Slamming the Christians

[dogmatically_challenged]

Why do Christians come to exchristian.net?  Either because of their own doubts or to re-infect us.  Can we forget that the Christian Meme caused hundreds of thousands of people to be tortured and burned at the stake?  I have no patience with their ignorance, nor will I let them re-infect me.  If they can't stand the heat, let them go elsewhere.

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You make good points. My point in wanting her to stay are for selfish reasons, but there are very good reasons for her to stay even if she stays a christian. She does much, much, less damage than most Christians. The only beef I got with her is that she says the bible is the word of a god and supports scriptures that is hateful to me and other heathens. Never the less she does much good here and in R.T. Its too bad she clings to a religion that is not good enough for her character.

[Fweethawt]

The only beef I got with her is that she says the bible is the word of a god and supports scriptures that is hateful to me and other heathens.

 

It is a choice whether you believe or not. You have the same choice that I have. You do not believe there is a God in heaven to even bow down to. If that is true..................you're only looking at becoming dust again someday.

 

If Christianity is true, you're looking at hell.

 

Now, how do you show someone that their God is a book? Or, how do you show someone that if God is, It is most certainly not a book?

[dogmatically_challenged]

It is a choice whether you believe or not. You have the same choice that I have. You do not believe there is a God in heaven to even bow down to. If that is true..................you're only looking at becoming dust again someday.

 

If Christianity is true, you're looking at hell.

 

Now, how do you show someone that their God is a book? Or, how do you show someone that if God is, It is most certainly not a book?

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You have to show them that the contents of that book is pathetic in comparison to what a theist would know is a testament of a creator which is nature. The cosmos and the crearures on this planet. The design far surpasses that evil book that pretends to be of the creator. She should read Thomas Paines Age of Reason.

 

This would be Bruces department were she can see how he is inspired. I do not believe in gods but I can admit I may be wrong there.

[Fweethawt]

I was gettin' ready to say...

 

You sound like a blossoming little Deist, up there.

 

Paine's Age of Reason is good. So is Ingersoll's Some Mistakes of Moses.

[dogmatically_challenged]

OOps.

[Fweethawt]

OOps.

 

Why did you take your post away? It was fine.

[dogmatically_challenged]

I have no mind left right now. gah!

[dogmatically_challenged]

I pm'ed you Fwee.

[Ouroboros]

You make good points. My point in wanting her to stay are for selfish reasons, but there are very good reasons for her to stay even if she stays a christian. She does much, much, less damage than most Christians. The only beef I got with her is that she says the bible is the word of a god and supports scriptures that is hateful to me and other heathens. Never the less she does much good here and in R.T.  Its too bad she clings to a religion that is not good enough for her character.

I’ve read the posts between Merlin and you and the rest of the posts you’ve done, and I understand the anger and frustration, even though I don’t have any particular extreme bad experience from Christians directly in my life. Then only bad and scary things I’ve seen is what it does to society and people in general. How hate and bigotry is taking a stronger foothold and turning this country into a theocracy, just like many countries have done in history. And we know from history how bad it turned. I sure hope this doesn’t have to happen in our time.

 

You’re right that the Bible believers directly or indirectly follow dangerous ideas and can cause a lot of damage in people around them. I just want to make sure you don’t include religion in general, because like I told Merlin, is that if you remove one particular religion from a person there’s a chance the person will jump to another. And there’s a risk that people start inventing other new, and dangerous, religions when they have lost their first one. The reason why we’re getting new religions now and then is because people grow tired or disappointed of the old ones, and new ones are made up. In a sense we can never get rid of them. I wish we could, but it doesn’t seem reasonable.

 

Besides this, I don’t think you should feel bad to expressing how you feel about Christianity, that’s one of the purposes of this site that we can. This site is not “hang around Christians and support them”, it’s for us to discuss and work on the issues we have with Christians and Christianity affecting our lives.

 

I feel like we should outlaw extreme religious groups and only allow religions that are tolerant and respectful to the rest. But I don’t think that sits to well with the Constitution.

 

***

 

I messed it up, fixed the quotes...

[dogmatically_challenged]

I do not know enough about other religions other than Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. So I have nothing to say of religions outside of those.

 

I have a beef with Christianity and Islam. I know that the world can not be rid of evil but I believe strongly that much damage can be reduced if Christian numbers diminsh and heathen numbers increase. I have no beef with Pagans because I am unaware of any damage from thier religion.

 

Were did you get the idea that I am attacking religion in general? I don't know enough about other religions to say much of anything about them.

 

And what religions besides Chriatianity and Islam do you see as dangerous? What new religions?

[dogmatically_challenged]

Damn where were you when I was trying to express coherently what I see is the danger of the Qu'Ran and Bible?

 

thankful thank you for the rescue. I am not a bigot or narrowminded. I want to like everyone. So its not just me then that sees these things.

[Ouroboros]

I do not know enough about other religions other than Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. So I have nothing to say of religions outside of those.

 

I have a beef with Christianity and Islam. I know that the world can not be rid of evil but I believe strongly that much damage can be reduced if Christian numbers diminsh and heathen numbers increase. I have no beef with Pagans because I am unaware of any damage from thier religion.

 

Were did you get the idea that I am attacking religion in general? I don't know enough about other religions to say much of anything about them.

 

And what religions besides Chriatianity and Islam do you see as dangerous? What new religions?

I didn't say that you were slamming religion in general, it was meant to be directed as a question, just because I wanted to be sure. My question was just to make a reconfirmation. You’re a good guy Dogmatic, and I know you don’t mean harm, and you’re righteously pissed at how extreme religions steal people’s freedom.

 

New religions: Raelians, Scientology (even though it’s getting a bit older), I think there are some other ones too, but my mind is mush right now. I don’t see theses two being of any danger as of now. But who knows, they could turn bad too.

 

It's so strange, the Raelians are just 10-15 years old, and they’re growing, they believe in aliens. Why the heck would people (and this is in Europe, it’s not American!) turn from the older religions and now start believing something totally out of space? It’s so weird.

 

The only way for people to get free from religion is a change from within; they have to come to the conclusion by themselves, and that’s the way you “de-convert” a Christian: with dialogue; which you’re doing. There’s nothing wrong with that.

[dogmatically_challenged]

We really aren't splitting hairs like the sentemtal old wizrard believes.

 

Homosexuals are people also. And So are pagans. We are not evil.

 

This basic descrimination in scriptures does a lot of damage.

[dogmatically_challenged]

I didn't say that you were slamming religion in general, it was meant to be directed as a question, just because I wanted to be sure. My question was just to make a reconfirmation. You’re a good guy Dogmatic, and I know you don’t mean harm, and you’re righteously pissed at how extreme religions steal people’s freedom.

 

New religions: Raelians, Scientology (even though it’s getting a bit older), I think there are some other ones too, but my mind is mush right now. I don’t see theses two being of any danger as of now. But who knows, they could turn bad too.

 

It's so strange, the Raelians are just 10-15 years old, and they’re growing, they believe in aliens. Why the heck would people (and this is in Europe, it’s not American!) turn from the older religions and now start believing something totally out of space? It’s so weird.

 

The only way for people to get free from religion is a change from within; they have to come to the conclusion by themselves, and that’s the way you “de-convert” a Christian: with dialogue; which you’re doing. There’s nothing wrong with that.

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I see. I never would support a law that would ban religion. I love our Constitution. But I aim to change minds.

[Reach]

Dogmatically Challenged, I am glad to see you have added, "EX-XIAN EVANGELIST" underneath your avatar. I don't think I could agree with you more, as you've posted throughout this thread and in many other places around this forum.

 

I understand where you are coming from and I want to restate that we have every right to evangelize and I will continue to do so, regardless of whether others understand our reasons or not. Christianity harms people in a myriad of ways. One problem is that Christians have aligned themselves with a God who has determined to toss all of us into hell for all eternity if we aren't able to buy into ("believe") his program. So Christians are effectively saying, "That kind of God is ok by me." Now, if that kind of thinking is healthy, please, SOMEBODY, tell me how you've arrived at that conclusion. If you love my enemy and stand with him, how can you love me at the same time?

 

When I was a Christian, I was in ministry and I had a heart for evangelism. As an unashamed, unabashed (redundancy intended for impact) atheist, I still have a heart for evangelism. I've seen too many lives ruined by Christianity contrasted by a paltry few who were helped by it. I have no intention of pulling out peoples' crutches for those who need them but I remain actively involved in helping people find wholeness outside of the cult mindset. I don't plan on changing what I do. I am who I am; I'm an evangelist.

 

Merlin, thank you for explaining yourself, but I don't think you quite see it like I do and that's ok. Maybe, in time, you will. You're young and you have time. Every decade of your life will see significant changes in your views so you can expect to continue to evolve and grow. You're already wise beyond your years.

 

As a parting comment regarding my evangelism towards my children, I've found Christianity to be impotent and worthless in some ways, yet harmful in others and because my children are still slightly attached to it, there is a bit of a barrier between us. I want the wall down between me and my children and so I'm taking it down, one brick at a time. No one will stop me from this work. My children are worth the pain and the trouble. I want them to own their lives freely and not invest themselves in a pursuit that is not worthy of them.

[dogmatically_challenged]

I can't seem to be able to access this site without using an anonomous service. I'll check and see if I can loead this forum without anonymous service.

 

I was cut off. Sorry.

[Reach]

I can't seem to be able to access this site without using an anonomous service. I'll check and see if I can loead this forum without anonymous service.

 

I was cut off. Sorry.

No problem, DC. The site has been down for a short while in the last hour.

[dogmatically_challenged]

LOL! I'll put away ny tinfoil hat then. hehe.

[Reach]

Fwee posted this earlier...

 

Religion's Evil Core

 

Judith Hayes, May 2002

 

In December 1998 I wrote a very brief overview of the amount of killing and suffering caused by the world's religions. I mentioned the Crusades, the Inquisitions, Northern Ireland, the "ethnic" (read: religious) cleansing in Bosnia, the Holocaust, the Salem Witch Trials, the Thirty Years' War, and I made a brief reference to the Aztecs' human sacrifices. With what's happening today I think it's time to update and expand on that list. And the next time someone tries to point out to you how religion brings out the best in us, you might want show them a printout of this.

 

* The Aztecs were not alone, although they were the undisputed champions, murdering 20,000 victims each year to appease their gods. Religious human sacrifice was carried out in ancient Phoenicia, Gaul, Tibet, Africa (the Ashanti), and Borneo. The Mayans and Incas also regularly sacrificed humans to their gods, the Incas executing as many as 200 children at once during major ceremonies.

 

* In Alexandria in the year 415, the great female scientist and head of the Alexandria Library, Hypatia, was beaten to death by Catholic monks who considered her scientific work heretical.

 

* Since the 7th century the number of people killed in "jihads" or "holy" wars waged by various factions of Islam can only be vaguely guessed at. Several million would not be out of the question, and the number is increasing as this is being written.

 

* In 1095 when Pope Urban II launched the first Crusade to take the Holy Land from the Muslims, the German Crusaders decided to first "kill the infidels among us" and slaughtered thousands of German Jews on the way to the Holy Land. The same thing happened to Jews in Prague, massacred by Christian Crusaders.

 

* In 1208 Pope Innocent III decreed that a Catholic sect known as the

Albigenses should be destroyed, all murdered, because they held heretical views such as the idea that Jesus was only an angel. The Crusading soldiers swept through southern France searching for these heretics. When they got to the city of Beziers, that was known to host many of the Albigenses, they asked a papal representative how they could distinguish the heretics from the truly faithful. The answer: "Kill them all. God will know His own."

 

* In the 14th century tens of thousands of Jews were killed by Christians for "causing" the Black Death (bubonic plague). Reason? Because so many Jews survived the plague. Reason? Probably the Jewish rituals that include weekly cleansing of the body and changing into clean clothes.

 

* In the 1500s when the Spanish invaded the Americas they brought the Inquisition with them. Demanding "instant" conversion to Catholicism from all the native inhabitants, backsliders were naturally common. And they were then killed by the Inquisition.

 

* Thousands of Protestants fled France to avoid persecution and some

of them ended up in what is now St. Augustine, Florida. In 1565 Catholic Spaniards discovered one such colony and killed almost every single person there. They then erected a sign that said the people had been executed "not as Frenchmen but as Lutherans."

 

* On August 24, 1572, in France, the Catholics murdered thousands of Protestants in a single bloody day. It came to be known as the St. Bartholomew Day massacre.

 

* In the 17th century the Church of England tried to eliminate the Puritans, using torture and sometimes hanging to achieve their ends. Then Oliver Cromwell, a Puritan, rose to power and led the Puritans into a backlash, resulting in civil war. When Cromwell died there was a backlash against Puritans again and Cromwell's body was exhumed, hanged and then decapitated. Death toll uncertain.

 

* On July 1, 1766, in Abbeville, France, a teenage boy was decapitated for singing irreligious songs, marring a crucifix, mocking the Virgin Mary, and refusing to remove his hat when a religious procession passed.

 

* Up until the 1800s the Hindus in India sacrificed a male child every Friday evening for the goddess Kali. Other Kali followers killed an estimated 2 million people over 300 years.

 

* In the mid-1800s a Buddhist king in Burma ordered 500 people to be sacrificed to "sanctify" the new city walls of Mandalay.

 

* In 1857 the East India Company incautiously armed themselves with

rifle cartridges that were greased with animal fat. This enraged both Muslims and Hindus, the former finding pigs to be evil and the latter considering cows to be holy. Violence broke out leaving thousands dead.

 

* In 1915 Christian Armenians and Turkish Muslims waged war on each other leaving an estimated 3 million dead.

 

* Beginning in 1955 in the Sudan, Muslims and Christians waged a "holy" war lasting seventeen years and killing a half million people. In 1983 the same war flared up again, this time with the final result of one million dead in 24 years.

 

* Up until 1965 the Roman Catholic Church's liturgy contained the words, "...and protect us from the perfidious Jews." In the Church's history scores of thousands of Jews were killed for (1) Murdering Christian children and drinking their blood; and (2) "Host-Nailing" meaning that they stole the communion wafers that represented the body of Jesus and drove nails through them, thereby crucifying Jesus a second time. [i am not making this up.]

 

* In the fifty years of Israel's existence, over 3,000 Israelis died as a result of Muslim suicide bombers, thousands more during various wars, and the religious clashes between Israeli Jews and Palestinian Muslims continue to this day, as does the dying-on both sides.

 

* In 1978 more than 900 people of the religious group, the Peoples Temple, died as victims of suicide/murders at their own hands, in Jonestown in Guyana, South America.

 

* In the 1980s Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini ruled by means of cruel torture and killings. Secrecy surrounds the number of victims, but thousands are certainly dead because of his religious oppression.

 

* In 1980 at Moradabad, India, a riot broke out between Muslims and

Hindus because the former believed the latter had intentionally driven a pig to walk over Muslim holy ground. 200 died.

 

* In the 1980s Iran's Shi'ite theocracy killed around 200 Baha'i believers who would not convert to Islam.

 

* In 1993 a secretive religious cult, the Branch Dividians, led by David Koresh, armed themselves to the teeth and fought with Federal Agents, leaving 83 dead in Waco, Texas.

 

* On June 17, 1993, a six-year-old girl died after being struck by a moving train in Dania, Florida. She was thrown 20 feet and suffered a broken neck. Her brother had pushed her to safety, but she rushed back onto the tracks to die so she could be in heaven, waiting for her terminally ill mother. [AP]

 

* On January 13, 1999 in Ahmedabad, India, Hindu mobs attacked and set fire to two Christian chapels in an ongoing religious struggle. [Reuters]

 

* On October 28, 2000, in Nablus on the West Bank, an angry mob of Muslims ripped up Jewish prayer books and stomped on their sacred scrolls, protesting their right to be on the West Bank. [The Washington Post]

 

* On September 11, 2001 nineteen Muslims flew two jumbo jets into the World Trade Center, one into the Pentagon, and a fourth one crashed, leaving over 3,000 dead. This act was to please Allah and achieve Paradise by killing "Infidels."

 

* This year, 2002, we all learned the horrific scale of a problem that we had always known existed in the Roman Catholic Church-pedophilia. Now and again we'd read about priests raping young boys, but the extent of the obscenity was hidden from most of us by a vile, crass, CYA policy followed by Cardinals and Bishops all over the USA. They just moved the rapists from one diocese to another and/or paid off the victims' families so they'd keep silent about it. Making it worse is the callous attitude shown by the American Bishops and Cardinals summoned to Rome to consider the outrages. They used words like "offenders" and "mistakes" and other weasel words, as if they had been caught with their hands in a cookie jar instead of molesting children. Those priests are not offenders. They are criminals and should be treated as such. This abomination should have been addressed decades ago. But of course Popes have other things to think about in their busy world.

 

* On October 27, 2000, in Rome, at his weekly general audience in front of 50,000 in St. Peter's Square, Pope John Paul II gave thanks to 2,000 pizzamakers gathered from around the world to celebrate World Pizzamakers' Day. "We appreciate so much your professional work," said the 80-year-old Pope. "I pray for your families and your particular profession," he added. [Reuters]

[dogmatically_challenged]

I know I seem a little lazy, and I am familiar with these but I was hoping to get Tap and SOIL both in the arena and dump the NT bigotry right on them.

 

I never waste my time on a lot of the loser xians that come in and out of here. I care about people of quality to bother. My gameplan is to educate nonchristians that defend xianity as well as xians that I see have doubts. But for Tap and SOIL I would make an exeption.

[dogmatically_challenged]

WOW reach, thankful! I can learn a lot here no doubt about it. I take back my confidence. hehe

[Reach]

REACH...I'm with ya girl.  How old are your children?  Mine are 7 and 10, they know that I no longer believe and they don't either but because my husband still does believe (though not active in christianity) I don't know how far to carry teaching them the SCAM.  My concern is that if I die, I my worst fear might come true and they would become christians again because I hadn't taught them the importance of not becoming entrapped.

Exactly! They are 19 and 21. Male and female.

 

My guilt is significant over this because they saw me as their spiritual mentor. I led them into Christianity and now I'm struggling to bring them out with the least amount of pain and injury. I feel for you, Thankful!

[dogmatically_challenged]

I know I seem a little lazy, and I am familiar with these but I was hoping to get Tap and SOIL both in the arena and dump the NT bigotry right on them.

 

I never waste my time on a lot of the loser xians that come in and out of here. I care about people of quality to bother. My gameplan is to educate nonchristians that defend xianity as well as xians that I see have doubts. But for Tap and SOIL I would make an exeption.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

bump

[dogmatically_challenged]

You know what?  If their is a god, our purpose on earth might be to lead others away from and expose man-made religion for the evil that it is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed. I hope you feel better and better about yourself. You deserve a piece of mind.

[Reach]

You know what?  If their is a god, our purpose on earth might be to lead others away from and expose man-made religion for the evil that it is.

YES! If there is a God, he's not the man-made Christian variety. That thing is EVIL! That's who we are exposing. That's the God I want my children to divorce.

 

My daughter (the 21 year old) is very much like your little girl.