dogmatically_challenged Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 "If the shoe fits, wear it." Also, "Methinks thou doth protest too much." TAP, why don't you fill us all in on your great missionary trip to your last Muslim dominated nation? Because you're right. I have NO idea what YOU do. Enlighten us. As for the rest of your brethren, can you deny that hundreds of MILLIONS of Xians fit precisely the profile I described? Can you? (And before you answer, let me remind you that I was once a Xian. I used to preach this very same message to my OWN congregation! I KNOW how shiftless and worldly you are! I despised the "lukewarm Laodecians" that warmed the pews. And my missionary brethren lamented this same song on a weekly basis. But no, go ahead. Tell me how "wrong" I am for painting with such a broad brush.) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I fancy giving them shock treatment as well, regardless of what kind of xer they are. But I will tell you up front Tap does love folks and she actually believes the gospel is good news.... She helped folks over seas. As far as prosylitizin' I have no idea. But she does good works. As far as telling it like it is I will be cold and honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaryn101 Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 TK421, you are correct. And for the most part, you are absolutely dead on-the-mark. Us Christians SHOULD be going out into the world, preaching the good news. But too many of us simply choose to sit at home on our butts and do nothing. It is possible to spread the "Good News" by simply living a Christian public life, and in fact, in America this often proves to be one of the best witnessing techniques. In order to evangelize, it isnt always necessary to learn Swahili and goto Africa so you can preach God to all the AIDS victims... often one can evangelize by simply living a truly Christian life. But so many Christians fail to do EVEN THAT. I would even go so far as to question whether they were truly Christians, but that is besides the point. We hate lukewarm Christians just as much as you do, I assure you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 TK421, you are correct. And for the most part, you are absolutely dead on-the-mark. Us Christians SHOULD be going out into the world, preaching the good news. But too many of us simply choose to sit at home on our butts and do nothing. It is possible to spread the "Good News" by simply living a Christian public life, and in fact, in America this often proves to be one of the best witnessing techniques. In order to evangelize, it isnt always necessary to learn Swahili and goto Africa so you can preach God to all the AIDS victims... often one can evangelize by simply living a truly Christian life. But so many Christians fail to do EVEN THAT. I would even go so far as to question whether they were truly Christians, but that is besides the point. We hate lukewarm Christians just as much as you do, I assure you. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If I knew yall were just doing good works over seas without the prosylitizing I'd donate money for it. But my money wont go to you getting yourself or others killed. Again: Since bribes and threats are something that can really reach the primitive mind many xers go over seas to 3rd and er.. 2nd world countries to spread the "good news".... There may be xers that go just to help without prosylitizin'. I suppose thats possible. But to do both is to encourage people who are desparate to prostitute thier minds and spirits. Cold hard fact: Not all will be converted and families will be torn and sometimes deaths result from xers prosylitizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Freethought is a commendable thing. Religious prosylitizin' is abominable! Exchanging ideas with logic and an open mind is honorable while threats and bribes as the hook is absolutely shameful. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Bump. The only honorable thing for the xer to do is take a razor blade to the bible and cut out the shameful parts. Good for its own sake and not threats and bribes is honorable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 If you can't do Mark 16, you're no more a believer than me. Thank you thankful! I'm gonna make this a T-shirt as xer repellent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaryn101 Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 I'm sorry, but this is not good enough. Most of you believe that unbelievers are going to fry in hell for eternity, no matter how sweet or kind you are, that is what you believe. Your bible tells you what will happen as a sign that you believe in Jesus and it also gives you promises. You pick and choose the easy stuff and then march in here and everywhere telling people that they will BURN IN ETERNAL HELL for not believing in Jesus because the bible says it's so. Pretty easy to do, isn't it? When you believe the whole bible, no, forget it, when you believe what Jesus says to do and then do it; you're a Christian. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The twelve apostles did do exactly those things in Mark 16, even though i may not be able to prove so to your satisfaction. The Holy Spirit can do anything through us. You demand miracles, but my God does not take commands from anyone. That is part of being God. Even if you were to see a miracle right in front of your eyes, you would not beleive it. You would explain it away scientifically. Such are the times that we live in. "Living a good christian life" does not include walking around telling people that they will burn in hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted July 30, 2005 Author Share Posted July 30, 2005 We hate lukewarm Christians just as much as you do, I assure you. Thank you , Aaryn, for the positive confession, but I must correct you. I no longer hate "lukewarm Christians". What I despise is HYPOCRISY. I submit that you ALL recognize how exceedingly dangerous it would be to run off to Indonesia to preach Jesus. Which is why you DON'T. To do so would be a death sentence! Every month, I STILL receive a copy of Voice of the Martyrs(VOM). VOM is filled to the brim with horror stories of NON-Muslims being maimed and killed for the "crime" of being NON-Muslim and being in Muslim territory. I know it. YOU know it. (Dogmatically_Challenged DEFINITELY knows it! You can stop banging the gong now, DC! Sheesh! ) Who in their right minds would GO into such madness? A: A "True Christian" would. Filled with the belief that "God" has called them to fullfill the Great Commission. (I have nothing but respect for the Xian who actually braves such dangers. I STILL don't believe in Christ, but I'll give you your props.) And who WOULDN'T go to preach the gospel? Why, none other than your friend, and my target, the HYPOCRITE. The one who DOESN'T believe the bible, yet has the affrontery to bust MY nuts for not believing!? TAP, D_C, Jay, and Aaryn, I'm not trying to get people to go on a suicide mission. I'm TRYING to point out the ludicrousness of the Xian Hypocrite's position. To the hypocrite I shout, "Don't you DARE preach to ME, what YOU aren't willing to do!" But, if YOU are doing the ENTIRE COUNSEL of "God", then don't get your knickers in a twist. I ain't talking to you. The Hypocrite Xian, however, can hug my left scrotum sack. Clear enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaryn101 Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 I no longer hate "lukewarm Christians". What I despise is HYPOCRISY. TAP, D_C, Jay, and Aaryn, I'm not trying to get people to go on a suicide mission. I'm TRYING to point out the ludicrousness of the Xian Hypocrite's position. To the hypocrite I shout, "Don't you DARE preach to ME, what YOU aren't willing to do!" <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Lukewarm Christians and Hypocrisy are synonymous. You seem to think that in order to preach the "Good news" it is necessary to go into other countries. I would suggest that America is in just as much need of evangelism as other countries. It IS possible to be a witness in your home country. Jesus himself hated hypocrites. Witness the whole Jesus-and-the-tax-collectors-in-the-temple story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 TAP, D_C, Jay, and Aaryn, I'm not trying to get people to go on a suicide mission. I'm TRYING to point out the ludicrousness of the Xian Hypocrite's position. As you should. I was not bustin you down. I knew they knew what you were talkning bout. Also I just wanted to let you know what kind of xer Tap is before you have anymore interactions with her. I vehemenentaly am against missionaries who prosylitize. It does damage and can get folks killed, but I realize Tap does love folks. Heck, there are xers that genuinely love folks. I will still be a cold hearted bastard with them in telling it like it is though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted July 30, 2005 Author Share Posted July 30, 2005 The twelve apostles did do exactly those things in Mark 16, even though i may not be able to prove so to your satisfaction. The Holy Spirit can do anything through us. You demand miracles, but my God does not take commands from anyone. That is part of being God. Even if you were to see a miracle right in front of your eyes, you would not beleive it. You would explain it away scientifically. Such are the times that we live in. "Living a good christian life" does not include walking around telling people that they will burn in hell. "...but my God does not take commands from anyone." Then what the hell is the point of PRAYER and ASKING?!?!? "That's the part of being God." BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! You really should take this act on the road! You're a funny guy! (IF guy you are. I'm assuming facts not in evidence. Sorry, if I'm in error.) Keep 'em coming, Aaryn! The folks around here enjoy good stand up comedy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaryn101 Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 "...but my God does not take commands from anyone." Then what the hell is the point of PRAYER and ASKING?!?!? "That's the part of being God." BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! You really should take this act on the road! You're a funny guy! (IF guy you are. I'm assuming facts not in evidence. Sorry, if I'm in error.) Keep 'em coming, Aaryn! The folks around here enjoy good stand up comedy! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The point is just that. COMMANDS AND ASKING are two different things. A command implies that that person/being MUST do the command, a request is just that: a simple question that is not always answered to the questioner's satisfaction. Why do you think i came back here? Ive been absent from these forums for a long time, and i came back b/c you guys either give me some good things to chew on, or you just get pissed and make me roll on the floor laughing. YOU my friend, are the stand-up comedian. And quite frankly, you arent that good at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Well, that is hilarious since the Bible isn't available in the language of 10% of the world's entire population (7 billion) nor is there enough books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaryn101 Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Jesus isn't asking he's telling here, it's "his" will for believers to do this.... Mark 16 17 And these signs will accompany those who BELIEVE: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well." <{POST_SNAPBACK}> First off, i wasnt replying to you. I was replying to TK. God can CHOOSE to do those things through those who believe, and that is the point. Anyone with faith "the size of a mustard seed" can do these things, but not by his own power, it is God who works through him. In that section of Mark, Jesus was rebuking the disciples for their lack of faith. He was telling them what was POSSIBLE, if they just had faith. The text does NOT state that every single Christian will go and heal the sick, etc... Jesus is saying that if we just have faith, then the Holy Spirit can do great things through us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted July 30, 2005 Author Share Posted July 30, 2005 Lukewarm Christians and Hypocrisy are synonymous. You seem to think that in order to preach the "Good news" it is necessary to go into other countries. I would suggest that America is in just as much need of evangelism as other countries. It IS possible to be a witness in your home country. AMERICA in need of evangelism? Humph! Then the latest demographic numbers MUST be wrong! Because the LAST time I checked the American people claimed to be PREDOMINANTLY Christian. Around 75% I believe was the tally. (Who has those figures handy? I know someone posted them on a thread here at one time recently.) Where I live, (small town Montana) there must be 10 times as many churches here as there are gas stations. EVERY denomination is represented at LEAST thrice. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a church building. I am surrounded by EIGHT within a three-minute walk from my home. To my knowledge, I'm the only avowed atheist where I live. So why and WHO needs to hear? Certainly not us atheists, agnostics and what not? We know the message too, and have rejected it. So, why waste time here? Hell, your "leading Christian" is the frickin' PRESIDENT of the USA! How much MORE press do you guys need? No. I BELIEVE your job is done here. Next excuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Aaryn101 did you know this: Well, that is hilarious since the Bible isn't available in the language of 10% of the world's entire population (7 billion) nor is there enough books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaryn101 Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 John 1412 I tell you the truth,ANYONE who has faith in me WILL DO WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. Pretty clear to me, the COMMAND.... DO WHAT I'VE DONE... The "request" ASK ANYTHING. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ask anything IN MY NAME. Meaning that if the purpose of our request is to glorify God, then Jesus will do what we ask. If the purpose of our request is to glorify ourself in some way, or to keep us from looking silly, then our request will not be granted. God answers all requests in his own time, as he is not constrained by our limits. Thus God may not answer IMMEDIATELY. Luke 11:29-36 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV) 29As the crowds increased, Jesus said, "This is a wicked generation. It asks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah. For as Jonah was a sign to the Ninevites, so also will the Son of Man be to this generation. The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with the men of this generation and condemn them; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon's wisdom, and now one greater than Solomon is here. The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now one greater than Jonah is here." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted July 30, 2005 Author Share Posted July 30, 2005 YOU my friend, are the stand-up comedian. And quite frankly, you arent that good at it. I'm crushed. Truly I am. I suppose I'll stick to my day job of bashing Xians for sport. Also, I ain't your friend, dickweed. And if this is a further "proof" of a Xian, "turning the other cheek", then you may as well call it a night. Cause I've already won. Hypocrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaryn101 Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 I'm crushed. Truly I am. I suppose I'll stick to my day job of bashing Xians for sport. Also, I ain't your friend, dickweed. And if this is a further "proof" of a Xian, "turning the other cheek", then you may as well call it a night. Cause I've already won. Hypocrite. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That wasnt an insult.... It was the frank truth, call it advice to leave your day job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Aaryn101, why aren't you addressing my point? It's crucial to Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaryn101 Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Aaryn101 did you know this: Well, that is hilarious since the Bible isn't available in the language of 10% of the world's entire population (7 billion) nor is there enough books. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> To be frank with you i do not KNOW what will happen to those who havent at least heard the gospel. It is because we KNOW that they will not be saved that missionaries work as frantically as they do. However, it is those who have heard the Truth and reject it that will receive the FULL cup of God's wrath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 To be frank with you i do not KNOW what will happen to those who havent at least heard the gospel. It is because we KNOW that they will not be saved that missionaries work as frantically as they do. I know! Here are verses: John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. You can do all the "good" works you want, and it will not get you into heaven unless you believe in Jesus. However, it is those who have heard the Truth and reject it that will receive the FULL cup of God's wrath. What is your justification? Are you admitting God is a sadist? If not, explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 I've just finished reading this entire thread. Kudos to TK421 for starting it. I big hug and a gift certificate for two at a restaurant of her choice for she and her husband goes to Thankful for really stayin' on top of the "meat" of the matter. <<just kidding about the gift certificate thingy>> <<I would, if I could >> And a great big round of applause to Aaryn for his tap-dancing skills. Aaryn, I'm way too lazy to look up the verses, but most all of what you've said here can easily be refuted biblically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Yep, when we discuss Hell and Heaven, Christians skirt the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted July 30, 2005 Author Share Posted July 30, 2005 To be frank with you i do not KNOW what will happen to those who havent at least heard the gospel. It is because we KNOW that they will not be saved that missionaries work as frantically as they do. However, it is those who have heard the Truth and reject it that will receive the FULL cup of God's wrath. Huh? FIRST, you claim ignorance for the fate of those who don't hear the gospel. But later on, you claim that you DO KNOW what will happen to those who DO hear and reject. Eternal torment. (And you pronounce doom on us with such detached compassion. Just like you're reading the weather report. Excuse me, for not believing you give a damn about us.) SO, by extrapolation and deductive reasoning, we can presume that you DO "know" that those who DON'T hear and reject, will be saved. Unless, you think your God is unfair and will punish people whom YOU never reached? Also, if your missionaries "work frantically" as you say, MAYBE it's because people like YOU are farting around arguing with apostates like ME, instead of GOING AND PREACHING THE GOSPEL to those millions who have NEVER heard! (See how I keep bringing us BACK on topic?) You don't NEED bibles in their languages! THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE THE GIFT OF TONGUES! Has not the "Lord" given you all that you require? (Do you feel the walls closing in around you yet? You will if you remain long enough.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted July 30, 2005 Author Share Posted July 30, 2005 I've just finished reading this entire thread. Kudos to TK421 for starting it. Thank YOU, Fwee! Coming from a "veteran" of the wars here, that is indeed a compliment! [Now that the mutual admiration society has concluded..."Release the hounds!"] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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