What Should We Expect During A Time Of Grace

[Guest end3]

Well, so let's say that God gave the people the rules to live cleanly....which couldn't be successfully accomplished. So then comes Jesus and now a time of Grace.

 

So given that none are omniscient and also that humanity could not follow the law for weakness, what would Grace look like other than silence? In other words, why would God try to re-explain or do anything other than he did to save humanity.

 

Giving the Bible and Jesus, and then silence seems rather straightforward. I mean, is God supposed to explain it again with hopes that humanity will be able to live clean lives?

 

To me, this answers the silence and simultaneously separates the sheeples and goats. Btw, you are all goats. I "kid" of course. Get it, kid, kid goats?? Lol.

[mwc]

     Or god, not a human that says he's god, could just show up and actually talk.  You know, instead of being an angry mountain or burning bush that people fear as a god.  And this god could send out a single, universal, coherent message to everyone instead of whatever the current incoherent method is called.  And on and on and on.

 

     But, yeah, silence.  "Sounds" like a good plan too.

 

          mwc

[rjn]

Problem is, this can be applied to any other religion as well. Really weak argument, but some of you pious people like "arguments" like this one.

 

"Oh, but this lack of evidence is in fact EVIDENCE. If you only had the eyes to see it!".

 

Lame.

[rjn]

And btw... How could Jesus have saved all of humanity when his alleged sacrifice took place in a geographically and temporally limited spot? Most of the World was ignorant of Jesus until the Renaissance.

[bornagainathiest]

Well, so let's say that God gave the people the rules to live cleanly....which couldn't be successfully accomplished. So then comes Jesus and now a time of Grace.

 

So given that none are omniscient and also that humanity could not follow the law for weakness, what would Grace look like other than silence? In other words, why would God try to re-explain or do anything other than he did to save humanity.

 

Giving the Bible and Jesus, and then silence seems rather straightforward. I mean, is God supposed to explain it again with hopes that humanity will be able to live clean lives?

 

To me, this answers the silence and simultaneously separates the sheeples and goats. Btw, you are all goats. I "kid" of course. Get it, kid, kid goats?? Lol.

 

And for those (billions of) people who lived and died before God's rules and God's grace were made known to them by Christian missionaries?

 

(Good point btw, rjn.)

 

These people are God's objects of wrath, prepared in advance for destruction, as per Romans 9?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Well, so let's say that God gave the people the rules to live cleanly....which couldn't be successfully accomplished. So then comes Jesus and now a time of Grace.

 

So given that none are omniscient and also that humanity could not follow the law for weakness, what would Grace look like other than silence? In other words, why would God try to re-explain or do anything other than he did to save humanity.

 

Giving the Bible and Jesus, and then silence seems rather straightforward. I mean, is God supposed to explain it again with hopes that humanity will be able to live clean lives?

 

To me, this answers the silence and simultaneously separates the sheeples and goats. Btw, you are all goats. I "kid" of course. Get it, kid, kid goats?? Lol.

god couldn't even be bothered to explain the difference between good and evil to Adam and Eve in the garden, End3, which is precisely why "grace" and "jesus" became necessary (in god's opinion).  his silence served a specific purpose: to sell us all into "sin" so that he could buy us all back as slaves.

[Fweethawt]

Well, so let's say that God gave the people the rules to live cleanly....which couldn't be successfully accomplished.

You HAD to have caught this as you typed it.

 

You destroyed your own argument within your first two sentences.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Problem is, this can be applied to any other religion as well. Really weak argument, but some of you pious people like "arguments" like this one.

 

"Oh, but this lack of evidence is in fact EVIDENCE. If you only had the eyes to see it!".

 

Lame.

Agreed. "Let's say X were the case. Then it just might turn out that Y were the case. Therefore the doctrines of ... [fill in blank]."

[Margee]

 

Well, so let's say that God gave the people the rules to live cleanly....which couldn't be successfully accomplished. So then comes Jesus and now a time of Grace.

 

 

god couldn't even be bothered to explain the difference between good and evil to Adam and Eve in the garden, End3, which is precisely why "grace" and "jesus" became necessary (in god's opinion).  his silence served a specific purpose: to sell us all into "sin" so that he could buy us all back as slaves.

 

This^^^ Professor. 100%

 

The whole game plan of the so called (narcissistic) god was to use the silent treatment, lack of proper communication and explaining the situation to his creation, ignoring them, gaslighting them, (making it out to be our fault) and not being accountable to his creation for his actions..... all for the purpose of 'his' big ego, ''His Majesty''..... to gain power and control. Associating with such 'spiritual' entities, material organizations, or people like this, only leads you to being their slave. They get to 'call the shots' on their terms. In other words, do what they want or you're out of their lives. (Example: god would send his creation to hell for resisting and rejecting his abusive strategies) There is always a form of punishment with Narcissism.

 

 Any type of behavior like this takes a strong person to walk away and that includes from a emotionally abusive god.

 

These are the strategies of the supposedly 'powerful'.

 Very weak and cowardly indeed.....

[Geezer]

Grace, just like heaven & hell, exists only in the minds of believers & each believer understands it differently. If every believer interpreted Ephesians 2: 8-10 literally & ignored all the other scripture that says something different Xianity would be a very different religion.

[florduh]

According to the story we must conclude that God gave up on humans following Mosaic law when he resorted to sacrificing Jesus. Being god, he must have had that plan from the start, knowing that his rules were impossible to keep when left to the flawed humans he created; we couldn't even follow simple directions in Eden!

 

Kinda gets your goat, no?

[Fweethawt]

No, Florduh...

 

That's Grace™!

[sdelsolray]

Well, so let's say that God gave the people the rules to live cleanly....which couldn't be successfully accomplished. So then comes Jesus and now a time of Grace.

 

So given that none are omniscient and also that humanity could not follow the law for weakness, what would Grace look like other than silence? In other words, why would God try to re-explain or do anything other than he did to save humanity.

 

Giving the Bible and Jesus, and then silence seems rather straightforward. I mean, is God supposed to explain it again with hopes that humanity will be able to live clean lives?

 

To me, this answers the silence and simultaneously separates the sheeples and goats. Btw, you are all goats. I "kid" of course. Get it, kid, kid goats?? Lol.

 

 

Your imaginary god has demonstrated incompetence.

[bornagainathiest]

 

Well, so let's say that God gave the people the rules to live cleanly....which couldn't be successfully accomplished. So then comes Jesus and now a time of Grace.

 

So given that none are omniscient and also that humanity could not follow the law for weakness, what would Grace look like other than silence? In other words, why would God try to re-explain or do anything other than he did to save humanity.

 

Giving the Bible and Jesus, and then silence seems rather straightforward. I mean, is God supposed to explain it again with hopes that humanity will be able to live clean lives?

 

To me, this answers the silence and simultaneously separates the sheeples and goats. Btw, you are all goats. I "kid" of course. Get it, kid, kid goats?? Lol.

god couldn't even be bothered to explain the difference between good and evil to Adam and Eve in the garden, End3, which is precisely why "grace" and "jesus" became necessary (in god's opinion).  his silence served a specific purpose: to sell us all into "sin" so that he could buy us all back as slaves.

 

 

Not exactly, Prof.

 

Since God is all knowing and unchanging it's impossible for him to be 'not bothered' about anything.

He's always fully known and been fully aware of everything.  So there's never any 'can't be bothered' on his part.  

Everything God does is a perfectly and flawlessly thought out, deliberately planned action on his part.

 

So He planned to keep Adam and Eve in innocent ignorance of what Good and Evil are.

 

He planned to keep them in innocent ignorance of what Death is.

 

He planned to keep them in innocent ignorance of how the fate of all creation was linked to their uninformed choice about the tree.

 

He planned to make the tree attractive, just like the others Adam and Eve had eaten from.

 

He planned to keep them in innocent ignorance of the serpent.

 

He planned to keep them in innocent ignorance of his curses.

 

He planned to keep them in innocent ignorance of their exile from Eden.

.

.

.

And He planned to keep his silence about all these things.

 

Entrapment, much?

[Margee]

 

 

Well, so let's say that God gave the people the rules to live cleanly....which couldn't be successfully accomplished. So then comes Jesus and now a time of Grace.

 

So given that none are omniscient and also that humanity could not follow the law for weakness, what would Grace look like other than silence? In other words, why would God try to re-explain or do anything other than he did to save humanity.

 

Giving the Bible and Jesus, and then silence seems rather straightforward. I mean, is God supposed to explain it again with hopes that humanity will be able to live clean lives?

 

To me, this answers the silence and simultaneously separates the sheeples and goats. Btw, you are all goats. I "kid" of course. Get it, kid, kid goats?? Lol.

god couldn't even be bothered to explain the difference between good and evil to Adam and Eve in the garden, End3, which is precisely why "grace" and "jesus" became necessary (in god's opinion).  his silence served a specific purpose: to sell us all into "sin" so that he could buy us all back as slaves.

 

 

Not exactly, Prof.

 

Since God is all knowing and unchanging it's impossible for him to be 'not bothered' about anything.

He's always fully known and been fully aware of everything.  So there's never any 'can't be bothered' on his part.  

Everything God does is a perfectly and flawlessly thought, deliberately planned action on his part.

 

So He planned to keep Adam and Eve in innocent ignorance of what Good and Evil are.

 

He planned to keep them in innocent ignorance of what Death is.

 

He planned to keep them in innocent ignorance of how the fate of all creation was linked to their uninformed choice about the tree.

 

He planned to make the tree attractive, just like the others Adam and Eve had eaten from.

 

He planned to keep them in innocent ignorance of the serpent.

 

He planned to keep them in innocent ignorance of his curses.

 

He planned to keep them in innocent ignorance of their exile from Eden.

.

.

.

And He planned to keep his silence about all these things.

 

Entrapment, much?

 

 

Planned. You are so right on BA, which convinces me even more that our all powerful 'god' is a  narcissistic sociopath. Spooky.

 

So where is the grace in all of this???

 

None. Zero.

 

Unless, of course if you want to worship a narcissistic sociopath and accept his 'planning' and the blood sacrifice of his only son.....

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

 

Well, so let's say that God gave the people the rules to live cleanly....which couldn't be successfully accomplished. So then comes Jesus and now a time of Grace.

 

So given that none are omniscient and also that humanity could not follow the law for weakness, what would Grace look like other than silence? In other words, why would God try to re-explain or do anything other than he did to save humanity.

 

Giving the Bible and Jesus, and then silence seems rather straightforward. I mean, is God supposed to explain it again with hopes that humanity will be able to live clean lives?

 

To me, this answers the silence and simultaneously separates the sheeples and goats. Btw, you are all goats. I "kid" of course. Get it, kid, kid goats?? Lol.

god couldn't even be bothered to explain the difference between good and evil to Adam and Eve in the garden, End3, which is precisely why "grace" and "jesus" became necessary (in god's opinion).  his silence served a specific purpose: to sell us all into "sin" so that he could buy us all back as slaves.

 

 

Not exactly, Prof.

 

Since God is all knowing and unchanging it's impossible for him to be 'not bothered' about anything.

He's always fully known and been fully aware of everything.  So there's never any 'can't be bothered' on his part.  

Everything God does is a perfectly and flawlessly thought, deliberately planned action on his part.

 

So He planned to keep Adam and Eve in innocent ignorance of what Good and Evil are.

 

He planned to keep them in innocent ignorance of what Death is.

 

He planned to keep them in innocent ignorance of how the fate of all creation was linked to their uninformed choice about the tree.

 

He planned to make the tree attractive, just like the others Adam and Eve had eaten from.

 

He planned to keep them in innocent ignorance of the serpent.

 

He planned to keep them in innocent ignorance of his curses.

 

He planned to keep them in innocent ignorance of their exile from Eden.

.

.

.

And He planned to keep his silence about all these things.

 

Entrapment, much?

 

Ergo the conclusion:  his silence served a specific purpose: to sell us all into "sin" so that he could buy us all back as slaves.

[Guest end3]

Not even Jesus said he wished to be equal to God if I am remembering correctly.

 

We have heard the old adage....you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

 

Even in all of our knowledge we don't hold a thimbleful with regard to the whole. Grace would be acknowledgement by men that this is true....not making excuses for it being the truth.

 

And let's not forget our own practical behaviors with our children and friends. At some point, regardless of the repeated explanations, we just get a little more quiet and provide and love them anyway. Can we say Holy Spirit?

 

Get a grip people...you're like Adam and Eve....in the beginning.

[florduh]

Not even Jesus said he wished to be equal to God if I am remembering correctly.

 

He said that he and the father were one. Couldn't be any more equal.

[Guest end3]

 

Not even Jesus said he wished to be equal to God if I am remembering correctly.

 

He said that he and the father were one. Couldn't be any more equal.

.

 

Key word wished/desired.

[bornagainathiest]

Not even Jesus said he wished to be equal to God if I am remembering correctly.

 

We have heard the old adage....you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

 

Even in all of our knowledge we don't hold a thimbleful with regard to the whole.

 

I agree, End.

What we know isn't much.  But the flaw in your argument is this.  You argue that unless we have total and complete knowledge (100%) we are nowhere.  This is clearly false.  We know enough about the origin of the universe, the origin of life on Earth and the origin of humans to rule out the possibility that Genesis is anything like history.  It's not even close.  And we can safely say this with just a fraction of 1% of the total sum of knowledge of everything.  No need for 100% certainty.  

 

Grace would be acknowledgement by men that this is true....not making excuses for it being the truth.

 

But Genesis isn't true.  Even the little we do know about our origins is enough for us to know this.

There are just too many conditions that your 'truth' needs to satisfy for it to be history.  There are just too many examples of where science has ruled out what is written in Genesis for scripture to be history.

 

And let's not forget our own practical behaviors with our children and friends. At some point, regardless of the repeated explanations, we just get a little more quiet and provide and love them anyway. Can we say Holy Spirit?

 

Get a grip people...you're like Adam and Eve....in the beginning.

 

No.  YOU get a grip.

 

That grip is called... accepting the objective scientific evidence that rules out Genesis as history.

.

.

.

Oh wait...

 

...you can't do that can you?  

 

In your reality, objectivity is impossible.  So there's no such thing as objective scientific evidence.  Silly me for forgetting!   

[Guest Furball]

1. In other words, why would God try to re-explain or do anything other than he did to save humanity.

 

2. Giving the Bible and Jesus, and then silence seems rather straightforward. I mean, is God supposed to explain it again with hopes that humanity will be able to live clean lives?

 

 

1. Because apparently god and no one else got it right the first time, hence the over 41,000 christian denominations and a book containing over 1001 contradictions, over 194 different ways to be saved, and numerous failed prophesies. 

 

2. This should have been posted on a christian website. In the last year I have seen numerous statistics showing christians to be the #1 committers of abortion, adultery and pornography use. Let's not forget the fact that christianity is the #1 religion of all the world's prisoners while the so called godless atheists take up less than 1%. 

 

The fact is, atheists are more moral and lead cleaner lives than christians. No god-jesus-bible needed.

 

Atheists Supply Less Than 1% Of Prison Populations It's suprising how many people say to m

 

[Guest Furball]

 

his silence served a specific purpose: to sell us all into "sin" so that he could buy us all back as slaves.

Damn that was a hard hitting statement.

[rjn]

We're like Adam and Eve? First off, do you actually believe Genesis to be anything else than a fancy tale?

 

Secondly, no, we're not at all like them. They had full knowledge of God, whereas we only have the claims of people like you.

[sdelsolray]

...

Even in all of our knowledge we don't hold a thimbleful with regard to the whole.

 

...

 

So, you know what it is humans do not know and are further able to quantify that lack of knowledge and compare to what humans do know.  You're amazing.  No one else can do that.

 

...

Grace would be acknowledgement by men that this is true....not making excuses for it being the truth.

...

 

Here is yet another example of you defining/using a word differently than anyone else.  According to how anyone else defines Christian "grace", it is not something humans can do, it is only generated by the imaginary sky fairies.

 

Leaving that aside, please explain the connection between (i) acknowledging humans know much much less that humans know and (ii) grace.  Before you do that, study the word "non-sequitur".

 

 

 

 

[sdelsolray]

 

1. In other words, why would God try to re-explain or do anything other than he did to save humanity.

 

2. Giving the Bible and Jesus, and then silence seems rather straightforward. I mean, is God supposed to explain it again with hopes that humanity will be able to live clean lives?

 

 

1. Because apparently god and no one else got it right the first time, hence the over 41,000 christian denominations and a book containing over 1001 contradictions, over 194 different ways to be saved, and numerous failed prophesies. 

 

2. This should have been posted on a christian website. In the last year I have seen numerous statistics showing christians to be the #1 committers of abortion, adultery and pornography use. Let's not forget the fact that christianity is the #1 religion of all the world's prisoners while the so called godless atheists take up less than 1%. 

 

The fact is, atheists are more moral and lead cleaner lives than christians. No god-jesus-bible needed.

 

Atheists Supply Less Than 1% Of Prison Populations It's suprising how many people say to m

 

(chart snipped)

 

 

 

Well, the evidence strongly indicates that theists tend to project their own emotions and personality traits upon their imaginary gods, either individually or in groups.  Here, End3 is doing just that.  His god wouldn't do anything more because End3 wouldn't do anything more.