Baha'i Faith: New World Religion

[Grandpa Harley]

just in case Kamal missed it - Proof of animal homosexuality

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RlTAyNI8WE

 

WATCH THE VIDEO KAMAL

[Grandpa Harley]

just in case Kamal missed it - Proof of animal homosexuality

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RlTAyNI8WE

 

WATCH THE VIDEO KAMAL

[Purple]

I was thinking about this today, (yeah maybe I have a problem, but that's for another discussion) seems to me Kamal has made three blunders in this thread. For his convenience I will list them here neatly. I will start with one no one has brought to his attention yet;

 

1) Using the pig as an insult. Pigs are wonderful noble beast much maligned in both western and middle eastern cultures. It is wrong to use the pig as an insult. Pigs are pretty intelligent mammals, they are quite cute, they actaully do not like being dirty as many believe and will only roll in mud if shade is unavaliable. Unlike other fur covered mammals, pigs are more like us and have very little body hair or fur, and will burn if they have to stay out in the sun. Rolling in mud does not speak to their uncleanliness as many people falsely contend, but in fact speaks to their intelligence in making use of what they have as a sunscreen.

 

2) This was already pointed out, but it appears Kamal missed it. Kamal insisted "all" countries have the death penalty for treason. Now if the numbers were high for this I might put it down to exageration and not an outright mistake, but this is not so. I did a little reserch, granted not a full study. From what I can gather all of Europe has abolished the death penalty completely, as has Australia, Canada and Mexico. Several countries in Africa have also abolished it completely so has Greenland and Iceland. That is only a partial list of those that have abolished the death penalty COMPLETELY. I don't think I am eurocentric, I'm not even European, but if ALL of Europe, including the British Iles has abolished something, saying every country does this is more than an exageration, it's a blunder.

 

3) Last, but not least, Kamal stated that we have not seen homosexuality in nature, this was disputed with video evidence. Some of us have, and could further decimate this view. It is a falsehood, in fact homosexual behavior does happen in nature in many species.

Kamal watch the vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RlTAyNI8WE

 

When you are done watching the video, do please come back and admit your mistakes. When you admit you were wrong about these things, you will show you have learned something and I for one will gain a lot of respect for you. Once you have learned how your point of view is wrong in these areas we can continue to have a civil conversation without any nasty name calling, or the putting down of the cute lil piggies.

 

Kamal if you just go, that will be dissappointing, but expected. This action will prove you are a closed minded coward that, language barrier not withstanding, cannot handle mature discussion or debate.

 

If you attempt to continue the disscussion ignoring your own mistakes you will show yourself to be disingenuous. This being the case there is no reason to reason with you furthur, you refuse to learn anything.

[kamal]

I use dial up and it's too slow so to see it entirely take a long time. So I just saw first minute of the movie.

 

These kinds of movies don't prove your purpose. I have seen frequently those actions between ships and cows by myself eyes but never came to my mind homosexuality. They do such movements without any real intercourse because it is physically impossible in most cases. Sex is not an aimless action, even between animals. Humans do sex for pleasure and reproduction, but animals do it only for reproduction, so most of wild animals do sex in limited time along the year.

Nevertheless animals aren't our teachers; otherwise you have to say fucking moms, sisters, daughters and aunts is legal because animals do sex whit their relatives.

[kamal]

Watch the video Kamal

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RlTAyNI8WE

 

 

as to your question... I'll answer the wager with a question Kamal... what if you've picked the wrong god? OK, I don't worship ANY god, but you've made your choice... what will that God do to you for picking the WRONG god? Hmm? Me, if there's a god, I'm maybe screwed, but I've not gone worshipping another god... You've chosen a God to sell... if you've chosen the wrong god, then you're just making it worse... not only have you worshipped the wrong god, but you've sold him to other people... oooh... now if I were that god I'd be more angry with you than me, since I'm just stupid, and never saw there was a god... but you KNEW there was a god and then went off with the wrong one... oh boy... you're in deep shit... no 72 virgins...

Your answer is acceptable if I've picketed the wrong God deliberately.

But my dear

According to my religion thoughts, hereafter punishments and remunerations based on intents not on our deeds. So if I was honest in my claim, I've done my duty and result is not important.

 

Please note to this sections of holy Quran:

 

Those who believe and perform honorable deeds [will find] we never assign any soul more than it can cope with. Those will become inhabitants of the Garden; they will live in it for ever. 7:24

 

We only assign a soul something it can cope with. Before Us lies a Book which speaks up for Truth; they will not be dealt with unjustly.23: 26

[hereticzero]

I use dial up and it's too slow so to see it entirely take a long time. So I just saw first minute of the movie.

 

These kinds of movies don't prove your purpose. I have seen frequently those actions between ships and cows by myself eyes but never came to my mind homosexuality. They do such movements without any real intercourse because it is physically impossible in most cases. Sex is not an aimless action, even between animals. Humans do sex for pleasure and reproduction, but animals do it only for reproduction, so most of wild animals do sex in limited time along the year.

Nevertheless animals aren't our teachers; otherwise you have to say fucking moms, sisters, daughters and aunts is legal because animals do sex whit their relatives.

 

Animals do have sex for pleasure. You obviously never spend time looking at animals. Humans are not the only animal that enjoys sex. Here's an example:

 

or

 

 

Watch the movie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RlTAyNI8WE

[SWIM]

They do such movements without any real intercourse because it is physically impossible in most cases. Sex is not an aimless action, even between animals. Humans do sex for pleasure and reproduction, but animals do it only for reproduction, so most of wild animals do sex in limited time along the year.

Nevertheless animals aren't our teachers; otherwise you have to say fucking moms, sisters, daughters and aunts is legal because animals do sex whit their relatives.

 

I guess you missed the part where one chimp blows the other chimp....

 

 

sigh...

[SWIM]

So let me get this straight. Skam-all is applying Pascal's wager to Islam. Christians apply it to Christianity. That certainly clears things up for people looking for an eternal insurance policy.

 

 

That's exactly what kamal-toe is saying, follow or else...

 

Only instead of a cute gecko for the company rep., its a screaming sand-rat with an AK-47....

[Thackerie]

... According to my religion thoughts, hereafter punishments and remunerations based on intents not on our deeds. So if I was honest in my claim, I've done my duty and result is not important. ...

 

Oh, goodie! Then none of us here have anything to worry about. We all looked at christianity honestly, gave it an honest try, and honestly arrived where the evidence led - that is, to non-belief in christianity and it's various offshoots.

 

A while back, there was a forum concerning what question would you ask god if it turns out there is such a thing. One of our big thinkers (sorry, I forget which one) said something like, "I'd ask, 'if you had been in my place, what would you have believed, given the evidence?'." That struck me as profound.

 

If there were a god judging us, it would know what was in each person's mind and judge on character - not on whether or not the person professed belief in a specific set of manmade dogma. That makes sense.

 

Believing that the creator of the universe needs or wants the worship of tiny, insignificant creatures on a tiny, insignificant planet and even cares about such trifles as whether one points his ass in the right direction while reciting his daily five prayers per schedule? That's just silly.

[Sophronia]

What is Witch? More detail please

 

Here, this link might help explain:

 

http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=us...cs&id=11793

 

and then you can continue your education with this:

 

http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=us...ics&id=2870

 

Let me know when you have read those pages. I will be giving a written quiz, so you might want to take notes. Happy studying!

[Ouroboros]

I use dial up and it's too slow so to see it entirely take a long time. So I just saw first minute of the movie.

 

These kinds of movies don't prove your purpose. I have seen frequently those actions between ships and cows by myself eyes but never came to my mind homosexuality. They do such movements without any real intercourse because it is physically impossible in most cases. Sex is not an aimless action, even between animals. Humans do sex for pleasure and reproduction, but animals do it only for reproduction, so most of wild animals do sex in limited time along the year.

Nevertheless animals aren't our teachers; otherwise you have to say fucking moms, sisters, daughters and aunts is legal because animals do sex whit their relatives.

So you say that animals do not have the pleasure center in the brain like humans, or the endorphins or any other bodily chemicals that give humans the emotions? Funny. Very strange. The sex drive, from what I learned, is the same in humans and animals. They feel the need for sex, the desires, just like us. Basically, I don't know what scientific study you base you idea that animals only do it for reproduction. How do they know? Do they think "Oh, I will only have sex for reproduction, because it would be immoral to do it for pleasure only?" Are you saying they have a capacity for morality, and they are even completely able to follow it? Wow. Humans are more animals than animals!

 

Why I think your argument is bogus is because in one of the videos, there's a chimp that get a frog, and he uses the frog as a sex-toy. Seriously. Is that done because he only thinks of reproduction? He wants to make sweet love with this frog and have chrog or frimp offspring?

[Ouroboros]

Your answer is acceptable if I've picketed the wrong God deliberately.

So, if someone believes in the wrong God or don't believe in God at all, because they don't have enough knowledge, or just happened to be born in the wrong place, they will go to Heaven too?

 

 

But my dear

According to my religion thoughts, hereafter punishments and remunerations based on intents not on our deeds.

That's actually one of the first acceptable things I've heard from you so far.

 

So if I was honest in my claim, I've done my duty and result is not important.

 

Please note to this sections of holy Quran:

 

Those who believe and perform honorable deeds [will find] we never assign any soul more than it can cope with. Those will become inhabitants of the Garden; they will live in it for ever. 7:24

 

We only assign a soul something it can cope with. Before Us lies a Book which speaks up for Truth; they will not be dealt with unjustly.23: 26

Those verses sounds like a contradiction to what you said. It talks about deeds, and that you have to believe in them.

 

So it means you have to intend to do right, and do right (which Aristotle thought would happen automatically - if you know right, you do right).

 

You never answered me about why Baha'i is persecuted in Iran. You said your country was open to religious ideas, but recently a whole group of Baha'i members were put on trial for their faith. If your book supposedly speak truth and justice, why did you lie to us and why do you treat people unjustly? Do you only preach your book, but not live by it?

[Sophronia]

Your answer is acceptable if I've picketed the wrong God deliberately.

 

One time I picketed the wrong God by accident... got arrested for disturbing the peace. It was a bummer. So I decided to quit picketing Gods and start writing letters to protest instead.

[kamal]

name='Purple' date='Feb 11 2008, 03:39 AM' post='348851

I was thinking about this today, (yeah maybe I have a problem, but that's for another discussion) seems to me Kamal has made three blunders in this thread. For his convenience I will list them here neatly. I will start with one no one has brought to his attention yet

Thanks for your respectful manner.

1) Using the pig as an insult.

I apologize of everyone who was insulted by my words especially of SWIM and I want of her or him to forgive me. I only answered to her or his insults and I mentioned that religious injunctions are valid for their flowers not others.

I will be totally polite and never answer to insults.

Pigs are wonderful noble beast much maligned in both western and Middle Eastern cultures. It is wrong to use the pig as an insult

 

In our culture pigs are sign of people who enjoy looking at their wife to be fucked by strangers.

 

2) This was already pointed out, but it appears Kamal missed it. Kamal insisted "all" countries have the death penalty for treason. Now, if the numbers were high for this I might put it down to exaggeration and not an outright mistake, but this is not so. I did a little research, granted not a full study. From what I can gather all of Europe has abolished the death penalty completely, as has Australia, Canada and Mexico

 

I do not insist all countries have death penalty for treason, but I insist and I'm sure you agree with me that treason is one of the worse behavior may be done by someone especially in love.

And all intellectuals judge that traitors have to be punished. But having no death penalty in some countries is related to their judiciary lows and it does not prove this manner toward criminals and traitors is the best in the word. Unless you claim those country are superior in intellect. Hundred years ago most of countries had death penalty, to day some have and some don't have and in future this low may change and all nations accept it or all reject.

3) Last, but not least, Kamal stated that we have not seen homosexuality in nature, this was disputed with video evidence. Some of us have, and could further decimate this view. It is a falsehood; in fact homosexual behavior does happen in nature in many species.

As I told in my last post, no need to video I have seen frequently such movements by my eyes.

Please prove these manners are not blindly and animal choose to be homosexual as humans do and leave their natural behavior.

[Ouroboros]

Kamal,

 

You're missing quite a lot of arguments and points made in several posts. It's quite hard to argue with you because you don't get it.

 

It's proven, animals have sex for pleasure as well as for procreation. - So you're wrong, I can give you a video, but I have to find it if you really want to see it.

 

Honor killing of a wife because she cheated is not the same as a crime of passion, it's a crime of pride and family traditions.

 

Iran does not allow a pluralistic society with freedom of religion - So you're wrong again.

 

---

 

Oh, I found it:

 

Here's the video of the Chimp and the Frog:

 

To explain what's going on here, a chimp is using a frog to masturbate. Is that for procreation or for pleasure?

[Evolution_beyond]

Please prove these manners are not blindly and animal choose to be homosexual as humans do and leave their natural behavior.

 

Can you choose what you are or are not sexually aroused by? Then the word 'choose' is not accurate here.

 

Blindly or not - one thing that these activities do prove is that there is nothing 'unnatural' about their behaviour - and therefore nothing 'unnatural' about equivalent behaviour in humans.

 

That I think was the point being addressed - not whether they are performing anal sex or whether they are just rubbing - and not whether we can base our morality on the behaviour of animals.

 

But if a desire is natural then you cannot claim that God didn't intend it that way (because God created nature). And if acting on a desire causes no harm to anyone then you cannot really claim that it is wrong.

[Grandpa Harley]

"Please prove these manners are not blindly and animal choose to be homosexual as humans do and leave their natural behavior."

 

Actually, it's down to you to prove the National Geographical Society, one of the most respected scientific organisation in the world (including the Islamic one) is lying about animal behaviour...

 

So, Prove it, Kamal, and it better not be inductive logic or more 'Holy Book' shit... OK?

 

We can wait...

[Purple]

I was thinking about this today, (yeah maybe I have a problem, but that's for another discussion) seems to me Kamal has made three blunders in this thread. For his convenience I will list them here neatly. I will start with one no one has brought to his attention yet

Thanks for your respectful manner.

1) Using the pig as an insult.

I apologize of everyone who was insulted by my words especially of SWIM and I want of her or him to forgive me. I only answered to her or his insults and I mentioned that religious injunctions are valid for their flowers not others.

I will be totally polite and never answer to insults.

Pigs are wonderful noble beast much maligned in both western and Middle Eastern cultures. It is wrong to use the pig as an insult

 

In our culture pigs are sign of people who enjoy looking at their wife to be fucked by strangers.

 

Yes, and your culture is wrong, I wasn't asking you to apologise to the people on this forum, this is the Lion's Den after all. I was saying you, and your culture are wrong about pigs. Seriously pigs do not have wives nor to they wish to see them fucked by strangers.

 

2) This was already pointed out, but it appears Kamal missed it. Kamal insisted "all" countries have the death penalty for treason. Now, if the numbers were high for this I might put it down to exaggeration and not an outright mistake, but this is not so. I did a little research, granted not a full study. From what I can gather all of Europe has abolished the death penalty completely, as has Australia, Canada and Mexico

 

I do not insist all countries have death penalty for treason, but I insist and I'm sure you agree with me that treason is one of the worse behavior may be done by someone especially in love.

And all intellectuals judge that traitors have to be punished. But having no death penalty in some countries is related to their judiciary lows and it does not prove this manner toward criminals and traitors is the best in the word. Unless you claim those country are superior in intellect. Hundred years ago most of countries had death penalty, to day some have and some don't have and in future this low may change and all nations accept it or all reject.

 

Dude don't make me cut and paste, you DID say "All countries" Now if it was some glitch of language ok, but don't tell me you didn't say it.

 

Your exact quote was...

 

Punishment of traitors all over the world is DEATH and love is the most holy of ties in our culture so whom does treason will face the worse punishment.

 

So not all countries, just "all over the world" since 2 whole continents do not have the death penalty, at all, are you still going to stand by this statement you made and insist it is correct? I'm not asking you if the death penalty itself is correct, that a different disscussion. I'm saying, no, this is not so all over the world, it is not even true of most of the world anymore.

 

As for your insistance that treason is one of the worst behaviors, no I'm not sure I do agree. At least not in so far as being a traitor to your country of origin. As for love, that is not a matter for the state to be involved with.

All countries have laws about high treason. It is unlawful and the laws are probably correct and needful, but is it wrong? To be a traitor is wrong only in so far as your country of origin is lawful and just. I was brought up with the belief that a goverment should be a servant of it's people. No govermant can always be 100% correct all the time, All goverments are made up of people, and all people are flawed to some extent. Yet, when a goverment moves away from it's rightful purpose as a servant of it's people, and becomes a servant to itself, and is tyranical and abuses it's people to turn your back on such a goverment is wrong? I am not so sure I agree. In times of unrest one sides traitor can be another sides hero.

I touched breifly above and said treason in love should not be a matter for the state. Although to cheat on a spouse is an unethical thing to do, and although the word treason is applicable it is not commonly used. The thought of the goverment stepping in and putting to death a person because they were unfaithful to their spouse is horrific to me and far more unjust than the "crime" itself. The goverment does not belong in our family, and personal lives. Dude, if your wife is not faithful divorce her and move on, no need to be killing anybody geez.

 

QUOTE

3) Last, but not least, Kamal stated that we have not seen homosexuality in nature, this was disputed with video evidence. Some of us have, and could further decimate this view. It is a falsehood; in fact homosexual behavior does happen in nature in many species.

 

As I told in my last post, no need to video I have seen frequently such movements by my eyes.

Please prove these manners are not blindly and animal choose to be homosexual as humans do and leave their natural behavior.

 

You already said you could not watch the entire video because you are on dail up and it is too slow. That is, despite your denail, evidence that homosexual behavior exists in animals. Now you are re-defining what you mean by "homosexual behavior" now, they have to be doing this for pleasure, not just by instinct. I am wondering if no matter the evidences we bring you if you will ignore or blindly reject them because of a cultural bias. Anyway more eveidence....

 

Sodomy has been stigmatized for century upon century, and in many cultures across the world and through time, mostly seeking to stigmatize relationships between members of the same sex. Almost invariably, when it is criminalized, those who criminalize it (or would do so) refer to it as the "crime against nature" or the "sin against nature." The presumption is that homosexual behavior is a perversion, and a uniquely human perversion, engaged in as the result of what is presumed to be a learned attraction to members of the same sex.

There's only one problem with that assumption: None of it is true.

 

Quoted form here

http://www.bidstrup.com/sodomy.htm

 

Go read, learn educate yourself.

 

I will give you 3 points for apologising for your insults.

 

A minus 20 for refusing to learn anything and trying to spin what you have already said instead of admiting you were wrong.

 

You are still wrong about homosexuality.

 

Although you did not say "all countries" you did say most of the world. This is still wrong.

 

Edited to add Kamal's quote about treason that I was not completely correct about.

[Neon Genesis]

Those who believe and perform honorable deeds [will find] we never assign any soul more than it can cope with. Those will become inhabitants of the Garden; they will live in it for ever. 7:24

 

But I guess this doesn't apply to gay people, right? Because apparently it doesn't matter how honest their intentions are, they're still supposedly evil sinners, worthy of death under your country's laws. How lovely of your god.

 

Please prove these manners are not blindly and animal choose to be homosexual as humans do and leave their natural behavior.

As I've said before, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You're the one making extraordinary claims that homosexuality is unnatural and that animals never have sex for pleasure when all the evidence points to the contrary. Therefore, it is your responsibility to give us your extraordinary evidence that homosexuality is a choice, that homosexuality is unnatural, and that animals never have sex for pleasure. So, we're waiting for it, where is it?

[Grandpa Harley]

He'll be pleading 'I no spik enlis wel'

[♦ nivek ♦]

kamal-san...

 

You loose your soul by talking even over the internet to jareema such as I..

 

Without admitting to several felonies done in various "Middle Eastern" countries, I can say from personal experience what happens when the Mutawwaiin mess with men who don't care to be beaten with little switches and loud voices.

 

"Fuck them"... Not talking 'sexual intercourse', but as in 'fuck them up', 'put the boots to', 'render them wondering how they will handle their penis to piss.

 

Growing weary of reading the continued religious dis-arguments you offer in the place of real discussion.

 

Stuff your religiousness up your ass. Feel free to stay in your wonderful country, one in which people, legally and otherwise are streaming to leave and come to Occidental places.

 

This is a good printed reason you don't fuck Arabs or Persians.

 

kevinFuckingL, world travelled Cosmic Klownie

[The-Captain]

This is a good printed reason you don't fuck Arabs or Persians.

 

 

Worse than I thought...

[kamal]

name='HanSolo' date='Feb 11 2008, 10:46 AM' post='348935'

So you say that animals do not have the pleasure center in the brain like humans, or the endorphins or any other bodily chemicals that give humans the emotions? Funny. Very strange. The sex drive, from what I learned, is the same in humans and animals. They feel the need for sex, the desires, just like us. Basically, I don't know what scientific study you base you idea that animals only do it for reproduction.

I don't know about physical sides of human and animal bodies. Are animals feeling pleasure when they have sex? I don't know. But I know when their instinct commands them to do sex, they only obey it and after that usually reproduction happens. Also I know roosters do sex several times per day and hens often hatch everyday, and I have never seen sex of cats and sparrows at summer, fall and winter. In my area they do it only at springs. If sex was an enjoyable act for them and if they were as same as humans they must do sex frequently during the year.

 

Are you saying they have a capacity for morality, and they are even completely able to follow it? Wow. Humans are more animals than animals!

I'm talking about instinct. Moral and immoral behaviors belong to mankind who feel bit deference between animals and humans.

[Ouroboros]

name='HanSolo' date='Feb 11 2008, 10:46 AM' post='348935'

So you say that animals do not have the pleasure center in the brain like humans, or the endorphins or any other bodily chemicals that give humans the emotions? Funny. Very strange. The sex drive, from what I learned, is the same in humans and animals. They feel the need for sex, the desires, just like us. Basically, I don't know what scientific study you base you idea that animals only do it for reproduction.

I don't know about physical sides of human and animal bodies. Are animals feeling pleasure when they have sex? I don't know. But I know when their instinct commands them to do sex, they only obey it and after that usually reproduction happens. Also I know roosters do sex several times per day and hens often hatch everyday, and I have never seen sex of cats and sparrows at summer, fall and winter. In my area they do it only at springs. If sex was an enjoyable act for them and if they were as same as humans they must do sex frequently during the year.

Interesting. Now suddenly you admit that you don't know if the animals have a pleasure or not!

 

So why would a chimpanzee use a frog as a sex toy and masturbate? You don't answer that question by saying you don't know, since you earlier clearly stated like you did know that animals do not have sex for pleasure. Make up your mind!!!

 

Are you saying they have a capacity for morality, and they are even completely able to follow it? Wow. Humans are more animals than animals!

I'm talking about instinct. Moral and immoral behaviors belong to mankind who feel bit deference between animals and humans.

You said that animals only do sex for reproduction, which is the only reason for God (supposedly) for clean sex. Sex for pleasure is bad. And you claim that only humans do that. In other words, animals never do unnecessary sex, but only sex for reproduction, which is clean sex. So animals have (according to you) the instincts for moral sex without having to resort to unclean sex. Isn't that amazing? We would be better of living like animals! Then Allah would accept all of us!

 

 

My conclusion is that you don't know enough to be able to claim anything. You can say that God said so and so, or think this or that, or if humans vs animals are this or that. Basically, you have nothing rational or reasonable to say! Maybe you need to get a few science books and start reading before you claim "perfect" and "absolute" knowledge. Because you lack of knowledge really does shine through!

[Taphophilia]

I don't know about physical sides of human and animal bodies. Are animals feeling pleasure when they have sex? I don't know. But I know when their instinct commands them to do sex, they only obey it and after that usually reproduction happens. Also I know roosters do sex several times per day and hens often hatch everyday, and I have never seen sex of cats and sparrows at summer, fall and winter. In my area they do it only at springs. If sex was an enjoyable act for them and if they were as same as humans they must do sex frequently during the year.

 

I'm talking about instinct. Moral and immoral behaviors belong to mankind who feel bit deference between animals and humans.

 

Humans are not the only animals that have sex for pleasure. While most animals only have sex during the females estrus cycle, this is not true for all animals. Chimpanzees, Bonobos and Dolphins have sex for pleasure. Also, ape and monkey societies have social constraints that form a set of behavior that shapes the morality of their societies. Perhaps you should learn about them before you say things that are not true.