I Am A Christian - Any Questions?

[1United]

That's funny because I've never claimed to be able to [prove] anything. I have an understanding of Christ that I want to share. I see many [most] have no interest, and are rejecting everything I say. This is alright, some might understand it, and other won't - that is the nature of the beast. [Man - ego]

I find your view interesting because it's more of a mystical/buddhist kind of interpretation of Christianity. But it seems this thread is spinning out of control by one of your fellow Christians that only want to cause havoc instead of bridging a common understanding.

 

Do you belong to a church currently or a denomination? How did you come to believe this way, was it through someone's teachings or books or just by your own contemplation?

 

I don't belong to any particular church, but I have REALLY good friends that have helped shape my views - along with earnest contemplation on my part.

[Ouroboros]

HanSolo : We also speak about God as omnipotent who knows perfectly what's right and what's wrong. God said homosexuality is sin and if he said so... it's true.

But that was not your first response, was it? You responded in haste from what is in your heart, which is fear and hate. You call things "sin" because you personally dislike them, and not because some God said this or that. Besides, omnipotence has nothing to do with the concepts of sin, right or wrong. I guess you meant "just" or "righteous"?

[Sparrow]

Now you're running away and blaming us because we don't appreciate you're boundless wisdom.

 

How brave and noble of you.

 

Spatz

 

You are not your ego.

 

Oh .... that was profound ...

 

... and you are not intelligent and you do not know what you are talking about

 

Geez, this is getting boring - it's like listening to a teenager who's been caught-out doing something wrong and refuses to admit he "busted".

 

No it wasn't me. No it wasn't me.

 

Spatz

[Ouroboros]

Next question: Since this is humanism with a religious label, why not just skip the religion and get down to the business of being human?

Amen to that.

 

The ultimate transformation from religious and transcendental experience is to become fully human without the need of religious dogma or theology. That's how freedom and salvation is achieved.

[Not_Scarevangelist]

HanSolo : We also speak about God as omnipotent who knows perfectly what's right and what's wrong. God said homosexuality is sin and if he said so... it's true.

But that was not your first response, was it? You responded in haste from what is in your heart, which is fear and hate. You call things "sin" because you personally dislike them, and not because some God said this or that. Besides, omnipotence has nothing to do with the concepts of sin, right or wrong. I guess you meant "just" or "righteous"?

 

Hans... I don't think it's fear. Hate? Maybe. I can't stand gay singers like Azis (if you have heard about him in Bulgaria you know what I'm talking about). But I know I'm wrong and my heart must turn to God so I must learn how to love people like him.

[Evolution_beyond]

People always thought that Christians are ignorant... especially when they speak what you don't like :)

 

And people think we're ignorant when we say christianity is bullshit.

 

Btw - I have a present for you

 

[1United]

So to you spirits are natural? I wonder then if they are subject to the same sorts of inquiry that all natural things are. Can we come to understand spirits? Could there be a science of spirits?

 

It is obvious that when we are angry that the spirit of anger is in control of our being. Of course spirit is a part of natural world. All things that exist are natural. In my view, anyway

[Kuroikaze]

I am a Christian, and I think you unwise to shrug off Christianity as myth, or as fary tale, or as silly, etc... I am not a fundamentalist, I am not orthodox, I am not lead by the wolves. The only thing I ask of [you] is to come with open mind, and truly wish to understand the position I hold as a Christian. [Follower of Christ] A closed mind is a self created snare, by which we shut ourselves off from further understanding. I will do my best to answer any and all questions you might have about my position as a Christian.

 

 

My mind is perfectly open, as soon as you can offer evidence to support your claims I will be willing to believe them.

 

 

1) Hell is not a literal torture chamber for all eternity

 

I don't think hell exists at all, so I guess I would agree with you.

 

2) Satan is not a literal being

 

He isn't any kind of being at all...so I guess I agree.

 

3) All is eternal

 

Do you have proof of this? All the evidence available suggests that our lives are not eternal.

 

4) Death is just another beginning

 

Again, I'm gonna need some evidence, of course if there is a life after death, that would be nice, but I'm not gonna hold my breath, there is no reason to believe that I'll still be around once my brain stops functioning.

 

Some things are not so clear in scripture, but they are there just the same. All one must do to see it, is desire truth, and seek harmony with God

 

Take care,

 

You make a lot of assumptions here...Of course I agree that things are not clear in scripture, because the books is a muddled mix of good ideas and horrible ones, it has not single message, because it was written by many people over a period of about 1,000 years, as such the writers often totally disagree with one another....that is what I see when I read the bible.

[Ouroboros]

Hans... I don't think it's fear. Hate? Maybe. I can't stand gay singers like Azis (if you have heard about him in Bulgaria you know what I'm talking about). But I know I'm wrong and my heart must turn to God so I must learn how to love people like him.

Your way of expressing your definition of sin referred to that you did not like to have a mom with the name George, in other words: fear.

 

I think you live in fear of Hell and sinners around you and a society that is going the "wrong" way for you and such, and it scares the heck out of you, that's why you're so hard-core evangelical. You need to find peace, because you don't have it yet.

[Not_Scarevangelist]

Hans... I don't think it's fear. Hate? Maybe. I can't stand gay singers like Azis (if you have heard about him in Bulgaria you know what I'm talking about). But I know I'm wrong and my heart must turn to God so I must learn how to love people like him.

Your way of expressing your definition of sin referred to that you did not like to have a mom with the name George, in other words: fear.

 

I think you live in fear of Hell and sinners around you and a society that is going the "wrong" way for you and such, and it scares the heck out of you, that's why you're so hard-core evangelical. You need to find peace, because you don't have it yet.

 

Hans... do you know you are the only one who speaks more human-like if it's the right word?

 

Fear of hell? I don't think so, I'm Universalist. Do you think we have fear of hell? About peace... you have some points here.

[Kuroikaze]

But George is a gender-specific name cuz it's used only for males.

OMG

 

George Sand was a woman.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Sand

[1United]

1United, have you read any of Not_Scarevangelist? Do you think he has a good and efficient approach to reach people with his message, and do you think he has the right message at all when he say "repent" and his views on "sin" etc?

 

Repent simply means to change ones ways. This we must do if we are going to live through the Spirit, or [Christ]. I don't agree with His approach per se, but I don't want to judge because my approach may not be any better, ya know?

[Legion]

So to you spirits are natural? I wonder then if they are subject to the same sorts of inquiry that all natural things are. Can we come to understand spirits? Could there be a science of spirits?

It is obvious that when we are angry that the spirit of anger is in control of our being. Of course spirit is a part of natural world. All things that exist are natural. In my view, anyway

So why not just say "emotions" instead of "spirits"? And I agree with your view that all things that exist are natural.

[crazy-tiger]

According to what you've been saying in this thread alone, ANYONE who believes in eternal hell isn't a Christian. That, by the way, automatically turns roughly 80% of all Christians into non-Christians.

Anyone who believes Satan is a actual being isn't a Christian... so much for Job then.

Anyone who believes that not all things are eternal, which includes the vast majority of liberal Christians, aren't Christians...

Anyone who believes that those not going to Heaven after death just no longer exist, which is the usual way to avoid the "eternal torture" issue, obviously isn't Christian.

 

Frankly, you've just made sure that maybe a handful of people throughout history might possibly be Christian... but not very likely. Or, you've just made damned sure that the Bible is nothing but a work of fiction, that Christianity is a myth, a fairytale... which is a bit silly, since you think concluding such is wrong.

 

If you're going to try that line on us, make sure you're reading the Bible the right way...

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?show...c=19329&hl=

 

Christian is one who follows Christ; Christ is Spirit [Agape - Love] To follow Christ one must live through Spirit, as oppssed to ego.

 

I read just fine, thank you. If you would like to continue to view the bible in an orthodox manner, that is entirely up to you.

You know... you just missed the entire point there. Sure you say you read just fine, but are you sure you're reading the Bible the right way?

 

If you got the point, you'd not have said anything about the way I view the Bible, but would instead have realised that no-one can ever know if they are reading it the right way.

 

 

I view it as a collection of stories... a collection that, by the way, is pretty useless for any kind of guidance for the most part... unless you're looking for guidance on how to act like a complete fucking jerk!

Am I reading it right, when I read it like that? Probably not... but to be quite honest with you, I'm not using it as the basis of a way of life, so there's no need for me to have got it right.

 

You, on the other hand, ARE using it as the basis of your way of life... so you need to be damned certain you're reading it right. The problem is, your way of reading it excludes just about every single other person in history. If you are right, then YOU are likely the only Christian to have ever existed.

 

 

The thing is, you're blending in so much else from other religions that you've come up with something that is nothing like Christ. You follow something that is so unlike Christ that you're less of a Christian than I am.

 

God said very plainly not to take anything from other religions... not to lean to your own understanding... not to add anything to his word. You've done all that, yet still think you're doing what he want's you to do??

 

 

 

There is no right way to read the Bible at all... it's been edited and translated and mis-translated and twisted over and over throughout history. It contains falsified works, and has for at least 1800 years. Whenever you read it, you are reading someones interpretation of an edited, twisted, mis-translated, interpreted, edited, twisted, mis-translated interpretation of an oral history that has also been twisted, mis-heard, mis-told, "jazzed up" and enhanced from several contradictory stories... and if you think that can give you even the slightest bit of truth then you're incredibly gullible.

 

 

I wonder if you'll miss the point again?

[hereticzero]

1) Hell is not a literal torture chamber for all eternity

 

2) Satan is not a literal being

 

I dare say that most xtians would strongly disagree with you on this one. I sat through many a sermon on the "personal devil" and the literal suffering in hell. "You have to believe in a personal devil if you believe in a personal god..."

 

Your post makes no argument for the actual existance of god. That's where the rubber meets the road.

 

God is All in All as scripture states. Which is to say that God is everything that exists. You, me, the paint on the wall, the tree in your back yard, etc are all a tiny part of what God is. God is not just matter, He is also all spirit, and all mind. He consists of everything that exixts. [God is All existance]

 

what drivel.

[hereticzero]

Hey, CrazyTiger, can you do an animated .gif or something like your super heroes but with Jesus and the apostles? that would be hilarious.

[Guest WarrantedPVC]

It can't - it wasn't a payment to an angry God - You are thinking like an orthodox.

No, I was just thinking along the lines of what you said:

 

His death does not redeem us, but it was His death and suffering that enabled Him to redeem us, and reconcile all men to God.

 

He died because this was the only way to accomplish what He was sent to accomplish. He was born from both flesh, and Spirit. His body was going to die anyway, but the significance is [how] He died, and [why] it had to be this way.

 

Jesus was sinless; He never suffered from sin because He never sinned. [suffering stems from sin, which leads to death] Death here represents the act of dying to sin because it is through sin that we realize what sin entails.

 

Sin is a breaking of the law, or a missing of the mark. Jesus NEVER missed that mark, which is why God made Him to suffer. He suffered for us. [To conquer sin, one must know sin.]

I'm sorry but according to what you said there, it still seems like

1) The God you believe in IS angry at people because otherwise men wouldn't need to be "reconciled to him"

2) The only way to do that was to have Jesus dying

3) Jesus was innocent because he never sinned

4) Jesus suffered for humans

 

so I think my question was/is still justified. I wasn't thinking "like an orthodox", I was using your post to attempt to think like you. But it's a bit difficult to do when what you think seems to be changing constantly...

 

I [don']t know in the sense that my knowledge can be verified scientifically, but that doesn't make it any less a truth. Once you realize who the one true God really is, things begin to fall into place [imo]

Of course, the fact that you can't prove an idea doesn't make it any less true or false. However, personally, I don't think it's morally right to claim an idea as truth when you don't know if it's the truth or not. It also does make me wonder how you can know with such certainty that you aren't being deceived by some evil power into this Buddhism/New Age/Christianity variant of your own. I know many Christians would argue you're misled by the devil and I have no indication that their claims are any more trustworthy (or true) than yours.

 

PVC

[R. S. Martin]

Next question: Since this is humanism with a religious label, why not just skip the religion and get down to the business of being human?

Amen to that.

 

The ultimate transformation from religious and transcendental experience is to become fully human without the need of religious dogma or theology. That's how freedom and salvation is achieved.

 

Agreed. I hope 1United responds, too.

[Legion]

I think PVC is cool.

[SWIM]

Hey, CrazyTiger, can you do an animated .gif or something like your super heroes but with Jesus and the apostles? that would be hilarious.

 

Hey, that sounds like a fun idea, maybe one with all the religous leaders, like budda, jeebus, muhammad etc etc.

 

That would be a hoot!

 

Might give it a spin myself.

 

/hijack

[crazy-tiger]

So to you spirits are natural? I wonder then if they are subject to the same sorts of inquiry that all natural things are. Can we come to understand spirits? Could there be a science of spirits?

It is obvious that when we are angry that the spirit of anger is in control of our being. Of course spirit is a part of natural world. All things that exist are natural. In my view, anyway

So why not just say "emotions" instead of "spirits"? And I agree with your view that all things that exist are natural.

Because if he said "emotions" then he'd have to take the responsibility for being angry and any consequences... whereas if he says "spirits" then it's obviously coming from outside him and it's not his fault if he angrily rams his car into another just because the driver cut him up in traffic...

 

 

 

I'm being cynical again, aren't I?

[crazy-tiger]

Hey, CrazyTiger, can you do an animated .gif or something like your super heroes but with Jesus and the apostles? that would be hilarious.

I wish I could... but I picked this up over the internet a few years back. I can't even remember what the gif was originally called. sorry

[hereticzero]

WPC...

 

Its making it up as it goes along... God is 'everything' then suddenly 'sin' crops up... but if God is everything, animate and inanimate then God was Pohl Pot, Stalin, Hitler, Mother Theresa, and any other number of money grubbing despots...

 

Exacty

this one?

[1United]

You know... you just missed the entire point there. Sure you say you read just fine, but are you sure you're reading the Bible the right way?

 

If you got the point, you'd not have said anything about the way I view the Bible, but would instead have realised that no-one can ever know if they are reading it the right way.

 

 

I view it as a collection of stories... a collection that, by the way, is pretty useless for any kind of guidance for the most part... unless you're looking for guidance on how to act like a complete fucking jerk!

Am I reading it right, when I read it like that? Probably not... but to be quite honest with you, I'm not using it as the basis of a way of life, so there's no need for me to have got it right.

 

You, on the other hand, ARE using it as the basis of your way of life... so you need to be damned certain you're reading it right. The problem is, your way of reading it excludes just about every single other person in history. If you are right, then YOU are likely the only Christian to have ever existed.

 

 

The thing is, you're blending in so much else from other religions that you've come up with something that is nothing like Christ. You follow something that is so unlike Christ that you're less of a Christian than I am.

 

God said very plainly not to take anything from other religions... not to lean to your own understanding... not to add anything to his word. You've done all that, yet still think you're doing what he want's you to do??

 

 

 

There is no right way to read the Bible at all... it's been edited and translated and mis-translated and twisted over and over throughout history. It contains falsified works, and has for at least 1800 years. Whenever you read it, you are reading someones interpretation of an edited, twisted, mis-translated, interpreted, edited, twisted, mis-translated interpretation of an oral history that has also been twisted, mis-heard, mis-told, "jazzed up" and enhanced from several contradictory stories... and if you think that can give you even the slightest bit of truth then you're incredibly gullible.

 

 

I wonder if you'll miss the point again?

 

There is truth to be found even in your post. Religion is not the truth - the truth is not religion. Truth is only truth - whether many religions have it in part right, or few.

[SWIM]

Hey, CrazyTiger, can you do an animated .gif or something like your super heroes but with Jesus and the apostles? that would be hilarious.

I wish I could... but I picked this up over the internet a few years back. I can't even remember what the gif was originally called. sorry

 

I'll give it a shot later today CT and HZ. No promises, still in the learning phase.