Home Schooling

[MathGeek]

I was mulling over this topic recently...and I came to an interesting conclusion. It's so brilliant, why don't the creationists take my advice so they can freely worship in their own way, away from the public sphere?

 

Let's say Joe "Schmo" Genesis-Thumper hates the local schoolhouse because his children are being poisoned by the heathen doctrines of liberalism and humanism. So he withdrawals his spawn from the district to privatize their education in some way. To ensure that these rejects stay out of the public schools, why doesn't the city or state pay the parents their share back in property taxes to ensure that this kid is educated. I think it's fair proposition to suggest. If you home school your kids, you shouldn't have to pay the percentage of taxes that go to support the school district. The parent must use the money to educate the child, so some kind of enforcement apparatus must be enacted to ensure that this bureaucratic shell game would actually work. I figure there are several problems with making this suggestion, but I am too tired to think of them right now.

 

Discuss this subject amongst yourselves.

[dunany77]

Discuss this subject amongst yourselves.

You make a good point. We live in Ontario and have to pay taxes to either the public school board or the catholic school board. There is no option to take your tax money and use it for homechooling - which sucks for homeschoolers. One of the advantages of paying the taxes is that homeschoolers still have access to the public system like taking French classes or using the gym and the library, so it's not like they kick you out.

 

We have done so much research on the topic and have really scrutinized both sides of the issue. We honestly think homeschooling is the best choice for our kids. My oldest is 4 1/2, and she can already read at a grade 1 level. She is super social and is often the only kid at the park who can talk or who wants to interact with other kids. We are primarily going to be teaching her English and Math in a structured way and we definitely want her to take some French immersion classes. The rest of her education will be based on where her interests take her. Right now we are reading The Hobbit together, and she loves to act out the scenes after we finish a chapter. That can translate into all kinds of areas like art, politics, science, nature, geography (she is very interested in the map at the back of the book).

 

Last month she was very interested in giant squids. So we went online and learned all about them, where they came from , what they eat, their classification etc. I know she's probably too young right now to remember most of it, but the goal is to encourage her to ask questions, and then give her the tools to go and get the answers. Everyone at our local library knows her and she loves to go there and get books and videos. We are also going to be moving soon and are looking for an area that has a very good homeschool network so she can do outings and activities with other kids and learn stuff that we can't teach at home.

[Guest Zenobia]

I was homeschooled...and I'm not crazy about the way it was done. In my case, I finished highschool a year early, and could have done it much sooner except I was lazy...lol... spent most of the time riding my horse.

 

But I do believe it can be done properly. The key is to make sure your kids have plenty of social activities and interaction with other children.

[Ramen666]

I don't like it because two many times it is tied to religious fundamentalism and it is a tool just to brainwash children....but 2 posts above me said something genius it does get it out of the public sphere the push of religious parents so........I don't know I really never thought of that...however the kids will be raised fundamentalist and may become fundamentalist's.

[Naughtyhamster]

Exactly!Nobody looks over their shoulder to see *what* is being teached.OTOH Home schooling *might* be a better option then public school if you live in a very bad area, like a bad area of detroit or something. IF the home schooling is not bible oriented AND the parents are qualified to teach, then maybe so, hell I might have went that route if I had been living in a very bad area. It's the xtian *spin* xtian home schoolers put on things that make the xtian home schooler a *very* bad thing. Also, teaching ID and creationism and calling *evolution* a falsehood is really, really bad.And like you say gramps, how do you police these people?

 

 

That's what happened in my situation. My grandmother was concerned not just about the pervy and alcoholic tearchers that were teaching in the public junior high that I attending for five months ( before being pulled out for homeschooling), but also the ones at private schools. I had my heart set on going to Christian private school as I thought wearing a uniform would prevent teasing, but after my grandmother noticed the kids looked too timid and saw one kid act innappropriately with a classmate* right in front of her during a tour she was dead set against it.

 

* The boy groped a girl in a manner which made my grandmother think he might have been sexually abused, and the kids being timid was also a sign of abuse in her mind.

[Xerces]

As long as they aren't biased christians that will teach everything even if it disagrees with their beliefs. They should know what to teach their kid too, and how to do it.

 

Also, if its too much strain to take your kid to social groups, put them in public school please, don't be a dipshit.

[Crazy Donna]

Wow, this thread is really old!

 

I have a real problem with home schooling. I was home schooled for the first six years of my education. My mother made sure I had no interaction with other kids and also ensured that I never watched television. This must have been to ensure that when I got to high school (a state school) I would be bullied relentlessly and have no social skills. I learned all my social skills in high school, but it was damn hard. If I'd even spent a couple of years early on in the state system, I'd have been much better.

 

Home schooling ruined my life. From the first week of high school, I wanted to kill myself. I felt like that for over a decade. It has never left me.

 

My 'education' at home was piss poor. My parents would deviate from the state curriculum and do their own thing. As a result, I got to high school and could not do basic grade six mathematics. If I'd been in the state system, at least someone could have intervened earlier and I would have had a chance to catch up.

 

Furthermore, my parents considered beating me with a belt to be 'educational'. I have no doubt that what I experienced was abuse. If I'd been in the state system, perhaps someone would have noticed. But no such luck. It's taken me over a decade to come to terms with it.

 

So you can say all sorts of positive things about home schooling, but the reality is that it gives free rein to radical idiots to abuse their kids, neglect their education, and use them as free labour at home while they should be learning. If the kid has good, responsible, caring parents, home schooling shouldn't be an issue. But if they have parents like mine, well, the kids' pretty much fucked, aren't they?

[wannabewriterB]

As a future teacher, I can say that teachers DO take into account different learning styles and intelligences. Some kids learn verbally; others learn by doing. Teachers are professionals

who have been trained to teach. They know how to use background knowledge to enhance learning. They know how to correct misconceptions without killing a kid's confidence. Let me reapeat...they are professionals. Teaching your own children..especially multiple children at different ages and abilities..is close to acting as your own doctor or lawyer. And we all know what we think of those people.

 

About 1% of the population probably has the skills, education and competency to teach 6 different high school courses to a child. And of all the homeschoolers I've met, I've never met anyone who struck me as probably being in that 1%.

 

Let the pros handle it!

[XcaliburGirl]

I don't have an answer for this.

 

I was homeschooled. As far as the basics, I got 1400 on the SAT ("old"-style Math/Verbal scoring), which is considered fairly good. As an adult, I've never felt less equipped than those around me who went to public school. I also took logic which has come in handy. The most important lesson homeschooling taught me was how to be an autodidact. My parents "unwittingly" gave me the tools to think and learn for myself, which lead to my rejection of their religion. For that, I am very grateful to them. They didn't really appreciate that when I told them, though.

 

However, I feel kind of cheated now, not learning about evolution. Everything I knew about it was from Answers in Genesis and Hank Hanegraaff's "FACE". Also, I was painfully shy. Some of that is personality. I am still an introvert, but I have learned how to handle myself in social situations.

 

In general, I think if homeschooling is done right, it can be more effective than public school. On the other hand, children are left at the mercy of whatever their potentially delusional parents want them to believe. I broke away from fundamentalism, but I do not know anyone else who has, aside from a few kids who just wanted to rebel.

[JadedAtheist]

Christians who home school generally do it with the "that'll do" attitude they take to everything else. In other words it can be really really bad. Then again, I've seen a lot of children come out of home schooling better than most kids that go to a regular school. A good portion of the kids of my former church finished High School a year or two earlier, some several years earlier. One finished university by the time his next door neighbor (who was the same age) finished high school.

 

I think if you have the time and the energy it would be worthwhile home schooling your children. The only concern I'd have is that they'd socialize enough.

[JadedAtheist]

I agree with you. As I said, my only concern in home schooling children is making sure they have people to hang out with their own age. It'd suck to only have mum and dad as your sole friends Their friends like their schooling would be under direct supervision of me which I rather than having my child influenced by people I don't want them near. In the end I doubt I'd do home schooling unless I hook up with a rich chick or I win the lottery or something to that effect. We both would probably have to work.

[RankStranger]

Are there any stats available on home-schooled kids compared to public-schooled kids? And are they apples-to-apples comparisons (i.e. representative samples rather than cream-of-the-crop from either category)... or is that even possible?

 

'Cause I have mixed feelings on this issue. On one hand, like BO I'm HIGHLY skeptical of this 'experts only' mentality... not just in education, but lots of fields. I AM an expert in my field- you won't find a better diesel mechanic than me... and I manage to be wrong now and then. I've even had barely-literate truck drivers correct me. And I've also corrected experienced engineers who should be VASTLY more knowledgeable than I am. I've seen dentists be wrong... and doctors... and engineers... and lawyers. That's not to say I know more than they do- I don't. But they're not infallible either.

 

And teachers? Oh I had some real winners when I was in school. And I've been in college classes with plenty of education majors. They're NOT the cream-of-the-crop. I'd say they're barely average among college students.

 

But on the other hand, I have met some home-schooled kids in college- and they're often dangerously naive and socially inept. I think that's something that home-schoolers need to guard against.

[Serendipity Rose]

But I agree about the policing. I don't do home schooling myself, so I can't really answer for how they control what the kids learn. There is a curriculum they have to follow, and there are tests they have to pass, so in general they learn the same things as the kids in public school or they wouldn't be able to pass the exams. I do think creationist Christians do take a different approach to subjects like evolution and sex-ed.

 

What is to stop them from cheating on these exams? Since they are at home and all... Or do they have to go somewhere else to take the test?

 

Hi Swim,

 

I homeschooled my 3 sons. We just decided to try it out because we moved to a new area (THE SOUTH!) and I was shocked at the number of obnoxious christian homeschoolers. I had no idea that homeschooling even started as a movement from the christian reconstructionists. We just chose to do it for convenience and because it was a good fit for my energetic young boys that loved learning everything they could up until I sent them to school and that squashed their energetic curiosity. To get away from the psychos I started a secular homeschool group and that movement has grown a lot in the last 5 years as well. Just a little background info before I respond to your question.

 

But back to your question. See, the point of testing is SUPPOSED to be to figure out if the student is learning the material so that the teacher can see if they are making their point so that the students get it. Unfortunately in schools it doesn't work that way. You test for a grade in schools. Grades don't really tell you anything about what the child knows. Many very intelligent kids never do well and even drop out of school because school isn't able to bend to meet the needs of so many kids. Our education system has barely even changed since it was invented in the stone ages. Well, almost that long ago.

 

In homeschooling, even if the parent isn't a qualified teacher and may not even remember all that crap from school, there are TONS of curriculum, many written especially for homeschoolers, that guides the student along with their studies. Fortunately many homeschoolers are teachers (yes, they, too, pull their kids out of school) and they are finally writing some secular materials for homeschoolers so we don't have to take a black marker to all of the christian curriculum or have to endure the school curriculum that was designed for 30 kids per class. Many homeschoolers also supplement the areas their kids need more help with by hiring tutors or doing educational co-ops where the parents can share teaching to give the kiddo's a break from Mom or Dad (yes, Dad's do it sometimes too).

 

What would be the point for a homeschooler to cheat on a test if they weren't working for a grade?

 

On a side-note, I have met SO many atheists that were previously raised in conservative homeschools.

[Serendipity Rose]

But I agree about the policing. I don't do home schooling myself, so I can't really answer for how they control what the kids learn. There is a curriculum they have to follow, and there are tests they have to pass, so in general they learn the same things as the kids in public school or they wouldn't be able to pass the exams. I do think creationist Christians do take a different approach to subjects like evolution and sex-ed.

 

What is to stop them from cheating on these exams? Since they are at home and all... Or do they have to go somewhere else to take the test?

 

Hi Swim,

 

I homeschooled my 3 sons. We just decided to try it out because we moved to a new area (THE SOUTH!) and I was shocked at the number of obnoxious christian homeschoolers. I had no idea that homeschooling even started as a movement from the christian reconstructionists. We just chose to do it for convenience and because it was a good fit for my energetic young boys that loved learning everything they could up until I sent them to school and that squashed their energetic curiosity. To get away from the psychos I started a secular homeschool group and that movement has grown a lot in the last 5 years as well. Just a little background info before I respond to your question.

 

But back to your question. See, the point of testing is SUPPOSED to be to figure out if the student is learning the material so that the teacher can see if they are making their point so that the students get it. Unfortunately in schools it doesn't work that way. You test for a grade in schools. Grades don't really tell you anything about what the child knows. Many very intelligent kids never do well and even drop out of school because school isn't able to bend to meet the needs of so many kids. Our education system has barely even changed since it was invented in the stone ages. Well, almost that long ago.

 

In homeschooling, even if the parent isn't a qualified teacher and may not even remember all that crap from school, there are TONS of curriculum, many written especially for homeschoolers, that guides the student along with their studies. Fortunately many homeschoolers are teachers (yes, they, too, pull their kids out of school) and they are finally writing some secular materials for homeschoolers so we don't have to take a black marker to all of the christian curriculum or have to endure the school curriculum that was designed for 30 kids per class. Many homeschoolers also supplement the areas their kids need more help with by hiring tutors or doing educational co-ops where the parents can share teaching to give the kiddo's a break from Mom or Dad (yes, Dad's do it sometimes too).

 

What would be the point for a homeschooler to cheat on a test if they weren't working for a grade?

 

On a side-note, I have met SO many atheists that were previously raised in conservative homeschools.

 

Oh, I forgot to add, I homeschooled my 3 sons WITHOUT even having a college education and two out of the three of them are in college. The other one graduates this year and will likely be going to college as well. Not bad considering neither of their parents have a college education though they have inspired me to go back to college myself now.

[Guest Valk0010]

My two big problems with homeschooling, is no offence to parents, its allows kids only one environment, no contradictory worldview to challenge the thoughts of the parents, take for example a really fundamentalist christian household who hates atheists. But said kid goes to school and meets a atheist, then realized wait they aren't all that worth hating. If the kid is just homeschooled then well he gets no exposure to the real world, the kid just gets parents world.

 

The other part is social skills, while i have never really investigated it, so I don't have a strong opinion on it, but I would guess homeschooling stunts social growth.

[Serendipity Rose]

My two big problems with homeschooling, is no offence to parents, its allows kids only one environment, no contradictory worldview to challenge the thoughts of the parents, take for example a really fundamentalist christian household who hates atheists. But said kid goes to school and meets a atheist, then realized wait they aren't all that worth hating. If the kid is just homeschooled then well he gets no exposure to the real world, the kid just gets parents world.

 

The other part is social skills, while i have never really investigated it, so I don't have a strong opinion on it, but I would guess homeschooling stunts social growth.

 

Socialization is school is a myth. Kids are limited to the age groups that they can interact with. Homeschool kids don't just stay at home. They are out on the field trips that school kids only dream about. There are tons of homeschool groups in our area and though some of the activities are planned for certain age-groups sometimes, all homeschool kids get to interact with other kids of all ages. This is even true for the fundy homeschoolers.

 

There is a concern with fundy kids only being taught what the parents believe but the extreme problem parents aren't any different than problem parents that send their kids to school.

 

Take a look at what secular homeschoolers are doing. http://secularhomeschool.com

[LivingLife]

OT:

Wow old thread, one of my old friends Kratos (on page 1) died shortly after this from liver cancer. He was a good guy.

 

I think the education system has failed worldwide. Homeschooling is an option if one parent can take up the burden. I tried it with my son and was not successful but he has life skills his mates do not have.

[Xerces]

I have spoken with many college professors from different fields. Most have told me that the best students they have had are either from private schools or home schools. I don't buy the institutional line that teachers are pros and are only qualified to teach. If the parent wants to home school and the kids can pass the standardized test, that kind of flies in the face of the institutional line from the educational establishment.

 

A lot of parents half ass it too, what parent is going to have the time to invest in teaching their kid everything they need to know? This is not counting the time that should be invested in helping build the social life of the child, as well as any other activities such as sports or music, field trips etc. If a parent has the knowledge and the time, and is willing to drop everything to raise their kid that way, then maybe it would be fine, but I don't know of anyone that puts that much effort into it. Which leaves the child at a disadvantage, the only reason you probably heard that they are the best students is because they are the most eager to learn because of being educationally neglected.

[Guest Valk0010]

My two big problems with homeschooling, is no offence to parents, its allows kids only one environment, no contradictory worldview to challenge the thoughts of the parents, take for example a really fundamentalist christian household who hates atheists. But said kid goes to school and meets a atheist, then realized wait they aren't all that worth hating. If the kid is just homeschooled then well he gets no exposure to the real world, the kid just gets parents world.

 

The other part is social skills, while i have never really investigated it, so I don't have a strong opinion on it, but I would guess homeschooling stunts social growth.

 

Socialization is school is a myth. Kids are limited to the age groups that they can interact with. Homeschool kids don't just stay at home. They are out on the field trips that school kids only dream about. There are tons of homeschool groups in our area and though some of the activities are planned for certain age-groups sometimes, all homeschool kids get to interact with other kids of all ages. This is even true for the fundy homeschoolers.

 

There is a concern with fundy kids only being taught what the parents believe but the extreme problem parents aren't any different than problem parents that send their kids to school.

 

Take a look at what secular homeschoolers are doing. http://secularhomeschool.com

Even oppositely, the same could be said about secular parents, the kid is just getting one secular worldview and not being exposed to anything else.

[Xerces]

 

 

Socialization is school is a myth. Kids are limited to the age groups that they can interact with. Homeschool kids don't just stay at home. They are out on the field trips that school kids only dream about. There are tons of homeschool groups in our area and though some of the activities are planned for certain age-groups sometimes, all homeschool kids get to interact with other kids of all ages. This is even true for the fundy homeschoolers.

 

There is a concern with fundy kids only being taught what the parents believe but the extreme problem parents aren't any different than problem parents that send their kids to school.

 

Take a look at what secular homeschoolers are doing. http://secularhomeschool.com

 

Even true for fundy homeschoolers? Yea you're right and they only get to interact with people the parents deem appropriate, aka other christards.

[Xerces]

 

Oh, I forgot to add, I homeschooled my 3 sons WITHOUT even having a college education and two out of the three of them are in college. The other one graduates this year and will likely be going to college as well. Not bad considering neither of their parents have a college education though they have inspired me to go back to college myself now.

 

Because its easy to get accepted into college, whether you do well in college is another story.

[Xerces]

 

 

My point is that you are who you are despite your circumstances. Some people are outgoing and others are not. Some people are weird and others are not...the difference is, when a child ends up like you did, the blame is placed on almost the entire home schooling community and it is complete bull. Doing so is irrational and also ignores the anti-social behavior of many public schooled children...who is to blame for that?

 

 

 

Despite the circumstances? Please tell that to the many people that have been abused one way or another from being home-schooled. Home schooling is essentially putting the kid in a bubble, there is no way for them to build knowledge about the outside world and how to survive in it when the parents are the arbiters of what their kids do and do not experience. Just because you state that some public schooled kids are anti social only leads me to think they are depressed or for some other reason.

[Xerces]

Xerces,

 

How many people have you gotten to know who home school? Have you ever looked into home school programs? My daughter has been mainly private schooled and was home schooled. She is scoring in the top levels of math, science, and very highly in English, Spanish, and social sciences, like civics and government, and even had the lead role in the school plays. Her academics have blown away her peers on state standardized tests.

 

If you actually explore the home schooling programs, you might be shocked just how good some of the curriculum is and it is not all isolated in the home. There are some areas the parents just are not as good at so another parent will double up and teach a couple of kids besides their own. I have a friend who teaches Karate to home schooled kids and works out to about 5 Dojos of anywhere from 10 to 25 students each. He said they are the most attentive and polite kids as well as the ones who pick up on what they are supposed to do of any kids he has ever taught.

 

Before you pass judgment, you may wish to do some research: http://www.homeschoo...l.com/hsorg.htm

 

 

So "mainly" private schooled, with some home schooling? How is that in favor of home school? Those tests they send in the mail are a joke, parents can easily "help" their kids with the tests and send them back. Also, going to karate is not the same as being exposed to all the people and responsibilities in a public school atmosphere.

 

If there were tighter laws on home schooling it might be viable, but right now its a haven for parents who don't want to provide their kids with a proper education and the government should step in.

[Serendipity Rose]

Even true for fundy homeschoolers? Yea you're right and they only get to interact with people the parents deem appropriate, aka other christards.

 

Would it be any different if they sent their kids to school? Maybe in some cases. But like I said, if homeschooling were outlawed or it was made very difficult to do to prevent people from doing it, the fundies would still just form their own little private schools. After all, they've got the financial support of millions of poor and middle class people supporting their cause.

[Serendipity Rose]

Are there any stats available on home-schooled kids compared to public-schooled kids? And are they apples-to-apples comparisons (i.e. representative samples rather than cream-of-the-crop from either category)... or is that even possible?

 

'Cause I have mixed feelings on this issue. On one hand, like BO I'm HIGHLY skeptical of this 'experts only' mentality... not just in education, but lots of fields. I AM an expert in my field- you won't find a better diesel mechanic than me... and I manage to be wrong now and then. I've even had barely-literate truck drivers correct me. And I've also corrected experienced engineers who should be VASTLY more knowledgeable than I am. I've seen dentists be wrong... and doctors... and engineers... and lawyers. That's not to say I know more than they do- I don't. But they're not infallible either.

 

And teachers? Oh I had some real winners when I was in school. And I've been in college classes with plenty of education majors. They're NOT the cream-of-the-crop. I'd say they're barely average among college students.

 

But on the other hand, I have met some home-schooled kids in college- and they're often dangerously naive and socially inept. I think that's something that home-schoolers need to guard against.

 

Here's a link to some stats. http://www.letshomeschool.com/articles39.html

 

Honestly, I don't think homeschooling is necessarily better or worse, it's just another educational option. Public school has it's pros and cons and so does public school, virtual school and home schooling. Screwed up kids happen in all of those situations. People do the best they can.

 

I think that the majority of parents care about their children's future and make the choices that are best for them. All parents are capable of making some bad choices but the key is to recognizing that what you're doing isn't working and finding a way to fix it when you do.

 

I do think that some of those kids who are likely to fall through the cracks, the extremely shy and the hyper for example, have a much greater chance at a better education in a home school than if they were to go to school in many cases. But still, it just depends on the school district, the teachers and the parents ability to get in there and make sure their kids get what they need. There were just too many "if's" for my boys and homeschooling was a better option for us.

 

IF there were radical changes to the way we educate our children, THEN I would say that most people that would choose to homeschool their children might be the fundies that want to prevent their children from finding out about the world. But you know what? When the actually DO go out into the world, they get a real education and it doesn't matter any more.

 

What do YOU remember about your education?