Blind chance or god

[TheRedneckProfessor]

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."  Genesis 2:17

 

And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters: so all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died.  Genesis 5:4-5

 

god doesn't lie...

 

god told Adam that he would die the same day he ate the fruit.  But Adam lived on for another 800 years even after Seth was born, which was long after Adam ate of the fruit.

 

god lied to Adam.  

 

 

[SilentVoice]

A caterpillar decides that staying alive is too easy. That caterpillar that "evolved" to be red/yellow/black, etc. The one that has to warn away predators to stay alive, because staying alive is it's only evolutionary purpose. The one covered in spikes, you know the one. Yeah, it evolved to turn in to a butterfly (because reasons). So it decides to hang itself up in the most vulnerable position possible and allow predators to eat it while its defences are down. So then it completely changes its form (because reasons). Then it hatches and is covered in bright colours to attract even higher predators like birds that can fly faster than the fastest land animals. Then it just decides to float around from tree to tree, inviting death on itself.

 

Wow, creatures caused by evolution really are brave aren't they.

 

Wait, was the purpose of evolution to survive, or to make it easier to be killed? Can one of you guys help me out?

[SilentVoice]

4 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."  Genesis 2:17

 

And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters: so all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died.  Genesis 5:4-5

 

god doesn't lie...

 

god told Adam that he would die the same day he ate the fruit.  But Adam lived on for another 800 years even after Seth was born, which was long after Adam ate of the fruit.

 

god lied to Adam.  

 

 

God doesn't lie. Adam was immortal until he ate that fruit, he died spiritually and continued to deteriorate (with what you might call entropy) until his body died. The further people got from God, the more their lives shortened. Even 120 was short for those people that God told would be their cut-off, but even 60 is considered old now. God has made several exceptions including Job and a handful of people today being 1 or 2 years over 120.

[webmdave]

Religious myths and fables are just myths and fables, nothing more.

[SilentVoice]

1 minute ago, webmdave said:

Religious myths and fables are just myths and fables, nothing more.

What kind of miracle (if you can bring yourself to be honest and truthful) would you have to witness with your eyes for you to come back to God?

 

I'm talking about like a crane literally falling on top of a Christian and him surving, etc.

[Hierophant]

15 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

God doesn't lie. Adam was immortal until he ate that fruit, he died spiritually and continued to deteriorate (with what you might call entropy) until his body died. The further people got from God, the more their lives shortened. Even 120 was short for those people that God told would be their cut-off, but even 60 is considered old now. God has made several exceptions including Job and a handful of people today being 1 or 2 years over 120.

 

False. Go back and read Genesis. Adam was not inherently immortal. He and Eve had to continue eating from the tree of live to live forever (Genesis 3:22).

[webmdave]

14 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

What kind of miracle (if you can bring yourself to be honest and truthful) would you have to witness with your eyes for you to come back to God?

 

I enjoy being entertained by fantastic tales as much as anyone. But, a fantastic tale is still just a story. And, there are many tales of people surving all kinds of seemingly impossible senarios. Example: 9/11 WTC survival stories. Nothing supernatural about it. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

2 hours ago, SilentVoice said:

God doesn't lie. Adam was immortal until he ate that fruit, he died spiritually and continued to deteriorate (with what you might call entropy) until his body died. The further people got from God, the more their lives shortened. Even 120 was short for those people that God told would be their cut-off, but even 60 is considered old now. God has made several exceptions including Job and a handful of people today being 1 or 2 years over 120.

No.  god lied.  god said Adam would die the day he ate the fruit.  He didn't say anything about spiritual death, or that Adam would slowly deteriorate.  He literally said Adam would literally die on the literal day he ate the fruit.  There was an evening and a morning, the first day.  Adam understood a day as a day, not a period of time.  So, god literally lied.

 

Moreover, if god said one thing; but meant something else, then god literally lied.  Worse still, if god can't, won't, or doesn't say what he means and mean what he says, then literally nothing in the bible can be trusted.

 

god is a liar.

[midniterider]

 

2 hours ago, SilentVoice said:

God doesn't lie. Adam was immortal until he ate that fruit, he died spiritually and continued to deteriorate (with what you might call entropy) until his body died. The further people got from God, the more their lives shortened. Even 120 was short for those people that God told would be their cut-off, but even 60 is considered old now. God has made several exceptions including Job and a handful of people today being 1 or 2 years over 120.

 

Died spiritually.....a meaningless phrase. God didn't say he'd die spiritually if he ate the fruit....he said he'd DIE!

[midniterider]

3 hours ago, SilentVoice said:

Adam was immortal until he ate that fruit.

 

Biblical citation please. 

[midniterider]

3 hours ago, SilentVoice said:

A caterpillar decides that staying alive is too easy. That caterpillar that "evolved" to be red/yellow/black, etc. The one that has to warn away predators to stay alive, because staying alive is it's only evolutionary purpose. The one covered in spikes, you know the one. Yeah, it evolved to turn in to a butterfly (because reasons). So it decides to hang itself up in the most vulnerable position possible and allow predators to eat it while its defences are down. So then it completely changes its form (because reasons). Then it hatches and is covered in bright colours to attract even higher predators like birds that can fly faster than the fastest land animals. Then it just decides to float around from tree to tree, inviting death on itself.

 

Wow, creatures caused by evolution really are brave aren't they.

 

Wait, was the purpose of evolution to survive, or to make it easier to be killed? Can one of you guys help me out?

 

That's called metamorphosis, not evolution. It's part of the maturation process. Lord Jesus, could you help SV out? Jesus? Hello?

[Astreja]

3 hours ago, SilentVoice said:

Wait, was the purpose of evolution to survive, or to make it easier to be killed? Can one of you guys help me out?

 

Evolution has no predetermined "purpose" at all.  It is an observation and explanation of something that happens naturally:  If an organism has even a slight advantage over others in the same environment, it out-competes them for food, reproductive mates and other resources, and goes on to produce more offspring.  This repeats with every generation:  Slight advantages eventually dominate, because the organisms with that advantage have better survival prospects.

 

And there is literally nothing you can do about this, other than put your fingers in your ears and yell "La la la la I don't hear you!"

[SilentVoice]

1 hour ago, Astreja said:

 

Evolution has no predetermined "purpose" at all.  It is an observation and explanation of something that happens naturally:  If an organism has even a slight advantage over others in the same environment, it out-competes them for food, reproductive mates and other resources, and goes on to produce more offspring.  This repeats with every generation:  Slight advantages eventually dominate, because the organisms with that advantage have better survival prospects.

 

And there is literally nothing you can do about this, other than put your fingers in your ears and yell "La la la la I don't hear you!"

How does leaving the abundant food of leaves give them an advantage in competing for food? There are fewer flowers containing nectar than there are leaves to eat. Do you have any idea of the ratio between the mass of available leaves to eat for a caterpillar and the mass of itself? It could spend a million years eating leaves and still only eat a few trees worth of food. How does a caterpillar have to compete for food? None of them do. How does turning in to a butterfly give them an advantage? They have LESS food to eat and are more vulnerable to attack from predators. Spending time in a cocoon makes them even more vulnerable.

 

You are utterly failing to explain the evolutionary purpose in question. No living species has a need to change in to another form, nor do environmental factors force it to happen.

 

Butterflies have WORSE survival prospects. You have failed once again to defend your stupid theories.

 

 

 

 

[SilentVoice]

1 hour ago, midniterider said:

Biblical citation please. 

Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

 

Satan is called the father of lies. Its' lies caused sin which caused death.

[SilentVoice]

2 hours ago, midniterider said:

Died spiritually.....a meaningless phrase. God didn't say he'd die spiritually if he ate the fruit....he said he'd DIE!

And Adam died.

 

2 Peter 3:

⁸ But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

⁹ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[SilentVoice]

1 hour ago, midniterider said:

That's called metamorphosis, not evolution. It's part of the maturation process.

Normal creature:

[Egg / gestation period] -> Born as a creature which grows to adulthood

 

Butterfly:

[Egg] -> Hatch as a creature which grows to adulthood -> Turns itself into a completely different creature which is more vulnerable to predators and has less food to eat

 

There are no evolutionary advantages to leaving adulthood of one form and changing in to another.

[midniterider]

16 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

 

Satan is called the father of lies. Its' lies caused sin which caused death.

 

Biblical citation for where it says Adam was immortal. These passages dont say that. 

[Hierophant]

2 Peter is a forgery. Moreover, that passage you quoted is about the delay of the Parousia. Early Christians thought Jesus was to return soon and establish a kingdom on earth, and they thought it was happening soon (definitely not 2000+ years later). Skeptics of the religion were giving Christians a hard time about the arrival of the Kingdom of God and 2 Peter is a later apologetic to try and explain away the delay of the Parousia.

[webmdave]

33 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

You are utterly failing to explain the evolutionary purpose in question.

 

And therefore, "God did it!" 

 

Which of course explains nothing any more than the statement "Mother Nature did it." Or "Zeus did it." Or "Allah did it." Or "an elfin magick unicorn did it!" 

 

Any apparent survival illogic in the lifecycle of a butterfly argues against "intelligent design" and instead supports the natural process of (mindless) evolution. Lots of species have gone extinct, because natural evolution comes with plenty of variety but no guarantees.

 

The absence of a total and complete knowledge or understanding of anything in nature does not by default prove that Jesus is the incarnate son of Jehovah God. All you demonstrate by your arguments is the unfortunate weakness of current public education. 

[SilentVoice]

5 hours ago, Hierophant said:

 

False. Go back and read Genesis. Adam was not inherently immortal. He and Eve had to continue eating from the tree of live to live forever (Genesis 3:22).

This is incorrect. Adam & Eve never ate from the tree of life. Not once. They were able to eat fruit / herbs for food but interestingly enough they were vegetarians because (i) death did not exist yet so animals couldn't die, and (ii) God gave them fruit/herbs for meat and the only time animals were given as meat was after the flood.

 

²¹ Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them. [Isn't this lovely?]

²² And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

²³ Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

²⁴ So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

 

Your misunderstanding of doctrine is caused by accepting heresies from a multitude of places such as other religions, Jews, Satan and false teachers. You've absorbed their 'knowledge' and now do not recognize truth. You believe that by looking at Christianity from every external view, it will give you a more complete understanding of it and yet you don't know anything.

[midniterider]

14 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

And Adam died.

 

2 Peter 3:

⁸ But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

⁹ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

 

Why does the Lord your god write stupid stuff like that in his bible? Why do you worship a god that writes stupid stuff in his bible? 

[webmdave]

1 minute ago, SilentVoice said:

Your misunderstanding of doctrine

 

Misunderstanding of Hebrew mythology, you mean. 

[SilentVoice]

6 minutes ago, webmdave said:

 

And therefore, "God did it!" 

 

Which of course explains nothing any more than the statement "Mother Nature did it." Or "Zeus did it." Or "Allah did it." Or "an elfin magick unicorn did it!" 

 

Any apparent survival illogic in the lifecycle of a butterfly argues against "intelligent design" and instead supports the natural process of (mindless) evolution. Lots of species have gone extinct, because natural evolution comes with plenty of variety but no guarantees.

 

The absence of a total and complete knowledge or understanding of anything in nature does not by default prove that Jesus is the incarnate son of Jehovah God. All you demonstrate by your arguments is the unfortunate weakness of current public education. 

Your post just means "We can't explain it using the theory that we cling to that explains what we want it to explain. But God didn't do it".

[Hierophant]

12 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

This is incorrect. Adam & Eve never ate from the tree of life. Not once. They were able to eat food / herbs for food but interestingly enough they were vegetarians because (i) death did not exist yet so animals couldn't die, and (ii) God gave them fruit/herbs for meat and the only time animals were given as meat was after the flood.

 

²¹ Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them. [Isn't this lovely?]

²² And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

²³ Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

²⁴ So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

 

Your misunderstanding of doctrine is caused by accepting heresies from a multitude of places such as other religions, Jews, Satan and false teachers. You've absorbed their 'knowledge' and now do not recognize truth. You believe that by looking at Christianity from every external view, it will give you a more complete understanding of it and yet you don't know anything.

 

So T-Rex was in the garden eating....watermelons with those big teeth? Death was around way before any modern humans, get over yourself.

 

I was going to correct myself, but then I realized you are forcing an interpretation of the text. You are reading assumptions in that I will not grant. The only tree they were forbidden to eat from was the tree in the middle of the garden. It is possible they were already eating from the tree of life to prevent their death.

 

I love the fact that you pump yourself up in your ignorance and arrogance. God's special gnostic; the chosen one of revelation.

[webmdave]

9 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

Your post just means...

 

That Hebrew myths explain absolutely nothing, regardless of your or my ignorance as to exactly how it (nature) all works. 

 

Ben Franklin was condemned by the churches of his day for inventing the lightning rod. Why? Because lightning was the power and wrath of God and Franklin was thwarting the will of God. 

 

Religion is silly.