God's Critics Helped Me Out

[Adam5]

Adam5: Hi Thumbelina, 4 years on and off with the "unequally yoked" and you havent deconvered yet? I am suprised by this.

 

I'm grateful to the folk around here as they helped buttress my faith. I also got to see how hurt, nice & funny some unbelievers can be.

 

Hello again, yes there are some nice people here and there are some funny people too.  They have tested your faith. I know this can be tough. But I thought Christians werent supposed to mix with the unwashed

 

"Do not be unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and lawlessness have in common? What fellowship has light with darkness"

 

In Paul's day it was the same problem: Christ crucified is "foolishness to Gentiles." Its the same today. Once you are taken off the God glasses, you think "what nonsnense.  How can I have believed this stuff?"

[RipVanWinkle]

"No He is not. Faith comes by hearing & hearing by the Word of God." Thumbelina

 

Damn. If I had just read the bible during all that time god would have heard me  Oh wait. I did.   bill

[thereisnoperfect]

 

 

 

"Saying God doesn't exist is worse than criticizing Him. In essence, I'm

mitigating the offense"  Thumbelina

 

 

Is your god an egomaniac? If I don't believe in him after 45+years of good faith effort and if he is a good, forgiving god as you say, 

why doe he not make himself known to me? After all, most of my life I have tried to make myself known to him. How about some reciprocity?  bill

 

 

 

No He is not. Faith comes by hearing & hearing by the Word of God. In my debates with unbelievers I

observed that they have a wrong concept of God. They were taught that God is basically a tyrant; if

that was the type of God presented to me I won't believe in Him either. When I read the bible I see a

wonderful, merciful savior who loves us tremendously. Sorry you did not see or experience that.

 

I did see all of that. And even as my faith evolved, I stubbornly clung to the idea of god as purely good, purely loving. It's still the concept I sometimes label as "god," though I admit I have no evidence that such a being actually exists, and most of the time I'm pretty sure that's just a useful mental concept, not anything that really exists in the actual universe.

 

So if your underlying assumption is that everyone here is an ex-christian only because they were presented with an image of god that's unloving, it's my job to correct you. I filtered the Bible through that lens of god as the "wonderful, merciful savior who loves us tremendously," and that's what I saw. 

 

But it didn't line up well with a lot of the bible or with the rest of my experience. And then I realized that the idea of original sin was insupportable, so there was nothing inherently bad about us and nothing we should need saving from. 

 

Please don't assume that the people here just haven't heard the right version of Christianity or haven't read the Bible carefully or haven't read it "right." I'm pretty sure I can trump you on any of those counts.

 

 

No you cant, Tinp.

 

If you don't agree to agree with Thumbelina, then you are spiritually blind and cannot see the truth she sees.

Therefore, whatever you believe that doesn't line up with her beliefs... is wrong.

 

Please adjust your beliefs accordingly and bring yourself into line with her.

Then you will know the truth and see God as he really is... a wonderful and loving savior and Lord.

 

Oh.

 

In that case, I think REO can speak for us:

That Ain't Love

[xtify]

When I read the bible I see a wonderful, merciful savior who loves us tremendously. Sorry you did not see or experience that.

 

 

Sorry you can't read!  

 

See, I can be insincere too.

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

No He is not. Faith comes by hearing & hearing by the Word of God.

 

 

I've found that faith comes by being ignorant and refusing to reach one's own conclusions about certain subjects, opposed to the conclusions that one is told are the "correct conclusions" when reading the Bible or any other religious texts.

 

 

In my debates with unbelievers I

observed that they have a wrong concept of God. They were taught that God is basically a tyrant; if

that was the type of God presented to me I won't believe in Him either.

 

I really don't understand why you think the concept of your god being a tyrant is "wrong". He certainly behaves like a tyrant in the Bible.

 

When I was a believer, I was certainly not taught that "God" was a tyrant. I was taught that he was this:

 

a

wonderful, merciful savior who loves us tremendously.

 

 

I came to the conclusion that "God" was a tyrant on my own, after realizing that his behavior in the Bible does not fit in with the concept of a "wonderful, merciful savior", but in fact defines the concept of a cruel, narcissistic, insecure tyrant who needs to kill something every time someone looks at him funny.

 

 

Sorry you did not see or experience that.

 

 

At one time, I believed that he was a "wonderful, merciful savior" and I even deluded myself into thinking that I was experiencing his love, when what I was actually experiencing was the effects of placebo and wishful thinking. It was only after I realized for myself what kind of a deity "God" actually was that the experience and self-deceit ended.

 

Just sayin'.

[francesco]

 

I don't know thumb since I'm quiet new here

but if I may ask you one question

why it seems like christian's core of faith are the book called bible and the list of rules, doctrines and dogmas instead of Jesus' way of life itself?

I've often wondered that myself.  jesus said if you want salvation you should sell your possessions and give to the poor; so why do christians always vote republican?  jesus said if you want to follow him you have to hate your family; so why are christians always so concerned about family values?

 

I could go on like this all day...

 

well, it's not in that sense though

what I mean is simply why just because she read the book called bible and called herself christian she is suddenly have the secret information/authority to say that others are wrong and I'm the right one, you never had the right understanding, you never had the real relationship, and other cliche excuses

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

 

I don't know thumb since I'm quiet new here

but if I may ask you one question

why it seems like christian's core of faith are the book called bible and the list of rules, doctrines and dogmas instead of Jesus' way of life itself?

I've often wondered that myself.  jesus said if you want salvation you should sell your possessions and give to the poor; so why do christians always vote republican?  jesus said if you want to follow him you have to hate your family; so why are christians always so concerned about family values?

 

I could go on like this all day...

 

well, it's not in that sense though

what I mean is simply why just because she read the book called bible and called herself christian she is suddenly have the secret information/authority to say that others are wrong and I'm the right one, you never had the right understanding, you never had the real relationship, and other cliche excuses

 

Oh, well that is because she has the holy spirit dwelling inside of her and giving her the correct information and the proper interpretation of the bible... just like I did.

[sdelsolray]

A special frame of reference or knowledge is a common fantasy of many theists.  It appears likely that this and similar delusions are formed and maintained to allow the believer to self-medicate the cognitive dissonance from which they suffer.  In some cases, where the believer has clinical grandiosity or narcissism, it feeds those emotional dysfunctions.

[RipVanWinkle]

"Saying God doesn't exist is worse than criticizing Him. In essence, I'm
mitigating the offense"  Thumbelina

 

 

Sorry for my being a little slow on the uptake, ( I was so surprised that you thought we were criticizing a real bible god rather than the myth) but I missed the substance of your post quoted above. You are telling us that you think it is worse to not believe in the bible god's existence than to believe in him and criticize him?

 

One cannot believe in your god when there is no evidence to support the belief. And he never answered any of my prayers which were in the thousands. And he never gave me any reason to believe that he was receiving my prayers, even though my pleas were as sincere and honest as possible, and even though I never asked for anything from him except to know him and do his will. And even though all of my other requests were for other people, not myself. Nobody could have wanted him to acknowledge me any more passionately. So  over years I came to the only conclusion I could reasonably make under the circumstances. He might not exist. But i didn't give up.

 

I spent years studying christian history, apologetics , bible history and other related subjects. Nothing that made sense supported a logical conclusion that Xtianity was true.

 

So that is, to your mind, worse than somehow forcing myself to believe in god and criticize him by asking: Why he commanded the Jews to show no mercy to its enemies, to kill every man, woman (pregnant or not), child and animal of the enemy who had done them no wrong?And in some cases allow the Jews to save the virgins for themselves, whether the virgins consented or not? And to ask why god permitted the Jew to have slaves and to kill them in undeserved circumstances? And why he allowed one of his prophets to command a bunch of she bears to slaughter 40 or 50 little children for nothing but their acting childish? 

 

And why would god, who is omniscient. omnipotent, omnipresent, etc., create humans knowing that the vast majority of them would not meet his standards and then send them to the "lake of fire" for eternity? Why create humans at all under those conditions?

 

Why label all humanity as being sinful as a result of the minor infraction of one man and one woman, when he knew they would commit that sin? Why should that sin be imposed on all of mankind?

 

There is virtually no end to these serious questions? Some say free will is the answer. What kind of free will is it for mankind to be told, if you don't believe in Jesus a savior, you will burn for eternity, when that belief would be in violation of all natural laws known to mankind? And unsubstantiated by history? The bible said in Jeremiah (don't remember the specific citation) that god would write his laws on his chosen people's hearts and souls so that they could not violate them?. Why did he not likewise write the belief in Jesus in mankind's hearts and minds rather than torture them for eternity? 

 

If these questions should not be asked, then there is no basis to say we have "free will" because we can't ask the questions of god that either  would or would not justify our belief in Jesus. We would be robots.

 

If you don't post an answer to this, I will understand.   bill

 

(Sorry guys. I had to get this off my chest--again.)

[Mudhoney]

Welcome back! Now go away.

[duderonomy]

Miley stops by to twerk, and look what happens. Three pages. I eagerly await her next release.

 

Other than saying that, I'm with Mudhoney on this one.

[Thumbelina]

 

I'm having trouble posting. This is in response to this post: http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/61373-gods-critics-helped-me-out/?p=932271

 

 

 

 

Caveat: I used some scripture in my replies just so you can see I'm not pulling teachings out of thin air. For those who hate the scripture you have the option to ignore what I write

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're misunderstanding what I said; God hates sin but He loves grace & mercy & Christians ought to too (Romans 5:20; James 2:13).

Please permit me to explain? You're right, in that, though anger and judgment do often work in tandem, anger isn't a necessary component of judgment. God's wrath is different to man's wrath. God's wrath is consequential as He hates sin & is a just judge. Man's wrath tends to be vindictive. Christians are taught to judge/condemn nothing before the time (even the devils in the biblical narrative in Matthew 8:29 knew there would be a specific time for judgment) because God knows everything whereas we only see in part (1 Cor. 4:5; 1 Cor. 13:12).

Also, your saying "Judge not lest ye be judged." is calling for Christians to virtually mitigate offenses. We are called to love enemies etc. We were all God's enemies (Romans 5:10) & He didn't zap us. Christians ought to emulate that. We are not to treat enemies (those that are actually wrong) as they deserve to be treated.

 

Big picture?

God's Word gives enough info to make people wise unto salvation. It shows God's character will be vindicated & the saints will reign with Him.

It also shows that pain & suffering will exist no longer.

 

 

The only people capable of loving God are people who understand His character, says the bible & says my personal experience. So it's your experience against my experience

 

 

You're right the big picture encompasses everyone; God did not come to save the righteous (there is NONE righteous) but to call everyone to repentance.

 

 

I have read testimonies on here & many people said that certain Christian teachings about God & His requirements caused them psychological harm. Each ex Christian is an individual & should not all be lumped into one group. There are people of different temperaments on here.

 

The bible says Christians ought to obey God rather than man therefore it's God's call, He places people & individuals on my heart

[Thumbelina]

 

 

"Saying God doesn't exist is worse than criticizing Him. In essence, I'm

mitigating the offense"  Thumbelina

 

 

Is your god an egomaniac? If I don't believe in him after 45+years of good faith effort and if he is a good, forgiving god as you say, 

why doe he not make himself known to me? After all, most of my life I have tried to make myself known to him. How about some reciprocity?  bill

 

 

 

No He is not. Faith comes by hearing & hearing by the Word of God. In my debates with unbelievers I

observed that they have a wrong concept of God. They were taught that God is basically a tyrant; if

that was the type of God presented to me I won't believe in Him either. When I read the bible I see a

wonderful, merciful savior who loves us tremendously. Sorry you did not see or experience that.

 

I call bullshit.  I was taught that god was a loving and kind father.  I was taught that god so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son that whoever believed in him would not perish but have eternal life.  I was taught that god was merciful, patient, long-suffering, never envious, never jealous, always leaving the ninety-nine to go after the one. 

 

I heard, and I heard by the word of god.  I had more faith in my pinkie toe than most christians have in their entire body.

 

But like bill, when I needed god in my darkest hour of despair, he was not there.  That is when I finally learned the true nature of your god.  he wants the praise and adoration, but he doesn't want to put forth the effort to earn it.  If your god was all he's cracked up to be, this website would not exist.

 

Again, despite the people here having a place in your heart or whatever, you still don't understand a single one of them like you think you do.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry you believe that God has let you down. It's human nature to shut down or recoil from others who hurt us, whether real or imagined. I still do it to my Jesus when He doesn't answer my prayers the way I want them answered or when trials come but I realize that He's with me through it all. I tend to go back to Him & we resume our relationship. My best time with God has been through some of the toughest times I've had & He did not take away my trial, He comforted me through it. God wants me to trust Him, not for His own benefit but for mine; He's selfless.

 

 

 

 

 

Like you, I was taught about God & read about Him but it's experiential faith that's drawing me closer to Him. Now I can identify with the experiences of some of the hymn writers; the songs are just not pleasant music, I had the EXPERIENCE & it's wonderful.

Understanding how someone feels does not mean you have to agree with them. A woman wanting to kill her rapist is understandable but that does not mean I agree with her; I believe she should not take the law into her own hands.

[Thumbelina]

This is why (again) there can be no meaningful dialog. People like Thumby must believe that a person can be mad at God, hate God, or simply not understand God properly. They cannot possibly even entertain the idea that a thinking person might find no reason to believe that their deity actually exists. It is the ultimate impasse to any exchange of ideas.

 

Yes, Pops, we do tend to talk past each other.

[Thumbelina]

 

 

"Saying God doesn't exist is worse than criticizing Him. In essence, I'm

mitigating the offense"  Thumbelina

 

 

Is your god an egomaniac? If I don't believe in him after 45+years of good faith effort and if he is a good, forgiving god as you say, 

why doe he not make himself known to me? After all, most of my life I have tried to make myself known to him. How about some reciprocity?  bill

 

 

 

No He is not. Faith comes by hearing & hearing by the Word of God. In my debates with unbelievers I

observed that they have a wrong concept of God. They were taught that God is basically a tyrant; if

that was the type of God presented to me I won't believe in Him either. When I read the bible I see a

wonderful, merciful savior who loves us tremendously. Sorry you did not see or experience that.

 

I did see all of that. And even as my faith evolved, I stubbornly clung to the idea of god as purely good, purely loving. It's still the concept I sometimes label as "god," though I admit I have no evidence that such a being actually exists, and most of the time I'm pretty sure that's just a useful mental concept, not anything that really exists in the actual universe.

 

So if your underlying assumption is that everyone here is an ex-christian only because they were presented with an image of god that's unloving, it's my job to correct you. I filtered the Bible through that lens of god as the "wonderful, merciful savior who loves us tremendously," and that's what I saw. 

 

But it didn't line up well with a lot of the bible or with the rest of my experience. And then I realized that the idea of original sin was insupportable, so there was nothing inherently bad about us and nothing we should need saving from. 

 

Please don't assume that the people here just haven't heard the right version of Christianity or haven't read the Bible carefully or haven't read it "right." I'm pretty sure I can trump you on any of those counts.

 

There is no perfect what?

 

I don't lump everyone into one category but I do see many that recoiled from God because they eventually perceived Him to be uncaring, unloving & vengeful. You filtered the bible like that but there is also a part of God's character that has to mete out punishment, the bible calls it a strange act (Isaiah 28:21). We die, my friend, we need to be recued from death; Christianity claims that their God can rescue people from death/non existence. Without revelation people cast off restraint (Proverbs 29:18); we know that happened during the French Revolution & they HAD to put God back on the throne or else ...

[Thumbelina]

Hello Thumbelina, good to finally meet you.  I joined this forum less than a year ago and haven't had much (if any) interaction with you thus far.  But the offence you cause my fellow ex-christians is legendary, and I've heard many things about you.  Here's a question for you, or rather an invitation to comment.

 

 

 

Saying God doesn't exist is worse than criticizing Him. In essence, I'm

mitigating the offense

 

I believe in God, but not Jesus.  In fact I believe Jesus is both a false messiah and a false god.  The only offense the cross causes me is that Jesus wasn't stoned to death by the Jews as he deserved (see Deuteronomy 13).  I find that most Christian apologists think in terms of a Christian/atheist dichotomy, and don't know what to do with theistic Jesus-haters.  Your thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

Glad to meet you too, Bhim. I did not intend to be offensive to the people here & I believe they realize that which is why I am tolerated. I can't fathom why folk would hate Jesus but when I think about theistic Jesus-haters I think mainly of the Jews. I know that there are huge misconceptions & I pray for the day that the Jews can see Jesus lifted up within Christianity & they will be drawn to Him. We all can then embrace each other. So, I don't know much about theistic Jesus-haters but I recently learned a thing or two from some Christian Jews. I learned in the OT the Israelites were obedient to God more times than they were disobedient but you know human nature, we tend to focus on the bad more than the good.

[Thumbelina]

Under the spell of Christian brainwashing, the god of the Bible is portrayed and perceived as the fuzzy bunny. A dispassionate examination of evidence portrays that character as also having an incredibly cruel and brutal side. A large part of the Christian apologetics industry is focused on spinning the unchanging Old Testament deity's acts of cruelty into necessary actions done out of love and the need to move the plot along so we can get to the Jesus part. This whole Christianity business grows entirely out of what is assumed to be the Word of God, though with even a little scholarship one can find quite human and sometimes nefarious history of those ancient writings.

 

Non-Christians who have given it any thought don't not believe in the Christian/Hebrew god because he is cruel and capricious. They do not believe he exists because there is no evidence to support such a belief.

 

 

The book of Revelation is full of wrath.

[Thumbelina]

 

Why are there so many locked threads?

 

 

The reason there are so many more locked threads is that they are now automatically locked after 30 days of inactivity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for enlightening me.

[Thumbelina]

 

 

"Saying God doesn't exist is worse than criticizing Him. In essence, I'm

mitigating the offense"  Thumbelina

 

 

Is your god an egomaniac? If I don't believe in him after 45+years of good faith effort and if he is a good, forgiving god as you say, 

why doe he not make himself known to me? After all, most of my life I have tried to make myself known to him. How about some reciprocity?  bill

 

 

 

No He is not. Faith comes by hearing & hearing by the Word of God. In my debates with unbelievers I

observed that they have a wrong concept of God. They were taught that God is basically a tyrant; if

that was the type of God presented to me I won't believe in Him either. When I read the bible I see a

wonderful, merciful savior who loves us tremendously. Sorry you did not see or experience that.

 

Hi Thumb, we've been around the mulberry bush many a time now. In your own words, you are cherry picking! You are also failing to follow doctrines throughout the Bible. Just sayin'.

 

Heh heh

 

 

 

Hey, you're civilized so why you actin' up, huh?

[Thumbelina]

 

 

"Saying God doesn't exist is worse than criticizing Him. In essence, I'm

mitigating the offense"  Thumbelina

 

 

Is your god an egomaniac? If I don't believe in him after 45+years of good faith effort and if he is a good, forgiving god as you say, 

why doe he not make himself known to me? After all, most of my life I have tried to make myself known to him. How about some reciprocity?  bill

 

 

 

No He is not. Faith comes by hearing & hearing by the Word of God. In my debates with unbelievers I

observed that they have a wrong concept of God. They were taught that God is basically a tyrant; if

that was the type of God presented to me I won't believe in Him either. When I read the bible I see a

wonderful, merciful savior who loves us tremendously. Sorry you did not see or experience that.

 

 

Hugs Thumb. Faith is fine for those who want to live by faith. I'd rather the almighty appear in person though. Anything short of that means he dont exist. IMO.

 

 

 

Hello midnite. I get hugs? Thanks for showing some love. The almighty showed up in the OT & in the NT in human form & some folks still rebelled. It's really about understanding God's law which shows His character & people who have perpetual listening hearts will see how selfless & loving He is.

[Thumbelina]

 

This is another one that is not worth the time.  

 

On the other hand, if you wish to observe anecdotal examples of how one particular narcissistic and disingenuous theist acts, observe Thumbelina.

 

I've got nothing better to do with my time this evening.  Why not?

 

Under the spell of Christian brainwashing, the god of the Bible is portrayed and perceived as the fuzzy bunny. A dispassionate examination of evidence portrays that character as also having an incredibly cruel and brutal side. A large part of the Christian apologetics industry is focused on spinning the unchanging Old Testament deity's acts of cruelty into necessary actions done out of love and the need to move the plot along so we can get to the Jesus part. This whole Christianity business grows entirely out of what is assumed to be the Word of God, though with even a little scholarship one can find quite human and sometimes nefarious history of those ancient writings.

 

Non-Christians who have given it any thought don't not believe in the Christian/Hebrew god because he is cruel and capricious. They do not believe he exists because there is no evidence to support such a belief.

 

It's actually not the Old Testament I have a problem with, it's the New!  Say what you want about the Old Testament God, but the one thing he doesn't do is send you to eternal hell.  Smitings, genocides, and pretty much anything else the Old Testament God can dish out are  far cry from the eternal conscious torment that Jesus offers.  As far as I'm concerned the Old Testament God isn't so bad, but Jesus is a lying bastard (literally) who claimed to be his messenger.

 

 

 

 

Only an evil tyrant will send his children to eternal hell. Please stop taking the parables & idioms that Jesus used for word play with those snooty, smart Alecky Scribes & Pharisees in a literal sense.

[Thumbelina]

 

 

This is another one that is not worth the time.  

 

On the other hand, if you wish to observe anecdotal examples of how one particular narcissistic and disingenuous theist acts, observe Thumbelina.

 

I've got nothing better to do with my time this evening.  Why not?

 

The entertainment value is higher than average with Thumbelina.  Have fun!

 

 

 

 

Jesus wants to enter your lion's heart & turn it into a sheep's heart

[Thumbelina]

" Faith comes by hearing & hearing by the Word of God. In my debates with unbelievers I

observed that they have a wrong concept of God. They were taught that God is basically a tyrant; if

that was the type of God presented to me I won't believe in Him either. When I read the bible I see a

wonderful, merciful savior who loves us tremendously. Sorry you did not see or experience that."

 

How can you have been on this site as long as you have and not understand what have been saying? I challenge you to find posts here in which exchristians said that they were taught by their church or by fellow christians  that god is a tyrant. Every post I've seen says they were taught just the opposite and that it was only after reading, and learning history and much soul searching that they realized that the god of the bible was indeed a tyrant, which was against everything they had been taught. I am absolutely perplexed as to how you could be so completely wrong. What it indicates is that you were not really listening. Now that does not surprise me, but to the extent of your non-attention  does.  Apparently, our posts did not match up with your playbook.    Wow!   bill

 

 

 

 

Again I say, teaching that God will torture people for eternity is indeed teaching folks (many times it's unintentional; they're just not thinking) that God is a tyrant. If God is just then why would an unrepentant petty thief who died in 1900 burn for longer than Adolf Hitler & why would a just God burn even finite Hitler for eternity?

[florduh]

 

 

 

The book of Revelation is full of wrath.

 

I know. Revelation was the last thing I studied at Moody. How is this relevant to the subject at hand? I mean, I explain that the described nature of your god is irrelevant to whether or not there is evidence for his existence and you trot out a book that also lacks credibility. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

 

 

"Saying God doesn't exist is worse than criticizing Him. In essence, I'm

mitigating the offense"  Thumbelina

 

 

Is your god an egomaniac? If I don't believe in him after 45+years of good faith effort and if he is a good, forgiving god as you say, 

why doe he not make himself known to me? After all, most of my life I have tried to make myself known to him. How about some reciprocity?  bill

 

 

 

No He is not. Faith comes by hearing & hearing by the Word of God. In my debates with unbelievers I

observed that they have a wrong concept of God. They were taught that God is basically a tyrant; if

that was the type of God presented to me I won't believe in Him either. When I read the bible I see a

wonderful, merciful savior who loves us tremendously. Sorry you did not see or experience that.

 

I call bullshit.  I was taught that god was a loving and kind father.  I was taught that god so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son that whoever believed in him would not perish but have eternal life.  I was taught that god was merciful, patient, long-suffering, never envious, never jealous, always leaving the ninety-nine to go after the one. 

 

I heard, and I heard by the word of god.  I had more faith in my pinkie toe than most christians have in their entire body.

 

But like bill, when I needed god in my darkest hour of despair, he was not there.  That is when I finally learned the true nature of your god.  he wants the praise and adoration, but he doesn't want to put forth the effort to earn it.  If your god was all he's cracked up to be, this website would not exist.

 

Again, despite the people here having a place in your heart or whatever, you still don't understand a single one of them like you think you do.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry you believe that God has let you down. It's human nature to shut down or recoil from others who hurt us, whether real or imagined. I still do it to my Jesus when He doesn't answer my prayers the way I want them answered or when trials come but I realize that He's with me through it all. I tend to go back to Him & we resume our relationship. My best time with God has been through some of the toughest times I've had & He did not take away my trial, He comforted me through it. God wants me to trust Him, not for His own benefit but for mine; He's selfless.

 

 

 

 

 

Like you, I was taught about God & read about Him but it's experiential faith that's drawing me closer to Him. Now I can identify with the experiences of some of the hymn writers; the songs are just not pleasant music, I had the EXPERIENCE & it's wonderful.

Understanding how someone feels does not mean you have to agree with them. A woman wanting to kill her rapist is understandable but that does not mean I agree with her; I believe she should not take the law into her own hands.

 

I never said anything about god letting me down.  What I said was that I realized he was not there.  Your god cannot let anyone down because your god does not exist outside of your own imagination.  Are we clear now?

 

Also, before we go any further, you need to know that I will not respond to your blatant attempts at proselytizing.  I was raised in church, attended a christian school, went to a christian college.  I have heard every kind of "witness" there is.  You have nothing new to offer me, so cut it out.  It's just a waste of your time.

 

Lastly, if you were raped, you might agree with the woman in your example, so you should be so quick to speak to situations you've never been in before.