What Should We Expect During A Time Of Grace

[mymistake]

 

 

 

 

.Each of you has bolstered your egos through science so much that you can't realize you have a bolstered ego. 

 

Or how about, each of you has studied and have gained intelligence.........

 

Intelligence is relative. "I have intelligence so I am right". Let me go pull the verse. I shall return.

 

I already know the verses you are going to pull End....... Doesn't mean diddly coming from the 2000 year old manual that was written by man....

 

Your behavior is very much like Matthew 11. Y'all have rejected God for "intelligence"....i.e. ego. JUST like a 2000 year old manual.

 

So the question is, how is this NOT true?

 

And there is nothing wrong with intelligence. It's the ego that seems to make the difference. Intelligence can be a wonderful thing.

 

 

 

The sad part is that you think you are humble and in your opinion we have the ego problems.  So much irony, but also sad.

[Guest end3]

Intelligent people can arrive at differing conclusions, but adopting Christianity is typically an emotional decision, not an intellectual one. If faith is the cornerstone of a belief then there is no place for logical argument of facts since facts and evidence are irrelevant from a faith perspective. Facts and evidence can mount an argument against a religion of faith, but the religious can only honestly claim "I believe because I want to."

Ha, but the intelligent make the "jump" from objective to encompassing ALL understanding... That's the amazing part.

 

The next question obviously in my mind....and I realize I'm an ass...it's my forte, but the next question is how do we explain illogical in the human realm.

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

 

 

.Each of you has bolstered your egos through science so much that you can't realize you have a bolstered ego. 

 

Or how about, each of you has studied and have gained intelligence.........

 

Intelligence is relative. "I have intelligence so I am right". Let me go pull the verse. I shall return.

 

I already know the verses you are going to pull End....... Doesn't mean diddly coming from the 2000 year old manual that was written by man....

 

Your behavior is very much like Matthew 11. Y'all have rejected God for "intelligence"....i.e. ego. JUST like a 2000 year old manual.

 

So the question is, how is this NOT true?

 

It isn't true End, because you must first demonstrate that the God of the Bible exists.

 

If you cannot do that, then you have no basis for claiming that we have all rejected this God.

 

Your faith in this God is not a worked demonstration of His existence.

 

All your faith does is demonstrate that you believe He exists.

 

It doesn't demonstrate that He actually exists.

 

Demonstrate that He exists (by evidence, not faith) and then you might have a case for claiming that we have rejected Him.

 

And there is nothing wrong with intelligence. It's the ego that seems to make the difference. Intelligence can be a wonderful thing.

 

 

Btw, End.

 

I have a simple question for you.

 

Do you believe that the Bible is totally, absolutely, flawlessly, infallibly and perfectly 100% true?

[bornagainathiest]

 

Intelligent people can arrive at differing conclusions, but adopting Christianity is typically an emotional decision, not an intellectual one. If faith is the cornerstone of a belief then there is no place for logical argument of facts since facts and evidence are irrelevant from a faith perspective. Facts and evidence can mount an argument against a religion of faith, but the religious can only honestly claim "I believe because I want to."

Ha, but the intelligent make the "jump" from objective to encompassing ALL understanding... That's the amazing part.

 

Does that happen in this forum, End?  Where?  Who does it?  What threads?

 

Support your sweeping claim with worked examples please.

 

The next question obviously in my mind....and I realize I'm an ass...it's my forte, but the next question is how do we explain illogical in the human realm.

 

[mymistake]

 

 

Ha, but the intelligent make the "jump" from objective to encompassing ALL understanding... That's the amazing part.

 

 

 

 

I just want to point out that "the intelligent" doesn't really work that way.  There are plenty of intelligent people who were indoctrinated from childhood so they believe religion regardless of their intelligence.  And there are people who are average and even below average who were not indoctrinated so they don't believe religion.  It's not about intelligence.

 

Christians are the ones who claim something that encompasses all understanding.  That would be your God which whom you have that personal relationship.

[florduh]

Ha, but the intelligent make the "jump" from objective to encompassing ALL understanding... That's the amazing part.

 

Only religion claims ALL understanding. It is an empty claim because questions that are as yet unanswered cannot be settled by the invocation of magic.

 

For valid answers about our reality we must do the work and not stop at, "There is hot lava running into our village because the Volcano God is angry." We can't accept as helpful or truthful the diagnosis that a person is having seizures because he is possessed by a demon. Do the work and find the real answers, don't settle for unfounded guesses by the ancients who were even less informed than we are today. Science, while always proclaiming to not have all the answers, still makes progress in understanding our world, our universe and the human brain. The longer we live and learn, the more we can see the folly of embracing mythology and allegory as fact. Some just refuse to see and are more comfortable believing they are smarter than scientists, engineers, physicists and medical doctors because they hold dear the illusion that the whole of the Truth lies within their religious belief.

[rjn]

"My religious scripture tells me that everyone who questions it are deluded, therefore it is true. Thanks for being so insightful, Book."

[Guest end3]

What I am trying to say is that it's a true statement that many here have abandoned Christianity for intellectualism.....as the Bible states. It doesn't really matter the reasons behind the switch....the statement is still true. The truly wise, I think, would forego the switch UNTIL we had more information....especially in the area of the brain.

 

Everyone keeps saying "NO EVIDENCE!" I get that, but the Bible is not very much about objective evidence....more, much more spiritual.

 

And reasonably sure we don't have much to go on matching spiritual to objective.

 

So yeah, I think many of you have quit the race too soon.

[StillLooking]

What I am trying to say is that it's a true statement that many here have abandoned Christianity for intellectualism.....as the Bible states. It doesn't really matter the reasons behind the switch....the statement is still true. The truly wise, I think, would forego the switch UNTIL we had more information....especially in the area of the brain.

 

Everyone keeps saying "NO EVIDENCE!" I get that, but the Bible is not very much about objective evidence....more, much more spiritual.

 

And reasonably sure we don't have much to go on matching spiritual to objective.

 

So yeah, I think many of you have quit the race too soon.

End3, so are you saying you are the truly wise one?

[Guest Furball]

But if the bible can be *PROVEN* false, then why keep believing in it? I am not arguing, I am just trying to understand the logic. It's not just that the there is no evidence, it's that we can actually prove the bible to be a book of lies based on actual history that can be fact checked. Star Wars isn't about objective evidence either, but I have read people getting spiritual beliefs from the "use the force" philosophy. Does that make it true then? The bible makes claims that can be tested against factual history, and when factual history proves the bible wrong, then the bible is wrong....period. People are free to believe whatever they want to believe. But, if we know for certain that what the person believes in is factually wrong and can be proven false, and we show this person the facts yet they continue to stick to their beliefs, doesn't that make the person choosing to be willfully ignorant? I just don't understand that line of thinking. 

 

If jesus and his words and the bible as well are debunked, and they have been, then so is the spirituality of his words and rest of the bible as well. 

[bornagainathiest]

What I am trying to say is that it's a true statement that many here have abandoned Christianity for intellectualism.....as the Bible states. It doesn't really matter the reasons behind the switch....the statement is still true. The truly wise, I think, would forego the switch UNTIL we had more information....especially in the area of the brain.

 

Everyone keeps saying "NO EVIDENCE!" I get that, but the Bible is not very much about objective evidence....more, much more spiritual.

 

And reasonably sure we don't have much to go on matching spiritual to objective.

 

So yeah, I think many of you have quit the race too soon.

 

End,

 

Whatever spirituality you believe is to be had from that Bible still depends on it being... TRUE.

 

'True' as in an accurate and real account of actual historical events and people.  

 

As true as other eye-witness accounts (ancient and modern) that are considered to be accurate reportage of historical events and people.

 

So I must repeat my simple question to you.

 

"Do you believe that the Bible is totally, absolutely, flawlessly, infallibly and perfectly 100% true?"

 

Please do me the courtesy of answering this question.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[florduh]

...many here have abandoned Christianity for intellectualism...

 

Most who leave Christianity do so because the beliefs one must take on faith are in conflict with what we know about the universe. It doesn't take an intellectual snob to realize, "Hey, this stuff about talking snakes, failed prophecies, conflicting messages and everything else doesn't make sense!"

 

Knowledge is the enemy of religious faith to the honest, thinking man. As anyone can read in the testimonies here, abandoning one's familiar beliefs is painful for most, often devastating. Leaving behind the superstitions after seeing the disconnect with observable reality is not a choice but rather an inevitability. We fight to hang on to our belief ingrained in us that the grass is purple, but you see it's green once you just look at it; all the faith you can muster won't make you believe it's purple once you've seen for yourself.

[bornagainathiest]

What I am trying to say is that it's a true statement that many here have abandoned Christianity for intellectualism.....as the Bible states. It doesn't really matter the reasons behind the switch....the statement is still true. The truly wise, I think, would forego the switch UNTIL we had more information....especially in the area of the brain.

 

There's a major problem with your above statement, End.

It comes when we compare it to what you've written in past threads about the validity of information.  Specifically, the validity of information that is considered to be objective scientific evidence.  You've made it quite clear that you have no confidence in the notion of objectivity itself.  You've even gone so far as to say that objectivity is a sub-set of subjectivity.  You reject objectivity from get go and maintain that objectivity itself is actually subjective.  So, given your stonewall rejection of objectivity, how can you possibly say that we shouldn't have abandoned Christianity until we had more [objective] information?

 

By your own standards of objectivity rejection, we will never have more [objective] information about the human brain.

 

Because, for you, there's no such thing as truly objective information about anything...let alone the human brain.

 

You will always rule that no information is ever truly objective.

 

Isn't that so?

 

 

Everyone keeps saying "NO EVIDENCE!" I get that, but the Bible is not very much about objective evidence....more, much more spiritual.

And reasonably sure we don't have much to go on matching spiritual to objective.

 

So yeah, I think many of you have quit the race too soon.

[Margee]

 

...many here have abandoned Christianity for intellectualism...

Most who leave Christianity do so because the beliefs one must take on faith are in conflict with what we know about the universe. It doesn't take an intellectual snob to realize, "Hey, this stuff about talking snakes, failed prophecies, conflicting messages and everything else doesn't make sense!"

 

Knowledge is the enemy of religious faith to the honest, thinking man. As anyone can read in the testimonies here, abandoning one's familiar beliefs is painful for most, often devastating. Leaving behind the superstitions after seeing the disconnect with observable reality is not a choice but rather an inevitability. We fight to hang on to our belief ingrained in us that the grass is purple, but you see it's green once you just look at it; all the faith you can muster won't make you believe it's purple once you've seen for yourself.

 

This ^ Thanks florduh.

 

I wonder if end has ever watched the history of the earth and the billions of years for it to reach the stage that its in now? Do you watch these type of documentaries end? Or do you think someone just fabricated the whole story? At least archaeologists have proof of the evolution of the earth and how the earth formed. Please watch this and come back and tell us what you think? Did the christian god mean for the earth to take billions of years before he said, ''Let there be light''?

 

[rjn]

What I am trying to say is that it's a true statement that many here have abandoned Christianity for intellectualism.....as the Bible states. It doesn't really matter the reasons behind the switch....the statement is still true. The truly wise, I think, would forego the switch UNTIL we had more information....especially in the area of the brain.Everyone keeps saying "NO EVIDENCE!" I get that, but the Bible is not very much about objective evidence....more, much more spiritual.And reasonably sure we don't have much to go on matching spiritual to objective.So yeah, I think many of you have quit the race too soon.

Some of us find the Bible to be not only unscientific, but also morally, philosophically and spiritually unsound. The thought that anyone could have a different view, aside from "rebelling against God", never entered your mind, did it?

[mymistake]

What I am trying to say is that it's a true statement that many here have abandoned Christianity for intellectualism.....as the Bible states. It doesn't really matter the reasons behind the switch....the statement is still true. The truly wise, I think, would forego the switch UNTIL we had more information....especially in the area of the brain.

 

Everyone keeps saying "NO EVIDENCE!" I get that, but the Bible is not very much about objective evidence....more, much more spiritual.

 

And reasonably sure we don't have much to go on matching spiritual to objective.

 

So yeah, I think many of you have quit the race too soon.

 

 

So the truly wise would wait.  (Just like you are waiting, right?)  Don't give up on Jesus until you have more information!

 

And the Bible is not very much about objective evidence . . . so in Christianity you will never get more information.

 

Do you see the infinite loop?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Out of curiosity End3, do you know the difference between intelligence and wisdom?

[Guest end3]

Here's a thought. If there is a possibility that hell exists and you might send someone to hell with your encouragement in disbelief, why in the hell would you do that? Especially when you can't be sure. Why encourage that? You don't have the gonads to go it alone?

[florduh]

Here's a thought. If there is a possibility that hell exists and you might send someone to hell with your encouragement in disbelief, why in the hell would you do that? Especially when you can't be sure. Why encourage that? You don't have the gonads to go it alone?

If there is a possibility that the Muslim's hell exists, shouldn't you hedge your bets and worship Allah? Oh,wait. I can't be sure that YOUR hell isn't real, but you are positive that Islam is false teaching. Nice.

[rjn]

Here's a thought. If there is a possibility that hell exists and you might send someone to hell with your encouragement in disbelief, why in the hell would you do that? Especially when you can't be sure. Why encourage that? You don't have the gonads to go it alone?

Oh, so now we're supposed to feel bad? We're the monsters right, not the genocidal character you call God? If people are doomed to hell because of the influence of others, are they truly making a free willed choice?

 

Edit: I bet millions of your Christian "siblings" think you are hellbound due to some ridiculous reason, like not belonging to the "right" denomination or for believing or practicing in the wrong way, or for having a boner in seventh grade when you peeked down the blouse of the preachers hot wife.

[mymistake]

Here's a thought. If there is a possibility that hell exists . . . 

 

 

There isn't.  It is far more likely that tomorrow morning you will wake up and be the ruler of the entire Earth.  After all you are real and Earth is real.  Hell is a myth based on the ancient Greeks observing volcanic activity.  Today scientists understand how volcanos work.  It has nothing to do with hell.

[Guest end3]

 

Here's a thought. If there is a possibility that hell exists and you might send someone to hell with your encouragement in disbelief, why in the hell would you do that? Especially when you can't be sure. Why encourage that? You don't have the gonads to go it alone?

If there is a possibility that the Muslim's hell exists, shouldn't you hedge your bets and worship Allah? Oh,wait. I can't be sure that YOUR hell isn't real, but you are positive that Islam is false teaching. Nice.

 

You missed the point ja. I'm not encouraging someone to relinquish a belief that guarantees hell via their current belief.

[Guest end3]

 

Here's a thought. If there is a possibility that hell exists and you might send someone to hell with your encouragement in disbelief, why in the hell would you do that? Especially when you can't be sure. Why encourage that? You don't have the gonads to go it alone?

Oh, so now we're supposed to feel bad? We're the monsters right, not the genocidal character you call God? If people are doomed to hell because of the influence of others, are they truly making a free willed choice?

 

Why do you think schools exist, why do you think encouragement groups exist, bars, churches, why do you think encouragement changes our bodies.

 

Ask youself this and then ask why grace exists. Not sure you have thought much out rj.

[mymistake]

 

You missed the point ja. I'm not encouraging someone to relinquish a belief that guarantees hell via their current belief.

 

 

 

But you are encouraging people to have a belief that destroys self esteem, causes a tremendous waste of money and years, traps people in terrible shame, leads to terrible life choices, and causes all kinds of suffering.   

 

But you think you are the good guy.

 

 

 

 

Ask youself this and then ask why grace exists.

 

I would say that tens of millions of years ago mammals found they could survive better if families worked together.  That is the source of grace.  It predates humans and came long before people invented your God.

 

 

 

Not sure you have thought much out rj.

 

You think RJ might be the one who hasn't thought it through?  Right!  You've got a book written by men who didn't know where the sun hides at night.

[rjn]

Your question is rather vacuous. But as for lacking "the gonads": if we believed in hell, wouldn't we want to redeem ourselves, instead of, you know, sending more people there? The name of this site is EX-, not Anti-Christian or Pro-Satan. But I guess we could rename it to sodomitesandsatanists.net, to accommodate your view.