Guest WarrantedPVC Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 He contained it within Himself - It was only after the Spirit left Him at point of death, that it was free from His Body. Now it is free, and in this world to enter all men. Jesus made that possible. God Spirit belonged to Jesus - now Jesus has given it to us. So: 1) Why didn't Jesus just die a peaceful death? Why was the suffering bit needed? 2) Why did God put his Spirit in Jesus in the first place, if he knew it was going to have to get out of there anyay 3) Does this mean God can't do everything - eg. his Spirit is limited by a physical body until it dies? PVC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 So the person Jesus was a part of God like all the rest of us, but somehow from his "birth" he was especially favored by having "Christ" in him. Why? Why don't we all have this? Please don't evade this question by saying "he just had it." "Many are called - few are chosen" [Jesus was chosen by God to be a light for mankind, so that the [many] could learn from the Master. Like WarrantedPVC and others here, I remain mystified by your view of Christ and the atonement and how it fits in with what you have said about the attributes of God. How is what Jesus did important in any special way if we are all eventually going to be freed from our egos anyway? I just don't get the mechanism here. You say "many are called - few are chosen" Few is more than one. Were there others also chosen to atone for the "sin" of humans? Do you accept the existance of avatars? At first you sounded like a pantheist but your other views don't seem to fit. Isn't having a conherent logical belief structure important to you? You seem to have an answer for everything and they don't seem to fit together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WarrantedPVC Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Not when it's self contradicting, opium fuelled nonsense... the guy is running on more drugs than any three Mega-Church pastors... Aww, drugs or not, I actually enjoy talking to him!! He's one of the very few New Age-ist Buddhist Christians I have met. PVC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 He's an idiot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1United Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 See that wasn't hard Now, quite how can an omnipresent god be 'trapped' prior to the Crucifixion? God is not just Spirit - and Holy Spirit is not entirety of God. Jesus contained in Him the [spiritual] essence of God, but not God Himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Gibberish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1United Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 He contained it within Himself - It was only after the Spirit left Him at point of death, that it was free from His Body. Now it is free, and in this world to enter all men. Jesus made that possible. God Spirit belonged to Jesus - now Jesus has given it to us. So: 1) Why didn't Jesus just die a peaceful death? Why was the suffering bit needed? 2) Why did God put his Spirit in Jesus in the first place, if he knew it was going to have to get out of there anyay 3) Does this mean God can't do everything - eg. his Spirit is limited by a physical body until it dies? PVC I don't know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Finally! An honest answer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1United Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 Like WarrantedPVC and others here, I remain mystified by your view of Christ and the atonement and how it fits in with what you have said about the attributes of God. How is what Jesus did important in any special way if we are all eventually going to be freed from our egos anyway? I just don't get the mechanism here. You say "many are called - few are chosen" Few is more than one. Were there others also chosen to atone for the "sin" of humans? Do you accept the existance of avatars? At first you sounded like a pantheist but your other views don't seem to fit. Isn't having a conherent logical belief structure important to you? You seem to have an answer for everything and they don't seem to fit together. Yes, there have been many lights, but only one who possessed Christ. The cross wasn't about atonement per se. It was about His Love for mankind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Finally! An honest answer... Damn near made me faint lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 See that wasn't hard Now, quite how can an omnipresent god be 'trapped' prior to the Crucifixion? God is not just Spirit - and Holy Spirit is not entirety of God. Jesus contained in Him the [spiritual] essence of God, but not God Himself. You seem to be shifting your views with our questions. You said God was "part" of everything. Jesus is either part of God or is not. Now you seem to say Jesus was not. Define "part" in this context. What is the actual difference between "spiritual essence of God" and God Himself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WarrantedPVC Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 I don't know No problem, we've all been there I only want to ask now how you DO know all the other things you have claimed in the past 89 posts you have made here. PVC Edit: changed the number of his post to the up-to-date one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1United Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 Not when it's self contradicting, opium fuelled nonsense... the guy is running on more drugs than any three Mega-Church pastors... Aww, drugs or not, I actually enjoy talking to him!! He's one of the very few New Age-ist Buddhist Christians I have met. PVC Thank you, and I do not use drugs, save caffine, and Nicotine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WarrantedPVC Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 As a clarification, I am not asking for proof per se. I am asking for your source of knowledge. PVC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Like WarrantedPVC and others here, I remain mystified by your view of Christ and the atonement and how it fits in with what you have said about the attributes of God. How is what Jesus did important in any special way if we are all eventually going to be freed from our egos anyway? I just don't get the mechanism here. You say "many are called - few are chosen" Few is more than one. Were there others also chosen to atone for the "sin" of humans? Do you accept the existance of avatars? At first you sounded like a pantheist but your other views don't seem to fit. Isn't having a conherent logical belief structure important to you? You seem to have an answer for everything and they don't seem to fit together. Yes, there have been many lights, but only one who possessed Christ. The cross wasn't about atonement per se. It was about His Love for mankind. Who's love for mankind? God wants nothing and has no mind... no mind, there is nothing to have emotion, just reaction... like an amoeba reacts to a chemical signal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1United Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 You seem to be shifting your views with our questions. You said God was "part" of everything. Jesus is either part of God or is not. Now you seem to say Jesus was not. Define "part" in this context. What is the actual difference between "spiritual essence of God" and God Himself? God is everything, and everything is part of God, but Gods Spirit is not within all things, but it was in Jesus. God is all in all, but the in all did not happen until after Jesus died for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Gibberish. God is somehow magically separate form 'his' spirit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1United Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 Who's love for mankind? God wants nothing and has no mind... no mind, there is nothing to have emotion, just reaction... like an amoeba reacts to a chemical signal... Jesus was not God, just a man like me and you. Christ, which is the Spirit of God was in Jesus the man. Jesus loved humanity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1United Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 I don't know No problem, we've all been there I only want to ask now how you DO know all the other things you have claimed in the past 89 posts you have made here. PVC Edit: changed the number of his post to the up-to-date one... How do you know you like pizza? [if you like pizza] It is just something personal that understand to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 You seem to be shifting your views with our questions. You said God was "part" of everything. Jesus is either part of God or is not. Now you seem to say Jesus was not. Define "part" in this context. What is the actual difference between "spiritual essence of God" and God Himself? God is everything, and everything is part of God, but Gods Spirit is not within all things, but it was in Jesus. God is all in all, but the in all did not happen until after Jesus died for us. This doesn't make any sense to me. God is everything, yet still a part of God (his Spirit) is not. This is very contradictory sounding. As for the "Jesus died for us" -- how did that work? What is different in the world now that wasn't before this person died? Did you think up this idea yourself or did someone teach you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1United Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 Gibberish. God is somehow magically separate form 'his' spirit? God is not seperated from His spirit; we are due to ego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WarrantedPVC Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 How do you know you like pizza? [if you like pizza] It is just something personal that understand to be true. Hehe, as if I heard myself two years ago!!! (My version of it had liking blue as a color though). Anyway, the answer to that is quite simple. I like pizza because whenever I eat pizza I feel good. Equivalently you are saying that believing all that makes you feel good, therefore you like believing it. But there is a problem with that. "Pizza" or "blue" aren't statements about the nature of reality. The many things you have been saying about half-God or a Spirit going into Jesus and then Jesus suffering and dying so the Spirit can come out of him and we can all receive it and therefore be saved, however, are statements about the nature of reality. Just like "metals expand when heated" or "1United's dog has 3 legs" are statements about reality. We might like to believe them for whatever reason, and we might end up feeling good about believing them, but that doesn't make them true. Besides, how can you be certain it isn't an evil power deceiving you to believe what you believe? PVC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Harley Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Ahha, that's Hinduism, and thus nothing new... and Krishna did it long before Jesus did... There are some sects of Hinduism who beleive that Jesus was just another avatar of the Bhrama (the dreamer of the dream of creation) that is personified as Vishnu... ho hum... nothing new, other than claiming Jesus is somehow unique, which he wasn't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1United Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 You seem to be shifting your views with our questions. You said God was "part" of everything. Jesus is either part of God or is not. Now you seem to say Jesus was not. Define "part" in this context. What is the actual difference between "spiritual essence of God" and God Himself? God is everything, and everything is part of God, but Gods Spirit is not within all things, but it was in Jesus. God is all in all, but the in all did not happen until after Jesus died for us. This doesn't make any sense to me. God is everything, yet still a part of God (his Spirit) is not. This is very contradictory sounding. As for the "Jesus died for us" -- how did that work? What is different in the world now that wasn't before this person died? Did you think up this idea yourself or did someone teach you? When you die, and your body perishes, will your Spirit and soul still be in the body [if they truly exist.] There is a spiritual plane in which we belong, and there is a mental plane in which we belong. Both of the these planes are eternaly present, but the physical plane is temporal. Gods spirit existed outside this plane until Jesus was born. God Spirit became a flesh creature, and lived among us in a Human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1United Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 How do you know you like pizza? [if you like pizza] It is just something personal that understand to be true. Hehe, as if I heard myself two years ago!!! (My version of it had liking blue as a color though). Anyway, the answer to that is quite simple. I like pizza because whenever I eat pizza I feel good. Equivalently you are saying that believing all that makes you feel good, therefore you like believing it. But there is a problem with that. "Pizza" or "blue" aren't statements about the nature of reality. The many things you have been saying about half-God or a Spirit going into Jesus and then Jesus suffering and dying so the Spirit can come out of him and we can all receive it and therefore be saved, however, are statements about the nature of reality. Just like "metals expand when heated" or "1United's dog has 3 legs" are statements about reality. We might like to believe them for whatever reason, and we might end up feeling good about believing them, but that doesn't make them true. Besides, how can you be certain it isn't an evil power deceiving you to believe what you believe? PVC We can focus on the worldly realm, or we can focus on the [heavenly]. Spirit produces true peace, and fulfillment. "Store up for yourselves treasures in Heaven" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts