How Do You Justify Worshipping a god in an Evil World?

[florduh]

4 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

more characterization...

Characterization? Am I wrong in thinking that you won't answer the fucking question? By "answer" I mean a coherent, supportable argument that an all good, all knowing and all powerful god gets a pass for allowing (and sometimes even promoting/commanding) what is unspeakable evil - at least to us lowly humans?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

9 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

I am..  One, the church doesn't choose deacons and elders based on their inexperience.....neither do we choose our government leaders based on inexperience. 

Betting you haven't been faced with these experiences either.  We have two scenarios.....one, a child is raised by an evil subscribing person or is raised by and loving person.  Let's take option two for now.  At some point the child will choose a path that you already know what will happen down that path.  It doesn't matter if you tell the before hand, if you PASSIONATELY tell them the answer, they have set it in their mind and are going to traverse that path regardless.  As they move forward and hit stones, you can give them suggestions of how they might proceed, but fixing the problem doesn't support their overall wellbeing imo, for several reasons.  Now, if a child has repeatedly told you to bugger off, then the likelihood of saving their tiny rears is even less effective.  Notice how the mother in the story regretted having to sell her daughter?

Focus, boy.  Neither my experience nor any others is relevant, except for that of the ten-year-old sex slave.  An all-loving and all-powerful god cannot exist so long as one, single little girl is left in bondage.

[Edgarcito]

3 minutes ago, florduh said:

Characterization? Am I wrong in thinking that you won't answer the fucking question? By "answer" I mean a coherent, supportable argument that an all good, all knowing and all powerful god gets a pass for allowing (and sometimes even promoting/commanding) what is unspeakable evil - at least to us lowly humans?

Doesn't take a rocket scientist asshole to connect the dots between Israel and God, His children and ours. 

[Edgarcito]

5 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Focus, boy.  Neither my experience nor any others is relevant, except for that of the ten-year-old sex slave.  An all-loving and all-powerful god cannot exist so long as one, single little girl is left in bondage.

Did God saving Israel change their character?

[Edgarcito]

10 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Focus, boy.  Neither my experience nor any others is relevant, except for that of the ten-year-old sex slave.  An all-loving and all-powerful god cannot exist so long as one, single little girl is left in bondage.

Some day, and I hope you are lucky enough to have the experience I described...you will then understand what I'm saying.  And you're welcome.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

9 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

Did God saving Israel change their character?

How is that relevant to god saving a ten-year-old sex slave?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

6 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

Some day, and I hope you are lucky enough to have the experience I described...you will then understand what I'm saying.  And you're welcome.

For your information, I have 2 sons of my own, so you can cut the sanctimonious bullshit and address the issue at hand... dumbass.

[Justus]

1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Focus, boy.  Neither my experience nor any others is relevant, except for that of the ten-year-old sex slave.  An all-loving and all-powerful god cannot exist so long as one, single little girl is left in bondage.

I take it that your dismissal of the question whether you feel any responsibility for the ten-year old sex slave is your dismissal of having any responsibility to prevent the abuse.  So I'lI make the assumption that you would, but only you can answer whether you would if that 10 year old sex slave was a Muslim, or if you knew she would grow up and promote the killing of godless infidels?  

Come on, if you claim there is no God then why would you even make the accusation that God is any way responsible.  It seems to me that you don't really subscribe to liberty since the liberty to believe doesn't require evidence, faith requires evidence but you ain't the judge of anyone's faith.  If  Edgarcito wants to enable your enjoyment of this topic but then maybe he gets the same enjoyment but either way the only it seems that having asked without answers my questions then I it seems that ya'll are getting some sort of psychotic enjoyment  in repeatedly using the abuse these children to somehow to get back at a God that you don't even believe exists.

 

Or maybe you believe that if you ask the same question enough times that you might get a different response that the ones you got.  Either way, no sense in asking since some are self-evident.

 

[midniterider]

1 hour ago, Edgarcito said:

Maybe God allowed Jesus to suffer even though he did the right thing in order that it be fair when people who didn't do the right thing suffer.

 

 

Say what?

[midniterider]

Watches Christian's avoid saying anything that puts their do-nothing god in a bad light. 

 

The crazy is fabulous to watch.

[Edgarcito]

7 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

For your information, I have 2 sons of my own, so you can cut the sanctimonious bullshit and address the issue at hand... dumbass.

It's not disingenuous on my part....I really do hope that you get to experience guiding you sons. 

 

Here's my answer to your question.  The girl is a victim of humanity.  Perhaps she will find a person that will save her from her circumstance and that will guide her to God.  I have no idea the path God has for her.  I do believe that God knows our paths.

 

But to the crux....reasonably sure that Israel rejects God many times to the point where God gave responsibility over to humanity to own.  He does say that if you believe in me,things will work out in the end for the good.  Is that before physical death?  Idk.  But for sure POST physical death. 

 

It's not always the best thing to keep pulling children out of harm's way.  Many reasons why. 

 

What I keep hearing from you is "why doesn't God save her now".  Why the disgruntle over "why won't God now?"  You know the reason.  Israel rejected Him enough where he said go do it.  

 

Yet here we are again.... God sucks. 

 

I've tried to give you an example of autonomy.....children.  I've tried to give you and example of a father that still cares....the Holy Spirit. 

 

WITF is wrong with your comprehension skills.  I'm pretty sure the vast majority of you are a good bit brighter that I ....yet you can't see.  Especially your stubborn ass Florduh.

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

@Justus, for my part, if it were in my power to do, I would prevent all human trafficking and sexual abuse, irrespective of the religion, socio-political view, or temperament if the victims.

 

If it were in your power to do, would you reconcile an all-loving and all-powerful god allowing such evil?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

1 minute ago, Edgarcito said:

It's not disingenuous on my part....I really do hope that you get to experience guiding you sons. 

Yes, it is.  This is just another attempt to shift the focus off of your god.

[Edgarcito]

1 minute ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Yes, it is.  This is just another attempt to shift the focus off of your god.

I rest my case bud...I truly can't explain my position any more clearly. 

 

He's forgiven those who wish to be forgiven and simultaneous is still there for those that want to talk.  Amen and adios.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

33 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

It's not always the best thing to keep pulling children out of harm's way.  Many reasons why. 

Give me one good reason not to pull a ten-year-old girl out of sexual slavery.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

37 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

What I keep hearing from you is "why doesn't God save her now".  Why the disgruntle over "why won't God now?"  You know the reason.  Israel rejected Him enough where he said go do it.  

What Israel chose to do in ancient mythology is not an excuse for god to punish, even by omission, innocent children. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

38 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

I have no idea the path God has for her.

This is the closest you have come to an honest answer.  

[midniterider]

I wonder why biblegod would create a child that would have to be sold into slavery to prevent her from being a Muslim who kills godless infidels?

 

edit: When you could just create a child who would not grow up to kill anyone.

 

Lol

[Edgarcito]

2 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

This is the closest you have come to an honest answer.  

You keep inquiring for some reason ....I guess thinking I am duping you somehow.  We have the Bible, we have orthodoxy, and then we have Edgarcito's grand unified theory that attempts to put all the variables together to satisfy what we observe and theorize.  I can go to church and sit idly in the pew but I feel I am past that stage.  I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings or discount anyone's positive or negative experiences....I just enjoy the conversations.  People think I am psychotic if I introduce thoughts like this in Sunday School.  I've literally had people shake their heads "no" after expressing an opinion, while I am sitting there.  Again, I can play the orthodoxy card and climb up the golden ladder to church good guy, deacon, elder.  It's not me. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

8 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

You keep inquiring for some reason ....I guess thinking I am duping you somehow.  We have the Bible, we have orthodoxy, and then we have Edgarcito's grand unified theory that attempts to put all the variables together to satisfy what we observe and theorize.  I can go to church and sit idly in the pew but I feel I am past that stage.  I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings or discount anyone's positive or negative experiences....I just enjoy the conversations.  People think I am psychotic if I introduce thoughts like this in Sunday School.  I've literally had people shake their heads "no" after expressing an opinion, while I am sitting there.  Again, I can play the orthodoxy card and climb up the golden ladder to church good guy, deacon, elder.  It's not me. 

That's all well and good, and possibly even true.  We're just asking you to reconcile a logical impossibility.   We know it's impossible; but, by all means, keep trying.

[WalterP]

19 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

Appears you are frustrated.  What I can allow is that it, good, seems to start one person, one relationship at a time.  And with social media, I expect it can even move faster than that these days.  For me, it's my interpretation that this commission is given to us to for hope, to hold on to hope in light of the crap in this world.  If you don't wish to speculate that there is the Christian God behind some plan, no biggie... but for me, I think it fits decently in the story we have been given. 

 

Again, I place us in the timeline between the resurrection of Christ and His return.....a time where the onus is on individuals to decide whether Jesus is real, and place their faith and actions in accordance with that determination.  Might be real....might be a crapshoot....to each his own.

 

Mark 8 : 36.

 

'What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit the soul?'

 

This verse came to mind when I read your words, Edgarcito. 

 

You think you've found an interpretation of the Bible that works... but in doing so, what has it cost you?

 

Your soul?

 

 

[Edgarcito]

4 hours ago, WalterP said:

 

Mark 8 : 36.

 

'What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit the soul?'

 

This verse came to mind when I read your words, Edgarcito. 

 

You think you've found an interpretation of the Bible that works... but in doing so, what has it cost you?

 

Your soul?

 

 

Not sure what to say here sir....not sure how Mark 8:36 relates to understanding God, searching our minds and scripture for things we don't understand.  And to your comment in the other thread about me being callus.....you don't know who I am.  You don't know what I do daily nor what I do in my spare time.  You have no clue my history, nor whether I have 17 children or none.  You know NOTHING about me yet want to conclude that I have no empathy towards that child or concern for these plights on humanity.   

[midniterider]

14 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

You keep inquiring for some reason ....I guess thinking I am duping you somehow.  We have the Bible, we have orthodoxy, and then we have Edgarcito's grand unified theory that attempts to put all the variables together to satisfy what we observe and theorize.  I can go to church and sit idly in the pew but I feel I am past that stage.  I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings or discount anyone's positive or negative experiences....I just enjoy the conversations.  People think I am psychotic if I introduce thoughts like this in Sunday School.  I've literally had people shake their heads "no" after expressing an opinion, while I am sitting there.  Again, I can play the orthodoxy card and climb up the golden ladder to church good guy, deacon, elder.  It's not me. 

 

Lion's Den debates aside, I'm glad you dont sit idly in a pew nor let the bible or a pastor be your brain. I'm glad you take into account what we observe and theorize and hopefully dont make up nonsense that God or Satan put fossils out there to fool us. 

 

In the past:

 

I've applied logic to my Christian friends about the end times and asked them why they werent welcoming the untimely deaths of Christian friends and family since they thought they were going to heaven. They shook their heads like I was crazy or something...it was almost like they didnt  believe in heaven.

 

 I talked to my pastor about how some scripture sounds like Zen ideas...that was not welcomed... 

 

Life is full of contradiction and hypocrisy. Not just in religion. Everywhere. We all seem to survive it without cognitive dissonance.  Living is a gray area. 

 

 

[Edgarcito]

2 hours ago, midniterider said:

 

Lion's Den debates aside, I'm glad you dont sit idly in a pew nor let the bible or a pastor be your brain. I'm glad you take into account what we observe and theorize and hopefully dont make up nonsense that God or Satan put fossils out there to fool us. 

 

In the past:

 

I've applied logic to my Christian friends about the end times and asked them why they werent welcoming the untimely deaths of Christian friends and family since they thought they were going to heaven. They shook their heads like I was crazy or something...it was almost like they didnt  believe in heaven.

 

 I talked to my pastor about how some scripture sounds like Zen ideas...that was not welcomed... 

 

Life is full of contradiction and hypocrisy. Not just in religion. Everywhere. We all seem to survive it without cognitive dissonance.  Living is a gray area. 

 

 

Thank you sir.

[WalterP]

3 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

Not sure what to say here sir....not sure how Mark 8:36 relates to understanding God, searching our minds and scripture for things we don't understand.  And to your comment in the other thread about me being callus.....you don't know who I am.  You don't know what I do daily nor what I do in my spare time.  You have no clue my history, nor whether I have 17 children or none.  You know NOTHING about me yet want to conclude that I have no empathy towards that child or concern for these plights on humanity.   

 

Edgarcito,

 

I don't need to know any more about you to make the 'callous' comment, than you needed to know about me to make your 'stupid' comment.

 

Both of us are proceeding on exactly the same basis - what appears in these threads.

 

I wrote my Mark 8 : 36 post in response to your words in this thread.

 

That's all either of us have to go on.

 

 

But if you're unhappy with that limitation and want us to know more about your life, you could do what I did here, when I replied to Justus.  (2nd post from last)

 

https://www.ex-christian.net/topic/82607-is-it-actually-impossible-to-reason-with-a-devout-christian/page/16/

 

It's your call.