hereticzero Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Michael and Heretic zero: You (and basically atheists) must prove their version, because there are thousands of theories that try to explain creation without God - Evolution, Panspermy and so on. I do not have to prove jack shit, jerk off. You came here spewing your bullshit for which we call you accountable to prove of get the fuck out of here. You came here with your version of everything which you haven't tried to prove. You submit plattitudes and sanctimonious appologies but no proof. You should not even make a post of absurdities without offering proof in support of your claims. So take what's left of your ass and shove off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quicksand Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Some things are not so clear in scripture, but they are there just the same. All one must do to see it, is desire truth, and seek harmony with God Then what good is the Bible? Like many Christians, you cherry-pick from scripture to make the god you want, which in turn, that god becomes a mirror of yourself. That's useless and incoherent to the point of being unintelligible. Don't believe me? You say there is no hell and satan is not real, however, the last sermon I listened to assured me that Hell was indeed real as real as purgatory and heaven. One of you is wrong according to your individual worldviews. 4) Death is just another beginning Then the word "death" is meaningless in the context. God is not image of man, but man image of God consiting of mind, Spirit, and matter. God is not what we make Him, He is all that is. He is All in All. Man place own attributes on God, and create false God in proccess. We re-incarnate What the fuck does that mean? Sounds like gnostic b/s to me with the deluge being the false god. You in no way rebutted the fact that some one like Robertson or the thankfully late Farwell disagree with you. Your beginning to sound like Troy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparrow Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 HereticZero Reasoning with atheists is the same. For example, how humans were created... You never have the logical explaination. Never a logical explanation? Hah ... how about educaton! Magic stuff that - suddenly all things once considered "magic" suddenly become ... well .... logical. Stupid dolt - suppose you were "home skool'd". Spatz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Part of it is that when you focus too much on sin, sin becomes you more. You have to be able to let go and be calm and at peace with yourself and your existence to really beat your ego. But it also requires complete and total separation from another desire you have, which is search and belief in higher beings. Not until you can release your mind from any kind of religious belief or dogma can you be truly free. Because your religion makes you focus on your sin, instead of focus on the good things. The "demons" and the "dragons" gets their energy from your attention, and as long as you feed them they get stronger and you have less control over them. When you can steer your mind without actively steering it, you're in control. Listen, you want to go to Heaven and you do not want to go to Hell. Correct? Why? Is it because "you" want this and that or because that is the ultimate good for existence? I'd say it's most likely that your Ego is the one driving you to want to avoid Hell and go to Heaven, right? Or it is your Ego that wants to please God in one way or another, or your Ego that wants to obey God and avoid sin. So who is it that wants these things? You, you and you. So in the end, your strive to avoid sin is a sin in itself. Heaven, and hell exist in awareness of mind. I seek harmony - not heaven as orthodox view the term. Hell exist here on earth as well - Hell is state of suffering. I don't seek to understand God, God is beyond my comprehension. It is enough for me to realize that all that exist is God. I don't need to place attribute on God, only know that God in His essence is purity. God consist of mind-spirit-matter, As do we, and this is what bible mean when it says that we aere made in the image of God. Okay, but you're still missing one important part. You talked about transgression against God's law, and that was the definition of "sin". Now, why is it so important for you to avoid sin? Why does your ego want to avoid sin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 So at what point was Jesus associated with "Christ" and how? Jesus always contained Christ within Him, but like us, He also grew in that Spirit. He never sinned, but He grew in understanding through the spirit He possessed. So the person Jesus was a part of God like all the rest of us, but somehow from his "birth" he was especially favored by having "Christ" in him. Why? Why don't we all have this? Please don't evade this question by saying "he just had it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1United Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 yeah? Where's your proof? Remember, YOU are the asserter here, prove it. Proof comes when one lives through Spirit, and tames ego. I can't prove anything to you, I can only share what I understand. You must find this truth for yourself, or reject it. It is completely up to you; it makes no real difference to me at all. Only, I wish you to see cycle of sin and suffering, and the way out. [salvation] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparrow Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 yeah? Where's your proof? Remember, YOU are the asserter here, prove it. Proof comes when one lives through Spirit, ..... That's your imagination - that is not proof. "Proof" is not a feeling. You don't "feel" proof. Geezus!!!! Get a life. Talk about making stuff up on the spot. Spatz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 You want proof? Here it is: Jesus DID live and there are documents describing his existence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Really? Did science explain what before Big Bang was? Or you just accept as a fact that the Big Bang and some great catastrophic explosion from the middle of Nowhere created the time and matter and it started to self-organize. For the sake of Jesus grow up! Do you have to derail this thread already? I honestly found it quite interesting to discuss with 1U and you had to completely hijack this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1United Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 I think I finally understand what you believe and what you are saying. You are saying that God poured out his spirit on the human race. He did this by creating a perfect, sinless man who was filled with God's spirit. The crucifixion is not really important, all that stuff about sacrifice to pay for the sins of human race is human misunderstandings and nonsense. But the resurrection is what was important - because this resurrection allowed God's spirit to come to all of Jesus' followers and give them eternal life. Is this what you believe/are saying? You keep saying that ego causes the illusion of separation - and this causes suffering. So I imagine that all this Holy Spirit saving us from sin is also about dying to our egos so that we might feel that connection to the divine again. There's something very similar to Advaita Vedanta in all of this. Are you familiar with the Upanishads or with Advaita Vedanta philosophy in Hinduism? You seem to be saying something very similar - but with a special focus on Jesus as saviour, a kind of Buddha figure who can help us overcome ego and so banish all suffering. It's very interesting. I like syncretic belief systems (combinations of religions) and two of my favourite religions are hinduism and buddhism. Yes, that is what I am saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1United Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 What the fuck does that mean? Sounds like gnostic b/s to me with the deluge being the false god. You in no way rebutted the fact that some one like Robertson or the thankfully late Farwell disagree with you. Your beginning to sound like Troy. It means that God is All in All. [Nothing exists apart from God] Are you suggesting that the orthodox view is correct, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1United Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 Okay, but you're still missing one important part. You talked about transgression against God's law, and that was the definition of "sin". Now, why is it so important for you to avoid sin? Why does your ego want to avoid sin? No, not avoid - [learn] from sin and suffering. Sin is beneficial in that when we are mindful, we come to see what sin entails. Through Spirit, we become aware of our actions [mindful] hence, spirit helps reconcile us with God. [Harmony] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 [ I think I finally understand what you believe and what you are saying. You are saying that God poured out his spirit on the human race. He did this by creating a perfect, sinless man who was filled with God's spirit. The crucifixion is not really important, all that stuff about sacrifice to pay for the sins of human race is human misunderstandings and nonsense. But the resurrection is what was important - because this resurrection allowed God's spirit to come to all of Jesus' followers and give them eternal life. Is this what you believe/are saying? Yes, that is what I am saying... Then you must demonstrate by some means other than your subjective feeling that this perfect sinless man actually existed. You have also divided God -- despite what you say. If we are all God -- or a part of God -- as you say, there would be no need for a "Christ" to resurrect. How would God's spirit be disallowed to parts of him? This does not make sense, and it really started not making sense when you used the word "Christ" and linked it to a man named Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Really? Did science explain what before Big Bang was? Or you just accept as a fact that the Big Bang and some great catastrophic explosion from the middle of Nowhere created the time and matter and it started to self-organize. For the sake of Jesus grow up! Grow up? Fuck you idiot retard, HOW THE FUCK does your retarded, fucked over by the RCC church buybull, PROVE any goddamned thing at all? Your just a cow, mooing grazing around, eating whatever the hell is fed to you. Prove your fucking adsentee god exisits FIRST then maybe we *might* take you seriously. Your as messed up in the mind as David Koresh or Jim Jones. Do us all a favor and drink the damned koolaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1United Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 So the person Jesus was a part of God like all the rest of us, but somehow from his "birth" he was especially favored by having "Christ" in him. Why? Why don't we all have this? Please don't evade this question by saying "he just had it." "Many are called - few are chosen" [Jesus was chosen by God to be a light for mankind, so that the [many] could learn from the Master. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 So at what point was Jesus associated with "Christ" and how? Jesus always contained Christ within Him, but like us, He also grew in that Spirit. He never sinned, but He grew in understanding through the spirit He possessed. Are you trying to say Jesus never sinned? Never, not ever? Never got a woody from looking at Mary Magdeline? Was he gay? What if your own bible says he sinned? Let's go to sundaze skool. Care to look up the book of Isaiah. Butter and honey he shall eat until he knows to refuse the evil and choose the good. For before the child shall know to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land that you loathe shall be forsaken before both its kings. (Isa 7:15-16) You can't refuse evil unless you know evil. before he learns to do good, the land will be forsaken, in his youth. that means jesus was a little prick in his youth--which conincides with some texts the catholic church did not place in the NT. those texts refer to christ as a evil god child killing and resurrecting animals and playmates. Now does that sound like the messiah never sinned to you? This is taken from the passage xtians use to claim the prophecy of the coming of jesus. so, Jesus committed sin cuz the babble says so and it is true and without error, yes? well, too bad the relgion even got his name wrong. if jesus lived then he was a man with a woody no matter which way his orientation swang! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1United Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 That's your imagination - that is not proof. "Proof" is not a feeling. You don't "feel" proof. Geezus!!!! Get a life. Talk about making stuff up on the spot. Spatz Experience is not feeling - experience is knowledge verified through living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Okay, but you're still missing one important part. You talked about transgression against God's law, and that was the definition of "sin". Now, why is it so important for you to avoid sin? Why does your ego want to avoid sin? No, not avoid - [learn] from sin and suffering. Sin is beneficial in that when we are mindful, we come to see what sin entails. Through Spirit, we become aware of our actions [mindful] hence, spirit helps reconcile us with God. [Harmony] Ah. Okay. I will let your ideas perculate in my head a bit. It's quite different from any traditional Christian dogma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_Scarevangelist Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Really? Did science explain what before Big Bang was? Or you just accept as a fact that the Big Bang and some great catastrophic explosion from the middle of Nowhere created the time and matter and it started to self-organize. For the sake of Jesus grow up! Grow up? Fuck you idiot retard, HOW THE FUCK does your retarded, fucked over by the RCC church buybull, PROVE any goddamned thing at all? Your just a cow, mooing grazing around, eating whatever the hell is fed to you. What do you try to show me? That you have a demon? Come on, you are on the right way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Sin is beneficial in that when we are mindful, we come to see what sin entails. Oh no, he's using one of my favorite words. Man, you believe in magic and yet you are going to speak of entailment. That strikes me as ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparrow Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Yes, I am a heretic by traditional standards .... You flatter yourself. Spatz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 yeah? Where's your proof? Remember, YOU are the asserter here, prove it. Proof comes when one lives through Spirit, and tames ego. I can't prove anything to you, I can only share what I understand. You must find this truth for yourself, or reject it. It is completely up to you; it makes no real difference to me at all. Only, I wish you to see cycle of sin and suffering, and the way out. [salvation] No you cannot prove anything to us at all, and you *never* will be able to because false belief is not provable. No body give a shit what you "understand". "you must find proof yourself" translates to mean "you must brainwash yourself". Most here have been in xtianity for YEARS, more likely longer then you have been breathing air. Being 46 myself, I was likely an xtian longer then you have even been alive. There ARE people here who were clergy, ministers, and devote followers. You do not know who it is you speak to, this is why you are getting your ASS severely handed to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 So the person Jesus was a part of God like all the rest of us, but somehow from his "birth" he was especially favored by having "Christ" in him. Why? Why don't we all have this? Please don't evade this question by saying "he just had it." "Many are called - few are chosen" [Jesus was chosen by God to be a light for mankind, so that the [many] could learn from the Master. I use a zippo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWIM Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 What do you try to show me? That you have a demon? Come on, you are on the right way. That's right I'm a big fuckin hardass demon. Well, at least you can SEE me and TALK to me, where's your angels? Wheres the holy fuckin spook?, isn't *it* supposed to be giving you the power to defeat me? LOL Good luck with that asshole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparrow Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 You want proof? Here it is: Jesus DID live and there are documents describing his existence! Which documents? Listen dude, there's no documents - there wouldn't be a discussion if there was - the point would be answered. And even if there was proof of a "jesus", it doesn't make him "god" or "christ" or "anything". Now stop making things up - stop lying - you're supposed to be a christian remember - isn't lying wrong? Spatz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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