Jay Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 You don't believe in the trinity? You mean the Egyptian, or are you talkin Father, Son, and Holy Ghost? Just tryin to pin you down. JW? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> hehe...no, not JW, but I am a binitarian. Which, of course, is just as unprovable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 hehe...no, not JW, but I am a binitarian. Which, of course, is just as unprovable! Just as I suspected! Jay, you're wasting our time here. According to mainstream Xian doctrine, YOU are no more a True Christian than I am! You're like Marcion of old--a "heretic"! You pick and choose what YOU want to consider "right doctrine", etc, thinking that YOU have the inside track to truth that everyone else has missed these past 2,000 years. You're just ANOTHER denominational misfit adding to the already confused Christian landscape. If anyone DID agree with YOU, they'd simply find themselves in constant dispute with the 40,000 OTHER snapperhead denominations that vie for the Truth mantle! But does this necessarily make you "wrong"? Who the fuck can say?!? We're talking about a MYTHOLOGY here! It's like saying who's right or wrong as regards the Chocolate "goddess" we've chosen to create and worship in another thread. It's a nonsense question for a nonsense situation. This is classic! Apostates and a "heretic" debating over the "Truth" of Xianity! St. Augustine must be spinning in his grave about now! Jay, why don't you go hash out your beliefs with your "brethren". And when you all get that squared away, THEN you can return with some sort of legitimacy and preach to us "the Truth". If you can convince Catholics, Baptists, Protestants, etc, etc. that YOUR view of the "Truth" is correct, THEN I'll listen to you. But somehow, I don't think THAT will ever happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerise Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Just playing devil's advocate here...but your entire physical existence could really be an elaborate dream. We have an agreed upon "objective reality" but none of us know how truly objective it is. We just know in the environment we find ourselves in, certain rules apply. Technically there might not be ANY physical life. Techincally this could all be some kindof dream of a disembodied consciousness blah blah blah. We perceive that physical life exists. Perhaps it does, perhaps it doesn't. Just saying. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That is exactly the kind of waffling that leads to people gibbering in corners about purple fairies and how triangles are out to get them. Seriously Zoe, regardless of the possibility that this is all someone else's elaborate dream, such a condition would change either absolutely nothing about the way we live our lives, or we would suddenly cease to lead our lives. If you were to suddenly find out that NOTHING is true, either you would have to continue to believe in reality (which would no longer be reality) or you would curl up in a corner and die because nothing is real. Technically, whether we are physical or not does not matter. Technically, we either continue to be physical to ourselves and to the world around us or we die. For me, all these little "what if this is all a dream" scenarios are cute to bring up at parties when you are stoned and want to freak people out, but not at all useful in the context of actual thought. Such speculation only paralyzes thought. Leads to things like: This isn't real, thoughts aren't real, paralyzed. Curl up and die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerise Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 The thing is... I didn't make any claims about Zeus, Allah, or any other beings. Cerise made an affirmative statement that there is nothing other than what we see. If I would have made such a claim, stated in such a matter-of-fact manner, you all would be insisting that I prove it. I am asking the same of her that most of you would ask of me. For the record, I to not believe in the trinity... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Jay, I made a negative statement. Not an affirmative statement. There is nothing more then the physical realm. You are the one wishing to make the affirmative statement of there being "something more" then the physcial. No one here would ask you to prove a negative. We would, however, ask you to prove a positive statement. So go ahead. Prove that there is "something more". But first you will have to define what exactly that "something more" is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 I'm quite sure he cant prove Allah exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 hehe...no, not JW, but I am a binitarian. Which, of course, is just as unprovable! Yeah, I believe in binaries too: zero and one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 The thing is... I didn't make any claims about Zeus, Allah, or any other beings. Cerise made an affirmative statement that there is nothing other than what we see. If I would have made such a claim, stated in such a matter-of-fact manner, you all would be insisting that I prove it. I am asking the same of her that most of you would ask of me. For the record, I to not believe in the trinity... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If there is not any kind of evidence of a being/thing then there is not any kind of awareness of a being/thing. In which case, what is incoherently being described (said being/thing that is not evident), does not exist to humans. We must be aware of it first for it to exist for humans. This is why it is logical to say that a being/thing which is unsupported by any evidence does not exist, because it is logical to only believe in things which are supported by evidence. You are not logicaly entitled to your bible god, afterlife, pixies, leprechauns, unicorns, or godman. These of which I speak is the whole reason for the burdon of proof being on the ones who make claims on the EXISTENCE of a being or thing. Are we to plan our lives on every claim ever made that have ZERO evidences for them? We will soon run into contradictions that will paralyze us in doing or planning anything if we did that. To devote our lives to things that are evident and to reject things that have ZERO evidence we will not run into such a problem. That is precisley why..... THE BURDON OF PROOF IS ON YOU ONLY. If you had a heart for understanding this would not be such a bitter pill for you to swallow. Is god possible? Yes. Claims which have no evidence for them are still possible, but we are not logicaly obliged to refrain from saying it does not exist, because without evidence a being or thing does not exist to humans. We can only reason on what is evident and not on what is merely possible if the goal for such reasonings is for some kind of application in the world in which WE exist. Your god has no place yet in our world until it becomes coherent to us. Cut and dry. If you were to give me specific reasons why you believe in bible god I could show you that you in fact never did honestly try to narrow things down in the direction of your god and godman being evident. Probability trumps possiblity if we want understanding. (do you like my temporary avatar? Sorry for being a horses ass earlier) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burry The Rag Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Hey Mythra, Doubt if you'll find a large christian contingency amongst neuroscientists. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I can't speak for everyone, but for what it's worth my wife is one. She's been lead author on published research several times. Peace! BtR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 Hey Mythra, I can't speak for everyone, but for what it's worth my wife is one. She's been lead author on published research several times. Peace! BtR <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well then if she is a believer in a soul, she is obviously a sufferer of cognative dissonence, which of coarse is very human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Jay, why don't you go hash out your beliefs with your "brethren". And when you all get that squared away, THEN you can return with some sort of legitimacy and preach to us "the Truth". If you can convince Catholics, Baptists, Protestants, etc, etc. that YOUR view of the "Truth" is correct, THEN I'll listen to you. But somehow, I don't think THAT will ever happen. It hasn't yet. But hey, I never claimed to be a fundy, orthodox, or even a mainstream Christian. I am what I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 BURDON And it is a burden I gladly bear. However, I do believe that, when someone makes an affirmative statement like, "There is nothing other than the physical that exists", one would have some reasons for saying such, and that those reasons could be examined for veracity. Of course, I know that such a statement can not really be backed up, and I will proceed with my argument when I get some time to lay it out, which will not be today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 edited due to user stupidity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Ummm...I'm confused, Jay. I thought you were done with us. I read your little "good-bye heathens" post, so I just figured we'd seen the last of you. Going or staying, bud? What's it gonna be? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What goodbye heathens post? I never posted any such thing. Could you point me to what you are talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 What goodbye heathens post? I never posted any such thing. Could you point me to what you are talking about? Ooop! My bad! I am getting my names mixed up this evening. Disregard that last missive! So sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 TK is suffering the severe multiple topic posting syndrome (SMTPPS), which is highly infectious and contagious. So please be aware... Wear gloves while typing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 TK is suffering the severe multiple topic posting syndrome (SMTPPS), which is highly infectious and contagious. So please be aware... Wear gloves while typing! THAT'S IT! I can't take this abuse anymore! I quit! Aww, screw it. I'll just go to bed instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 I'm quite sure he cant prove Allah exists. Or the Invisible Purple Unicorn, Santa Claus, pixies, dwarves, my fairy godmother, Athena, Hera, Isis, Diana, Demeter, Venus, Aphrodite, the Chocolate Goddess, etc... (hey, why limit god to male deities, just because the Christian god is male?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 And it is a burden I gladly bear. However, I do believe that, when someone makes an affirmative statement like, "There is nothing other than the physical that exists", one would have some reasons for saying such, and that those reasons could be examined for veracity. Of course, I know that such a statement can not really be backed up, and I will proceed with my argument when I get some time to lay it out, which will not be today. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What is there other than the physical? Please stay clear of argument from ignorance. If you can't do that then I will read but will not give it a reply because I have no respect for pure speculation. Why don't you drop bible god and become a deist? It would be easier for you to defend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Goddess, etc... (hey, why limit god to male deities, just because the Christian god is male?)<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, now that's just silly. Enough of this foolishness. Everyone knows if your god isn't male and has a son, he can't be the real god. (breaks out in a spontaneous guffaw) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Why don't we get together and organize a cult of Cat Worship? Cats I've known have been clearly superior to me and most other higher primates. Plus it'd be a great tax dodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythra Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 HEY! That's not a bad idea.. I nominate Zoe to be High Priestess and MadameM to be inspired to write us some scriptures. The Worldwide Church of the Felininity. I LIKE IT. PM me with the tax exempt number. I need to write some shit off. Ooh. I just thought of something. We gotta dump choco-god in order to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 What is there other than the physical? That is what I am going to discuss in the case I will make for the existence of God that does not include any logical fallacies...stay tuned...but be patient...work got awfully busy this week, and I own the place... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 You prove one god you prove the existance of all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quicksand Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 That is what I am going to discuss in the case I will make for the existence of God that does not include any logical fallacies...stay tuned...but be patient...work got awfully busy this week, and I own the place... Impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatically_challenged Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 That is what I am going to discuss in the case I will make for the existence of God that does not include any logical fallacies...stay tuned...but be patient...work got awfully busy this week, and I own the place... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> OK, now I'm curious. I hate it the few times xers actual suck me in. But to defend bible god specifically without logical fallacies is indeed impossible. I swear, it seems heretics like you are crawling out of the woodworks. Just teasing. hehe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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