an expiration date on them you have put yourself in God's place.  That is a good thing because your own morality keeps you from murdering people the way they did in the past under the Old Testament's directive but let's be honest.  You are not following the God of the Old Testament.  You are pretending that the religion you made up is thousands of years old.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Having read several pages of this, I conclude that it's best entitled the "About Me, fschmidt" thread.

[florduh]

I vote "troll."

[mymistake]

 

 

 

Atheism most certainly is a religion, and many modern Atheists are fundamentalists.

 

 

 

It is getting harder and harder to take you seriously.  How can no religion be a religion?  How can no fundamentals be fundamentalist?  You don't understand what these words mean.  Nontheism is atheism.

 

 

 

Atheism and Satanism are the worst from my moral perspective.

 

Bold assertions you cannot explain and cannot support.  Perhaps your moral perspective is wrong.

 

 

 

 Atheism leads to evil action.

 

Show me the evidence.  (You can't!)  So why do you assert this when there is no evidence?  Isn't bearing false witness a violation of God's commandment?  You have been bearing false witness against atheists this whole thread and also on your blog.  

 

 

 

 

Evil people who can't leave decent people alone fully deserve to be slaughtered.  May the same happen to modern liberals someday.

 

You are starting to look like a troll.

 

If you lust for the death of millions you are not a moral teacher.

[Deidre]

I have a question, OP. This might have been answered already, but why do you delineate between the God of the OT, and of the NT? Or so it seems...

Just wondering. Who is the God of the NT, in your opinion?

[fschmidt]

I vote "troll."

 

I forgot to mention, Atheists are the world's most intolerant people, totally intolerant of both free speech and religious freedom.  That is is why they are so quick to ban opposing viewpoints.

[sdelsolray]

This one is just another theist nutter.  He's full of himself and he's full of shit.  Not worth the time.

[fschmidt]

I have a question, OP. This might have been answered already, but why do you delineate between the God of the OT, and of the NT? Or so it seems...

Just wondering. Who is the God of the NT, in your opinion?

 

I don't think I compared the god of the OT and NT.  But the OT and NT are quite different.  The OT is about ethics and the NT is mostly about faith.  The god of the NT is defined to include Christ while the god of the OT is undefined.  A good book about the OT and how it compares to the NT is:

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0096BCVPG/

[TheOutsider]

I vote "troll."

 

If he is a troll, he's a god level troll, a man after Loki's own heart. This doesn't seem to be just someone spewing bullshit they don't believe, he's gone through a lot of trouble to establish a history on his own forum, and he seems to have found people that actually believe what he claims to. If he is a troll, that's some damn fine work and I cannot help but applaud. Unfortunately, that's an unlikely scenario.

[mymistake]

 

I vote "troll."

 

I forgot to mention, Atheists are the world's most intolerant people, totally intolerant of both free speech and religious freedom.  That is is why they are so quick to ban opposing viewpoints.

 

 

 

You do realize this isn't a specifically atheist forum, right?  This website is for ex-Christians but we tolerate all kinds of people as long as they behave themselves.  You haven't been banned or censored.  What happened is that people read what you wrote and drew a conclusion from that.  Maybe if you act better you will be perceived better.

[disillusioned]

Ok, I will bite on this.
 
From the OP:
 

I was raised as an Atheist and was an Atheist for most of my life. After studying religion and history, I realized that Atheism is evil and that throughout history, decaying cultures lost respect for their founding religion and became atheistic which led to immorality. I now follow the Old Testament.

This raises a number of questions. You say that you realized Atheism is evil, and that it leads to immorality. What, precisely, do you mean when you say "evil"? What, precisely, are you speaking about when you say "immorality"?

 

Once you have defined "evil" and "immorality", please present an argument showing that your assertion regarding decaying cultures is correct. A few specific examples of such cultures which embraced atheism and subsequently became "immoral" would probably be helpful, but please keep in mind that you need to show not only that such cultures have existed, but also that it was their embrace of atheism which led to their immorality. I think this will be no small task.

 

As for the Old Testament, I can't even. Just, please. Don't.

[mymistake]

 

 

The OT is about ethics . . . 

 

 

 

No, the God of the OT is about obedience regardless of ethics.  When God commands his people do something unethical they had better do it or else God will get angry.  I would be happy to provide multiple examples if that will help.

[TheOutsider]

 

I vote "troll."

 

I forgot to mention, Atheists are the world's most intolerant people, totally intolerant of both free speech and religious freedom.  That is is why they are so quick to ban opposing viewpoints.

 

 

Not intolerant, just not tolerant of ideas we, personally, find repulsive. Or I guess I should say "I". You are free to believe or say whatever you want. However you're not exempt from criticism. Your ideas aren't sacred, and if anyone finds them to be worth opposing, they will be opposed. But never silenced, unless you decide to silence yourself, censorship is one thing you won't find here, unless you censor yourself.

 

Now, how exactly is that me being opposed to free speech? Or religious freedom?

[fschmidt]

You do realize this isn't a specifically atheist forum, right?

 

I was hoping that this wouldn't be an atheist forum, but apparently it is.  I mean where are the ex-christians who are any other religion besides Atheist?

[fschmidt]

This raises a number of questions. You say that you realized Atheism is evil, and that it leads to immorality. What, precisely, do you mean when you say "evil"? What, precisely, are you speaking about when you say "immorality"?

 

Once you have defined "evil" and "immorality", please present an argument showing that your assertion regarding decaying cultures is correct. A few specific examples of such cultures which embraced atheism and subsequently became "immoral" would probably be helpful, but please keep in mind that you need to show not only that such cultures have existed, but also that it was their embrace of atheism which led to their immorality. I think this will be no small task.

 

As for the Old Testament, I can't even. Just, please. Don't.

 

I discussed evil/morality here:

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/70015-former-atheist-ask-me-anything/?p=1071811

 

Atheism is one form of losing respect for the founding religion of a culture, which is what is common to decaying cultures.  Examples include Athens, Rome, Islamic Persia (which questioned God and had liberalism and feminism during the Abbasid caliphate).  For more, see:

 

http://www.mikraite.org/file/n16/fate.pdf

 

Someone paraphrasing Godel's theorem in his signature should have a little more humility.  Godel's theorem is an excellent expression of the limits of human reason.

[Deidre]

 

You do realize this isn't a specifically atheist forum, right?

 

I was hoping that this wouldn't be an atheist forum, but apparently it is.  I mean where are the ex-christians who are any other religion besides Atheist?

 

There's a spirituality section here where ex Christians can talk about other faiths/beliefs.

[fschmidt]

Not intolerant, just not tolerant of ideas we, personally, find repulsive. Or I guess I should say "I". You are free to believe or say whatever you want. However you're not exempt from criticism. Your ideas aren't sacred, and if anyone finds them to be worth opposing, they will be opposed. But never silenced, unless you decide to silence yourself, censorship is one thing you won't find here, unless you censor yourself.

 

Now, how exactly is that me being opposed to free speech? Or religious freedom?

 

I would be absolutely shocked if I am not banned within a week from this forum.  I have been banned from 99% of the forums where I have posted.  Members of modern culture absolutely cannot tolerate someone who can defend an unpopular viewpoint.  Free speech only exists on reactionary forums.  Only reactionaries respect free speech.  And of all the groups, atheists are the fastest to ban.

[♦ ficino ♦]

 The OT is about ethics

Parts of it, as are parts of the NT. Much of the OT is about defining a group by distinguishing it from an Other. VERY many of the stakes of the dividing fence are taboos. Avoiding defilement, incl. ritual defilement, is a major focus of the Torah, as is achieving ritual purity. Those are not ethical concepts.