God is Real

[alreadyGone]

Austin,

How can you assert such certainty as to the existence of something that you cannot even define?

 

It's a simple direct question: what, precisely is a spirit?

 

The bible goes to some length to say that we as humans cannot know God, that the reality of God is beyond our understanding.

 

That being the case, how do we take seriously the assertion that our eternal human life is dependent upon God's acceptance of our repentance if we don't even know  that human beings have a spirit, eternal or not?

 

And how can we know that if we don't even know, don't even have a definition of the word?

 

Spirit:    What does the word actually mean?

 

 

 

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

For anybody who is curious, I'd be willing to bet Austin gained his understanding of logic from the following essay (which was the first listed on Google in answer to the question, "is logic the absolute standard of reason?"):

 

http://www.smallings.com/english/Essays/NatureOfLogic.html

 

I'll let y'all pick it apart at y'all's leisure.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

29 minutes ago, AustinAustin said:

I appreciate you sharing these things with me.

I didnt share them with you; I simply shared them.  If you took something away from my words, so much the better.

[Myrkhoos]

Ok first of all, "logic" , "matter" are words that define certain things, and should at first be precisely defined. For example, for one thing, "logic" is an a academic subject. And a domain of research. As such is is and was subject to change. Secondly, "matter" has , in modern physics, several ways of defining it, and work is still ongoing. There is no clearly finite way, finite as the one and only and eternal way to define it or talk about it. 

      In one post, Austin talks about logic as being causation. Causation is well, very "material". :)). A rock falls from a cliff and breaks a walnut. Prettu obvious to sense organs.

      If he is talking about patterns , because reality as we perceive it has patterns, that is not evidence for anything. Surely a topic worthy of investigation. We perceive patterns. Do patterns exist or does our conscioussness create them? Etc. Like if I see a tree, I have no idea who planted the tree. Maybe the wind. Maybe a duck that excreted the seed of an apple. Maybe a human. 

      Your "problem" cannot be solved because the question is not corect, in my opinion. It is as if I asked you " Find me a married bachelor, otherwise God is true"

     As for the Hell thing. Maybe Austin should renounce the trinity and jesus's Divinity, accept the Koran and Muhammad as God's final Messenger. Otherwise Hell awaits him. Or countless reincarnations if he refuses the teachings of the 24th Jina Mahavira. Or give offerings to the gods of the forests and trees of the Native Siberians. Or take a rock sauna with Dakota Indian shaman. Or....So many Hells to choose from. 

     If God is an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being I have nothing to fear anyway. That means evil doesn't exist. 

   That is my two cents.

 

[alreadyGone]

36 minutes ago, Myrkhoos said:

...Or countless reincarnations if he refuses the teachings of the 24th Jina Mahavira....

 

 

I don't know about the 24th Jina Mahavira.

 

The 22nd and the 23rd Jina Mahavira were pretty tough hombres though, so I'm leaving town.

[Astreja]

4 hours ago, AustinAustin said:

Did you know that you can't prove you exist?

 

Yes, and I don't care that I can't prove it.

 

As for "Satan," you're too old to have imaginary friends.  Grow up.

[Astreja]

4 hours ago, AustinAustin said:

Did you summon her, and she came to you at your beck and call?

 

No, I just cheered and waved at her.

[Astreja]

4 hours ago, AustinAustin said:

¹⁵ And if ^[e]anyone’s name was not found ^[f]written in the Book of Life, he was hurled into the lake of fire.

 

¹⁶ “For God so [greatly] loved and dearly prized the world, that He [even] gave His [One and] ^[a]only begotten Son, so that whoever believes and trusts in Him [as Savior] shall not perish, but have eternal life. 

 

 ¹⁸ Whoever believes and has decided to trust in Him [as personal Savior and Lord] is not judged [for this one, there is no judgment, no rejection, no condemnation]; but the one who does not believe [and has decided to reject Him as personal Savior and Lord] is judged already [that one has been convicted and sentenced], because ^[b]he has not believed and trusted in the name of the [One and] only begotten Son of God [the One who is truly unique, the only One of His kind, the One who alone can save him].

 

I fucking despise John 3:16.  I reject "Salvation" unconditionally.  I have no interest in eternal life, none at all, and I do not consent to anyone dying in my place for any reason whatsoever.

 

By the way, if Jesus did come back from the dead (which I think is arrant nonsense), it would automatically negate the so-called "sacrifice."  Real sacrifices stay dead.

[Joshpantera]

2 hours ago, AustinAustin said:

There is no evidence that humanity created logic. Logic is the absolute standard of reason -google it -your battle is now with science regarding this fact, not me. Logic does not change.

 

It was logical in the biblical writing period to think the world was created in 6 days. Illustrated by DB for you to consider. But that's not logical now. So many apologists try and interpret it some other way. Some modern way completely foreign to the biblical writers. What seemed logical then, is illogical now given all of the evidences that have since arisen. 

 

They thought it was logical to own slaves, kill homosexuals, treat women as property, brutally stone people to death, etc., etc.

 

At no time was any of this logic absolute or unchanging. All of the above are no longer considered logical to jews and christians now. They've diverged from the bronze logical of the biblical writings periods. 

 

And as already pointed out, the logic thinking mind is fairly new on the evolutionary scale. Built on top of instinctive reaction. It's in the process of development as we speak, not absolute. Opposite absolute. That's what the evidence reveals. 

 

Your battle is with the existing evidence Austin. And it's an up hill battle at that...

[Joshpantera]

1 hour ago, AustinAustin said:

Then refute the logic example...

 

 I have. So have many other members already. 

 

You have an emotional argument falsely asserted as a logical one. There's nothing remotely logical about your claims. This is like when an apologist came here a while back claiming that the particle - wave duality is evidence of god. Obviously it isn't. Nevertheless, he had convinced himself (emotionally) that it is. 

 

Example: 

 

Presents under the christmas tree are not evidence of the existence of Santa Claus. And neither is the existence of human philosophy and the logic that follows evidence of a supernatural god at all, let alone YWHW. 

 

[midniterider]

2 hours ago, AustinAustin said:

There is no evidence that humanity created logic. Logic is the absolute standard of reason -google it -your battle is now with science regarding this fact, not me. Logic does not change.

 

I googled it. The first result is some numbskull Roger Smalling who says basically the same nonsense that you have said in this thread. 

 

http://www.smallings.com/english/Essays/NatureOfLogic.html 

 

Logic is NOT a primordial reality nor is Roger Smalling the representative of science. It would appear he's just a minister somewhere confusing people who are easily led.

 

Maybe do your own thinking instead of relying on people like Roger. 

 

This isnt a battle, it's a debate. And the debate is with you. Stop making an assertion and then claiming (with no evidence) that the battle is with science. No it isnt. Neither scientists nor philosophers believe that logic is an entity. What  you have to say is not some scientific principle nor a scientific theory, postulate or law. 

 

You continue to repeat the same things over and over. I think you've exhausted your material. You speak a lot of logic but exhibit illogical thinking. 

 

I think you believe wholeheartedly what one person on the internet has told you about logic. Check out this link and see what a host of other people have said about logic, its origin,  how it works. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic

 

Btw, why do you tell us to google stuff when you wont even read any of our links? 

[alreadyGone]

2 hours ago, AustinAustin said:

This question is absolutley irrelevant if God does Exist, correct? ...

 

Not correct.

 

You can accurately say "a dog is an animal".

You cannot say "an animal is a dog".

 

Austin, to say "I do not have an answer to your question" is an honest response.

To evade the question by using deliberate obfuscation is not honest.

 

Do you have an honest answer to my question?

 

 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Starting to feel like a Nascar race lol.

[Astreja]

6 hours ago, AustinAustin said:

God died on the cross to pay for the sins of the entire world -He has given all of us salvation. He explains this in His Word, but many refuse Him.

We His Children want to be like our Father, and so we unselfishly are sent to reach you all, hoping none will go to Hell.

 

If your alleged god allows such a place as hell to exist, and allows people to be trapped there for eternity for any reason whatsoever, your god is infinitely evil.

 

Why do you worship an evil god, Austin?

[Astreja]

4 hours ago, AustinAustin said:

Please focus while there's still time. Your family may go to Hell because of your influence.

 

Fuck you and fuck the Holy Spirit too.

 

For uttering threats against us and our families in the name of your imaginary fiend, it is my heartfelt wish that you experience the total and irrevocable loss of your faith, so that one day you actually understand why we are ex-Christians.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

4 hours ago, AustinAustin said:

Remember, logic disappears with humanity if it's existence is dependent upon humanity, however, modus ponens would still be logical if humanity were gone -that proves humanity didn't invent logic and that it's existence isn't dependent upon humanity.

 

Then I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I do not see the logic in your logic. I'm done discussing it. 

 

[alreadyGone]

11 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

 

Then I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I do not see the logic in your logic. I'm done discussing it. 

 

 

Proves you're smarter than I... 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

16 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

 

Then I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I do not see the logic in your logic. I'm done discussing it. 

 

That would be the logical thing to do.

[alreadyGone]

1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

That would be the logical thing to do.

 

Live long and prosper.

[AustinAustin]

5 hours ago, Myrkhoos said:

Ok first of all, "logic" , "matter" are words that define certain things, and should at first be precisely defined. For example, for one thing, "logic" is an a academic subject. And a domain of research. As such is is and was subject to change. Secondly, "matter" has , in modern physics, several ways of defining it, and work is still ongoing. There is no clearly finite way, finite as the one and only and eternal way to define it or talk about it. 

      In one post, Austin talks about logic as being causation. Causation is well, very "material". :)). A rock falls from a cliff and breaks a walnut. Prettu obvious to sense organs.

      If he is talking about patterns , because reality as we perceive it has patterns, that is not evidence for anything. Surely a topic worthy of investigation. We perceive patterns. Do patterns exist or does our conscioussness create them? Etc. Like if I see a tree, I have no idea who planted the tree. Maybe the wind. Maybe a duck that excreted the seed of an apple. Maybe a human. 

      Your "problem" cannot be solved because the question is not corect, in my opinion. It is as if I asked you " Find me a married bachelor, otherwise God is true"

     As for the Hell thing. Maybe Austin should renounce the trinity and jesus's Divinity, accept the Koran and Muhammad as God's final Messenger. Otherwise Hell awaits him. Or countless reincarnations if he refuses the teachings of the 24th Jina Mahavira. Or give offerings to the gods of the forests and trees of the Native Siberians. Or take a rock sauna with Dakota Indian shaman. Or....So many Hells to choose from. 

     If God is an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being I have nothing to fear anyway. That means evil doesn't exist. 

   That is my two cents.

 

How is logic created? How was an absolute standard of reason created and instituted and why is that not proof of design?

[AustinAustin]

4 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

 

It was logical in the biblical writing period to think the world was created in 6 days. Illustrated by DB for you to consider. But that's not logical now. So many apologists try and interpret it some other way. Some modern way completely foreign to the biblical writers. What seemed logical then, is illogical now given all of the evidences that have since arisen. 

 

They thought it was logical to own slaves, kill homosexuals, treat women as property, brutally stone people to death, etc., etc.

 

At no time was any of this logic absolute or unchanging. All of the above are no longer considered logical to jews and christians now. They've diverged from the bronze logical of the biblical writings periods. 

 

And as already pointed out, the logic thinking mind is fairly new on the evolutionary scale. Built on top of instinctive reaction. It's in the process of development as we speak, not absolute. Opposite absolute. That's what the evidence reveals. 

 

Your battle is with the existing evidence Austin. And it's an up hill battle at that...

Josh if GOd is real then these things you mention fall into place... Please, refute the logic example if you can.

[AustinAustin]

2 hours ago, Astreja said:

 

If your alleged god allows such a place as hell to exist, and allows people to be trapped there for eternity for any reason whatsoever, your god is infinitely evil.

 

Why do you worship an evil god, Austin?

That is an argument against justice.

 

For justice to exist there must be punishment for lawbreaking...

[midniterider]

Logic is an evolving system of thought passed down from person to person. Smart people improve on it as time goes on. It was most definitely designed by people. 

 

Please tell us why logic is an absolute standard of reason. What do you mean by absolute standard of reason? 

 

Logic is fine and dandy for a lot of things but it certainly does not prove the existence of God. Logic is also often overridden by intuition. Sometimes logic will tell you something is just fine while your intuition is screaming "STOP!"

 

Logic is just one of a number of tools in your mental toolbox. Dont forget to use the rest of your tools. 

[midniterider]

14 minutes ago, AustinAustin said:

That is an argument against justice.

 

For justice to exist there must be punishment for lawbreaking...

 

There must be just laws and just penalties. Infinite punishment for the finite crime of not loving God is an INjustice. It's also INsane. Why do you worship a God personality who behaves in an insane manner? 

[Astreja]

21 minutes ago, AustinAustin said:

That is an argument against justice.

 

For justice to exist there must be punishment for lawbreaking...

 

It is not possible for a mortal human to do anything in a finite lifetime that would justify infinite punishment.  Punishment that exceeds the "crime" by infinite orders of magnitude is infinitely unjust.

 

Why do you worship an evil god, Austin?