Christians: Why would an all-good God base our salvation from Hell on whether or not we believe in a 2,000-year-old supernatural story?

[LogicalFallacy]

12 minutes ago, LuthAMF said:

This is a classic DEFLECTION  to not actually deal with anything. Prof Redneck says I have "tactics". Y'all are MASTERS. I ain't intimidated one bit.

You seriously have to stop projecting. Any unbiased person reading from the start to the finish is not going conclude that it is we who are deflecting and not dealing. I'm not sure what your purpose is on this forum, but if it's to win souls or convince others with good argument you are doing a piss-poor job of it. If however your purpose is to be a total dick, congrats you get a gold medal.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

What really saddens me is how many of them cannot see themselves as they truly are.  In their delusion, they see themselves as they believe jesus sees them--as broken, but forgiven, redeemable.  In truth, they are just broken. 

 

In their arrogance they mistake our silence as weakness, when in reality, it is often compassion that stills our words toward them. 

 

Were I to tell one such as Luth the truth about himself, he would never understand it.  Until he can see it for himself, he will only blow it off as psychoanalysis.  As long as he believes in his delusion, he will never have to face the awful reality of who he really is.  His echo chamber will never inform him of it; and the only ones who have been where he is are us, the very ones he mocks with such abhorrent disdain.

 

Lurkers, behold the man and ask yourselves, is this self-inflicted martyrdom what you really want for yourselves?

[LuthAMF]

7 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

You seriously have to stop projecting. Any unbiased person reading from the start to the finish is not going conclude that it is we who are deflecting and not dealing. I'm not sure what your purpose is on this forum, but if it's to win souls or convince others with good argument you are doing a piss-poor job of it. If however your purpose is to be a total dick, congrats you get a gold medal.

How bout this. You want a "purpose"? It is NOT to win an argument. That is what YOU all want and anticipate. Ironhorse and Stranger? Have no idea what they said and don't care. 

 

Scripture itself has nailed you to the wall just like it has me. The fact that you prove yourself to be exactly as it says you are is striking. But since you've set yourselves so far above it, you cannot afford to admit it lest you condemn yourselves.  This becomes evident as your atheism is applied to life. 

 

Being a "dick" (I thought I was a duck)? Anybody who challenges you is rewarded with that epithet. Protect at all cost, right?

 

[LogicalFallacy]

8 minutes ago, LuthAMF said:

How bout this. You want a "purpose"? It is NOT to win an argument.

 

Note that convince =/= win.

How you say?? Category error.

 

8 minutes ago, LuthAMF said:

That is what YOU all want and anticipate. Ironhorse and Stranger? Have no idea what they said and don't care.

 

I've actually been trying to figure out what your objections are to points we raise. That's it. So far zip.

 

8 minutes ago, LuthAMF said:

Scripture itself has nailed you to the wall just like it has me.

 

In line with scripture.... I'm not sure whether to take this literally or allegorically, but like Genesis, if it's literal, its wrong!

 

8 minutes ago, LuthAMF said:

The fact that you prove yourself to be exactly as it says you are is striking. But since you've set yourselves so far above it, you cannot afford to admit it lest you condemn yourselves.  This becomes evident as your atheism is applied to life. 

 

What exactly does it say? (Note I can think of several verses you might be implying but I want to know what YOU think these are and what they are saying)

 

8 minutes ago, LuthAMF said:

Being a "dick" (I thought I was a duck)? Anybody who challenges you is rewarded with that epithet. Protect at all cost, right?

 

No. I never called Ironhorse or End a dick ever. Not even Stranger or Christforums to my memory (And I had hard words with CF)

[LuthAMF]

15 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

What really saddens me is how many of them cannot see themselves as they truly are.  In their delusion, they see themselves as they believe jesus sees them--as broken, but forgiven, redeemable.  In truth, they are just broken. 

 

In their arrogance they mistake our silence as weakness, when in reality, it is often compassion that stills our words toward them. 

 

Were I to tell one such as Luth the truth about himself, he would never understand it.  Until he can see it for himself, he will only blow it off as psychoanalysis.  As long as he believes in his delusion, he will never have to face the awful reality of who he really is.  His echo chamber will never inform him of it; and the only ones who have been where he is are us, the very ones he mocks with such abhorrent disdain.

 

Lurkers, behold the man and ask yourselves, is this self-inflicted martyrdom what you really want for yourselves?

Go ahead and tell me the "truth" about myself from your hyper-presumptuous magnanimity. It's already been done and it's far more precise and invasive than anything you could muster.

 

Martyrdom? What self-righteous prattle. The true martyrs stand in defiance to your brazen defiance. 

 

Compassion? Not a one of you "spare words". Eventually you spew forth the bile within you.

[LuthAMF]

5 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

What exactly does it say? (Note I can think of several verses you might be implying but I want to know what YOU think these are and what they are saying)

You've read the bible "cover to cover" which "made you" atheist. So, nope...won't be giving you verses until you tell me what you think they "are and what they are saying." Thats your common boast here. Lets have it.

[LuthAMF]

9 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Note that convince =/= win.

How you say?? Category error.

 

 

I've actually been trying to figure out what your objections are to points we raise. That's it. So far zip.

 

 

In line with scripture.... I'm not sure whether to take this literally or allegorically, but like Genesis, if it's literal, its wrong!

 

 

What exactly does it say? (Note I can think of several verses you might be implying but I want to know what YOU think these are and what they are saying)

 

 

No. I never called Ironhorse or End a dick ever. Not even Stranger or Christforums to my memory (And I had hard words with CF)

Yayy you.

[Joshpantera]

 

It's not so simple, Luth. 

 

You aren't delusional as christians simply because you disagree with atheists. You're delusional because you believe that a whole lot of evident nonsense is absolutely true.

 

And there's a big difference. Claiming to know things that you can not even possibly know, because an ancient book of gathered myths says such and such about the earth and universe says it, is pretty darn delusional. You can have a 200 IQ and at the same time, be completely deluded by a book of old myths. And the 200 IQ doesn't do anything to get one out of the fact that they are delusional for believing that these obvious and apparent myths are simply not true in any factual sense of the word truth. 

 

You what we often do around here as ex christian atheists? Who know dam well what scripture says and understand the contexts in which it was written? 

 

We start with Genesis 1:1 and then hold the apologists feet to the fire. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Astreja]

(heavy sigh)  What a sad, sad little man LuthAMF is -- no answers, no eloquence, no manners.  So much for "life in abundance," wot?

[LuthAMF]

3 minutes ago, Joshpantera said:

evident nonsense 

From an atheistic perspective, that is to be expected.

 

4 minutes ago, Joshpantera said:

book of gathered myths says such and such

"Myths" from an atheistic perspective. As though that is the ultimate and final perspective. 

 

6 minutes ago, Joshpantera said:

various obvious and apparent myths 

Simply because the atheist says so. Not by any demonstration to the contrary. Plant that head FIRMLY in the ground of Naturalistic Materialism. Sure is dark in there.

[Joshpantera]

5 minutes ago, LuthAMF said:

From an atheistic perspective, that is to be expected.

 

"Myths" from an atheistic perspective. As though that is the ultimate and final perspective. 

 

Simply because the atheist says so. Not by any demonstration to the contrary. Plant that head FIRMLY in the ground of Naturalistic Materialism. Sure is dark in there.

 

Come on tough guy, turn your bible to Genesis 1:1 and let's start at the beginning, you and I. 

 

Let's take it one verse at a time and pause for a reality check at each and every verse of the bible going forward. Are you tough enough to go there? Are you smart and clever enough to go there and come out on top? Let's do it. 

[LuthAMF]

5 minutes ago, Astreja said:

(heavy sigh)  What a sad, sad little man LuthAMF is -- no answers, no eloquence, no manners.  So much for "life in abundance," wot?

Sad little man? That may be true.

No answers? With fingers in your ears singing Lalalalala you can't hear them anyway. 

 

No eloquence? A matter of opinion. Have you read the filth that comes from your own?

 

No manners? As long as your "guests" eat your dung, you tolerate them. One wrong step...manners my ass.

[LuthAMF]

5 minutes ago, Joshpantera said:

 

Come on tough guy, turn your bible to Genesis 1:1 and let's start at the beginning, you and I. 

 

Let's take it one verse at a time and pause for a reality check at each and every verse of the bible going forward. Are you tough enough to go there? Are you smart and clever enough to go there and come out on top? Let's do it. 

Oooo a challenge. Already been done. Whom do you dispute?

[Joshpantera]

1 minute ago, LuthAMF said:

Oooo a challenge. Already been done. Whom do you dispute?

 

Just take it to this thread so we can start at the beginning and get this sorted out once and for all: 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

It is clear that this person prefers to harp on the faults and flaws in others so that he doesn't have to see the hideous thing he has become.

 

No.  I will not tell him the awful truth about himself.  As I said before, he is not currently able to understand it.  He would not even believe it.  He will need to discover it for himself.

[Joshpantera]

2 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

It is clear that this person prefers to harp on the faults and flaws in others so that he doesn't have to see the hideous thing he has become.

 

No.  I will not tell him the awful truth about himself.  As I said before, he is not currently able to understand it.  He would not even believe it.  He will need to discover it for himself.

 

If he will engage the challenge that day may come sooner than later. Or he'll just tuck tail and chicken out. We'll see. The web will see how this youtuber fairs. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Just now, Joshpantera said:

 

If he will engage the challenge that day may come sooner or later. Or he'll just tuck tail and chicken out. We'll see. 

4/1 odds, folks.  Place your bets.  Place your bets here!

[Astreja]

2 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

4/1 odds, folks.  Place your bets.  Place your bets here!

 

Five quatloos that he won't make it past Genesis 3.

[LuthAMF]

1 minute ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

It is clear that this person prefers to harp on the faults and flaws in others so that he doesn't have to see the hideous thing he has become.

 

No.  I will not tell him the awful truth about himself.  As I said before, he is not currently able to understand it.  He would not even believe it.  He will need to discover it for himself.

Awesome! Absolutely brilliant. 

Your analysis is worthless compared to One who knows my heart. You certainly dont. 

 

Discover for myself? Already been done, dude. But it's not done by the means you propose. But you're right...sometimes I can't believe it myself. Thus the need for a Savior.

[LuthAMF]

9 minutes ago, Joshpantera said:

 

If he will engage the challenge that day may come sooner than later. Or he'll just tuck tail and chicken out. We'll see. The web will see how this youtuber fairs. 

Has Christianity ever needed to "tuck tail"? No. And certainly not now in light of this. 

 

Of course, every trick imaginable will be utilized. Nothing new under the sun. Atheist sets all the rules. When one is violated, expect pandemonium. 

[LuthAMF]

24 minutes ago, Joshpantera said:

 

If he will engage the challenge that day may come sooner than later. Or he'll just tuck tail and chicken out. We'll see. The web will see how this youtuber fairs. 

Seriously? You against history.

Lemme guess...You win by default?

[Joshpantera]

22 minutes ago, LuthAMF said:

Has Christianity ever needed to "tuck tail"? No. And certainly not now in light of this. 

 

Of course, every trick imaginable will be utilized. Nothing new under the sun. Atheist sets all the rules. When one is violated, expect pandemonium. 

 

Great then I expect you to get yourself over to the thread for this informal debate, or discussion if you prefer.

 

No tricks, of course. None are needed. Just the bible read as it's written and you and I analyzing it for truth value verse by verse. It's started and under way. Genesis 1:1 awaiting your participation. Let's see how you do with what every apologist before you has already either declined or tried and failed. 

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

31 minutes ago, LuthAMF said:

But it's not done by the means you propose. 

What means did I propose?

[LogicalFallacy]

1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

4/1 odds, folks.  Place your bets.  Place your bets here!

 

25 crowns that he won't even properly respond to Josh's points. Instead we will see more of the same.

 

100 Nilfgardian crowns that he won't get past Genesis 1:1.

 

 

[LogicalFallacy]

2 hours ago, LuthAMF said:

You've read the bible "cover to cover" which "made you" atheist.

 

You make a claim. Back it up. Show me where I have actually said that. 

 

2 hours ago, LuthAMF said:

So, nope...won't be giving you verses until you tell me what you think they "are and what they are saying." Thats your common boast here. Lets have it.

 

I'm not even sure why you wouldn't quote the bible at this point if you really thought it'd prove your point. Do you think that perhaps the bible doesn't quite back you up as you'd like?

 

The point in getting you to state what you mean was so that I didn't put words in your mouth. It's no point in me saying I think you mean this from that verse, only for you to go I actually mean that from this verse. Let's pretend I've never read the bible. Not a verse.

 

So you say: "The fact that you prove yourself to be exactly as it says (the bible) you are is striking. "

 

So what does it say?