God is Real

[TheRedneckProfessor]

3 hours ago, Weezer said:

 

Are you sure of that??  A lot of people here must enjoy wasting time.

That explains why you're still here after all these years.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

11 hours ago, AustinAustin said:

It's Universal, all within the Universe is based upon logic.

Except for testicles being on the outside.  That has do be the most illogical design flaw ever.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

@AustinAustin, I'm still waiting for us to test and see if logic really is an absolute.  What do you say, son?  Are you willing to see if two people reach the same conclusion following the same logical progression?

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

1 hour ago, alreadyGone said:

I come here to learn various points of view and learned observations on this matter of theistic beliefs from others here, people like yourself Weezer. In one year I've learned plenty, views and observations that would not have occurred to me otherwise.

 

This does not sound like a waste of time at all. I'm glad to know these little debates with Christians are strengthening others in this forum. It is good practice, ya never know when one of you former Christian fundies might pop up with their own profound revelation for you to discuss in the RL.

[AustinAustin]

10 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Okay, let's test it to see if it really is true.  If logic is an absolute, then two people following the same logical progression should arrive at the same conclusion.  Do you agree?

Google it, this isn't my idea, this is science. Logic is the absolute standard of reason, please, google it.

 

We should waste no more time on such -if you disagree, your battle is with science, not me.

[AustinAustin]

43 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Except for testicles being on the outside.  That has do be the most illogical design flaw ever.

For semen to be healthy it must be kept at a temprature several degrees lower than the human body temprature. It's by necessity that the testicles are on the outside.

[alreadyGone]

So @AustinAustin,

 

How can we use logic to identify the defining characteristics of a spirit?

[Joshpantera]

13 minutes ago, AustinAustin said:

Google it, this isn't my idea, this is science. Logic is the absolute standard of reason, please, google it.

 

We should waste no more time on such -if you disagree, your battle is with science, not me.

Is logic absolute? - Quora

 

"I could formulate a fancy, intricate answer to this, exploring very deep aspects of very interesting ideas.

But I’ll be honest and straightforward for this one. Because it is of supreme importance that this answer is very, very clear.

Nobody knows. Nobody knows what that would even mean."

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

9 minutes ago, AustinAustin said:

For semen to be healthy it must be kept at a temprature several degrees lower than the human body temprature. It's by necessity that the testicles are on the outside.

 

How about another subject since I'm done with the logic argument.  

 

Knowing some of what science has discovered from a secular perspective. 

 

Do you believe in evolution? That basically over time our testicles got farther away from our bodies to insure the future of the species? Make us more fertile? 

[AustinAustin]

1 hour ago, alreadyGone said:

 

Most of the Bible was written in a time when legend and myth were the most common form of entertainment.

 

 

1 hour ago, Derek said:

I can't really see how it's logical that a murderous, vindictive, bloodthirsty, barbaric, childish being loves us and wants to save us from a fate that he created in the first place...but I'm far from the smartest person here.

No. God created heaven on Earth. When Adam and Eve rebelled against God, our world became a fallen one. Sin entered, bringing death, sickness, work, suffering, and everything you see -we did this, not God.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Just now, DarkBishop said:

 

How about another subject since I'm done with the logic argument.  

 

Knowing some of what science has discovered from a secular perspective. 

 

Do you believe in evolution? That basically over time our testicles got farther away from our bodies to insure the future of the species? Make us more fertile? 

@AustinAustin Actually wait a minute. Let's not clutter this thread. I'll make another in case your interested. 

[Joshpantera]

18 minutes ago, AustinAustin said:

Google it, this isn't my idea, this is science. Logic is the absolute standard of reason, please, google it.

 

We should waste no more time on such -if you disagree, your battle is with science, not me.

 

Is Logic an Absolute? (smallings.com)

 

"The foundation of logic is the proposition, a thing is what it is, and is not what it is not. Aristotle put it formally as A is not non-A at the same time and in the same relationship. A tree is a tree and is not a non-tree. It is not a dog, a fish or a cloud. That statement is both reality and logic at the same time. This basic law of logic is known as the Law of Non-Contradictions.

Nonsense can therefore be defined as non-reality. Sense is that which corresponds to reality. It is the verbal or mental conception of the real world."

[AustinAustin]

2 hours ago, alreadyGone said:

 

Enjoy?

Not sure that's an accurate characterization.

Assuredly though, it is a waste of time.

 

For myself, I spend most of my time in front of a screen.

I can't sustain continual attention 24/7 to my work. I wish I could, but I lack quite that kind of discipline.

 

I have few other distractions of any kind at this point in my life.

Sad, but it's the way it is.

I come here to learn various points of view and learned observations on this matter of theistic beliefs from others here, people like yourself Weezer. In one year I've learned plenty, views and observations that would not have occurred to me otherwise.

 

In my time here I've experienced BroRando, PittsburghJoe, and now AustinAustin, stumbling into the Den.

 

Participating in my own way in the discussion with those True Christians has helped me clarify my thinking and given me opportunity to learn from other ExChristians through the particular lens of discussion with those believers who come here with the attitude exemplified by PittsburghJoe when he declared "this site has got to be shut down!".

 

And now, AustinAustin. I'm sure he means well.

There was a time I would have shared his certainty, and to an extent, his willingness to ignore reality in order to posit his unfounded assertions in an effort to persuade others to believe as he does.

 

The desire to have a God, someone to make choices for me, to take responsibility for dealing with human temporal reality is a peculiar thing.

And I want to fully understand why I once shared that warped desire and delusion myself.

 

I need to understand it.. if for no other reason than to better understand myself, and to avoid equally foolish self-delusion in the future.

 

And, I want to better understand the human tendency to lie to oneself in avoidance of evident reality because such is so very common, and I need to be better prepared to protect myself from it. Human beings are the most dangerous animals on earth. And I believe that tendency to lie to oneself is the primary reason they are so dangerous.

 

 

No one wants a master, especially us guys. 

 

What you are in fact seeking is God.

 

⁶ Jesus said to him, “I am the [only] Way [to God] and the [real] Truth and the [real] Life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. John 14:6 Amplified Bible 

[AustinAustin]

7 minutes ago, Joshpantera said:

Is logic absolute? - Quora

 

"I could formulate a fancy, intricate answer to this, exploring very deep aspects of very interesting ideas.

But I’ll be honest and straightforward for this one. Because it is of supreme importance that this answer is very, very clear.

Nobody knows. Nobody knows what that would even mean."

?

[AustinAustin]

2 minutes ago, Joshpantera said:

 

Is Logic an Absolute? (smallings.com)

 

"The foundation of logic is the proposition, a thing is what it is, and is not what it is not. Aristotle put it formally as A is not non-A at the same time and in the same relationship. A tree is a tree and is not a non-tree. It is not a dog, a fish or a cloud. That statement is both reality and logic at the same time. This basic law of logic is known as the Law of Non-Contradictions.

Nonsense can therefore be defined as non-reality. Sense is that which corresponds to reality. It is the verbal or mental conception of the real world."

Your sources are the problem...

[alreadyGone]

1 minute ago, AustinAustin said:

No one wants a master, especially us guys. 

 

What you are in fact seeking is God.

 

 

Human beings are always looking for a master, someone to tell them how to make the tough choices presented by the challenge of being a weak frail species in the face of a cold uncaring universe.

 

Humans always seek leadership, guidance, someone else to be responsible. All of human history tells us this.

 

"What you are in fact seeking is God."

What I am seeking is an answer to the simple question I have presented to you.

 

Lacking an answer to the question "what is a spirit, and how do we know that there is a human spirit?", then your original thesis in this discussion is meaningless.

 

 

[Joshpantera]

39 minutes ago, Joshpantera said:

That statement is both reality and logic at the same time. This basic law of logic is known as the Law of Non-Contradictions.

Nonsense can therefore be defined as non-reality. Sense is that which corresponds to reality. It is the verbal or mental conception of the real world."

 

God as 1) omnipresent, meaning "all present," and 2) the christian god of the bible. 

 

An omnipresent god contradicts the idea that god is one fixed being. An omnipresent god, logically, is a god who is present everywhere and absent nowhere. That amounts to a god who is everything.

 

This under cuts the idea of separateness and unifies everything as one, all encompassing, interconnected whole. It means pantheism. Not monotheism. 

 

Except the bible doesn't unify everything and isn't pantheism - it isn't actually about an "omnipresen"t god. It separates everything into isolated entities. Not a unified "omnipresence" which is everywhere and everything. 

 

An omnipresent god who is NOT everything, is a contradiction. It violates logic. It violates the law of non-contradiction. It's a massive contradiction, acutally. 

 

If you say, the omnipresent god IS everything, that contradicts the claims of the bible that suggest that god isn't satan, doesn't have presence in hell as well as heaven, isn't the world itself, fallen or otherwise, etc., etc. 

 

The idea of a "fallen" world contradicts the claim of an omnipresent god. An omnipresent god would BE the world itself. If the world is fallen, then so too is the god fallen because an omnipresent god can not be absent the world, or absent anything. 

 

God who is omnipresent can't be not-omnipresent. 

 

The bible is non-reality according to the logical law of non-contradiction. 

[alreadyGone]

Austin,

A point often made here at Ex-Christian.net is that most of us at one time did believe in God, the god of the Bible.

 

I wanted there to be a God.

I was taught from my earliest childhood that there was a God, that Jesus was God in the flesh who presented himself for crucifixion as a blood sacrifice to atone for our sin. In order to allow us entry into an eternal paradise.

 

I did believe it.

I wish it were so.

For almost 60 years I believed it as fervently as you apparently believe it.

 

Today however, I need convincing that I even have an eternal self that can exist in any eternal world.

You have not presented to me any reason to believe this.

What you have done instead is present your feelings, your belief based on how you wish things to be, the reality you wish to be so.

 

I could take your belief more seriously if you could tell me where there is an objective reason to believe there is any such thing as a human "soul", a human spirit.

 

Perhaps you possess a human spirit, and I do not.

Convince me.

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

50 minutes ago, AustinAustin said:

Google it, this isn't my idea, this is science. Logic is the absolute standard of reason, please, google it.

 

We should waste no more time on such -if you disagree, your battle is with science, not me.

I have already told you that my battle is not with science.  If logic is, in fact, the absolute standard, then testing it, proving it, is not a waste of time; and I'd think you'd want to be able to show us that you're right, especially if it leads to evidence of god's existence, while our immortal souls hang in the balance. 

 

Unless, of course...

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

3 hours ago, AustinAustin said:

For semen to be healthy it must be kept at a temprature several degrees lower than the human body temprature. It's by necessity that the testicles are on the outside.

There are multiple ways of regulating the temperature of semen without putting the most vulnerable part of male anatomy in such a conveniently kickable place.  There are also multiple ways of achieving reproduction without the need for sperm cells.  How is sexual reproduction more logical than asexual reproduction?

[AustinAustin]

5 minutes ago, alreadyGone said:

Austin,

A point often made here at Ex-Christian.net is that most of us at one time did believe in God, the god of the Bible.

 

I wanted there to be a God.

I was taught from my earliest childhood that there was a God, that Jesus was God in the flesh who presented himself for crucifixion as a blood sacrifice to atone for our sin. In order to allow us entry into an eternal paradise.

 

I did believe it.

I wish it were so.

For almost 60 years I believed it as fervently as you apparently believe it.

 

Today however, I need convincing that I even have an eternal self that can exist in any eternal world.

You have not presented to me any reason to believe this.

What you have done instead is present your feelings, your belief based on how you wish things to be, the reality you wish to be so.

 

I could take your belief more seriously if you could tell me where there is an objective reason to believe there is any such thing as a human "soul", a human spirit.

 

Perhaps you possess a human spirit, and I do not.

Convince me.

 

Not once have I said, "I feel this so it must be true." Instead, I have shown a logic example which proves the Existence of God.

 

God does Exist, and so does your spirit.

[AustinAustin]

Just now, TheRedneckProfessor said:

There are multiple ways of regulating the temperature of seven without putting the most vulnerable part of male anatomy in such a conveniently kickable place.  There are also multiple ways of achieving reproduction without the need for sperm cells.  How is sexual reproduction more logical than asexual reproduction?

Again, your battle is with science, not me.

[alreadyGone]

I noticed in your post to me a few minutes ago that the bible content you copy/pasted is highlighted in reverse-field...  dark background with light foreground.

 

And so too was your original thesis in your first post in this discussion.

Austin, was that original first post copy-pasted from another source, or are those your own thoughts and words???

 

 

[AustinAustin]

Just now, alreadyGone said:

I noticed in your post to me a few minutes ago that the bible content you copy/pasted is highlighted in reverse-field...  dark background with light foreground.

 

And so too was your original thesis in your first post in this discussion.

Austin, was that original first post copy-pasted from another source, or are those your own thoughts and words???

 

 

The logic example is not mine. 

[alreadyGone]

2 minutes ago, AustinAustin said:

...and so does your spirit.

 

Again, an assertion of something you cannot even define.

 

What precisely is a "spirit" ???

 

 

btw... random capitalization does nothing to prove the efficacy or truth of your words.

 

Letter are capitalized either as the first character in a sentence, or the first character in a proper noun.

https://www.grammarly.com/blog/capitalization-rules/