Edgarcito Posted October 22, 2022 Author Share Posted October 22, 2022 Just now, walterpthefirst said: Ok, then. If you are happy to admit that Adam and Eve were incapable of moral choices before they ate the fruit? I'm suggesting they were subjected to experience.... which included moral and immoral choices. They chose a choice, apparently not the one God was hoping for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterpthefirst Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 5 minutes ago, Edgarcito said: The point is, God didn't tell them them He would punish them, but the result of their actions. Two totally different approaches. Regardless of how they would die. Please answer the question. When the rattlesnake comes into your garden and bites your child, is it the child's fault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted October 22, 2022 Author Share Posted October 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, walterpthefirst said: No, mwc didn't speculate. He observed what was in text. Doing that is not speculation. Ok, meaning that he saw something that I hadn't? I only made the connection the other day that man was created from what we know as "logical" dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ DarkBishop ☆ Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 25 minutes ago, Edgarcito said: That's not what it says. it didn't say, if you eat this one I will kill you. It says if you eat this one you will surely die. Thats a good point. Maybe he should have. Because ultimately the punishment is up to God. It could have been a lighter punishment. But no it was death. But on top of that he cursed both the man and the woman which wasn't included in the initial command. He didn't say if you eat it you will die and I'm going to curse you with the hardest life I possibly can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterpthefirst Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 Just now, Edgarcito said: I'm suggesting they were subjected to experience.... which included moral and immoral choices. They chose a choice, apparently not the one God was hoping for. Then your suggestion is un-biblical. Today you are flip-flopping between sticking to what the text says and suggesting what it doesn't. Which is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ DarkBishop ☆ Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 Here I thought we were going to play a game @Edgarcito. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterpthefirst Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 1 minute ago, Edgarcito said: Ok, meaning that he saw something that I hadn't? I only made the connection the other day that man was created from what we know as "logical" dust. Yes, he saw something that was actually in the text. Whereas dust has no textual connection to logic. That is an idea born of your imagination, not born of what the text actually says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted October 22, 2022 Author Share Posted October 22, 2022 1 minute ago, walterpthefirst said: Please answer the question. When the rattlesnake comes into your garden and bites your child, is it the child's fault? You're suggesting faith and logic are synonymous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterpthefirst Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 Just now, Edgarcito said: You're suggesting faith and logic are synonymous? Just answer the question that was put to you rather than substituting one of your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted October 22, 2022 Author Share Posted October 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, walterpthefirst said: Yes, he saw something that was actually in the text. Whereas dust has no textual connection to logic. That is an idea born of your imagination, not born of what the text actually says. No, that's an idea born of my scientific knowledge and Biblical understanding, my experience. Created from dust is in the text. You're suggesting that my Biblical interpretation should only come through the scientific process. A can only move to B if the text allows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterpthefirst Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 9 minutes ago, Edgarcito said: No, that's an idea born of my scientific knowledge and Biblical understanding, my experience. Created from dust is in the text. You're suggesting that my Biblical interpretation should only come through the scientific process. A can only move to B if the text allows? I'm holding to the same line I've taken in our many discussions about science and the bible. That the two do not correspond or overlap in any way. And no, I'm not suggesting what you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterpthefirst Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 9 minutes ago, walterpthefirst said: Just answer the question that was put to you rather than substituting one of your own. Bump! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted October 22, 2022 Author Share Posted October 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, walterpthefirst said: Just answer the question that was put to you rather than substituting one of your own. I guess it's perspective. As I was saying the other day. If our experience of joy had the same appreciation as does our appreciation of hardship and pain, maybe we would select for joy. It's wonderful when it happens, but not regularly enough that it sways many people. God, imo, gives us the added instruction that we might select for faith as the next result is not just death but something potentially worse. I'm opting for the faith selection myself. Logically, it appears God is an ass for allowing the process, but it's his creation. And I particularly thing the periodic glimpses of Heaven are far superior to my pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted October 22, 2022 Author Share Posted October 22, 2022 I've got many more things on my list today. Likely will be tomorrow. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterpthefirst Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 Just now, Edgarcito said: I guess it's perspective. As I was saying the other day. If our experience of joy had the same appreciation as does our appreciation of hardship and pain, maybe we would select for joy. It's wonderful when it happens, but not regularly enough that it sways many people. God, imo, gives us the added instruction that we might select for faith as the next result is not just death but something potentially worse. I'm opting for the faith selection myself. Logically, it appears God is an ass for allowing the process, but it's his creation. And I particularly thing the periodic glimpses of Heaven are far superior to my pain. Now answer the question properly. When the rattlesnake comes into your garden and bites your child, is it the child's fault? Please declare whether or not it is the child's fault that the snake bit them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted October 22, 2022 Super Moderator Share Posted October 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Edgarcito said: When Eve saw A and B and C, she chose and acted. Looks very much like logic imo. Yes, but you have a demonstrated lack of understanding concerning how logic works, as was evidenced by the experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted October 22, 2022 Super Moderator Share Posted October 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Edgarcito said: But when I suggest something, rude, heretical, half-ass Christian. Thx. I am fairly certain everyone here, except for you, understands the difference between speculating on ancient myths purely for entertainment purposes, versus basing your entire worldview on speculations about ancient myths because actual knowledge is limited (and hard). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted October 22, 2022 Super Moderator Share Posted October 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Edgarcito said: I'm not sure that's correct. There's epigenetics and likely studies that suggest otherwise. Can you cite one such study, so that we have access to the same information as you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted October 22, 2022 Author Share Posted October 22, 2022 7 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: I am fairly certain everyone here, except for you, understands the difference between speculating on ancient myths purely for entertainment purposes, versus basing your entire worldview on speculations about ancient myths because actual knowledge is limited (and hard). Right… freedom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted October 22, 2022 Author Share Posted October 22, 2022 Hey Prof, if logic works so well, why don’t you and all the gang here come up with the same answers for the interpretation. Should be really straightforward y’all knowing how it works and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ DarkBishop ☆ Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Edgarcito said: Logically, it appears God is an ass for allowing the process, but it's his creation Well there it is @TheRedneckProfessor. Logically it appears God is an ass. But it is his creation. So God is allowed to be evil, to let children be sex slaves, to lie, deny his "children" the promises he had written down in his Holy Word because it is his creation. He can do what he wants because he has all the power. So Ed is cool with whatever he does. Just as long as he makes it to heaven. DB Its settled. God is evil and its ok because he created everything. Let's move on and play a game. Or was there ever a game to be played Ed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted October 22, 2022 Super Moderator Share Posted October 22, 2022 19 minutes ago, Edgarcito said: Hey Prof, if logic works so well, why don’t you and all the gang here come up with the same answers for the interpretation. Should be really straightforward y’all knowing how it works and all. Because, as we already demonstrated, logic is not an absolute. Now, tell me this, Ed: If faith works so well, why don't you and the other 40,000+ denominations come up with the same answers for the interpretation? Should be really straightforward, y'all having the holy ghost and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted October 22, 2022 Super Moderator Share Posted October 22, 2022 32 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: I am fairly certain everyone here, except for you, understands the difference between speculating on ancient myths purely for entertainment purposes, versus basing your entire worldview on speculations about ancient myths because actual knowledge is limited (and hard). 25 minutes ago, Edgarcito said: Right… freedom Yes, you're free to base you life on speculations about ancient myths instead of knowledge, if that's what you want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted October 22, 2022 Author Share Posted October 22, 2022 8 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: Because, as we already demonstrated, logic is not an absolute. Now, tell me this, Ed: If faith works so well, why don't you and the other 40,000+ denominations come up with the same answers for the interpretation? Should be really straightforward, y'all having the holy ghost and all. We’ve discussed that previously… each is an individual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
☆ DarkBishop ☆ Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 Maybe this is the game. For Ed's amusement only. @Edgarcito You should really understand our frustration when it comes to you spouting your own "interpretations" of the Bible. We do that with every Christian that comes in here that goes into unbiblical excuses of why the Bible is still true. Just feel blessed knowing we are equal opportunity deniers of the faith. DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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