God's Critics Helped Me Out

[bornagainathiest]

I'm really curious, is Thumbelina an SDA (7th day Adventist)?  Because virtually every single SDA is taught to believe in the literal 7 day creation.  If she is, I'm going to go grab some popcorn.

 

She won't say, Roz.

 

She's been asked over and over if she's an SDA, but she won't declare her hand.  As an ex-SDA could you tell us?  Is this stonewall refusal to answer direct questions typical of SDA behavior, Roz? 

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Re: the 7 day literalism...

Why do you think I've posted that vid about Linde's predictions being confirmed by the data?   

If the universe really was made in just 7 days, why do our telescopes keep telling us that it wasn't?  If God breathed it all into existence, less than 10,000 years ago, how can a mere human being predict that everything originated 13.82 billion years ago ...and then have his prediction confirmed by the data? 

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But if I know Thumby she'll just say that everyone who doesn't agree with scripture is being deceived by ole luci...aka, Satan.

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Hebrews 11 : 1 - 3, NIV.

Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

² This is what the ancients were commended for.

³ By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

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See that, Roz?

Thumbelina doesn't need to see any facts, data or evidence about how the universe was formed - she just needs to have faith that the Bible is true.   She understands BY FAITH how the universe was formed.  She doesn't need to see any facts, data or evidence.  By faith ALONE she understands that it all happened exactly the way scripture says it did. 

 

The Bible proves itself!  (You'll be hearing a lot of that, trust me!)

[Roz]

Here's what I've been taught as an SDA.  SDA's prophet, Ellen White, actually had a vision where she saw the literal 7 day creation taking shape.  Let's pause here for a few minutes while you try and contain your laughter.  Trust me I'm laughing too, it's sad I actually believed this.

 

From the ellen white estate:

http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/genesis.html

 

The prophet's own writing (which SDAs believe to be as inspired as the authors of the bible)

 

 

I was then carried back to the creation and was shown that the first week, in which god performed the work of creation in six days and rested on the seventh day, was just like every other week.

 

If you can, google the words "Adventist explore god's creation" "explore god's world" and you'll see the SDA textbooks I used while growing up.  Creation's drilled into our heads from a very young age, so most Adventists never get over that. 

[Roz]

If Thumb can deny that Ellen White was a prophet of god, then I would say that's tantamount to a Christian saying "I deny the holy spirit."

 

EDIT:  Just browsed through some of Thumbelina's other posts.  She believes in annihilationism.  No burning forever and ever in Hell.  If I were to go by these two alone, I would bet on her being SDA.  If she however once admitted the following, then I would double up on that bet.

 

• Saturday is the Sabbath and Christians should worship on that day (pretty much bang on SDA)
• That Christ right now is in the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary doing "investigative judgment"
• Jesus will come without a rapture, but like Tony Stark only much more narcissistic, saying "surprise!  all those who worship me will be with me for 1000 years, the evil living dies, and satan and his angels are bound to earth for 1000 years!"

To Thumb, if you're reading this.  What do you think of Doug Batchelor? 

[midniterider]

Hi Thumbelina,  

 

I am a noob here so forgive me if you've addressed this in another thread.

 

You use lots of Scripture to support your views.  How much have you looked into the origins of Scripture - the process by which it was written and canonized?  To me, that's been very important - seeing all the history and politics that are involved in passing down those words over history.  It seems very organic, messy, and most of all human.  What is your basis for believing in the authority of Scripture, or disbelieving in the authority of other sacred texts such as the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita?  There are books that say all kinds of things that aren't true.  How is the Bible special?  Have you heard of the documentary hypothesis, for example?  This is the widely accepted framework for how most scholars believe the Pentateuch was edited by multiple sources over time, each with its own ideological and political goals.  The Gospels also come from a variety of contradicting sources.  If the Bible comes from God, shouldn't it be more coherent and not chock full of contradictions like it is?  Why does it require whole field of study (apologetics) to be defended?  If there is a God, wouldn't he try a little harder to make himself more clear instead of letting people kill each other over things like the doctrine of transubstantiation, for example?

 

Do you understand that if you are talking to people who don't believe in God, no amount of Scripture is going to have any sway?  If you want to convince anyone, it would be helpful to see why you believe Scripture is so special.  And no quoting verses where Scripture claims to be inspired (it really doesn't, btw).  You need to point to real things in the real world to support this independently.  Otherwise you may as well be quoting the BG, the Koran, Harry Potter or any number of interesting books.

 

She'll ignore your common sense questions.

[mymistake]

 

She'll ignore your common sense questions.

 

 

Yes, but only because Jesus told her to ignore them.  We can't expect her to disobey Jesus.

[Guest afireinside]

 

 

 

She'll ignore your common sense questions.

 

Yes, but only because Jesus told her to ignore them. We can't expect her to disobey Jesus.

Discernment personified! Gotta love super-Christians

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

Hi Thumbelina,  

 

I am a noob here so forgive me if you've addressed this in another thread.

 

You use lots of Scripture to support your views.  How much have you looked into the origins of Scripture - the process by which it was written and canonized?  To me, that's been very important - seeing all the history and politics that are involved in passing down those words over history.  It seems very organic, messy, and most of all human.  What is your basis for believing in the authority of Scripture, or disbelieving in the authority of other sacred texts such as the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita?  There are books that say all kinds of things that aren't true.  How is the Bible special?  Have you heard of the documentary hypothesis, for example?  This is the widely accepted framework for how most scholars believe the Pentateuch was edited by multiple sources over time, each with its own ideological and political goals.  The Gospels also come from a variety of contradicting sources.  If the Bible comes from God, shouldn't it be more coherent and not chock full of contradictions like it is?  Why does it require whole field of study (apologetics) to be defended?  If there is a God, wouldn't he try a little harder to make himself more clear instead of letting people kill each other over things like the doctrine of transubstantiation, for example?

 

Do you understand that if you are talking to people who don't believe in God, no amount of Scripture is going to have any sway?  If you want to convince anyone, it would be helpful to see why you believe Scripture is so special.  And no quoting verses where Scripture claims to be inspired (it really doesn't, btw).  You need to point to real things in the real world to support this independently.  Otherwise you may as well be quoting the BG, the Koran, Harry Potter or any number of interesting books.

 

She'll ignore your common sense questions.

 

I expect more of a "the bible is true, neener neener NEENER" type response; but if I prove to have prophesied falsely, y'all have my permission to take me outside the city walls and stone me to death, just as our loving heavenly father commanded.

[RipVanWinkle]

"I came by here last time to basically check in, say hi, tease some folk and not to get into arguing. You lions sure like to argue  I'm busy now so I can't talk now. I did read the posts. I'll TRY to check in again soon ( I think you lions like chompin' on Christians; good thing I know the Great Physician ) ."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Thumbelina

 

For your sake I hope the great physician has a specialty in Psychiatry and Psychology.   bill

[violetbutterfly]

This thread has been very enjoyable for me, if only for the great responses here by our members.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

This thread has been very enjoyable for me, if only for the great responses here by our members.

Me too.  It is only because of those responses that the thread has been enjoyable, IMO.  I find Thumby maddeningly boring and lame.  I hope we get some decent apologists in here soon, the ones I've seen so far have been useless at it.  However, maybe my expectations are too high, and they are all lame. 

[mymistake]

 

This thread has been very enjoyable for me, if only for the great responses here by our members.

Me too.  It is only because of those responses that the thread has been enjoyable, IMO.  I find Thumby maddeningly boring and lame.  I hope we get some decent apologists in here soon, the ones I've seen so far have been useless at it.  However, maybe my expectations are too high, and they are all lame. 

 

 

 

They are all lame.  There are two basic types.  There is the Iron Horse/Thumbelinna type of apologist.  When you point out the evil of the Bible the they says "Gee it's a mystery.  That part of the Bible doesn't really mean what it looks like it means.  But God loves you anyway."  Then there is the kind of apologist who gets banned.  When they see their religion doesn't add up they get mean.  They might lash out personally.  Some of them will justify evil.  "Hey God created you so God has the right to kill you."  Some of them deny evil.  "It's not rape when God orders it because when God orders you to have sex you will want it."

[bornagainathiest]

Hey,

 

Thanks for the input Roz!

Very interesting (and somewhat depressing ) reading. 

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If I had to make a call on Thumby's reaction to you, I'd venture that you'll be totally ignored - just as I am. 

So I'm with the Midniterider on this one.  If she doesn't want to answer someone she'll simply refuse to acknowledge their existence and just push right on with her 'mission'.  This can go on for months or even years and take up dozens of pages and thousands of posts. 

 

I've learned that there's no reasonable and rational basis for meaningful dialog with Thumbelina.

It just comes down to a on-going clash of wills.  She will never cease and desist her teasing, provoking and lecturing and we Lions will never cease and desist opposing her zealotry, her blinkered illogic and her blind, unthinking fanaticism.  We don't do this for her sake.  No.  We do it for the lurkers. Her obsessive devotion to the Bible is the best, most sovereign, most effective antidote to the inner sickness of Christianity that I know of...! 

 

So Roz, if she refuses to engage with you, don't get mad... just persist.

Persist with cool and calm critical thinking, analysis, logic, facts, evidence, data, reasoned arguments and rationality.  Persist in the face of her stubborn, stonewall defiance and her slavish, literalistic adoration of scripture.  Other eyes are watching this thread with interest and we can best serve the silent onlookers by showing them just how detached from reality Thumbelina really is. 

 

So. the more she pushes us aside and persists with her own agenda, the more she pushes her potential converts away from Christ and towards sanity. 

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

BAA

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Roz]

In other words she picks and chooses.  Gee how original of her.  Noticed through her post history that she also pulls the "it's not me judging you, it's the word of god convicting you." 

I'm 70% sure she's SDA.  If that turns out to the true, it's time to dig up all the what-the-fuck-ery known as Ellen White's writings  

[FreeThinkerNZ]

 

 

This thread has been very enjoyable for me, if only for the great responses here by our members.

Me too.  It is only because of those responses that the thread has been enjoyable, IMO.  I find Thumby maddeningly boring and lame.  I hope we get some decent apologists in here soon, the ones I've seen so far have been useless at it.  However, maybe my expectations are too high, and they are all lame. 

 

 

 

They are all lame.  There are two basic types.  There is the Iron Horse/Thumbelinna type of apologist.  When you point out the evil of the Bible the they says "Gee it's a mystery.  That part of the Bible doesn't really mean what it looks like it means.  But God loves you anyway."  Then there is the kind of apologist who gets banned.  When they see their religion doesn't add up they get mean.  They might lash out personally.  Some of them will justify evil.  "Hey God created you so God has the right to kill you."  Some of them deny evil.  "It's not rape when God orders it because when God orders you to have sex you will want it."

 

Thanks for that, they provide a great service in that they show xianity for the nasty scam that it is.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

In other words she picks and chooses.  Gee how original of her.  Noticed through her post history that she also pulls the "it's not me judging you, it's the word of god convicting you." 

I'm 70% sure she's SDA.  If that turns out to the true, it's time to dig up all the what-the-fuck-ery known as Ellen White's writings  

It's interesting that she doesn't want to admit to it.  That says a lot.

[Thumbelina]

I did want to come on here an wrestle with the lions a bit but I have a lot going on; I can't atm. I'm bumping this thread before it expires. It shows that I think about you guys. Hope you dare devils (it's unsafe to be without God ) are Ok.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

How considerate of you, Thumperina.  I'm sure that keeping yourself convinced that jesus is god really does take up a considerable amount of your time.  I know it did for me.  You take your time, now; there's no need to hurry back, bless your heart.

[TrueFreedom]

[Thumbelina]

 

LOL

[bornagainathiest]

A simple question for you to respond to you whenever you return, Thumbelina.

 

Hebrews 11:1, KJV.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 

Is there any need for such faith, when the evidence of something is plainly in front of us and easily seen?

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

 

 

 

p.s.

Please note that there's nothing nasty about it.  It won't hurt you to answer it truthfully.  

 

 

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

I did want to come on here an wrestle with the lions a bit but I have a lot going on; I can't atm. I'm bumping this thread before it expires. It shows that I think about you guys. Hope you dare devils (it's unsafe to be without God ) are Ok.

 

Why is it so unsafe to "be without God"? Is it because your narcissistic god is going to throw us into a lake of fire for not massaging his ego like he wanted? It sounds like you're trying to threaten us in an ambiguous way.

[Roz]

Are you busy watching those Doug Batchelor vids and 3ABN? 

[par4dcourse]

How considerate of you, Thumperina.  I'm sure that keeping yourself convinced that jesus is god really does take up a considerable amount of your time.  I know it did for me.  You take your time, now; there's no need to hurry back, bless your heart.

"Bless your heart" is southern for you're screwed up.

[TrueFreedom]

 it's unsafe to be without God

 

Is this delusion of safety the reason that you cling to faith in your flavor of Christianity?  Is it safety from worldly dangers or from the wrath of your cruel deity?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

How considerate of you, Thumperina.  I'm sure that keeping yourself convinced that jesus is god really does take up a considerable amount of your time.  I know it did for me.  You take your time, now; there's no need to hurry back, bless your heart.

"Bless your heart" is southern for you're screwed up.

 

Thanks for clarifying that for our Northern counterparts, bless their hearts.